asked the Minister for Finance when he will approve payment of an ex gratia pension to widows of former members of the Garda Síochána; if he is aware of the sense of injustice suffered by such widows because they have been deprived of ex gratia pensions which have been paid to other State widows since October, 1969; and if he will make a statement in the matter.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Garda Síochána Widows.
26.
I would refer the Deputy to my reply to previous questions on this matter on 29th October, 1970. Any scheme of ex gratia payments to widows of members of the Garda Síochána depends on the outcome of the negotiations, presently proceeding under the Garda conciliation and arbitration scheme, in relation to the introduction of a new contributory widows' and children's pension scheme for serving members of the force.
How can the Minister say that the payment of an ex gratia pension is dependent on negotiations now proceeding in relation to pensions for people who are now serving? Would the Minister agree in principle to the payment of an ex gratia pension to Garda widows on the understanding that the amount thereof will be determined as soon as negotiations have been completed?
The amount of the ex gratia pension in this case would bear a relationship by way of a fraction to the pension payable under the scheme for serving members and, as I have indicated, decisions on this cannot be made until negotiations have been completed. I am anxious to have these negotiations completed as soon as possible.
Are we to understand it is only a question of the amount and that, in fact, Garda widows will receive a pension and the amount will be determined by the amount paid to serving members?
I cannot put it further than I have at this stage.
The Minister is either going to give it or he is not going to give it. If the Minister is going to give it surely he can say, "Yes, in principle"?
I cannot put it any further than I have.
Am I to understand that the Minister may not be going to pay Garda widows although all other State pensioners have received or will receive State pensions? Why will the Minister not confirm or deny that Garda widows are going to get this pension?
If the Deputy wants to speculate that it is not going to be given he is free to do so.
I am not going to allow the Minister to be mischievous.
All a Minister can say is that he would prefer not to say any more than he has said.
The Minister is indicating that he is going to distinguish between Garda widows and all other State pensioners — that is the only effect of the Minister's reply.
I invite the Deputy to say that as loudly as he can.