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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 24 Feb 1971

Vol. 251 No. 13

Local Government Services (Corporate Bodies) Bill, 1971 [Seanad]: Second Stage.

Tairgim: Go léifear an Bille anois don Tarna h-Uair.

'Sé cuspóir an Bhille ná cumhacht a thabhairt don Aire Rialtais Áitiúil chun comhlachtaí corpraithe a bhunú le seirbhísí a sholáthar don Aire féin agus d'údaráis áitiúla. Tá géar ghá leis an mBille agus iarraim ar an Dáil é a ritheadh go luath.

As I have said, the purpose of this short Bill is to enable the Minister for Local Government to establish by order, from time to time, corporate bodies to provide specified services for himself and for local authorities. In its present form, the Bill was passed by the Seanad on 10th February, having been introduced in that House some weeks earlier. A similar Bill was introduced in this House in July last but this was withdrawn on 27th January last, so as to enable the Bill to be introduced in the Seanad.

The immediate need for a power to establish corporate bodies to provide services for local authorities arises from representations by trade unions and staff associations on the one hand, and the county and city managers on the other, about the impracticability of operating the present Local Authority Conciliation and Arbitration Scheme in a satisfactory manner in present circumstances. At present, the managers as a group—who constitute the official side under the scheme—cannot provide themselves with the staff and other facilities they require for the purpose of examining salary and wage claims and engaging in prompt and meaningful negotiations with the staff side. It is essential that action should be taken to provide the facilities required by the official side. Effective steps cannot, however, be taken without legislation and, for this reason, the present Bill was introduced.

Although the immediate need for the legislation stems from the necessity to establish a particular body, the Bill is framed in general terms so that it can be used to establish bodies to provide other services for local authorities, or for the Minister, if this is found to be necessary or desirable. While no decisions have yet been made to provide other services for local authorities by corporate bodies, it would be a pity not to avail of the opportunity of making general statutory provision to enable other services to be made available in this way if the need should arise.

The Bill is a relatively simple and straightforward one. It is based, to a large extent, on the Health (Corporate Bodies) Act, 1961, under which corporate bodies may be established to perform functions in, or in relation to, the provision of health services.

Section 3 (1) is the key provision in the Bill—it is this subsection which confers the power to establish corporate bodies by order. The effect of section 2 is that such bodies may be established only to provide services for the Minister, or for local authorities within the meaning of the Local Government Acts, or health boards. However, under section 3 (3), a corporate body, once established for the purpose I have just mentioned, will be able to make its services available, on agreed terms, to other bodies, provided that these are designated by the Minister by order under section 3 (2). Examples of the kinds of bodies which might be designated are vocational education committees, county committees of agriculture, boards of conservators of fisheries, harbour authorities and corporate bodies established under the Health (Corporate Bodies) Act, 1961. The power to designate would be used only if the body in question sought the services of the corporate body and, when the designation is made, it would be for the corporate body and the designated body to agree whether the services should be provided, the extent to which they should be provided and the terms and conditions that would govern their provision, including the making of an appropriate charge.

Section 4 sets out the kinds of provisions which may be included in establishment orders; these relate to administration, finances, membership, staffing and so on. On staffing, I might mention that provision is made for applying, in appropriate cases, the Local Appointments Commission machinery and the Local Government (Superannuation) Acts. In so far as finances are concerned, the House will appreciate that this is a matter which will have to be considered separately in each case. Provision is made, however, for grants, for levies on local authorities and for the charging of fees, so that a suitable method can be selected in each case. I should mention here that I gave an undertaking in the Seanad, which I now repeat, that provision will be made in each establishment order requiring the accounts of a corporate body to be laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas.

Section 7, in addition to providing for the laying of every order made under the Act before each House of the Oireachtas, requires a copy of every order to be sent to each Member of each House as soon as possible after it is made. There is also provision for annulment within seven sitting days after presentation. These provisions are similar to those of the Health (Corporate Bodies) Act, 1961. They will apply to establishment orders, designation orders under section 3 (2), amending orders under section 3 (8), and revoking orders under section 5.

In other legislation the period during which a resolution for the annulment of a statutory instrument may be moved is 21 sitting days. Deputies will appreciate, however, that if a corporate body established for a particular purpose is to get on with its job, it cannot do so if the threat of dissolution by reason of annulment of the relevant establishment order is hanging over it for the long period which might be represented by 21 sitting days. Under the proposed procedure, the making of the Order will have been brought immediately to the notice of every Member. In these circumstances, I am confident that the House will agree that the period of seven sitting days is not an unreasonable time in which to allow a Member to move to secure annulment if he wishes to do so.

The Bill is not intended to interfere in any way with, or detract from, the powers of local authorities, nor is it a move towards centralisation. Its sole object is to enable suitable machinery to be established to make available to local authorities certain kinds of services which, of their very nature, need to be organised on a countrywide basis or which, for one reason or another, cannot be provided by local authorities individually. The procedure proposed for establishing corporate bodies is a convenient, speedy and cheap one. Moreover, it will ensure that the Dáil and Seanad, and individual Members will be kept informed of the establishment of any corporate bodies and that the Oireachtas will, in the last analysis, have control over the establishment of such bodies.

The powers which the Bill would confer are urgently required so as to enable the Local Authority Conciliation and Arbitration Scheme to operate more efficiently and more expediously. Accordingly, I would commend the Bill to the House and ask that it be dealt with as quickly as possible.

We have no objection to this Bill. In fact, anyone who read the debate in the Seanad would realise that it would be repetitious to address remarks on this matter to the Minister, because most of the questions that might be asked were answered in the Seanad. I welcome the use of the Seanad for this purpose—and I am sure this view is shared by other Members. Non-contentious Bills can be introduced and dealt with in the Seanad, perhaps in a better atmosphere than here, and in this way we can ensure that some progress is made towards getting legislation through the Houses of the Oireachtas.

Because of the events of the past 12 months, which topic I do not wish to introduce into this non-contentious piece of legislation, the amount of legislation that has not been dealt with is colossal. Failure to enact legislation has meant that in many cases the livelihood of people has suffered to a great extent. I welcome the fact that this Bill, and the previous Bill dealt with in this House, were introduced in the Seanad.

I find one slightly amusing aspect to this Bill, namely, where there is reference to town commissioners. The White Paper issued by the Minister will take care of some of them—if not all of them. Therefore, town commissioners might be excluded from the Bill.

Debate adjourned.
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