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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 30 Jul 1970

Vol. 248 No. 15

Adjournment (Summer Recess): Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
Go rachaidh an Dáil, nuair a éireoidh sí an 30 Iúil, 1970, ar athló go dtí an 28 Deireadh Fómhair, 1970.
That the Dáil, at its rising on the 30th July, 1970, shall adjourn until the 28th October, 1970.
—(The Taoiseach.)

I do not think at this stage we can rule out the possibility of an autumn Budget. Reading between the lines of the Taoiseach's speech and assuming that he is still Taoiseach and that the present Cabinet still holds power, I think we cannot avoid an autumn Budget. The hard line on incomes expansion which the Taoiseach marked and which was pretty clear in his speech at the beginning of the debate was followed up by the Tánaiste, his acolyte on the incomes problem, and I have no doubt that all this points to a hard autumn budget.

The Government have succeeded— how I do not know; the people will have to judge this for themselves—quite apart from their political problems of their own making in relation to their treatment of the north and their policy on unity, in managing things so that the economy has, in fact, stopped growing. No further growth expansion this year is predicted and, at the same time, we have a very bad inflationary position in which prices are going ever upwards with wages following not far behind. This is a situation which in other countries has been met by devaluation of the £. Earlier this year I asked the Minister for Finance if devaluation was contemplated because it required no gift of prophecy early in the year to see the bad economic situation in the offing. The newly appointed Minister for Finance, Deputy Colley, proudly replied that there would be no devaluation of the £ as long as he was Minister for Finance. Some people may say that it is unlikely but all I can say is that other countries in a similar situation have been forced to take this particularly drastic step. It is a measure which on the performance of our economy at this time would appear to be one that could be considered here. It would not fall easiest on working people but it is a measure which the Government, by their incompetence in the management of our economic affairs, have certainly brought on their own heads.

Whatever happens, in all probability we shall have an autumn Budget. All of the Minister of this Government have called on the community to exercise restraint. It is the "in" word for this Cabinet. I am not one of those who takes a judgement from a man's private life and applies it to his public life and how he conducts himself in public. However, it is only fair to look at the style of the members of the Cabinet who are calling for such restraint from the community. The Fianna Fáil Government have been in power for 13 years and ever since the former Taoiseach, Mr. Seán Lemass, was in office, the style has been one of ostentatious living and spending; this is the era of the big spenders, the era in which some of the notorious big spenders also happen to be Government Ministers. I am aware—and I know politicians are no more exceptional than other human beings in this—of the kind of political criticism which, cloaking its envy seeks to give an ideological basis for an attack on those who happen to possess wealth. I do not wish to take that standpoint this morning. My point is that when members of the Cabinet make an appeal to their fellow citizens to exercise incomes restraint it is only fair that those fellow citizens should take a look at the living style of those Cabinet members. Certainly it must cause indignation to their fellow citizens, that such representatives, such people, that they who call for incomes restraint, should also be the proud owners of high-priced horses at handicap meets around the country, that they should have the neck to appeal to the community for incomes restraint.

The Taoiseach says he is not addressing his remarks on incomes restraint purely to workers. There was a vague intimation in his speech that unless greed stopped elsewhere he might act there, too, but it was only to those who are unfortunate enough to earn their living on a wage basis that there was a specific threat. The more we look at this Cabinet, the more we try to unravel the social programme of this Cabinet and the more we explain to people about their make-up, the better people will be able to see how seriously they should take this Cabinet.

I am suggesting we cannot take seriously any pleas for incomes restraint on the part of the Cabinet whose public and governmental style has been to hold themselves up to the population as the big spenders, saying: "Spend now. Do not save." I would say without any exaggeration that this is a Cabinet which is hooked on inflation and for these addicts of inflation to address themselves to other citizens on the subject of restraint is a very bad joke.

I do not think the Taoiseach's plea to the trade unions to exercise incomes restraint will be listened to. I do not imagine any trade unions could listen to an appeal coming from the head of a Cabinet who have made so many errors in the management of the economy who, in their most recent Budget showed little concern about the problem of inflation. We are all agreed about that. Even their own apologists admit that the earlier Budget of this year was one which failed to tackle the problem of inflation which at that time was perfectly evident. It was a Budget which threw kerosene on that inflationary fire which had already shown itself in a steep rise in prices.

We remember the increase in turnover tax. We pointed out that such an increase in the turnover tax must mean a sharp increase in prices. Of course, this has now taken place. We also pointed out that it was hypocrisy for the Government to claim that the increased social welfare benefits indicated that the Government had a tender social conscience, when in the period which would elapse before these benefits came in, these unfortunate people would be paying increased prices as a result of an increase in the turnover tax.

Any commentator on economic affairs will tell you that the Government which seeks to raise its revenue on the basis of a single tax, as this Government attempted to do in the last Budget, are a Government which are careless about the effects that will have on prices generally. There is no better way to increase prices than to impose all your taxes under the one heading and seek to raise your revenue on that basis.

The Minister for Finance only yesterday declared in the Seanad that he would be introducing a new value added tax next year. The same Cabinet which are calling for incomes restraint are advocating the introduction of a tax which, as any economic commentator will agree, must lead to further inflation. For this very reason the introduction of the value added tax is being opposed at present in Britain because of its recognised adverse effects on the cost of living.

There is confusion in this Cabinet as to how they will deal with inflation. The Minister for Health, Deputy Childers, said yesterday: "Name a country which does not have a balance of payments problem." Nobody in this House ever suggested that other countries do not have balance of payments problems, but I would ask the Minister for Health to name a country which has a balance of payments problem of the magnitude of ours and which also, at the same time, has rising unemployment and rising prices. That is precisely our situation. Therefore, I would ask the Taoiseach, when he is winding up the debate this evening, to give us the name of the country that has these three maladies all going on at the same time. I do not know of any country east or west of any curtain which has those problems. There were more people unemployed here in May of this year than in any May over the past 12 years, leaving out the number of people out of work in the cement strike.

The Government cannot blame any coalition for this situation. Since 1957 this Government have been in sole authority. They themselves are the authors of the disasters which are overcoming them on every front, economic, political and northern. There is confusion about what is their policy. They may devalue the £. They may be forced to do that. Their mistakes bring this possibility very near. They may bring in an autumn Budget which would seek to add fresh taxes. Quite obviously, they should have dealt with the matter of rising prices long before now. They needed no gift of prophecy to see it. The Civil Service could inform them of the increases which everybody else could see around them. They knew what was happening on the incomes front. They did nothing. They may now bring in this autumn Budget. They have been very fluent on the threat posed by rising wages and at this stage their remedy for their economic problems is the very old-fashioned, conservative one of beating down the wage earners. The Tánaiste's ideal world seems to be inhabited by docile trade unionists who do not eat, who do not look for wage claims, who stay at home doing what I do not know but certainly they are people who do not consume at all. They obviously just exist, immaterial beings in the Tánaiste's own imagination. They obviously do not consume because to consume one must seek increases. These ideal trade unionists do not do any of these wicked things.

The Government were lackadaisical when we pointed out the price increases. In question after question at Queston Time we told successive Ministers for Industry and Commerce that a sharp price increase had been registered in a certain series of goods and the Minister involved replied on several occasions that his inspectors were not aware of the increase at that time. One cannot expect much from a Government with a Minister for Industry and Commerce who has inspectors to spot out price increases and when a Deputy brings, long after the event has taken place, these price increases to his notice he declares himself ignorant of such price moves.

They are a Government, therefore, who have not shown themselves aware of increases when they have taken place and whose seemingly only permanent response to our economic difficulties is to restrain the wage earners in our community. Their only response, in fact, boils down to one of:"Contain wage demands". The Taoiseach in his opening speech, in which he considered the serious threat posed to the economy by inflation, denied that, in fact, he was addressing his remarks only to wage earners but, in effect, the specific threats included in his speech are directed solely to wage earners. They do not enter other areas. This Government are now back at the Lemass philosophy expounded originally in the pamphlet about the closing of the gap put out by Mr. Lemass when he was Taoiseach in the 1960s. That philosophy then announced and now unveiled once more is unchanged. It is that if the wage earners of the country can stop their demands for better conditions our economic problems will be settled. This of course, in itself, is a very doubtful proposition.

Therefore, we have rising prices, a big increase in the deficit in the balance of payments with Britain, a slowing down of growth in the economy and the prospects for later this year in the matter of employment show no sign of improvement. We had the highest unemployment rate for 12 years last May.

What of the Anglo Irish Free Trade Area Agreement? In the month of June our deficit on trade with Britain for the first six months of the year— and these are figures given out by the British Board of Trade earlier this week—was £5.23 million over the same period in 1969. In June alone imports exceeded exports by £5.36 million as against £4.9 million in June of 1969. We are getting far more British imports into the country. It is interesting, on the breakdown of these figures of Irish-British trade, that the biggest area of deficit is in manufactured goods so that our exports to Britain of manufactured goods amounted in June to £5.86 million and our imports for that month form Britain amounted to £9.96 million, nearly £10 million. Of course we buy these manufactured goods in the shops at present, products of the Anglo Irish Free Trade Area Agreement which the Cabinet opposite signed and which they told us would be ultimately for the good of this country. Now we are seeing here in the early 1970s some of the bitter fruit of that agreement, signed by Members opposite with so little heed of its future effects on the economy. All these things, all their mistakes, are now pilling on their heads and their only concern is to get culprits, to get a way out, to scuttle away from the problems which only they have produced by their own lack of action over the years past.

I was making the point, on incomes generally, that if any Government wish to speak on incomes they must have a certain moral authority if their advice is to be even heeded. We all accept the complications arising from the attempt to introduce an incomes policy, complications which may not permit of one being introduced in the first place, but a Government's advice to be heeded or listened to, speaking in this delicate area of incomes, needs a certain moral stature. I do not believe this Government have the moral stature for their advice in the area of incomes to be listened to, let alone acted upon. That is one of the problems the country faces. At a time when advice and guidance and direction must be given in the area of incomes and in every other area, this is a Cabinet who will not be listened to, who will not command respect, whose advice will not be heeded.

Prices may, before the end of this year, have risen by 10 per cent. This is quite possible. The Taoiseach—the innocence of the man is remarkable— in his speech at the beginning of this debate says:

Price rises last year of more than 7 per cent were serious enough but according to many forecasts they are likely to rise by an even higher figure this year.

It is as though he was reading news from another planet. One would never imagine he was the Taoiseach of the Government which have been in power for 13 years. It is as though he is detached from the whole business of price increases. A very frequent trait in Government reports lately, when dealing with the economy and prices in general, is to share the responsibility more or less. When things are going bad the method of the Cabinet is to share the burden but when things are going well they say it is all of their making. Things are not going so well now, so the watchword is "blame the community, the trade unions, the fitters, the cement strikes, the bank strike—blame anybody but, for God's sake, do not let anybody think it is our fault." I do not think that will work. It must be the job of the Opposition to ensure that it does not work because it is necessary, if there is to be any improvement, for people to recognise the kind of Government we have.

Unemployment is increasing; prices are on the increase; the balance of payments situation is becoming worse and the Government are in retreat from all the real problems, but in that retreat they are fighting amongst themselves about the mistakes they have made in relation to problems in this country. It is the type of Cabinet in which you could be talking to your best friend in that Cabinet today and next week a black maria might pull up at his door and a man in plain clothes takes your best friend to Green Street courthouse to answer serious charges. Only last night we heard of the existence of a new branch of the secrt policy. I am not the one to doubt the former Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries on this point. He was speaking evidently from the depths of experience when he said there was a new branch of the secret police in this very building. I hope the Taoiseach will answer this charge. Some months ago the Taoiseach assured the House that none of our telephones was tapped. Listening to Deputy Blaney last night it was obvious that he feels that his telephone is being tapped. Presumably the former Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries speaks to the former Minister for Local Government and presumably Deputy Boland's telephone is being tapped. These former Ministers are entitled to a hearing. They are entitled to call the Taoiseach's bluff and they are entitled to to a statement from the Taoiseach. If the Taoiseach's told us in the midst of the last crisis that none of our telephones was being tapped and if Members of the House allege in this debate——

They were not being legally tapped.

(Interruptions.)

Well, being tapped.

There is no case for tapping a Deputy's phone. legally or otherwise.

The Taoiseach, whom we all know to be an honest man, said that none of our telephones was being tapped and I take him at his word. Admittedly I do not use my telephone very often but I would believe that my telephone is not being tapped. Deputy Blaney said last night that his telephone is being tapped and Deputy Boland here says that it may not be legally tapped. That is true but there are extraordinary powers obviously in the possession of some group, some group with extraordinary connections with the Minister for Transport and Power or the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs, if some private group can set up a phone-tapping enterprise on their own outside of Government control or the knowledge of the Taoiseach. I hope the Taoiseach will answer this. I know he has a very winning way of looking at the clock after he has talked about irrelevancies for threequarters of his speech and saying that he has no time to answer direct questitons. May I invite him tonight to clarify this position at the very beginning of his speech, to give us a simple "yes" or "no", is this going on or is it not? We do not mind sitting until midnight or until tomorrow morning if he feels that he does not have sufficient time to explain all that he needs to explain. The Taoiseach has used the rules of this House unscrupulously to avoid explaining some of the things that needed explaining over the last few months. Last night Deputy Blaney complained, justifiably, about those who felt he had no right to speak about his attitude on the north while others with whose opinions he did not agree considered themselves free to speak on any and every occasion.

I sympathise with him in that opinion because the man who attempted to prevent Deputy Blaney speaking here was the Taoiseach. He is the person who has successfully muzzled every Member of this House, to prevent us discussing this important matter here.

On a point of order, is it not the Chair who is in charge of this House and does not the Chair decide what is discussed?

(Interruptions.)

The Government order the business of the House. That is what Deputy O'Leary is complaining about.

I am saying that you, the Government, Deputy, decide what we will be allowed to discuss and what time we will have. Deputy Blaney said that certain people did not wish him to express his views on the north.

(Interruptions.)

The Chair had no say. The Chair was prepared to allow such a debate.

This debate could not be avoided.

I sympathise with Deputy Blaney's gievance that he could not discuss this matter. I am pointing out that Deputy Blaney and others who may sympathise with him in the Fianna Fáil Party need not look at the Opposition when they speak on this matter. We sought a debate much earlier and the Taoiseach said that views expressed here might have inflamed the situation. Whether he was referring to the viewpoints of Deputy Blaney, Deputy Boland or anyone else I do not know, but if there is anybody who is guilty of demeaning and undermining Parliament and of saying to the people that Dáil Éireann was not competent to discuss this matter it is the Taoiseach. By his actions he prevented this assembly from discussing this matter over the past few months. I have no doubt his attitude will be unchanged and whatever problems arise in the north during the summer, or whatever problems this country may face, I have no doubt he will still refuse to all this assembly back to discuss the situation because of his dislike for the views of certain Members of his party on this matter.

As I said, this Government do not have the moral stature to speak on the matter of incomes because the public style of their own members renders them incompetent, does not give them credibility. I am not suggesting that every Minister must wear a hairshirt or that the practice of politics means that we are exemplars before the people in every respect, but I am saying that, where a government concentrate in their whole message on the economy, on the matter of restraint in incomes, then the community may fairly look at the living style of the Cabinet and ask "Can we take instructions from these men?"

Members of this Cabinet have shown themselves ostentatious spenders over the last 13 years. There was a marked change in the public style of Cabinets here as compared with those headed by Mr. Eamon de Valera, the president, and those headed by Mr. Seán Lemass and since. How can this Cabinet ask for wage and salary restraints when they themselves refuse to introduce a capital gains tax in the matter of land speculation and the vast profits made in that area? How can they expect the ordinary worker to heed advice when that advice is tainted? The advice is tainted because many of those who profit have accumulated a great part of their wealth on the basis of land development, development of which they had foreknowledge. How can they ask the people for restraint this year and next year in those circumstances?

Time after time our call for a capital gains tax has been brushed aside as an irrelevancy, as mere socialist petulance. This Government, this Cabinet, would have a greater moral stature had they introduced a capital gains tax. If the Taoiseach could say: "I have acted in the case of those who have made thousands and thousands of pounds simply by selling one piece of land from one month to the next and I have brought within the scope of taxation the gains of those who profited, not by their own labour or any particular intellectual exertion on their part, but simply because of foreknowledge about what was going to happen to a particular piece of land" then he would at least earn the right to have his advice heeded. But that has not been the evolution. The Government have refused to introduce such a tax.

We had the remarkable exercise last night of the former Minister for Agriculture telling us that affluence had destroyed patriotism. Two years ago that same Deputy as Minister for Agriculture talked loudly about what he and Fianna Fáil had done for their supporters up and down the country; he regaled his listeners with success stories. He salvaged Taca. Remember Taca. Though certain people are not in the Cabinet at the moment they can still ensure that the Cabinet will take no action on a capital gains tax. Taca's writ still runs. The power of those in Taca is still strong and, so long as this is the situation, so long will the trade unions ignore advice on incomes from this tainted source.

This Cabinet do not merit a hearing. They sold out the home market under the Anglo-Irish Free Trade Area Agreement and put men and women out of work by doing so. We are asked why we are unreasonable about the Common Market. Our experience here and elsewhere inclines us to look very deeply indeed at any measures proposed or any policies adumbrated by this Cabinet. We were told in 1961 that the Anglo Irish Free Trade Area Agreement would be the answer to all our ills at that stage. We were told of the marvellous bargaining. The figures published by the Board of Trade show exactly how good that bargaining was. The Labour party voted against that agreement and we are no longer alone in our opposition to and criticism of that agreement.

Now we are told that the answer to all our ills lies somewhere between Brussels and Bonn. It is suggested we suffer from some sense of national inferiority because we criticise the Government's headlong march into the Common Market. We do not consider the proposals put before us satisfactory and we will go on opposing entry especially when we know that no bargaining precautions have been taken. The approach seems to be that there is no objection to anything, no concessions to seek; it is simply a question of getting in as rapidly as possible. In those circumstances this party have a duty to the people to oppose such a manner of approach to Europe and the Common Market. If Britain becomes part of the enlarged Community some relationship must be devised between this country and the enlarged Community. This party will play a very full part, I hope, in devising that relationship so that it will redound to our advantage and not to the advantage of someone else.

We know the state of Irish industry and it is because we do that we oppose entry. We know the situation which will face many of our supporters if we join the Government in their romantic extravaganza on European unity. We have been lectured to on our lack of patriotism and the need to have European connections. But we are part of the Socialist International. That is our connection. In point of fact we are the only party with any international connections. We are the last who should be lectured about a lack of European connections. I wonder with whom will Deputy Meaney, for example, affiliate when we enter the Common Market. Has Deputy Meaney any idea which party he will join? There are certain innocent gentlemen who may think they can keep their own identity. But that is not so. Fianna Fáil will have to link themselves with some party in the European Parliament. I wonder which it will be.

In any society the manner in which a Government run their affairs and the affairs of the community affects all sections. So it is that Captain Brooke at Lisnaskea the other night could say "One wonders what the liberal press of Britain would have said if any judge in Northern Ireland had seen fit to make the extraordinary remarks recently uttered in Dublin". Captain Brooke was speaking about the Irish judiciary and their reluctance to try Deputy Haughey——

We cannot discuss this matter in the House.

Captain Brooke may speak of the matter in Lisnaskea but we cannot discuss it in Dáil Éireann. I accept the ruling of the Chair. Let us look at the position we have been brought to. This Cabinet with their majority, have the most bankrupt reactionary in the Unionist Party pointing out for the edification of his bigoted audience the faults and failings of public life in Dublin. If there was any sense of shame in the Cabinet surely they must feel it in the observation made by Captain Brooke—that he can in fairness point to our judiciary in this manner. One of the basic reasons given for the justifiably high salaries of the judiciary is that their impartiality would be affected by anything less; the fact that it can now be affected merely to try a former Minister makes one wonder where the argument takes us. I do not want to go into the rights and wrongs of that case but I protest vehemently that a member of the Judiciary should express himself in such a manner.

The Deputy is completely out of order. He knows it, but yet he continues to be out of order.

Captain Brooke is in order in Lisnaskea.

On a point of order——

I have given my decision and there can be no discussion on it.

Perhaps the Ceann Comhairle would have the courtesy to hear my point of order. It is that already in this House, with the Leas-Cheann Comhairle in the Chair, the remark made by Captian Brooke was quoted, and was allowed to be put on the records of this House. The Chair is not being consistent in the persons of the Ceann Comhairle and the Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

The Chair is being consistent. Deputy O'Leary is now discussing our judiciary and this matter does not arise for discussion in the House. What is said outside this House in another part of the country doe not arise.

The record of the House shows otherwise.

In regard to the remarks of Deputy Blaney last night, no one questions his sincerity but his grasp of the elements involved in the Northern Ireland tragedy must be questioned. Throughout recent events in the north it was noteworthy that Deputy Blaney's sympathy was on the side of the Catholics. There was no mention of any protestant deaths or casualties in his speech last night.

Perhaps his sympathy was sectarian?

It could be said that was the case whether he was aware of it or not because, apart from his obeisance at the end of his speech to Wolfe Tone, his sympathies were sectarian, as expressed last night. There is a temptation for our 26-County politicians in dealing with this problem to use it for political consumption on this side of the Border to enhance our reputation and our popularity. There are no laurels to be won on this side of the Border in attempting to be faithful to the facts and complexities of the situation. One may say as a generalisation of the conflict that we are faced in that part of our country with a conflict of traditions, now showing themselves in the form of a dirty religious war. The situation in the north can certainly put the Cyprus conflict in the shade.

I do not go along with those who say Britain has no responsibility. She has much responsibility for the institution of Partition, but Partition did not introduce sectarian conflict into Irish life. It may have institutionalised it but the conflict between Catholic and Protestant and the differences that exist between them have been part of Irish life for the past 400 years and have deep historical roots.

We have been learning belatedly about this problem in the past three or four years since events started to move of their own volition in the north. We have here a Cabinet that have been in power since 1957 but they did not begin to absorb some of the facts about Northern Ireland until about a year ago. Up to then they uttered a mixture of slogans, which were of popular appeal on this side of the Border, but they did not attempt to grasp the real problems that existed in the north.

The problems of the north had been dormant in Irish politics for the past 40 years. It had been used as a plaything of 26-county politicians and the problems of the north were used as pawns by politicians in the south. However, when forces began to assert themselves in the north our politicians had to take note and to consider what could be done.

We all accept that there is no easy solution to his problems but the formula proposed by Deputy Blaney suffers from his initial lack of comprehension in the matter. He has suggested the phasing out of British troops and British subsidies in that area. Yet the absence of British troops did not prevent bloodshed outside St. Mathews Church. We can say that bloodshed will not be averted by the departure of British soldiers from the north. The conflict between Irish people in that part of the country will remain and the basis of this conflict has little to do immediately with the presence of British troops. In fact, their presence is essential in order to confine that bloodshed. After 40 years of asserting that this is totally a British problem, for solution by Westminister, all Irish people must go some of the road in accepting that a major contribution towards its solution must be made by us. In the area under our control, a great deal can be done to build that secular republic which pre-figures the state of unity we all say we desire.

I have noticed that it appears to take a fresh disaster in the north before the Taoiseach says he is ready to act. It takes a fresh division in his own party for the Taoiseach to say that he is setting up an inter-Departmental Committee to consider the problems of the north. I would prefer that the Taoiseach would instead of suggesting to the Stormont administration that this summer would be a good time for consolidating their legislation, initiate instead changes in our Constitution. I should like the Taoiseach in his reply this evening to tell us what he has been doing in the past year in regard to this matter. Each time we have asked him about these changes in the Constitution his stock reply has been that the time is not yet opportune.

Quite apart from the fact that changes in our Constitution are necessary, I believe that if we are serious about the unity of the whole country we should act right away and make whatever changes we feel to be necessary. The present Constitution is so defective in many respects that I think we need a new Constitution allowing for freedom of conscience, a new Constitution which would be the ideal receptacle for an all Irish Republic whenever that should come about. We should not be in the position of awaiting fresh events before we do this or do that, nor should we consider making changes in our Constitution with the idea of making a bargain. If it is right to do so then it should be done. The Taoiseach has not shown any degree of urgency where this matter is concerned.

It may be said, too, that the Taoiseach has shown no sense of realisation of the need of Dáil reform. Three years ago the Labour Party tried to reform these ancient procedures that we follow. We have criticised the manner in which this Dáil is steadily being by-passed and becoming more irrelevant. I have a question for answer by the Taoiseach today on this matter. The elected members of the various parties in this House should come together to discuss what can be done to make this Dáil more relevant and to ensure that it will be seen to be the centre of national debate on any important question. For the next three months the Dáil will be in recess. This kind of leisurely harvest approach to the nation's affairs should be dispensed with. The job of a national Parliament is an all the year round and continuing activity.

Economically, the outlook is very bad. I do not see that this Government have, within themselves, the capacity to take the proper measures. I do not think it will have the co-operation of our people in any of the measures they deem to be necessary. One essential measure would be an incomes policy. Neither the Cabinet nor the Government have the authority to seek this necessary co-operation from the Irish people at this time. On the home front the Government must face the fact that we have rising unemployment and rising prices. We have a growing imbalance of tarde between this country and Britain. We have inner tensions in our Cabinet. One could say that the outcome of a trial in the autumn will have more to do with the possibility of this Government's being here next year to deal with the Budget of next year, for example, than any other factor. With regard to external problems, the Government and Cabinet have little to offer at this stage to the Irish people. A Government of that nature at this time of crisis are suspect so far as the Irish people are concerned.

Over the past few troubled months we have frequently approached the Taoiseach in a co-operative spirit in the desire to know exactly the real problems facing the Government at the same time declaring our desire to co-operate in maintaining democratic Government but we have been coldly received and rebuffed. The Taoiseach appears at all times to consider his own political future and his own political good. That is a lamentable approach. I trust that this evening he will treat this House honestly and will not seek to evade necessary explanations or avoid necessary answers. I trust he will utter something better than platitudes about our economic situation. With regard to our Constitution I trust he will give us a schedule of the activity which will take place on this and other matters. I trust he will be clear with the House if not with his own party. If he evades his responsibilities once more and takes refuge in another speech that explains nothing then I think he is threatening his own future as Taoiseach to an appreciable degree. After all, it is a very dangerous position which he occupies. This is not a normal adjournment. Even if he must depart as Taoiseach of this Government before we meet again, I hope he will tonight deal openly with the problems facing him as Taoiseach so that we may more clearly see the present economic and political position of our country.

Minister for Social Welfare (Mr. J. Brennan), Deputy Boland and Deputy Clinton rose.

Is the Minister for Social Welfare offering to speak?

Before the Chair makes a decision may I remind him that I offered at the same time as Deputy O'Leary last night and I want to inquire from the Chair in regard to a debate like this what the position is of a Deputy who is not subject to the Whip of one of the Parties in the House and if such a Deputy is entitled to take part in a debate of this nature or if he is not so entitled. If he is so entitled, how can he do so if the Chair insists on a strict rotation as between the Deputies who are subject to the Whip of one of the three organised parties in the House?

Could I also ask the Chair, if he sticks to the rotation, whether I should not be next?

If the Minister for Social Welfare and Labour, Deputy J. Brennan, offers, I shall call the Minister. As I made it clear to the House yesterday evening, in reply to Deputy Boland, every Deputy is entitled to be called and the Chair usually calls Deputies who offer. There is no question——

If the right of every Deputy to be heard is subject to there being nobody offering who is subject to the Whip of one of three parties in this House, may I point out that if that is ruling of the Chair it means that in a debate which has been limited in regard to time, by an agreement arrived at behind closed doors by the Whips of these three parties, it effectively excludes other Deputies from contributing to this debate, particularly when the Government party adopt the strategy that is obviously being adopted here today and which was admitted to be adopted to exclude Deputy Blaney from speaking yesterday. I suggest to the Chair that it is unreasonable and unfair that he should co-operate in this strategy that has been adopted by the Taoiseach to prevent me from speaking here today.

So far as the Chair is concerned there is no strategy. Members are being called from all sides of the House. Might I point out at this stage that, since this debate began, seven Government speakers intervened taking up 6½ hourse, Fine Gael had six speakers who spoke for seven hours, and Labour had five speakers who spoke for 4¾ hours. I do not think it is unfair that, with those figures in front of the Chair, he should turn to the Government benches for the next speaker. It has been the practice in this House since the establishment of the State that when a Minister offers the Chair calls on the Minister.

If Deputy Boland thinks that some sort of collusion or strategy is being adopted I want to say that I am not the least bit worried whether I speak or not. I was going to occupy about five or ten minutes of the time of the House speaking about the present position of the bank strike. I have no arrangement with anybody. I am not a party to any strategy. I do not care whether I talk or not.

If the Minister is not offering I will call on Deputy Boland.

In deference to the Independent sitting in the Fianna Fáil benches I agree to that.

I did not say I was an Independent. The Chair has called on me and I have a right to speak.

The Deputy was looking for an argument a moment ago.

I was not.

Deputy Boland.

I suppose I will be expected, like Deputy Blaney, to deal mainly with the concluding part of the Taoiseach's opening statement. This, in fact, I intend to do. I hope that, when I have concluded, Deputy O'Leary will not be as confused with regard to my position as he professed to be when Deputy Blaney finished. However, there are a few brief remarks I should like to make about the earlier part of the Taoiseach's opening statement.

I am glad that a decision has apparently been taken to tackle inflation as a specific problem. I feel that everyone will agree with the Taoiseach's general remarks about the dangers inherent in continuing inflation and the hardships caused to some of the most deserving members of the community which cannot be guarded against if it continues, and about the national necessity to halt this dangerous trend if we are to maintain our population and its natural increase at a reasonable standard of living.

I am somewhat less happy about the indications the Taoiseach gave as to how this problem might be dealt with. I fully appreciate that, in a speech of this nature, there could be no attempt to spell out in detail the governmental action that will be necessary if the community as a whole does not voluntarily devise methods of curbing inflation. My personal opinion is that the matters involved are far too complicated to expect the many different interests in each sector of our society to succeed, even with the best will in the world, in working out, without Government action, a system or an agreement which would result in the avoidance of the inflation we have had.

I realise that the Taoiseach said at the end of this part of his speech that the Government recognise that workers could not be expected to show restraint in wage demands unless other groups do the same, and unless they have some reasonable expectation that the rate of increase in prices will slow down. He went on to say that some arrangement must be worked out under which the legitimate interests of particular groups would be reconciled to the national interest. He did not indicate any way in which this could or should be done and this, of course, is the kernel of the problem.

He was reasonably specific as to the voluntary action that could be taken by the sector whose income consists of direct remuneration for services performed. Indeed, he was reasonably specific in indicating the type of Government action that might have to be substituted for voluntary restraint. It seems to me that there was an inadequate appreciation of the importance of such things as profits and expense account living in this whole problem. I have no doubt that figures could be produced to show that this element has not contributed to inflation to the same extent as wages, and that profits have not increased at the same rate as employees' incomes. There is no reason why they should. In fact there is every reason why they should not.

It may be that the entrepreneur's share and management expenses comprise a comparatively small part of total costs, but that is not the point. It is unrealistic and, in my opinion, unjustifiable to expect workers to restrain demands if they see spectacular increases in the wealth of a comparatively small number of individuals engaged in their own particular sphere of activity, and if they see ostentatiously luxurious living on expense accounts which are, in fact, financed largely by their labour. It is true that comparatively little might be gained directly by restricting this sort of thing, but the elimination of the scandal, and the incitement it contains for excessive wage demands, is a matter of the greatest importance.

Why did the Deputy never think of that before?

The Deputy does not know what I thought of before. He is not long enough here to know what I thought of before.

I have been in the country for a long time.

I can assure the Deputy that I think now as I have always thought.

Then the Deputy is a good socialist.

It does not matter what I am. Whether I am a good socialist or not I am not the same as Deputy O'Donovan and thanks be to God I am not the same as Deputy O'Brien.

I hope I will never be associated with either of them.

The Deputy has our assurance.

If I ever was, I do not think my association could be much shorter than the association of some of the people in the Labour Party will be. I appreciate that the profit motive is of importance in the generation of economic expansion and I do not think we can afford to do without it. I accept that the incentive of making money, as distinct from just achieving a reasonable annual income, must be retained. I do not accept that, in modern circumstances, the accumulation of large personal fortunes by individuals is necessary for further economic development. Many new undertakings are undoubtedly required but finance on the scale required must, in the main, be provided by the community as a whole, either through the banking systhem or more directly by way of State grants and loans. I do not see, and never have seen, that purely personal capital on a substantial scale is of any great importance.

Tell that to Deputy Haughey.

Of any great overall, economic importance. Of course it may be of importance to individuals. The entrepreneur is necessary and I think the possibility of reasonable profits and of improved status and comfort are necessary but the accumulation of excessive wealth by individuals is not necessary and if we are to expect restraint and responsibility from the sector which now has the power to exact demands which although they may not be excessive in the case of individuals can have a disastrous effect on costs and therefore on employment and real living standards, then I think that the fiscal system should be seen to be designed to at least make it difficult for a small number of people to acquire an inordinate share of the fruits of the work of a great number of people.

I am prepared to accept that remuneration is a greater constituent of costs than profits but this does not mean that the need for restraint is proportionate to the contribution made to costs. It is not necessarily equitable that these two things should increase at the same rate; in fact, it is much more likely to be inequitable that they should. I acknowledge what the Taoiseach did say, in speaking of the general unwillingness to forego the shortsighted and selfish approach which pushes prices up, that he was not just talking about wages but I felt that he did not succeed in giving the impression that his mind was as clear as to how increases in other incomes might be limited in the absence of voluntary restraint.

While I agree that wage claims in recent years have been, in many instances, excessive I am perfectly satisfied that it is only from this sector, the wage earners, that there is any reasonable prospect of voluntary restraint. In fact, it seems to me that it is only in this sector that an undertaking of voluntary restraint would be credible because it would be visible; it would be there to be seen whether or not it was being acted upon. But the Government must obviously come into it on the other side. Otherwise, nobody could reasonably be expected to believe that in fact any restraint was being exercised.

The Taoiseach was quoted as having indicated that it might be necessary to put the brakes on public and private expenditure. I hope that he is not contemplating agreeing to any restriction of the State's capital programme as part of the method of curbing inflation because, in my opinion, this is neither necessary nor desirable. I hope it will be made clear when the Taoiseach is concluding that no effort will be spared further to increase the capital provision in particular for such essential purposes as housing and water and sewerage schemes. There is a need for a continuously increasing capital allocation for these purposes and it would be intolerable that the allocation of capital for such vital needs as these should be regarded as an economic regulator.

I thought it was rather remarkable that in his opening statement in the Adjournment Debate the Taoiseach made no reference to what was probably the most outstanding, although possibly not the most important, happening in the Dáil session that is just concluding. In so far as his opening statement was concerned the midnight dismissal of two Ministers might be a commonplace occurrence. In fact, it was unique. I made my position clear in regard to this already. I fully accept the right of the Taoiseach to hire and fire members of his Cabinet as and when he wishes and to decide who will be members of his Cabinet and how long they shall remain members. I accept his right to change the personnel at any time he likes and for any reason, even for nothing more important than incompatability of temperament but, as I pointed out before, I personally would not be prepared to continue to serve in what should surely be a position of trust in the conditions that were outlined here yesterday by Deputy Blaney.

But in this particular case the Taoiseach did something more than just exercise the right to hire and fire. He gave reasons for his action and he sent his chief lieutenant, the Tánaiste, on television to describe the two dismissed Ministers as conspirators who had been purged from the Government. I appreciate that only one of these cases has been disposed of and that consequently it is too soon to know whether, when the long majestic process of the law will eventually come to an end, the Taoiseach will see any personal implications in the result. But I think it was surely a matter calling for at least some mention by the Taoiseach that it has been established conclusively that the information lodged with him and with Deputy Cosgrave in connection with one Minister has been proved to be false information and that it has been established that at least in so far as Deputy Blaney is concerned, the Tánaiste's statement that these were two conspirators who had been purged from the Government has been proved to be a false and malicious slander.

I think I am entitled to say without any implications in so far as the undisposed cases are concerned that anyone with a sense of justice and fair play would reasonably have expected some reference to the fact that, despite the Taoiseach's own statement here in the Dáil and despite his summary conviction on television by the Tánaiste, despite the unimpeachable character of the joint informer who was available both to the Taoiseach and Deputy Cosgrave, it has now been established by the courts of law that Deputy Blaney did not, in fact, conspire.

One might have expected some expression of regret, for instance, at the fact that Deputy Blaney had to expend a large sum of money to establish his innocence of the base charge that was preferred against him. One might have expected some expression of regret at the unnecessarily dramatic and uncouth manner of his arrest, at the unnecessary distress caused on Corpus Christi morning to his wife and children. One might have expected, in fact, an expression of relief at the failure of the vigorous effort made by the State to have bail refused and that this failure of the State in this instance at least has had the effect that Deputy Blaney has not spent five or six weeks in durance vile to expiate an offence he did not commit. However, there are still other cases to be disposed of and perhaps when they are disposed of this can be gone into in somewhat greater detail.

The Taoiseach dealt with the Six Counties position in the concluding part of his opening speech and I think that if we are to deal with the Government's approach to this whole question this must be taken with his Eve of the Twelfth statement on television. Taken on their own, I believe most of the sentiments expressed in that statement were almost universally acceptable and they were very well put. However, I found some ambiguity in the statement. I found the general tone unnecessarily abject, and I found what appeared to me to be some disturbing implications.

Anyone must agree that in the circumstances that existed, where an isolated minority in a large city appeared to be in imminent danger of suffering possibly greater violence than they suffered last August, the Taoiseach had, as a matter of duty to the Irish people, to concentrate, as he did, on making an effort to contribute to the averting, if possible, of this violence which appeared to be inevitable. He did this very well and he did make a powerful appeal as head of the Government for the avoidance of violence on that occasion. I do not think it was necessary, however, to create the impression that if there was violence it would be the nationalist minority that would be the aggressors. As I said, I found some ambiguity in the statement. There were some things in it that I did not understand and that were not explained.

At the outset of the statement the Taoiseach said: "We are on the brink of a great acheivement." I must confess that I did not know this. I still do not know it. Not alone did I not know we were on the brink of a great achievement but I do not know what the achievement is and I have not met anyone who does. I do not know anyone who can tell me what is the great achievement on the brink of which we are. I assume, in view of the context, that it has something to do with the division of the country. I would have thought the Taoiseach might have availed of the opportunity of this debate to be more specific and to tell us exactly what the great achievement is, particularly in view of the fact that there are apparently people endeavouring to prevent the accomplishment of this great achievement. It would be a help to those people, if they are not really maliciously motivated, if they knew exactly what the achievement was. It may, of course, be of such great moment that it must remain a secret. I can understand if that is the position, but I should like to know. Is it some significant advance on the road to re-unification or is it merely the acheivement of a 12th July free from death and destruction through the deployment of massive British military might in the Six Counties?

I should like to have some elucidation as to who exactly is trying to stop this great achievement. In fact how can anyone be held to be trying to stop something when they do not know what it is. I sincerely hope I am not listed among these subversives, because I certainly am not trying to prevent the accomplishment of any great achievement, but I must say I have the feeling that listeners were intended to believe that I was among the opponents of the achievement.

As far as I am concerned, I want to make it quite clear once again that I am not going to be talked into the position of being an advocate of physical force for the re-unification of our country, and I believe my former ministerial colleagues feel the same. To the best of my knowledge there is no Deputy in this House in favour of anything but peaceful methods for the solution of this problem. It almost seems to me as if the Taoiseach really believes that continued innuendos by himself and slanderous allegations on television by the Tánaiste will eventually create the position of there being a number of Deputies in favour of the use of force in this connection. This is not so. It never has been so and I believe the Taoiseach knows this. There is no need for the Taoiseach to be so diligently and consistently punching at this empty bag. There is no opposition here to the policy of a peaceful solution to the reunification of our country, and there is no failure to appreciate the need to reunify the people of the country; nor is there any failure to appreciate what this involves and the long-term effort that is required. I cannot see any point in people trying to insist that there is opposition to this policy when it is known that there is no such opposition.

Again the Taoiseach stated in his statement that his Government was the second guarantor. This was another point in the statement that puzzled me, because I must admit that I do not know, to this day, what this means. The Government is a guarantor of what? I would like to know of what is the Government a guarantor and how will the guarantee be implemented. With regard to the complete acceptance of the bona fides of the British in this connection, I can only say that the Irish people might be more prepared to accept that the appellation Perfidious Albion is out of date if there were not recent evidence of the cynical breaching of the spirit of trade agreements.

The Taoiseach's appeal for peace, restraint and forbearance in the face of provocation was very good as far as it went but the clear implication that any disruption of Her Majesty's law and order would be by the Nationalist minority indicated the adoption of the same "Croppies lie down" attitude which was set by Mr. MacEntee's most recent letter to the Press when he and the newspapers and the Labour Party seized upon the first biased reports of what had happened in the St. Matthew's area gleefully as something which they apparently thought could be represented as an indication of Fenian aggression in Belfast but which has since been shown to have been in fact a purely defensive action against an assault on the complex of religious buildings in that area.

Peace can, of course, be maintained or at least the disruption of peace can be minimised if one side refused to fight irrespective of the indignities, injustice, and violence that may be suffered. No doubt it is good and wise counsel to advocate turning the other cheek, to advocate reacting to murder only by burying the dead and praying for the assassin, to advocate reacting to the destruction of property either by repairing the damage in so far as it is possible and when it is considered safe to do it or by emigrating to some country or migrating to a part of the country where law and order prevails. That is no doubt good and Christian advice to give and the Taoiseach is very good at giving it. I must say, in passing, that my own personal experience is that he himself is no better than other mortals at accepting the advice of turning the other cheek.

However, it may be, as was implied I think in the speech taken as a whole, that there would be peace if no one resisted injustice or attempted to defend their lives and property when under murderous attack but I think it has been the experience that even when the masses of people do meekly accept their treatment they still often find themselves used as pawns in violent disagreements that they have not created themselves.

Another thing I found somewhat disturbing was the unequivocal acceptance by the Taoiseach that this is an Irish quarrel and that there is no invader involved. I feel that this, as he somewhat more than hinted himself, is an abandonment of what has up to now been the national position. I cannot help asking is it the prelude to the acceptance of the recommendation of the Committee on the Constitution to ask the people to delete the vital Article 3 from that document. I say that the statement that this is a purely Irish quarrel and that there is no invader involved in it is wrong. The trouble in this country is a British machination and a total British responsibility. They created this position, they continue actively to perpetuate it and it is their duty to set about ending it.

Last year the culprits in the situation were Messrs. Callaghan and Wilson who perversely insisted that what happened in the Six Counties was an internal United Kingdom matter. It is not, they were wrong and I think they should have been told so. It is their responsibility, theirs is the blame but it is our legitimate concern. It is not part of the United Kingdom, it may be physically absorbed into the United Kingdom but it is part of our country. This year the culprits are Messrs. Health and Maudling.

The trouble in our country is the inevitable outcome of the action of the British Parliament in partitioning our country. In my opinion it is wrong to blame the orange Order, the protestant ascendancy, the Unionist Party or any of these things for this trouble because these are all essential to the success of the British plan, to the continuation of the Six County state which was created by the British Parliament. Equally essential is the massive subsidisation and the military maintenance of this unjustifiable state at the expense of the British taxpayer. The British are continuing, active aggressors in our country and the British troops who are holding Belfast in a grip of steel are occupation forces and they are unacceptable invaders in our country. I say this without, in my opinion, being in any way inconsistent when I also say that this military operation was essential to avert a massive attack on the local minority and that it was the minimum duty of the British Government to take this action. The point is that the need for the action arises directly from continuing British imperialism and aggression in this country.

Hear, hear.

I think it is wrong to deny that this is so. The first essential, the sine qua non for a solution of this problem, is a British decision to embark on what must be, I agree, a gradual and extended operation of withdrawing from our country.

If the Taoiseach accepts, as he appears to, that there is a right for a minority, which happens to be a local majority in a certain area, to secede from the Irish nation or to be abstracted from it by the British Parliament, this is clearly a reneging of what has hitherto been the national stand-point. One can then understand the reference to past gods, although I can recall an occasion just six months ago when the audience was physically present, not sitting at home in front of television sets, shortly after I had quoted a past god on this question of the inviolability of the Irish nation when the Taoiseach hastily amended his script to insert into it a whole litany of past gods who had enunciated a policy as far back as 1926 to which the gathering was assured we still subscribe. The past gods who are to be renounced were not specified but since Partition was not really envisaged before the Home Rule Bill and the Second Covenant, presumably these past gods are of quite recent vintage. Tone, it is assumed, is not to be renounced, although when one recalls the circumstances of his return to this country shortly before his death and associates it with current events it seems that he may be partly renounced also and that his doctrine is only selectively retained.

It is time to state definitely if there is as the newspapers say, a new policy in regard to Partition. Has the position changed since last January when the Fianna Fáil Ard Fheis was assured that the policy remained as enunciated by the past gods in 1926? Is it now accepted that a minority, which happens to be a local majority, has the right to opt out of the Irish nation?

Is it accepted that this right can be legitimately exercised so as to extend to the maximum area that it is feasible to keep out, and if so what of the smaller minorities comprising local majorities in smaller areas? Or is it that once this position of an artificial unit has been created, illegally and unjustly, that it is accepted that the injustice may not now be undone unless the minority constituting a local majority, which was utilised by British imperialists for the purpose, changes step and in spite of subsidisation by the British asks to return to the nation out of which the British Parliament legislated it? If that is the position then there certainly is a new policy and it is indeed necessary to adjure past gods and discard the former national faith before really giving allegiance to the current deities or accepting the new doctrine that it is legitimate to divide an old nation, and asking the people to return to the pre-1937 position in regard to the Border by deleting Article 3 from the Constitution.

In view of the fact that this report of the committee has been in print for over 2½ years and in view of the Taoiseach's Tralee speech and his Eve of the Twelfth television statement, it is high time we were told the Government's intentions in regard to this recommendation. It is the first recommendation in the report. Article 3 of the Constitution reads as follows:

Pending the re-integration of the national territory, and without prejudice to the right of the Parliament and Government established by the Constitution to exercise jurisdiction over the whole of that territory, the laws enacted by the Parliament shall have the like area and extent of application as the laws of Saorstát Éirean and the like extra-territorial effect.

I am aware that the introduction to this report states that recommendations are not necessarily the views of the political parties involved. Paragraph two of the introduction states that:

It is agreed between the political parties that participation in this committee would involve no obligations to support any recommendation which might be made, even if made unanimously. It is also agreed that members of the committee either as individuals or party representatives would not be regarded as committed in any way to support such recommendations.

I am aware that the Taoiseach has also said this but the Taoiseach has not, as some people think, said that the recommendation has been rejected. It has not been rejected. It has not been pronounced on at all. I am wondering if this is a case where silence will be held to indicate consent and will we wake up some morning to find it has become Fianna Fáil policy to put this recommendation to the people, to recommend to the people that they should undo what was done in this regard in 1937 and should in fact adopt the only Cumann na Gaedheal policy in regard to the Border.

This Article was surely inserted in the Constitution for a very definite purpose. The enactment of this Article in the Constitution was an important change in the position. Prior to 1937 the position was that the people had through the agency of their delegates in the Dáil ratified the boundary agreement and registered it as an international agreement at The Hague. In enacting Article 3 in 1937 the people by their own direct vote reversed the decision made here by their delegates and substituted the solemn assertion of the right of the Parliament elected under the Constitution to exercise jurisdiction over the whole of the national territory.

In view of the fact that this report has been published for 2½ years it is time for the Taoiseach to tell us unequivocally whether this recommendation is accepted or rejected. In other words, whether it is proposed to ask the people to reverse their own decision and re-establish the position of a ratified boundary agreement which existed prior to 1937 and which was established by the old Cumann na nGaedheal Government. We have been told that constitutional amendments will be required if we are to join the EEC but we have not yet been told what exactly these amendments will be and therefore it would be premature to comment on them. However it has been intimated in the last week or so that these will be all presented for decision together. I would like to know if it is intended to insert in this package this proposal, to ask the people to withdraw their own assertion of the right of the people to exercise through their elected Parliament jurisdiction over the whole of their territory, in the hope that it will slip through as part of the EEC proposition.

While I am seeking some clarification on some of the points made by the Taoiseach perhaps I could also ask for something more specific in regard to the visit of the Minister for External Affairs to Belfast. I may say, of course, that I consider the visit was justifiable and that it should not be questioned; certainly there should be no question of the right of the Minister to go to any part of this country he wishes. Although first-hand accounts were already available, I feel that it probably was a good idea for the Minister to go and see with his own eyes some of the depredations of the British Forces in that particular part of Belfast.

The point that needs some clarification is that the Minister is reported to have said that the visit was intended to "show solidarity" with the minority. I do not know if I am using the exact words, but the phrase "to show solidarity" was used and was, I think, given as the main purpose of the visit. I should like to know what the phrase "to show solidarity" means, because I do not know. To show solidarity? To simulate solidarity or to establish actual solidarity? Does it mean that if the minority with whom we were to show solidarity were attacked, arising out of this solidarity we would consider ourselves attacked also? Does it mean that if they tried to defend themselves when attacked, we would help? Or does it mean what it has meant in the past and what the phrase "We will not stand idly by" has been proved to mean—that, if they try to put themselves in a position to defend themselves until the arrival of the British Army, we will use the full resources to hand to prevent them doing so and compel them to take the more Christian attitude of lying down to die as good little Croppies should?

I find it hard to avoid being cynical when, on his return, the Minister deplored the fact that the incursion of the British Army into the Falls left the minority defenceless to their well-armed enemies in view of the fact that he is a member of the Government which, without evidence, took from them a key figure in their inadequate defence arrangements and which have declared their duty to be to endeavour to ensure that they will remain defenceless. It just does not seem to me to be consistent to complain if the British Army helps in the achievement of that objective to ensure that the minority in Belfast, or elsewhere, will be left defenceless to their well-armed enemies.

While, as I have said, most of the sentiments expressed by the Taoiseach would be endorsed by all true Irishmen, the omissions from and, indeed, some of the content of his statement make it, as I said, appear to me to be an abject statement. This is emphasised by the quite unjustified apology to Her Britannic Majesty's 1970 soldiery because the inconsiderate Irish people, by their mere existence and their perversity in insisting on trying to live in their own area, forced them to act in Belfast with the same brutality and licentiousness as did her illustrious grandfather's Black-and-Tans 50 years ago, forced them to act in a manner which, as the native peoples from every corner of the one-time Empire on which the sun never sets know, is completely out of character with the noble traditions established by their predecessors in their altruistic task of bringing the benefits of British rule and British justice and paternalism to those areas. I do not think that any apology was due for the fact that they had been forced, apparently by the existence of this particular section of the community in Belfast, to act in the brutal way in which they acted during their incursion into the Falls area.

I said I hoped that Deputy O'Leary and others would not be confused by my attitude to Government policy in regard to Partition. I have, I think, said with the utmost clarity, not just now but on many other occasions as well, that I and every one of my acquaintances and friends, be they ex-Ministers or otherwise, fully subscribe to the policy of a peaceful approach to the solution of this problem, that I recognise the inappropriateness of force and that I can see no gain in an Irish Government having to contain a dissident minority in the same way as the isolated section of the national majority is contained in the Six Counties. The last time I heard Government policy expounded on this matter was with a formal and almost ritualistic rededication to past gods before a live audience in the Mansion House. This was the policy of Fianna Fáil since 1926, to which I have subscribed all my life and to which I still subscribe, and it was restated on that occasion in a way that completely satisfied me. I have, I think, made no secret of my dissatisfaction with certain aspects of the actual implementation of the policy that has been announced. We have had hints of a new policy, but nothing definite.

Deputy Cosgrave has claimed that Government policy has now, in fact, come round to Fine Gael policy in this matter, but this has not been admitted. Overall, there is the very vital question of the proposal to ask the people to delete Article 3 of the Constitution which, if it is accepted, will amount to a proposal that Fianna Fáil should adopt not merely Fine Gael policy but Cumann na nGaedheal policy. As far as I know, this policy has not actually been decided. Until such time as the proposed refutation of past gods is spelt out in detail, it must be assumed that the official formal rededication to the past gods and their policy and to the Fianna Fáil policy of 1926, which was made at the last Fianna Fáil Ard Fheis last January, still stands.

I was pleased to be able to give way to the Independent sitting in the Fianna Fáil benches, and I must admit his speech was worth listening to. His contribution on the economic situation was more effective than were his contributions when he was Minister and his approach to the subject would be acceptable on the Opposition benches. While making a reasoned speech on this aspect of the economy he criticised the lack of Government leadership at this crucial time.

Before commenting briefly on some of the statements made by Deputy Boland, I should like to mention that yesterday we had an assurance from the Tánaiste that never before were the Fianna Fáil Party as united as they are at the moment. It was worthwhile allowing Deputy Blaney and Deputy Boland to make their speeches because they help us to understand what that type of unity really means. I realise it is not fair to include Deputy Boland among the membership of the Fianna Fáil Party. A certain well known politician used to tell the people of this country that we were in the Common-wealth but not of it; Deputy Boland is in the Fianna Fáil benches but he is not of Fianna Fáil.

One of the points mentioned by him was that there has been a court case and at least one of the dismissed Ministers had been proved innocent. It would be more correct to say that there was insufficient evidence in his case and it is no harm to put that fact on the records of the House. He then proceeded to deal with the Taoiseach's opening speech——

That is a judgment.

He referred to the Taoiseach's remark that the country was on the brink of a great achievement. The Deputy said he did not know what the Taoiseach meant and he would like the Taoiseach to explain that phrase. The greatest achievement of which I can think, and I am sure it occurred to the Deputy, is the decline and fall of the Fianna Fáil Party.

The Deputy has not a hope.

This country is suffering from many ills but I think the gravest ailment is a surfeit of Fianna Fáil. We have reached the point where Fianna Fáil are afraid to stretch out a hand in case they hit one of their own. They have been in power for 32 years and during that time they have lavishly dispensed political favours all over the place and have been guilty of jobbery on a grand scale. It is no wonder we have reached a point where the ordinary people regard with contempt the people who are entrusted with administration of the nation's affairs.

There is no point in expecting people to be concerned about Ireland if Ministers are not concerned; and we have evidence that quite a number of Ministers were more concerned about their personal interests and the interests of their party than they were about Ireland. If we want co-operation from the people there must be example from the top and we must face the fact that there has been a considerable amount of bad example from the top. That is one of the reasons why in almost every sector of the economy there is unrest and dissatisfaction.

Deputy O'Leary referred to the fact that we did not have good example and I agree with him. We have no indication that the people responsible for the well being of the State were prepared to make sacrifices and to give the lead in what they considered was necessary if Ireland was to be saved. There is no doubt that our country is in danger and the sooner people realise this the better.

Any sensible people will not leave a Government in power for more than ten or 12 years because if a Government remain in office for longer than this outside pressures build up and outside influences are brought to bear on the activities and decisions of the Government. The result is that you have government outside Parliament. That is what has happened with Fianna Fáil. All these pressures have built up and we know the result.

In the course of his speech Deputy Blaney referred to the presence in this House of the Special Branch. The presence of the Special Branch is more acceptable to me than the presence of Tacateers and you could trip over them in every part of this House, particularly when the Government were in some danger. However, I make that remark merely in passing.

This country is going through difficulties and leadership and good example are missing. The people are not prepared to co-operate and both the Government and people should look for the reason. Why is it so difficult and are we trying hard enough to tackle the problems in the right way? Ireland is in danger and we should realise that the people who will kill it are the Irish people themselves, not outside forces. Everybody is grasping; everybody is greedy for more; there is avarice in every section of the community. The motto seems to be "Get more no matter whom you have to hit." There is no great regard for the 70,000 unemployed in this country; nobody seems to be over-concerned about them. All sections have a responsibility in this and there is no point in Deputy O'Leary exonerating the people whom he says he represents— the trade unions and so on. Trade unions have responsibility but the Government must come in and say to them and to the employers that they must come together and work out a formula to correct the situation whereby we are pricing ourselves out of the export market. We must remedy this situation if we are to save our economy and provide the employment opportunities that are so badly needed.

I hope it is not too late but I think we have gone fairly far. The bank strike has gone on for far too long. The Taoiseach says he will not intervene. The Minister for Labour says he will not intervene. This strike continues. The bank staffs should decide to ballot. It has gone past the time when we should be arguing over the niceties of this settlement. These are responsible people who have a serious responsibility to give a lead in present circumstances. These people should decide to ballot if we are to have democracy at all. I could go farther than that but I shall not. Certainly it is time the bank strike was settled. If it is not settled soon and if no move is made in this direction then the Minister for Labour has a responsibility to intervene. The Taoiseach cannot ignore this responsibility.

With regard to Deputy Blaney's speech here last night, quite frankly I am amazed at the amount of publicity it received in today's papers. What was new in Deputy Blaney's speech? He talked for a very considerable length of time about the situation in the North of Ireland, about the Border and about re-unification. While giving him all this publicity, the newspapers today say that the only new thing that emerged from that speech was his suggestion about the making of a serious approach to the British Government to name a date for starting to phase themselves out of the North of Ireland and for starting to withdraw their subsidies from the North of Ireland. This is exactly what I propounded in this House in September, 1969. I pointed out that I had discussed the matter with quite a large number of the British delegates to the Council of Europe and that I had suggested to them that it might be a great help if they decided now to name a number of years during which they would phase themselves out of the North of Ireland and a number of years during which they would withdraw their subsidies. It would help to solve a situation for which Britain was directly responsible. Nobody denies it.

In everything Deputy Boland and Deputy Blaney say about this, we cannot say they are wrong. They are perfectly right in a whole lot of things which they say. The attitude and the reaction I got from them—both from the Labour side and the Conservative side—was that they are sick and tired of the situation in the North of Ireland and would be glad to be rid of it. I do not think there would be any great difficulty in getting this suggestion accepted if serious approaches were made. I am quite sure the Minister for External Affairs, Dr. Hillery, is not idle in this matter. I accept that he cannot tell the House every move he has made towards re-unification. I would not think it is quite right to say, as was alleged, that certain things were not being done. I am quite sure the Minister for External Affairs is moving in this direction. If he were not, he would not be worth his salt.

In what way was Deputy Blaney helping to solve the northern situation? He went through the tragedies one by one. He spoke with feeling, as we all would speak, about the shooting of a nine year old child in bed. Will his recalling of these tragic incidents help? I believe it will only regenerate bitterness and hatred instead of helping to reconcile the Irish people. I cannot see that Deputy Blaney is contributing in any positive way towards the solution of this difficult problem. He feels, nevertheless, he is the only person who has a solution for this difficult problem. That is nothing new: it has always been Deputy Blaney's attitude and approach. When he was Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries he was a dictator. He was not a Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries as I would see the role of such a Minister, creating conditions within which farmers would do their own job. He wanted, from the top, to dictate every move. There is no change in that man's attitude today. His approach to Partition and to the Northern Ireland problem is the same as it would have been 50 years ago.

It is all right for Deputy Boland to talk about Article 3 and the dangers of removing it from the Constitution. Nobody would agree that a small corner of the country should have the right to isolate itself and say that only a majority opinion there should alter the situation. We have to face facts. We have had this cod from Fianna Fáil that we have jurisdiction over the 32 counties of Ireland when in fact we know we have not such jurisdiction in six of our north-eastern counties. It is all right to say that these people have no right to constitute a local majority and to make this decision for us but we must recognise that 900,000 or 1,000,000 people decide they do not want to join the Republic. Are we recommending force of arms if they say "No"? This is what we are up against.

It is the declared policy on all sides of this House that the only worthwhile solution is a peaceful solution and a peaceful approach. I was born quite close to the Border. I was brought up to hate the British people because of our history. I found it very difficult to swallow a whole lot of things but I am now an adult and, I hope, a fairly seasoned politician. Politics is the art of the possible. When I was younger and much more emotional, I would have been on the train to the north if there was trouble. I saw the two days. I see the stupidity of this now. I see the bloodshed that would arise out of such a foolish decision. We must secure the re-unification of our country by persuading the majority of the people in the north that it is in their better interests to come in with us.

The Government are getting the fullest measure of co-operation from the Opposition parties in this House in this regard and they should admit it. The blank refusal of the Government to set up an all-party committee to study this problem continuously and to see how we can achieve the objective of harmony and peace between all the people of this island indicates a certain degree of insincerity on the part of the Government in their protestations of their desire to banish the fears and suspicions of all the people concerned. If we can hold the line until both sides are in the EEC—I think that will not be very long delayed—it will represent an immense step forward on the road to re-unification of our country. It will make the Border look the farce it is and we shall all be part of the same community and get to know each other and work together in the common interest. We will be defending the same territory. It is beyond my comprehension that the Border could remain in those circumstances.

We have suffered this situation for 50 years. Surely we can suffer it for some years further? I do not think it will be necessary to use any force. Force will achieve nothing but bitterness and new hatreds that will never be forgotten. I am glad that Deputy Blaney and Deputy Boland came into the House and spoke. This is the place to tell the House what they have in mind. I find it very difficult to understand and reconcile one thing. We have this new and fantastic enthusiasm on the part of Deputy Blaney about the North of Ireland. He has been in Government for some years, and Fianna Fáil have been in Government for 32 years, and we have not seen this concern; we have not seen this display; and we have not seen any achievement. This must be admitted.

It was not until the civil rights people started on a new and more effective role in the North of Ireland that this concern became obvious. They are quite right in their priorities. The important thing is to try to secure justice in many areas in the North of Ireland where justice has been denied in the past. That is the first step. If they got equality of treatment this, in itself, would lead to better understanding. The people in the North of Ireland, Catholic, or Protestant, or whatever their religion may be, must get closer together and understand each other better.

We have a responsibility here and it should be the responsibility of an all-party committee. We have a responsibility to look at the Constitution and see what are the Articles in it to which these people can object and see how far we can go to meet their objections without in any way scrapping our Constitution. Deputy Blaney spoke about Article 3 being brought in in 1937. There is another Article in the Constitution which deals with the special position of the Catholic Church. That was brought in in 1937 also. Now we have Fianna Fáil Ministers saying it should be out, so everything that was put into it in 1937 cannot be regarded as something that should be retained for all time.

Earlier on I referred to the unrest and to the unfortunate state of the economy generally. There are many things I should like to refer to. We had the cement strike for a long time, for far too long, before the Minister intervened to settle it. We had the settlement of the cement strike and then we had a price increase of 16s 8d per ton. When I questioned this price increase and stated emphatically at Question Time that no more than 6s of it was attributable to wages, I was told by the Minister for Industry and Commerce that the increase covered only 63 per cent in Drogheda and 80 per cent in Limerick. He did not say where he got those figures. I know he is getting them from Cement Limited and, quite frankly, I do not believe them.

We have now reached the point where we have by far the dearest cement in Europe, including England. The Minister seems to be unconcerned about it. He seems determined not to bring in legislation to bring cement within the ordinary price controls. That is a fantastic situation, because housing is so important and there is such a backlog of housing needs. This will go down on the record as one of the worst years for the provision of houses. Of course, the excuse that will be offered by the Government at the end of the year is the cement strike. In the local authority of which I am a member, the cement strike is now given as the excuse for everything.

We had the cement strike and and have the bank strike, but the Government have no responsibility. Of course, this will mean an immense saving to the Government in many ways. I was reading through the Newsletter of the Confederation of Irish Industry and the first paragraph is worth quoting and putting on the record of the House because it deals with this inflationary situation. It says:

A series of industrial relations disputes have temporarily curbed what, earlier in the year, appeared to be a serious inflationary trend. Following a year of rapid inflation, the 1970 Budget under ordinary circumstances, could only be described as adding fuel to the fire. However, the cement strike, the bank dispute, the general fall in share prices and most recently, the British dock strike, seem to have damped down the fire.

Mind you, the fire is there. I think the Minister for External Affairs will speak soon and he can talk about the fire. It goes on:

A serious inflationary situation has been corrected, albeit temporarily, not by the control of the economy through the monetary and fiscal tools available to Government but through industrial disputes and the hardship, disruption and distortion which accompany them.

While these strikes appear to have temporarily eased the situation, the settlements may be inflationary. It is important at this stage to attempt to assess the underlying economic position and to identify trends which may develop later in the year.

When inflation occurs the Government are accused of contributing very largely to it, through their own spending and through increases given to civil servants and people in semi-State bodies. Of course this is so. If prices are allowed to soar, and if the cost of living is allowed to soar, people cannot be blamed for looking for what they can get to try to meet these increased costs.

Leadership is needed. The Government should get all the people concerned in all these difficulties to come together to see exactly how serious this is, to see what restraints can be accepted by the workers in every sphere from the top to the bottom, and to see what restraints in profits can be accepted by the people who are responsible for providing employment opportunities for the people. As Deputy Boland said, you cannot eliminate the profit element. There must be a profit element because it is a stimulus to industry. The problem is how to reach a point where these two interests can be reconciled. I would be amazed if sensible people cannot sit down together and see when the danger point has been reached, when it must be accepted in the various spheres that this is as far as we can go in increasing incomes and increasing wages and profits, and that there is a serious situation beyond which we cannot go because otherwise we will price ourselves out of the export market and the economy will collapse.

Reference was made by a number of people to the EEC and to our interest in the EEC. I think it is generally accepted, even by the Labour Party, that the wise thing for this country to do is to plug ahead and get into the EEC, and get into it as soon as possible.

Commit suicide quickly.

This is what Deputy O'Donovan says but he does not believe it.

I do believe it.

He is a good economist but he talks about a special arrangement, a special trading arrangement. Where does he think the bargaining power will come from for this special trading arrangement?

Where will the bargaining power come from if you have a noose around your neck?

Debate adjourned.
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