asked the Minister for Education the number of day girls and day boy students currently in Sallynoggin technical school; the full reasons for his Department's decision to inform Dún Laoghaire Vocational Education Committee that the enrolment and teaching of any further day girl pupils in this school should now cease; and if he will state the total expenditure to date in the construction, fitting and equipment of this technical school.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Sallynoggin (Dublin) Vocational School.
115.
The present enrolment of day pupils in Sallynoggin Vocational School is 122 boys and 99 girls.
With the growth of this area, there will be need for two post-primary schools. On the advice of the Dublin Advisory Council, I have decided that one school should cater for all the boys and that the other school should cater for all the girls.
The total expenditure to date on construction, fitting and equipment of the vocational school is £193,600.
May I ask the Minister, assuring him that I have no objection to the extension of truly comprehensive educational facilities to this area, if he is aware of the serious concern felt by many parents locally, by many members of the Vocational Educational Committee and by the vocational teachers who, in due course, will be declared redundant in this school because of the fact that such a decision should have been taken by his Department? Does he accept that some of the senior officers of his own Department have grave misgivings about the manner in which this decision was taken? Can he say if this technical school costing £195,000, in which there are expensively and highly equipped classrooms for women students, including kitchens and so on, will now be used solely for evening classes and that girls will be debarred from it in future? In other words there will be a total division on a sex basis in the area.
Firstly, I would not agree at all that there can be any question of redundancy. The Deputy, of course, is well aware of the fact that the population in that area is rising very rapidly.
Not to the extent of 800.
It certainly is. The Deputy knows that the second school would not be built for some time. The figures I have here of national school enrolment in February, 1969, are: in sixth class, 1,125, in fifth class, 1,644 and first class, 2,065.
For what area? The Borough of Dún Laoghaire?
Yes.
The Minister told me last week that the catchment area for this school was the Sallynoggin, Belview Road and Watson Estate area. Is the Minister saying that the girls' school in Sallynoggin, the vocational school, the girls' section of the Dún Laoghaire technical school and the girls' section of the Blackrock technical school must close?
I am certainly not suggesting anything of the kind. I gave those figures to show the increase that is taking place in the whole area. I would not suggest that in a few years time, because there are 2,065 children in first class, those 2,065 would go to these particular schools. I am pointing out that the population is increasing very rapidly in that area. I am informed that the site on which the vocational school is at present was not suitable for expansion and, therefore, there was no option but to build a second school. Basically, as the Deputy is aware, we are concerned in this area with having comprehensive education available to both boys and girls in these two schools. I am sure the Deputy will agree that is a step forward.
Last year, when this matter was raised in the Dáil, the Minister's predecessor arranged a conference with all the interested parties and sent out some representatives from his Department. It is correct to say that more than Sallynoggin is involved in this. There are some religious orders and there is also the question of a school in Dean's Grange. Perhaps the Minister would convene a meeting so that all of this could be considered before any final decision is taken.
This matter was proceeded with on the advice of the Dublin Advisory Council. They held a very considerable number of meetings before they came to a decision on what should be done. They finally decided on having this particular arrangement: for the boys to go to the technical school and get comprehensive education there, for the girls to go to the new school which would be built in the area, and also have adult education classes for both sexes in the technical school.
If the parents in the Sallynoggin area wish to send their daughters to a local technical school, as and from next September, by virtue of the Minister's directive to the Vocational Education Committee's chief executive officer, they are now to be expressly precluded from doing so. They may send their children to another school which is being built nearby. I assure the Minister that I am in no way opposed to truly comprehensive educational developments which are needed in the area. In view of the tremendous conflict that exists between the chief executive officer of the Vocational Education Committee and the officers of his Department on this matter, would the Minister try to resolve the impasse which has developed without creating a difficult situation? I do not want to appear to be taking sides unduly but, at the same time, it seems quite extraordinary in relation to a vocational school with 92 girls and 120 boys that as from next September no more girls can be recruited to that school because a school is being built nearby. That is not rationalisation.
Surely the Deputy is not suggesting that the parents in this area are demanding that their children should be sent to a vocational school when, in fact, they will have comprehensive education available to them in the new school? I could not imagine this happening and, in fact, to be quite frank about it, I am told the main pressure came from parents who wanted a secondary school in that area.
A boys' and girls' secondary school. Deputy Cosgrave will confirm that.
Is it not much better that we should have comprehensive education available to both boys and girls in these two schools?
But there is the conflict.
Deputy Desmond has said there is an impasse between the chief executive officer of the Vocational Committee and the Department. May I ask the Minister, on a point of fact, whether he is not a member of the advisory council that took this decision and whether it is not the case that he did not dissent from that decision?
I think that originally he did not dissent and later on he did make some objection. I do not want to be held absolutely on that because I am not quite certain.
On another tack, may there not be parents who prefer co-education and who will now have to take their children out of what they may regard as a healthy co-educational environment and put them into a segregated environment? Would the Minister not agree that if parents want to send their girls to the vocational school they should be allowed to do so?
The interesting thing is that we have not got co-education in this vocational school.
There is co-education.
We had not got co-education. What we had was boys and girls attending separate classes in the vocational school and this is not co-education in the sense which I am sure Deputy FitzGerald has in mind.
A subtle distinction.
Anything but subtle.
The Minister is aware that this was a very well equipped school.
Quesion No. 116.