asked the Minister for Justice what precautions are taken to prevent the sale from off-licence premises of cider and other alcoholic drinks to persons under the age of 18 years.
45.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Liquor Sales.
44.
asked the Minister for Justice if his attention has been drawn to a report (details supplied) that cider is being sold indiscriminately to young people with serious consequences; and what action he proposes to take in the matter.
46.
asked the Minister for Justice if his attention has been drawn to the statements attributed to the chairman of the off-licence section of RGDATA regarding the sale of cider and cheap wines to young people; and if he will comment on the matter.
47.
asked the Minister for Justice if he is aware of widespread concern relating to increased alcoholic drinking amongst children under 18 years, particularly the consumption of cider and cheap wines; if he will indicate what action he proposes to take to rectify this situation; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 44 to 47 together.
The statement in question was, according to newspaper reports, made by the chairman of the off-licence section of RGDATA and, while there were some differences in different newspaper accounts, the burden of the statement was that shops holding what are known as sweets licences are responsible for widespread sales of cider to teenagers and that I, as Minister for Justice, was doing nothing about it.
Since then, the main body of RGDATA was reported as having publicly repudiated the statement as being unfounded in fact. Garda information confirms the view of RGDATA that there is no evidence to justify what was said.
The Garda are aware that there is cause for concern in some areas about the drinking of cider by teenagers and that, in a minority of cases, the drink is being bought directly by persons under age but, in these cases, the people responsible are people duly licensed to sell the drink and not those blamed in the recent statement. There is of course a genuine problem for licensees in knowing whether some customers are under age or not but some licensees could do more than they are doing to prevent abuses. For the most part, however, Garda information is that the problem is not caused by the sale of drink directly to people under age but by the fact that older youths who can buy the drink lawfully either in off-licensed premises or in public houses do so and later pass it on to younger companions. This is a problem that is beyond the reach of the law as it stands or, in my view, of any amending legislation that would be likely to be regarded as reasonable or that would be capable of enforcement.
Surely the Minister is aware that cheap wines are being consumed by young people in Dublin? In addition, in a certain area in Dublin firelighters, which contain a high content of methylated spirits, are being mixed with cider and cheap wine. The Minister should come out with a better answer than saying his Department can do nothing to curtail the sale of alcohol to teenagers.
As I have stated in my reply, for the most part the alcohol in question is being sold to people above the legal age limit who pass it on to people under the legal age limit. As the Deputy will appreciate, the Garda can do nothing to prevent that as it is not an offence for someone under the age of 18 years to consume intoxicating liquor. In a number of cases where young people became disorderly as a result of this activity, the Garda arrested and charged them with the appropriate offence. There have been a number of charges against people for selling intoxicating liquor to persons under age but the number of convictions has been significantly less because it is necessary for the Garda to prove that the person who sold the intoxicating liquor was aware that the purchaser was under age.
This might be a matter on which the House could spend some time in regard to any amendments that are necessary.
Would it be possible for the Minister to consider amending legislation to prohibit the consumption of this type of liquor in public places as is done in Canada? The Canadian authorities can control the problem of the consumption of cider and other drinks by teenagers by preventing its consumption in public places, with the exception of public houses or in homes. Would the Minister investigate this possibility? The problem is serious and the Garda have difficulty in trying to control it. Legislation on the lines I have suggested might be of assistance.
The Deputy's suggestion is worthy of consideration and I shall consider it.
Would the Minister consider increasing the age limit from 18 years to 21 years?
No.
If the age limit were increased it would be easier to detect people. Nowadays a 14-year-old can pass for a person of 18 years.
Surely a 20-year-old can pass even more easily for a 22-year-old. I consider Deputy Byrne's suggestion ridiculous.
Is the Minister not aware of the number of very young people in mental hospitals, due mainly to alcoholism? Very many of them are less than 25 years of age.
Raising the age limit to 21 will not stop them drinking alcohol if they wish to do so.
The Minister is doing nothing about this problem.
I am calling Question No. 48.