Vol. 250 No. 9
I move : "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
I do not think there is any necessity for me to say very much about this. The Bill conforms with the request of the Committee of Public Accounts and Deputies will note it is limited in its operation to that Committee in the carrying out of the functions referred to by Resolution of the Dáil on 1st December. I think it covers the purpose for which the Committee requested assistance from the House.
This Bill, as the Minister says, meets the defects which the Public Accounts Committee found to exist in the procedure. When the matter was discussed earlier the Minister gave an undertaking on behalf of the Government that all official documents and any necessary assistance from official sources would be freely given to the Committee. There is, however, one point that was not adverted to on that occasion, I think. Under the Official Secrets Act a person who may appear as a witness before this Committee and who held any official position might, in accordance with the provisions of the Official Secrets Act, refuse to disclose the information at his disposal or produce documents, if such existed, and perhaps the Minister will indicate now that, if necessary, the appropriate Minister or Ministers will authorise any such person or persons who were under the control of respective Ministers to disclose that information to the Committee. Otherwise, certain sections of the Official Secrets Act, particularly section 4 in Part II, might be invoked in order to refuse to disclose information to the Committee.
Minister to conclude.
As Deputy Cosgrave says, the point he has raised about the Official Secrets Act has not been adverted to heretofore. I would have to examine the implications of what he has said. I can only repeat—I elaborated in earlier discussions on the attitude of the Government to this inquiry-that the Government do not intend to place any unnecessary obstacle in the way of the investigation of this matter by the Committee of Public Accounts.
A Cheann Comhairle, both Deputy Keating and I on the last occasion this matter was before the House pointed out to two Deputies, one in the Fianna Fáil Party, the Minister for Finance, and the other in the Fine Gael Party, Deputy Garret FitzGerald——
Sir, I was concluding.
I am putting the question "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."
The Minister got up. I assumed someone else might make a contribution.
The Deputy may raise his point on the Committee Stage, if he wishes.
I paused for a while and the Ceann Comhairle called on me.
The Deputy may put a question.
Why were Deputy Keating and I not listened to on the last occasion this matter was before the House? We spoke in the plainest fashion: we pointed out that this would not resolve the matter it is attempted to resolve and we gave the reasons. No attention was paid to what we said, whereas there was a long discussion across the floor of the House by two Deputies, one in Fianna Fáil and the other in Fine Gael.
My recollection is that the Labour Party suggested that this investigation should be done by a Select Committee and I pointed out that such a Committee would be in exactly the same position as the Committee of Public Accounts.
Hear, hear.
In fact, the report of the Committee points out that, although the Committee has been advised that it enjoys absolute privilege, the constitutional provisions may bear differing interpretations as to whether privilege attaches to the documents of the Committee before their presentation to the House, and so on; in other words, there is good reason to believe that the Committee has privilege. The provision in this Bill is merely to remove any doubt which exists. In regard to the calling of witnesses, it is something which may not arise. I can see the logic of the Committee's approach that, if it will have to come to the House at some later stage in regard to the calling of witnesses, it would be better to deal with the matter at the one time.
The words used by Deputy Corish in his comment on this were that a Special Committee of the House should be set up which should have the powers asked for.
They could not have the powers.
Of course they could.
