asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will approve contributory old age pension applications where applicants entered insurance before reaching the age of 60 and had more than an average of 24 contributions annually from the time they entered insurance until attaining 70 years.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Contributory Old Age Pensions.
19.
Under the Acts and Regulations already in force a person who entered insurance before reaching the age of 60 and has had a yearly average of 24 contributions paid or credited may, subject to having a minimum of 156 paid contributions, be awarded an old age (contributory) pension on attaining 70 years. The maximum rate of pension is payable where the yearly average of contributions paid or credited is 48 or more. Pensions at reduced rates are payable where this average is less than 48 but not less than 24.
Would the Minister not agree that there is justification for changing the regulation and that, instead of taking the period from some date in 1953 to the present time for determining the number of contributions an insured person had in that period, you would take his lifetime of insurance from the first day he entered insurance and if he had more than 24 contributions per year over that period then grant him his contributory pension? The Minister knows what I have in mind.
I think the present method of calculation is fairly generous.
Does the Minister think it right that a man who enters insurance at 59 years of age and has three years paid contributions qualifies for a contributory old age pension while a man who had 35 years contributions but who changed over to self-employment does not qualify? Surely, in justice, a man who has more than 30 years paid-in contributions over the period he was working as a wage earner is entitled to be considered for a contributory pension at least on equal terms with a man who just entered before he reached the age of 60 and qualified since? Will the Minister agree that this should be reconsidered? In the Minister's regulations he has inserted some date in April, 1953——
Questions to continue. This is a long speech on social welfare administration. Question No. 20.
Will the Minister agree to have a look at that?
We have time and again looked at this. We cannot avoid having anomalies. Sometimes people think that insurance is something which should always guarantee one payment more back over the amount paid in.
No.
People must accept that insurance, whether it is State or private insurance, is only a guarantee against certain contingencies.
But surely a man who has 35 years continuous contributions——
The Deputy has already covered this. The Deputy has said this before.
——should qualify for a contributory pension when a man with one-fifth of that amount qualifies? Surely that is not justice? Why not take the 24 contributions, on average, over his insured lifetime from the day he entered insurance until he retired?
Question No. 20.
May I ask a supplementary question on this? What is the system that the Department are working at the moment in relation to this matter?
I do not know who thought it up in the Department.
The system is calculated to make reasonable provision for those who have——
Why does the Minister not tell the Deputy what the system is?
——a large number of contributions, not cutting out those who have a reasonable number. That is why the 24 average is given so that a reduced rate may be payable to persons who have a fairly good number.
Several have more than 24 contributions.
Question No. 20. The Deputy is taking up the time of the House. There are other Deputies waiting for replies. Question No. 20.
A Cheann Comhairle, the Minister did not answer my question.
The Deputy was not entitled to put any question.
I certainly was. This is my first supplementary question today.
There are other Deputies awaiting replies.
This is my first supplementary question in about a fortnight and I think I am entitled to speak in the House.
The Deputy has no question down.
I asked a supplementary question, as I am entitled to do. The Parliamentary Secretary can keep his mouth shut.
He will if he likes.
He is very given to interrupting me. He will not do that so far as I am concerned and I will show him up very shortly.
Order. Will the Deputy allow questions to continue? Question No. 20.
Would you not, Sir, intrude on the Parliamentary Secretary who interrupted me?
I am trying to get Question No. 20.
What you are doing, Sir, is trying to support the Government at the moment.
No, I am trying to get questions through and support the Deputies who have questions down. Question No. 20.