andDr. Browne asked the Minister for Defence what branches of the Garda and Defence Forces, if any, have been given training in the use of CS gas.
61.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - CS Gas.
60.
andDr. Browne asked the Minister for Defence if he will give details of the amount of money spent by the Government on CS gas and in the purchasing of firing equipment in each of the last three years.
62.
andDr. Browne asked the Minister for Defence if he will state the strength of the CS gas being stockpiled by the Government; and whether or not it is in grenade or cartridge form.
63.
andDr. Browne asked the Minister for Defence if he will state in whose control the present stockpile of CS gas, bought by the Government, is; and if he will outline the instructions under which this gas may be used.
64.
andDr. Browne asked the Minister for Defence if he will give details of the purchases of CS gas made by this country in each of the last three years; how much of this gas is now stockpiled; how much it is proposed to buy in the current year; and if he will outline the reasons which gave rise to the decision to purchase CS gas from Britain.
65.
asked the Minister for Defence what was the value of CS tear gas purchased by this country in 1966, 1967, 1968 and 1969.
66.
asked the Minister for Defence whether the Army has acquired or has under its control stocks of and weapons for using CS gas; if so, the quantities thereof and the dates of purchase, the possible uses to which it is proposed to put the gas and equipment; the steps taken to prevent inconvenience or harm to innocent persons by its use; and the ranks of the persons on whom will lie the responsibility of deciding when, in what circumstances and whether or not the gas will be used.
67.
andMr. G. Lynch asked the Minister for Defence whether his permission was sought by the Army authorities for the acquisition of CS gas; and, if so, the dates on which such permission was sought and granted.
68.
asked the Minister for Defence whether the Minister for Health was consulted prior to the ordering of CS gas; and whether his Department are in possession of the latest findings relative to the noxious content of the gas.
69.
asked the Minister for Defence if he can outline the reasons for the reported importation of CS gas; and whether further orders have been made.
70.
asked the Minister for Defence whether his Department had any consultations with the Department of Justice leading to the ordering of CS gas.
71.
asked the Minister for Defence whether any consultation with the Stormont administration on the subject of CS gas and its effectiveness took place prior to placing orders.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 60 to 71, inclusive, together. Purchases of lachrymatory grenades, including CS smoke grenades, have been made from time to time over many years for military purposes. This equipment is, of course, held under military control and, like other defensive equipments, was purchased under the authority of the Minister for Defence. I am not prepared to give information regarding quantities held, dates of purchase, sources of supply, cost, etc. of any particular item of defensive equipment. It is not possible to anticipate the circumstances in which such equipment might be used.
Military personnel trained in the use of weapons do not require special training in the use of CS smoke grenades.
The Departments of Justice and Health were not consulted. My Department are in possession of certain published reports dealing with the effects of CS smoke.
There was no consultation with the Six County Government on any aspect of CS smoke.
It will be appreciated that I am not in a position to reply in respect of the Garda Síochána.
Is the Minister aware that there have been press reports suggesting that this country has been one of the biggest purchasers of CS gas? The Minister refers to it as smoke, a term first used by the Stormont authorities. In fact, it is gas. There have been reports published suggesting that we are the largest purchasers of this gas. The Minister owes it to us to state that this cannot be regarded as any kind of security equipment. Would the Minister, therefore, give us some information about the amount purchased, the reasons why, whether there have been any increased purchases in the past year, what they were, and whether those increased purchases have anything to do with internal or external developments?
I am not in a position to give any information as regards the quantities purchased and so on, in relation to this particular matter or, indeed, in relation to any item of defensive equipment.
Would the Minister allay public anxiety by answering two questions? Is it intended to use this noxious gas against civilians or against enemies invading the State? Having regard to the fact that all right thinking people are appalled at the possibility of the use of this relatively untested and potentially injurious gas against citizens of the State, would the Minister give a categorical assurance that under no circumstances will the gas be used until it is established beyond all medical doubt that it will cause no long-term injurious effects to human beings and that innocent persons will in no way be affected by its use?
The acquisition of those smoke grenades was regarded as essential military equipment. My Department are in possession of full published reports dealing with the effects of CS smoke and we are quite satisfied that it is an essential piece of military equipment.
Will the Minister put those reports in the Library so that the public may be adequately informed? The Minister is probably no doubt aware that recent reports have indicated that long-term effects, including serious chest complaints and serious skin irritations, can develop even years after such people have come in contact with the gas. There are also indications that serious nerve complaints can develop. Having regard to the fact that those investigations are still proceeding in the United States and elsewhere, would the Minister not now give a categorical assurance that until all those doubts are removed this appalling, noxious gas will not be used under any circumstances in this island?
Those considerations have already been taken into account and the decision to purchase the smoke grenades is regarded as legitimate and appropriate.
(Interruptions.)
Does the Minister envisage any riots this year? The Minister must be aware that this gas was used in the north.
You might as easily have asked me what kind of guns we have or what bullets they are capable of firing.
There are enough answering that.
The Minister stated that a decision had been taken to purchase CS gas. I can assure the Minister that it is not smoke as he so obnoxiously describes it. When was this decision taken? Is the Minister aware that the Westminister Government had no hesitation whatsover in revealing the purchases by the so-called Northern Ireland security forces and the specific quantity of gas held by those authorities in Northern Ireland? Does he not in that context regard his answer and his refusal to state in public the quantity of such gas purchased as quite disgraceful? Could I ask for a categorical assurance from the Minister that the gas will not be used on an anti-civilian basis in this country?
Will the Minister place the reports he referred to in the Dáil Library?
In reply to Deputy Desmond, in the first instance there is nothing new in the acquisition of those smoke grenades.
We want to know when was the decision taken to buy this gas?
They want it for the meeting next Monday.
The Minister must be permitted to answer the questions he is being asked.
Purchases of those smoke grenades have been made from time to time over a number of years.
When was the last one?
I am not prepared to say.
Will the Minister agree to place the reports which he has in his possession concerning the effects of this gas in the Dáil Library to allay public concern?
That question has already been asked.
It has not been answered.
Did I understand the Minister to say that no particular training was needed in the handling of this gas? When this gas was used in Derry one of the conclusions reached in the investigation which followed was that it had been used indiscriminately by police and that it should not be indiscriminately used. Therefore, should there not be some training in the handling of the gas and some appreciation of its effects?
We have complete confidence in our military personnel and we are satisfied that there will not be any indiscriminate use of any weapon.
Why does the Minister refuse to make these reports available in the Library?
Question No. 72.
This matter will be raised again and again on the Adjournment.
(Interruptions.)
In view of the Minister's unsatisfactory reply, I propose to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
The Deputy is aware that, under Standing Orders, notice of this matter should have been given before 3.30 p.m. on a Thursday.
I shall raise it on the Adjournment on Tuesday.