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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 5 Nov 1970

Vol. 249 No. 5

Decimal Currency Bill, 1970: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The Bill was last debated before the Recess on 23rd July, 1970. On that occasion I made the point that the Bill was brought about because of our proposed entry into EEC and not because of any demand for a change in the currency system on the part of the general public or the business sector of the community. I suggested that perhaps a better unit of currency would have been the 10s piece rather than the £1. I believe that the £1 unit was imposed on us, as so much has been, by the British because of a sentimental attachment to that unit and a demand from their business section to hold on to that unit. The 10s piece, made up of the original ten units of 1s and now the five new pence piece, would surely have been much more easily convertible and would have been far easier to compare with other international currencies such as the dollar. The original ten coins which made up the various units of our coinage have now been reduced to six under the decimal currency regulations. It is a pity that the 6d piece which has no equivalent in the new decimal currency could not have been retained. This coin would have been most useful. The Minister, in his speech on the Second Reading, mentioned its usefulness on a couple of occasions and suggested it would be used to compare costs of items which cost small amounts when the changeover is being made. He said: "Since 6d in the old currency is exactly equivalent to 2½ new pence exact change can always be given to customers tendering sixpenny multiples."

There is a period commencing in February next when the changeover will take place and referred to in the Bill as the changeover period and, in his speech, the Minister suggested that this period would take possibly up to one year by the time people were fully conversant with the new currency. But in the Bill, in section 6, I think, it states quite clearly that cheques drawn in the old currency during that period will be invalid. The Minister must surely see the amount of confusion this is bound to bring about in the coming year and perhaps in such circumstances advantage will be taken of this part of the Bill by certain unprincipled people to delay payments. The past year has gone by in the main without the banks being open. When we last discussed the Bill the bank strike was going on. That strike is now over but the banks are not yet open to the public. The added strain on the staffs of the banks in dealing with the flood of business they will meet when the banks do open will leave them with very little time or energy for the changeover to decimal currency.

In the first annual report of the Irish Decimal Currency Board, page 12, it is stated:

The banks have a key role to play in the changeover. They are cooperating with the Board and the Central Bank in detailed plans for the vast withdrawal of LSD coins and the issue and distribution of decimal coins.

That was stated in November, 1969. Since then the banks have been closed for six months and the co-operation mentioned must have been very little indeed. There is no specific mention of the banks' role in the second annual report of the Irish Decimal Currency Board. Perhaps the date set for the changeover is now a little premature since the banks were not operating for quite a long period and I wonder would the Minister now consider postponing the date for the changeover until the banks are themselves in a position to deal properly with the changeover and the withdrawal of the coins.

The first period of advertising in connection with the changeover has been directed mainly to the business community. At least 14,000 people have attended talks given under the auspices of the Decimal Currency Board in towns throughout the country. The figures given in the appendix to the second annual report would suggest that interest varies quite considerably from one centre of population to another. Three talks were given in Galway and only 139 people turned up to those three talks. In Bray 280 people attended one talk. An attendance of 14,000 at these talks out of the total business population seems a very small figure. The bulk of the work of getting the message across to the general public remains to be done in the few weeks after Christmas.

The Minister suggested in his opening speech that the main pressure of publicity will be crammed into the last six weeks and that each household will be given an explanatory leaflet. In some shops efforts are being made to acclimatise people to the changeover by putting the prices of the articles on sale in both currencies. I would have thought that some publicity could have been given on television and radio to back up this effort by these more enterprising businesses.

No details are given in the report of the breakdown of the cost. It is suggested that £240,000 will be required to complete the publicity campaign. This is added to a figure of, I think, £78,000. I would say this is an inflated figure for this particular exercise. The Minister should give the House some details about what is being done with this £340,000 in effecting this changeover. I expect there will be heavy advertising in the newspapers and on television. This expenditure of £340,000 is being imposed because of the likely, or unlikely, prospect of our entry into the EEC. It seems a somewhat costly exercise when one considers some other expenditures on other futile exercises in the recent past, expenditures on tribunals and so forth. The Irish public have been asked to pay almost £1 million for various tribunals. Now there is this additional expenditure on the changeover to decimal currency, with no benefit to the public, and I think the Minister should at least give some details as to how this £240,000 will be spent in completing the changeover.

I should like, first of all, to discuss the effect the recent bank dispute has had on the changeover to decimal currency. I do not wish to over-emphasise the seriousness of the position but it is quite obvious that a successful changeover has been damaged to a certain extent by the prolonged bank dispute. At the moment there is quite a backlog of uncleared cheques and, when the banks reopen to the public, it is quite possible that there will be a vast increase in both the number and value of uncleared cheques. I do not know how long it will take to clear this backlog but I have heard it said that proper accounts will not be available to customers until next Easter. That is quite a long time, but I can see the problem facing the banks. I imagine none of the commercial banks would be anxious to stop a customer's cheque because there may be funds somewhere within the banks' clearing system to meet that cheque. But this will be a problem. I do not know how far the commercial banks will go to meet the customers but, when the Minister comes to reply, he should give a clear indication as to the stand that should be taken by the banks in this matter. There will also be quite a number of cheques in the clearing system after decimal day. I do not know what the legal position will be with regard to these cheques. Since they were drawn prior to the changeover in the old currency system they will have to be changed over into the new decimal currency by the banks.

This will present quite a problem in view of the number of cheques in the banking system. I do not wish to discuss the bank dispute but there can be no doubt that it has upset arrangements for the changeover to the new currency. There will be a period during which we will have a dual currency system. The Minister must appoint a day on which the changeover period will end. I have no doubt he will be reasonable and not only give the commercial banks a chance to catch up on the backlog of work but will also give everyone in the community an opportunity to get acquainted with the new decimal currency system. It would be quite unfair to designate, say, next March or April as the end of the changeover period. I would suggest a longer period of possibly six months from decimal currency day. I recognise the validity of the argument that we should not delay too long in changing over to the new system. If people continue to express money values in the old currency at the same time as the new system is operating there will be a tremendous attraction to continue working in the old currency. This should be avoided where possible.

In dealing with the changeover period, I should like to comment on the work of the Irish Decimal Currency Board. Lectures have been given and explanatory notes have been circulated throughout the country and they have been of help to business people. However, I think the ordinary people do not know how the new system will work and this is a serious matter. In particular, old people will have much trouble in dealing with the new currency and very little has been done to inform the older sections of the community of the working of the new currency. I agree with the previous speaker that an effective campaign should be waged on television from now until decimal currency day to explain clearly the workings of the new system. It will take old people quite some time to become acquainted with the new coinage and I am not satisfied that enough is being done in this direction. I am sure the Minister will take steps to correct the position because it is just as important that the ordinary person should be acquainted fully with the new system as it is in the case of the businessman. I do not wish to criticise the work of the Decimal Currency Board. It is doing a fair enough job but it is only getting across to a small section of the population. More measures should be taken before decimal currency day to ensure that everyone understands the changeover.

Section 2 (1) of the Bill states:

A bill of exchange or promissory note drawn or made on or after decimal day shall be invalid if the sum payable is an amount wholly or partly in shillings or pence.

I consider the provisions of this section too harsh and I think that during the changeover period dual currency should be allowed to operate not only for cash but also for bills of exchange and promissory notes. I would ask the Minister to reconsider this matter. I do not think we can expect ordinary people immediately to stop thinking in terms of pounds, shillings and pence and change over to pounds and new pence. It is not fair or reasonable and I think the Minister should amend this section to allow a changeover period during which the dual currency could function. I appreciate it is important that we change over as quickly as possible but there is a valid argument in favour of allowing dual currency so far as cash, cheques, bills of exchange and promissory notes are concerned.

I should like the Minister to indicate to the House what measures are being taken to ensure that unnecessary price increases will not take place in the changeover to the decimal currency system. The smallest denomination in the new system will be ½p which has a value in present-day currency of 1.2d. This is nearly three times the value of the old ½d which has been used for business purposes up to quite recently. It is a major step to introduce a new minimum value coin nearly three times that of the old coin. While I admit it is an indication of inflation and changing values, I think it will cause a certain amount of price increases which in ordinary circumstances would not be justified. The Minister is entitled to take measures to ensure that traders, professional people or anyone else do not take undue advantage of the situation.

I should like to comment on the Schedule, which refers to the method of calculating the amount in new pence corresponding to an amount in shillings and pence. It is slightly inaccurate from the point of view of values, and I suppose this is unavoidable. While it is not accurate in respect of the old currency, I see the need for it; and in so far as it is used as a key to a number of sections in the Bill, I think it is fair.

I note that the amount of legal tender in the new currency has also been changed. For the purpose of the new currency the amount of legal tender which can be offered in silver has been increased substantially. I would like to know the reason for this and whether there is any argument in favour of it. I have laid before the House a number of valid arguments to which I would like the Minister to reply.

There are so many arguments in favour of decimalisation that one cannot, without being dishonest, attempt to argue that we should not change. Both Britain and this country made a bad mistake, if they propose to enter the EEC, because within the EEC the £ is not a unit of currency. It would have been far more realistic, when changing currency, to change to something which would not be confusing. It is all right saying that we can explain the difference between the new halfpenny and the old halfpenny and the new penny and the old penny. It is very difficult to explain that to an old person who has been using pennies for 60 or 70 years and recognising their value. It is difficult to explain to such a person that the penny now has a different value. This is something that will not be accepted easily. The situation has become confusing. I do not see any reason at all, except for the fact that the British stuck to the penny, why we should have called our new coins pennies or why our new system should be based on a system of pence at all. It would have been more realistic to have attempted to introduce some new names. I have heard many queer names for the new pennies already.

We hear much from the Government and from successive British Governments about entering the EEC. I am informed by somebody who deals with finance in the EEC that it is proposed, if at all possible, to have a standard European currency by 1980. How can we say that we are interested in smoothing the path towards the EEC if, in effect, we make things more confusing by introducing new currency now, knowing that it means, of necessity, changing if there is to be a standard European currency by 1980? When one thinks of the value of the Belgian and French francs one wonders how they are going to become one currency. The matter becomes even more confusing than it is.

This is a very strong argument against the system of pence and pounds which is to be used. We should have decided, whether Britain wants it or not, to call our coins by different names. It would have assured that Irish coins would operate in Ireland instead of having, as we have had for years, a system of acceptance of Irish and English coins. We hear the Irish Irelanders shouting about the fact that Irish coins will not be accepted in Britain while British coins are accepted freely here. If they were really sincere about this they could have changed the situation by having different names for our coins.

My colleague, Deputy Liam Kavanagh, has made such a good job of dealing with this Bill that I do not propose to detain the House very long. The Deputy did an excellent job and brought out practically all the salient points in the Bill. There are one or two points which I wish to raise. I would be glad if the Minister would answer them. Recently the postage on letters has been increased to 9d. Would the Minister say if the increase to 9d was simply for the purpose of fitting in with the new coins? The increase did not seem justified under any other heading. The Minister said in his statement on 23rd July, 1970:

It is sometimes suggested that the changeover to decimal currency will give rise to an overall increase in price levels. There is no foundation for this. Many prices will not be affected at all by the changeover to decimal currency. There will be no reason to alter the prices of articles costing £1, £2, £3 and so on because the £ will not change. Similarly, the prices of articles costing 6d or any multiple of 6d will be exactly convertible because 6d is worth exactly 2½ new pence.

Does the Minister tell us now that there will be no increase in telephone charges from a public coin box? Does he say that the boxes will be constructed so as to take 2½ new pence for a phone call as at present or can we take it that it is proposed to increase the telephone charges so that one of the larger coins will fit the boxes? Is it again proposed to change the coin boxes? We have just spent a great deal of money changing these boxes. Is it proposed to change the coin boxes in the telephone kiosks again so that some of the new coins will fit thereby increasing the cost of the calls and the revenue to the Government? Somebody has remarked to me this morning that not alone will the telephone coin boxes be affected but other coin slots will be affected and changes will have to be made even in public toilets where the penny has been in operation for a long time.

I agree with those who say that enough work is not being done to try to familiarise the people of this country with the system of decimal currency. I give great credit to the B & I who have introduced a marvellous decimal currency calculator and to other firms who have done likewise. With the approach of Christmas, when new calendars are issued, it would be an excellent idea for firms who have not already decided on the type of calendars to be issued, to include in the calendars some type of calculator. Perhaps they might not be quite as good as this calculator which I have in my hand which is designed for the person who wants to find out the new value at two glances. He has only to alter the level in order to get one price transferred to another. It should be possible to familiarise the public with this changeover. It will be a big changeover.

The issue of this Irish Decimal Monthly is a good idea for those who go to the trouble of reading it. It gives a lot of useful information, and many a laugh. In the November, 1969, copy there is a heading in a picture of a shop window “All prices rounded down” and the owner of the shop is seen with a halo over him. If he reduces his prices he will be entitled to a halo because he will be the only one in the country who will reduce prices. Underneath the picture is the following:

Said the devoted owner of a shop "To serve the public well it is my aim

On Decimal Day my prices I will drop

Wherever I can't leave them just the same.

No single little price will I let rise. With smaller profit margins I'll make do.

But whisper soft; on me there are no files.

The pay-off will come soon, I'm telling you!

The word will soon get round how fair I am.

My cash-flow will increase by leaps and bounds.

Soon with my bread and butter I'll have JAM!

Soon will my well-earned New Pence turn to POUNDS!"

The Minister is also entitled to a halo if he is so innocent as to think that there will be a reduction in prices. It is all right advising shopkeepers that they should not overcharge and that they should try to level off-that if they take a little extra from one customer they will give the article at a little less to the next customer. The Minister knows that is not in accordance with human nature and shopkeepers are human, whether we admit it or not. It is more likely that 99 per cent of them will increase the price up to the next coin.

There is another possibility, and the Minister said earlier it was not likely to happen or that it could be avoided. In the past, when there were small tax increases, the increase was by an old halfpenny. In future the lowest tax increase will be by the new halfpenny, which is approximately three times the amount of the increase under the old system. There is not a thing we can do about that.

Earlier, I made the comment when talking about the new coins that it is rather a pity one animal was not included which I felt the previous Minister for Finance would have been attached to — of course we know that on one occasion at least he was detached from it. I refer to the horse. I thought the former Minister would have included on one of the new coins the horse, which had been on the defunct half crown. There is a reason for that comment. For instance, the design on the 50 new pence coin had been on the old farthing and there did not therefore seem to be any valid reason why the new 10 pence coin, the nearest to the old half crown, should not bear the design of the horse. It would have been a very nice gesture.

One other point about our coins was brought to my attention recently by a comment made to me, and it indicates how there can be a mix-up about them in foreign countries. I was talking to a well-known personality from Sweden. He was looking at one of our new coins, and having turned it backwards and forwards and looked at the harp half a dozen times, he said to me: "Oh, Guinness, she is on everything". Of course, the comment was not appropriate, but the fact that the Guinness harp design on the beer bottle is different from the harp which represents this country can very easily escape the attention of outsiders.

It is pointing the other way.

Unless one is a student of coins and beer one might miss that point. I am not making these comments in order to be awkward or to embarrass the Minister. I believe what has been done about our new coins had to be done because decimalisation had to come. Indeed it is a pity it was not done years ago because then a lot of failures in mathematics might have been avoided. Whatever else the Minister may do, I hope he will not insist on this changeover schedule being adhered to too rigidly. There will be difficulties which can be annoying and nagging particularly in regard to cheques. We will all have our difficulties with cheques issued during the bank strike.

What did the Deputy expect?

The banks will naturally try to get more than they are entitled to. If the banks are told they are entitled to refuse to accept a cheque that refers to a coin which was not current at the time of issue, it will mean that the very odd bank official who has got into the habit of being short with the public will try to make things awkward. I suggest it would have been better if a provision had been written into the Bill to the effect that if the cheque had not been written in the new decimal currency the bank would have the right to pay at the next lowest or the next highest sum in respect of small cheques. It would mean the avoidance of a great deal of unpleasantness. Perhaps the Minister would consider this point before the Bill comes up for final consideration.

I will not be satisfied if the Minister gets up and tells me there have been courses, lectures and references on television and radio in regard to the new currency. After all, it is the biggest change that has taken place in this country in the last 50 years, affecting, as it does, everybody in the country. Those of us who are still young enough will be able to calculate these things easily without mechanical aids but it will be difficult for old people and ill people to do so, particularly those not in the habit of handling a lot of loose change. For that reason, an appeal should be made not only to the Government Departments concerned but, for instance, to firms who issue calendars and such things to have included in their issues simple explanations of the changeover which can easily be assimilated by everyone. B & I and other firms have done this.

I make a particular appeal to the Minister in regard to public telephone boxes. This is an important matter and it is not an answer to say that telephone coin boxes will be left as they are for a period. If they are left as they are and then the sixpence goes out, as it must, considerable inconvenience will be caused.

A peculiar difficulty has arisen through the disappearance of the half crown, of which the Minister may know. Certain charities make collections and the contribution of certain people usually was a half crown. Now those people put the new 10 pence coin into the donation boxes and this has caused a considerable drop in the collections of those charities. I am not blaming the Minister for this. I am merely pointing out that something which appears to be in the interest of everybody can affect those who should not normally be affected by the change.

A number of points have been raised with which I shall endeavour to deal. First of all, let me refer to the choice of system that we are using. This was referred to by Deputies Donegan and Kavanagh. Deputy Donegan suggested that the system should have been based on the florin while Deputy Kavanagh would have favoured a system based on 10s. All of us have our own personal preferences and reasons as to why we prefer one system to another but I think the Deputies were simply expressing their personal preferences in this matter. I do not believe they wish to make an issue of this point at this stage because, of course, legislative backing for the pound, new penny system was given in the Decimal Currency Act of 1969.

However, I confirm that the Government's decision to introduce the pound, new penny system was taken after very careful consideration of the various alternatives. I would remind the House that in June, 1967, the Department of Finance issued a booklet which summarised the case for and against each of the decimal currency systems which it would be possible to adopt in this country. This was intended to give an opportunity for the submission of considered views prior to the decision by the Government. The weight of opinion which included that of nearly all representative organisations favoured the introduction of the same system as will be in operation in Britain and in Northern Ireland on and from 15th February next.

There were a number of arguments for and against but, in accordance with the weight of opinion, the Government decided in favour of adopting the same system as Britain and Northern Ireland. The Government regarded the adoption of this course as being less inconvenient and less costly than the introduction of a different system.

The question was raised as to the effect of decimalisation on prices. Obviously this is a matter which is a cause for concern. On introducing the Second Stage I explained that there are quite a number of areas where there is no need for worry in this regard because, in the case of the pound, there is no conversion to be done, and in other cases a direct conversion is possible. The difficulty arises where there is not a direct conversion possible from the existing system to the new system. The new halfpenny conversion table recommended by the Decimal Currency Board has been worked out so as to endeavour to be fair to both the shopkeeper and the customer. In certain cases it results in a slightly higher charge than at present but in other cases the charge is slightly lower on the basis of the conversion that is involved. Of course, as Deputy Tully said, shopkeepers, like everybody else, are human and some of them will be tempted to avail of certain opportunities that will arise. I suppose it would be unrealistic to think that of those who are tempted none will succumb to the temptation.

There will be very few haloes.

The Deputy may have missed the point of that little rhyme he quoted which was not to suggest that shopkeepers could be expected to reduce their prices all round but rather to suggest that the shopkeeper with a little imagination could put it across that he was doing so. It would not do his business any harm.

It was done in the case of turnover tax — no turnover tax charged.

The problem will not be as great as one might apprehend. One of the problems which was referred to here relates to very small items. The box of matches was the classical example given. In items of this kind, there will be changes in the quantity as has happened in the past. Where there is a change in quantity or where there should be a rounding-up or rounding-down and where there might be abuse, the question arises as to what safeguards the public can have against such abuse. The main safeguards which the public can have are, in most areas, the force of competition and the alertness of the public in detecting this kind of operation and objecting to it. If necessary, the public should report it to the prices control section of the Department of Industry and Commerce one of whose duties would be to ensure there is no widespread abuse of the changeover to decimalisation which would enable additional charges to be levied.

Deputy Tully referred also to the difficulties that will be experienced by old people. This is a valid point and one of which we are very conscious. The Deputy might be interested to know that both the Legion of Mary and the Society of Saint Vincent de Paul have agreed to co-operate with the Decimal Currency Board in helping to prepare old people and disabled people for the changeover.

Would it not be possible for the Department of Social Welfare to put a conversion table on pension books?

Everybody will be supplied with a conversion table but even with that, the kind of people Deputy Tully had in mind will have difficulty. There is obviously a limit to what we can do but the measure I have mentioned is at least one move in that direction.

The question of coin-operated telephone boxes was also raised. I understand the position to be that these will be converted to take the one and two penny bronze decimal coins. The specific charges in decimal currency have not yet been announced but the Department of Posts and Telegraphs will convert their charges equitably as to their overall effect. In other words, the aim will be to ensure they do not derive additional revenue by virtue of decimalisation.

The temptation will be very great.

What about postage stamps?

I can only say that I have said already—that they will not be aiming to ensure a greater revenue merely for the reason of decimalisation.

If it is incidental to it that is all right. Would the Minister not consider issuing tokens which can be bought, as they do in some countries?

Well, the Deputy will appreciate that this is not my direct responsibility.

I have no doubt that consideration has been given to this. I should also say that reference was made earlier, and I think Deputy Collins mentioned it, to the postal charges. I want to assure the House that there was one reason and one reason only for the increase to 9d and that was that it was necessary in order to enable the Post Office to work without a deficit, taking one year with another, which is what they always had to do.

That is hardly fair because the Minister knows that the reason given was that it was to pay for increases in the wages of the workers——

That is right.

——but that does not operate in any other Government service. You are picking out one and saying they must do it but everybody else will get the money from the Exchequer. That is a type of discrimination in which the Minister should not indulge.

What other Department has the Deputy in mind?

Every other Department are paid their increases and nobody says, "Oh, you are raising charges."

No, the post office have always had to operate on the basis, taking one year with another, of paying their way. This has always been the position and if we were to depart from that we would get back to the point of the Exchequer subsidising the operations of the post office. Successive Governments have set their faces against that for good reasons. Once that is so you are faced with the situation that arose recently. It is not a question of singling out the workers in the post office but the post office of their nature are singled out as distinct from other Government Departments.

What is the 9d postage going to be now—9.6p? Another increase?

I do not know precisely what the Department intend to do.

7.2p for phone calls and 9.6p for postage.

I think it is fourpence. You have already done that. You did that well.

I think the same principle will operate and that is that increased revenue merely by reason of decimalisation will not be aimed at.

Just security.

There will be included in the booklet which is to be sent to every household a copy of the shopping conversion table. I think that should meet the point raised by Deputy Tully. The increase in legal tender limits referred to by Deputy Collins is taking place because we have to bring them into line with present day conditions and to take account of the higher values of the new coins.

A number of Deputies referred to the changeover period. Indeed, the suggestion was made that we should allow, during the changeover period, for cheques to be written in either the old or the new currency. First of all, let me say, in regard to the changeover period in general, that in deciding when the changeover should end full regard will be had to the progress of businesses in making the change and adequate time will be allowed to businesses who may have been somewhat tardy in starting on their preparations. The reason why cheques must be drawn in decimal currency as from decimal day is that it simply would not be practicable for the banks to work in the old and the new currencies at the same time having regard to the volume of their financial transactions.

The publicity of the Decimal Currency Board will make this very well known to the public, that as and from decimal day cheques to be legally valid must be written in decimal currency. The House will appreciate that cheques written before decimal day in pounds, shillings and pence will be valid even though presented for payment afterwards but they will be converted in accordance with the table to decimal currency. The problem which arises and to which Deputies referred, relates to cheques written in pounds, shillings and pence after decimal day. As I have said, the public, long before decimal day, will have been made well aware that such cheques are legally invalid and furthermore the banks will certainly use their discretion in ths matter in the same way as they have to do every year in the New Year. For quite a while after 1st January lots of people date their cheques for the year before instead of the current year. It is an inadvertent thing which lots of people do and the banks use their discretion in this. The position is that legally these cheques are not valid but in actual practice this does not present a major problem. I think the same situation is likely to arise where you will have people inadvertently writing in pounds, shillings and pence. There is no reason to anticipate that this is going to be a major problem.

Just incidentally, Deputy Tully said that he had been told that it was hoped to have a common European currency by 1980. While I am aware of this aim I am not at all sure that it is likely to be achieved but anyway the aim is concerned rather more with achieving fixed parities than merely a common currency. I want to make one point very clear and that is, despite the prolonged closure of the banks plans are well in hand for the effective co-operation by the banks in the national changeover. There is no question of postponing decimal day and despite the additional difficulties involved because of the prolonged bank closure there is no reason to believe it will not operate smoothly.

There has been some criticism based on the belief that the publicity activities of the Decimal Currency Board have not been effective as regards the general public. I would like to make it quite clear, as I think I did when introducing the Second Stage, that while it was intended that there should be a certain amount, and there has been a certain amount, of publicity directed at the general public it was planned that the main onslaught of the publicity as far as the general public were concerned would be in the six weeks preceding decimal day. The reason for this was that to start earlier could well lead to confusion and possibly to the situation that having put across your message it would be forgotten again. The aims of the board's publicity have been, in the first place, to stimulate timely preparations in trade, commercial, professional and other sectors and then secondly to familiarise the general public with the new system and with the changeover period aspects.

In regard to the first aim the board have paid special attention to the 35,000 retail establishments of which a large proportion are small shops. The board has held special talks for traders in 140 towns. It has sent publications and advice by direct mail. They have arranged extensive advertising in press, journals and on radio. All these measures were needed to ensure that no one sector would lag behind. The publicity will be intensive in the six weeks preceding 15th February next. An explanatory booklet with the household conversion table will be delivered to each of the 687,000 households in the State. All publicity media will be used. The publicity must explain clearly the decimal currency system and must also set out clearly the special aspects of shopping in the changeover period during which both the sterling and decimal currency systems will be legal. It is necessary to be sure that all sections of the public understand all the facts. Failure to ensure that the public is well informed would be to risk considerable confusion in the daily transactions which will be taking place. The cost of this changeover is virtually impossible to estimate. Many of the costs involved are not measurable. These include such things as staff training, revision of systems and procedures.

As regards business machines, many of the old ones would have had to be replaced anyhow. As regards the Decimal Currency Board, the overall cost, from June, 1968, until shortly after decimal day, is expected to be about £330,000. The bulk of this expenditure is on publicity. The balance will be for accommodation, staff costs, travelling and so forth. Despite what Deputy Kavanagh said, I do not think that seems to be an unreasonably high figure having regard to the job that is being done and the job that has to be done and the cost of advertising today.

By and large, it seems to me that the Decimal Currency Board has been doing an excellent job. I am quite confident that its activities are likely to lead to as smooth a changeover as it is possible for any country to achieve.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 11th November, 1970.
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