asked the Minister for Education if he is aware that at least five persons passed the pre-medical examination at UCG in autumn 1970; that they have since been informed that there are no places for them to commence the medical course; that they were not informed that places were not available until they were denied an opportunity of entering one of the other faculties; and whether, in order to avoid hardship, steps will be taken to find places for them in the medical course.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Medical Student Places.
33.
I am informed by the authorities of University College, Galway, that, by public announcement before the beginning of the session 1969-70, and otherwise during the session, it was made clear to students attending the pre-medical course that in the event of all places in the first year medical course, 1970-71, being filled from the summer pre-medical examination, 1970, no places in the first year medical course would be available to those who would pass in the autumn pre-medical examination 1970; that each student eligible to resit the autumn pre-medical examination, 1970, was notified that admission to the examination carried no implication that candidates successful in the examination would be given a place in the first year medical course, 1970-71; that students who passed that examination and who were not given places were granted concessions by the authorities of the college and the university to facilitate their transfer to other faculties; further, that the college authorities have decided that these students will, in the event of their obtaining the BSc degree in 1972 or 1973, be subsequently admitted to the first medical year on application and that the students concerned have been so informed.
The Deputy will appreciate that the conditions and regulations upon which students may be admitted to particular courses of university study are matters which fall entirely and exclusively within the jurisdiction of the appropriate university authorities and that I exercise no function in these matters either generally or in relation to individual cases.
I must add, however, that there could be no question of allowing unrestricted entry to faculties such as medicine where the numbers graduating are already very much in excess of the requirements of the country.
Was the restriction on the number admitted to the faculty due to the fact that there was an arbitrary figure fixed or is it that there is an incapacity to teach more than a certain number of students?
As far as I am aware, there is a number fixed. I am not aware of any other reason.
Could the Minister say on what grounds is the number fixed? Is it to provide graduates for our own needs or is there another rationale for fixing a figure? If young people want to do medicine should they not be permitted to do medicine?
It so happens that it is not fixed in relation to the number we need here. The actual number being turned out each year is far in excess of the number needed. I am not including foreign students in that.
Is it true that these people were not informed in time to transfer to another faculty, if they wished to do so?
The information I have is that a public announcement was made before the beginning of the session in relation to this matter. In fact, the college did its best to facilitate the transfer of students who were not successful.
To any faculty at all or to a particular faculty?
I am not certain but I imagine it would be to a science faculty.
(Cavan): Did I understand the Minister to say there is a surplus of doctors in this country? Surely the Minister is aware that there is a scarcity of doctors. In many parts of the country it is impossible for a patient to get the services of a doctor, whether the patient pays or does not pay.
What I said was that the number we turn out is far in excess of requirements here.
(Cavan): Would the Minister make it attractive enough for doctors to stay at home and render medical assistance to people who want it because medical assistance cannot be got at the present time?
I do not accept that, but it would be a matter for the Department of Health.
Buck passing?
I do not do that.
The Minister has just done so.
I accept my own responsibilities.
What yardstick is applied in relation to a possible surplus of entrants to the medical schools?
That is a matter for the universities. It is not a matter for me.
Surely it is much more than a matter for the universities. Surely it is a matter of concern to the Minister for Education and the Minister for Health.
It is a matter for the universities to lay down the conditions and regulations in regard to the admission of students to the universities.
The number is reduced this year to 70. It was 80 last year. Has that reduction any relation to the grant of £480 available from the Department of Education?
Not to my knowledge.
The universities receive a grant of £480 in respect of each medical student.
I know the State is paying a very large contribution to the education of every student in the universities irrespective of what faculty he or she happens to be in.
Question No. 34.
Is the Minister aware that the number of places has been reduced from 85 to 74?
I am aware that the number this year is 70. This is a matter for the universities.
I have called Question No. 34 in the name of Deputy Garret FitzGerald. I have called Question No. 34.
Did the Minister approve of the reduction?
Let us accept that we are a small country and our financial resources are limited; we must make the best possible use of them and turning out doctors in excess, as has happened——
This is making an absurdity of university degrees.
The money available could be used to better advantage.
The Minister has admitted it is a departmental matter.
No. I have pointed out it is a matter for the universities.
Is it not a fact that these students were led to expect they would be accepted for the course had the figure accepted for last year been adhered to? It was not adhered to and the matter was not left to the universities because it was determined by the amount of the grant made available by the educational authorities.
That is not correct.
The remaining questions will appear on tomorrow's Order Paper.
You called my question.
It is now 4 o'clock. It is not my fault.