I move that the Bill be recommitted for the purpose of considering amendments.
Agreed.
Bill considered in Committee.
NEW SECTION.
Gaming and Lotteries (Amendment) Bill, 1969: Recommittal, Report and Final Stages.
I move amendment No. 1:
In page 2, before section 1, to insert the following new section:
"Section 10 of the Gaming and Lotteries Act, 1956, is hereby repealed."
Amendment No. 2 is related and amendment No. 3 is consequential. Perhaps they can be discussed together.
Deputies will remember that on the Committee Stage I promised to consider a suggestion put forward by some Deputies, including Deputy Fitzpatrick and Deputy Pattison, that we should go a little bit farther than the present Bill and permit the operation of slot machines which deliver prizes out of the front direct to the winning operator. I asked for time to have this matter considered and, in particular, to consult the Garda Síochána. This has since been done.
By providing for the deletion of section 10 of the Gaming and Lotteries Act, 1956, the amendment seeks, in effect, to remove the absolute prohibition at present imposed on the operation of slot machines which, when successfully operated, deliver money prizes out of the front or at the back. I said on the last occasion, and I repeat now, that the more I look into it the more I am satisfied that the cleanest legal job to do here to meet the wishes of the House would be to repeal section 10.
Other suggestions were made as to different forms of amendment to the section to achieve the same effect. Having given the matter further consideration. I am reinforced in my original view that the most effective and best way of dealing with this matter is the complete repeal of section 10.
The adoption of the amendment would not mean that anybody would be free to install these machines in his premises for operation by members of the public. The use of the machines would continue to be subject to the general restrictions on gaming continued in the 1956 Act. The effect of these restrictions is that, subject to certain exceptions, gaming may be carried out in an area only where the local authority formally have passed a resolution adopting the relevant provisions of the 1956 Act and then only in amusement halls and funfairs licensed for the purpose on the authority of the district court. The exceptions to that rule are circuses, travelling shows and carnivals and other like events but, in these circumstances, gaming is permitted only for limited periods— not more than ten days at a time in any one place in the case of circuses and travelling shows and not more than a month in the case of carnivals, and so forth. Promoters of carnivals must derive no personal gain from these operations. In all cases, certain conditions must be observed, the main ones being that the maximum stake is sixpence, the maximum prize money 10s and that no person under 16 years of age shall be allowed to play.
If the amendments I have tabled— the one I have moved and the consequential amendments—are acceptable to the House it will mean that the complaints voiced here will disappear, that is, the machines can pay out direct subject to the limits as to the stakes and the prize money which are already in the law.
Amendment agreed to.
Section 1 deleted.
SECTION 2.
I move amendment No. 2:
In subsection (1), page 2, line 21, to delete "(Amendment)".
Amendment agreed to.
Section, as amended, agreed to.
TITLE
I move amendment No. 3:
In page 2, lines 6 to 11, to delete all words after "TO" in line 6 and to substitute the following:
"REPEAL SECTION 10 OF THE GAMING AND LOTTERIES ACT, 1956".
This deals with the Long Title which has to be changed consequential on the acceptance of these other amendments.
Amendment agreed to.
Title, as amended, agreed to.
In accordance with Standing Order No. 96 (3), I have to report specially to the Dáil that the Committee have amended the Title of the Bill to read as follows: "Bill entitled an Act to repeal section 10 of the Gaming and Lotteries Act, 1956".
Bill reported with amendments and received for final consideration.
Question proposed: "That the Bill do now pass".
Having accepted these amendments, it is my duty to do some thinking aloud for the benefit of some of those concerned with this business in this city. I have received some complaints about some premises that are allowed to be used or are alleged to be allowed to be used for undesirable purposes and that, in some instances, people under age are allowed to take part in gaming in some of these premises. If there is any substance in these complaints, they will be fully investigated by me and my Department and the law will be enforced rigidly.
If I may express a personal view, as I have done already in this House, in principle I think these amusement halls are very desirable in seaside places, but I have certain reservations about their being allowed in the centre of a city like this. In fact, I think the authors of the 1956 Act had that in mind when it was passed and did not contemplate that in relation to some of those areas, the Act would be adopted by the local authority.
At all events, since they are there, I want to give fair notice that if those who enjoy licences under the law as it stands do not do their duty and rigidly enforce proper control of these premises, they can expect opposition from the Garda to the renewal of their licences and, indeed, they can expect prosecution for there will be full enforcement of the law as laid down by the Oireachtas in this connection.
Would the Minister consider the Probation Act? The reason I ask that is—I agree with the Minister that it is very wrong for a person under age to be there—that there are occasions when it is very hard to know a person's age. Under the licensing law on the first occasion you get the benefit of the Probation Act and the second time the licence is withdrawn. A youth could come in and you could take him to be 26 years when, in fact, he was 15 years, and you could take a person of 15 years to be 12 years. It is very hard to know what age they are.
There may be some difficulties as the Deputy says but I mentioned undesirable people frequenting some of these places as well as people under age. I am now giving due notice that they can expect the full rigours of the law if they do not appreciate the privileges under the licensing system under the law, and they can expect their licences to be strenuously opposed if there is any ground for complaints of this kind.
While appreciating the Minister's statement and accepting the comments he has made in good faith, I suggest that it might be helpful to us if the Minister would be more explicit about what he means by "undesirable purposes". Is this a question of persons under age being in such premises? Is it a question of drug trafficking? Is it a question of prostitution? Could the Minister be more helpful about the allegations made that some premises in the major urban areas have been used for such purposes? I do not want to badger the Minister unduly but it might be more helpful if he were more specific.
There is a word with which the House is familiar—the word "loitering". I think that is sufficient to indicate what I have in mind from complaints I have received.
(Cavan): I understand we are in committee.
No. The question is that the Bill be now passed. There should be no debate at this stage. The Deputy may ask a question.
(Cavan): I just want to make a few remarks about what is in the Bill. I am sorry I was not here——
The Deputy appreciates that the Minister has concluded on the Bill. The Deputy may ask a question.
(Cavan): I understand that the Minister has accepted a suggestion made on Report Stage that his proposed amendment could be enlarged and that he has now repealed section 10 of the original 1956 Act which, in fact, restricted the operations of the machines.
That is so.
(Cavan): I want to tell the Minister that I am in agreement with that. I also understand since I came into the House that the Minister has stated it is his intention to see to it that the Act, as now amended, will be strictly enforced and abuses eliminated. I am sure the House thoroughly agrees with that and I am sure, indeed, that all legitimate operators of these machines will also welcome that assurance from the Minister.
Question put and agreed to.