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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 18 Apr 1972

Vol. 260 No. 3

Private Members' Business. - Waters Preservation Bill, 1972: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

It occurred to me when we broke off last week on this subject that, although we are very conscious of individual items and particular facets of this problem of pollution, we do not, perhaps, look at the fundamental nature of the problem sufficiently. It is important that we should do so for two reasons: one is, naturally, to understand the problem as a whole; and the other is from the point of view of convincing sceptics and go-ahead members of humanity who want to get the job done of the necessity for conservation. From that point of view, it is instructive to try to see basically what the problem is.

We are all laymen as far as this problem is concerned. The first fact we tend to forget is that all life on this planet is confined in a very narrow skin surrounding the surface of the earth. Beneath that skin in the body of the planet there is no life and above it, and out in space, there is no life in our proximity, as visits to the moon seem to have shown—no life comparable to the highly organised life we have on this planet.

The point of importance for us here now is that that life is confined in a very thin shell, the biosphere. It is within that thin skin around the earth that all the life processes take place. That life depends on a whole series of balanced reactions of nature; animal plants, inorganic life, all reacting one on the other in nature's scheme and making it possible for life as we know it to carry on, on the surface of this planet.

In the scheme of things if there is one material substance that is more important than any other—or is at least as important as any other in all this complicated life on the face of the planet—it is water. Water plays an essential part in all the life processes. It plays an essential part in the whole of the environment which supports life. It is a necessity. For that reason alone the conservation of water supplies, and their maintenance in adequate purity for the purposes of nature, is one of the prime requirements for mankind and makes the problem of water pollution a primary problem for every living thing on the face of this earth.

The next fact we have to realise is that nature holds an intricate balance, a wonderful balance, a wonderful equilibrium between a whole host of biological species, biological entities and its inorganic environment, its natural environment on the face of this planet. That balance depends on the reaction of all these biological elements on each other, each controlling the other in a marvellous way.

Anything that upsets that balance is perturbing nature. Within limits, nature can correct it and heretofore she has done so. Because of the pollution of the planet, and particularly the water pollution of the planet, we are now getting to the stage where nature's ability to redress balances and to secure new equilibria to enable the essential life processes to survive is being threatened. In other words, the rate at which man is disbalancing these processes now threatens to become more than nature can cope with. Perhaps this sounds a little bit academic but it is nonetheless a very vital reality.

In the whole evolution of life on this planet the plants, animals, bacteria, the small and the bigger elements in life, like the plants, all grow and evolve together enabling the animals finally, and man, who is in a material way an animal, to survive and prosper on the planet. Man's survival and the survival of animals depended and depend on the balance of plants and microscopic life as well as on the immediate sources of our requirements such as air and food.

While everything was in a primitive state, nature looked after things, but man started to develop nature and brought in his own complications. Perhaps it all started when man began to clear land, to domesticate animals and to take over the surface of the earth more definitely for himself. He did that to his own profit but at a certain cost to nature. In our own time, how many species of animals have been obliterated and are now extinct? How many areas of the planet which were part of nature and which were functioning as part of nature's life symbotic processes have been appropriated to man?

How many species of fish?

This is in our own day. Nature could compensate, and even though some wild animals disappeared, and even though forests were cut down, still man's attack was within the competence of nature to defend herself and to compensate. She still had the oceans. She still had large tracts of land. The bacteria and the other microscopic agents were still relatively free to operate. Although man introduced disbalances they were not fatal either to the balance of nature or to himself. Perhaps, unfortunately, for both nature and man, when nature brought in her compensation, man fought back more. For instance, when man was sparsely scattered over the earth he probably had little trouble with infectious diseases. When he conquered nature to the extent that men could live in large populations diseases became apparent.

The microscopic life of nature asserted itself and to meet this man developed hygiene and medicine. So it was that this battle began and has continued and, perhaps, if the rate of development had been kept to what nature could cope with we should have no cause for worry but, unfortunately, in our time particularly—one might say in this century although the beginnings of the process are deep in the past—it has come to the point where man has so attacked nature that he is beating nature's defences and nature, of itself, is not able to maintain the necessary balances. Therefore, man is now threatening to destroy his own environment and the environment of life on this planet.

That sounds a very alarming statement but it is the view of certain scientists who have studied the problem. It is nothing less than this we are facing in discussing the question of pollution. The motion now before us is fundamental in that it deals with the pollution of the waters which can so upset all the balance of nature as to threaten the survival of all our balances.

Last week I mentioned a point which for the sake of completeness I shall briefly mention again. We breathe air every day: our lives and the lives of similar animals depend on breathing air. We take it for granted. We could not sit more than one minute or so in this Chamber if deprived of air; we would be dead. It is very sobering to think that the air we breathe is taking part in a great cycle: we breathe it and other natural users of oxygen use it in this available form and turn it back into the atmosphere in a non-available form as carbon dioxide or something else but nature has marvellously supplied the counterbalance for the requirements of that kind of life in plant life. Green vegetation and the algae of the sea take in the carbon dioxide, reprocess it to put oxygen back into the atmosphere and we all depend on that process. There exists a life cycle in which the oxygen we breathe takes part and it is vital for the maintenance of that oxygen and, therefore, for the maintenance of our air supply for breathing that green plants and algae in the sea carry out their function of absorbing what we have turned the oxygen into and generating from it the oxygen we require. That is the wonderful, universal process of nature.

We now find that pollution of the water in the sea may so threaten oxygen-producing organisms in it that a very significant inroad may be made on the atmosphere's oxygen supply. Couple that with the frightening thought that in our cities and towns and in many ways all over the earth we are destroying much vegetation which plays a similar part and the reality of the danger becomes apparent. Certainly, the need for control and preserving a balance is easily appreciated. That is one aspect of pollution.

I do not want to deal with the whole matter of pollution except in so far as it is relevant to pollution of water but this happens to be at the heart of the problem and must, therefore, be dealt with. The oxygen cycle is only one example of those wonderful cycles which maintain the balances of nature. There are many others. Our agricultural supplies have been much more dependent than we realised on the action of micro-organisms in the soil, of insignificant things like worms and insects and so on. Microscopic life plays its part in the waters also. They are in sensitive balance. The next problem is that what we are putting into the waters is destroying those forms of life which play a part in the balances just as the pollution in the water tends to destroy the oxygen-producing algae in the seas. Nature is again disturbed here and while we pump pollutants with which nature cannot cope into the waters we make the waters more toxie and we kill off natural agencies or destroy natural cycles that would enable nature to cope with our prodigality.

This is what we are up against. I do not wish to delay the House but without going into very much more detail we have here in the pollution of waters a threat to the whole balance of nature and the cycles that nature maintains to keep the various biological species alive and in being. If these cycles breakdown it means death to these species; if they break down completely it would mean death to living things in the very narrow skin in which life is lived in this planet. This is what we must appreciate is involved. When we appreciate the danger of it, aesthetic considerations, the ugliness of tin cans on the roadside and so on, pale into insignificance compared with the reality of the threat we face in this matter.

What is happening to the waters which are necessary for the maintenance of these life cycles? It is very easy to see broadly what is happening. While nature was well able to cope man dumped all his waste over to nature and nature was able to take care of it: it seems as if we cannot do this much longer. Where else can that waste go? Short of firing it into space in rockets—which would not seem to be economically feasible—we cannot in the long run get rid of our own pollution. What goes into the air stays with us in the biosphere and pollutes the whole cymbiosis of the planets.

What we put into the water stays there and, worse, the pollutants, whether of the air or of the waters, enter into a set of cycles that are counter to nature's life-giving cycles. Some of the gases being put into the air—for instance, carbon dioxide—tax the capacity of the plants and algae in the ocean to deal with them, to process them back to oxygen; but we put in elements that are more noxious. These are sulphur compound and lead fumes. Where do these go? Ultimately, they are washed out and enter the waters. Other waste is being put into sewers and this, in turn, goes into the waters. Even if waste is burned, the produce of the burning goes into the water.

The other day I noticed a heap of rubbish burning near the city. Obviously, it had been saturated with oil so that it would burn. There was a mess of pollution going into the atmosphere from that fire. Of course, all such pollution comes back again and, ultimately, goes into the oceans. For practical purposes, the oceans in the past may have provided a sink of unlimited capacity but even in terms of tonnage, the pollution entering the oceans now is significant but, more than that, the subtle small percentage chemicals that make the difference to life are getting into the ocean in significant quantities and polluting it.

What are the pollutants that we must worry about in respect of the waters? First there are the inorganic poisons, mainly lead, sulphur and mercury. These do not go to the bottom of the sea. Recently some fish were barred from the market because they were found to be contaminated with an unacceptable level of mercury, a poison that can act in very small quantities. The threat from lead poisoning is the same.

Then there are the products from agriculture. In the past farmers and fishermen constituted the link between nature and the sophisticated man in the cities. The farmer produced food in a natural way for the community. In so doing he utilised nature's processes. He used natural fertilisers and the natural bacteria of the soil. The fisherman did not interfere with nature. The amount of fish he took from the oceans and the rivers was not enough to upset the balances and the fish were healthy. Now, however, even the farmer and the fisherman, the very last links of humanity with nature, have found themselves in conflict with nature. The farmer is using artificial manures. Of course, he achieves good results in terms of production. These fertilisers are being pressed on him by industry, but he must use them in concentrations that are threatening the microscopic balance of life in the soil he tills and which are polluting waters and threatening certain forms of life. The farmer, too, is using pesticides that are designed to kill: DDT and chlorinated hydrocarbons of all sorts are being used. Their primary effect is the killing of insects but we do not know yet the extent to which that is significant in influencing nature's balances. Whatever may be the question in that respect, there is no question as to the effect of DDT when it gets into the ocean. Already there is significant pollution of the ocean as a result of that manmade compound, a compound that nature did not develop. The damage is being done by compounds that are being developed against nature. Significant levels of this poison have been found in animal and plant life as far away as the Antarctic Ocean.

The fisherman is now using powered boats and contributing inevitably, with the modern mechanical boat, to oil and other pollutants of the waters. Regarding pesticides, it has been proved that bird life in agricultural countries is being affected seriously, probably because of dressings for seeds. However, we are not concerned here on this Bill with the preservation of bird life, so I shall get back to the question of the waters. Sewage in concentrated loads is being channelled into the sea. Animal sewage in reasonable proportions could be dealt with by nature. Nature has provided bacteria and other chemical and biological agencies for dealing with sewage. The problem in connection with sewage, as in the case of fertilisers, is the high concentration at which it is being put in at local points. Animal sewage pollutes local waters more so than the ocean as a whole because of this concentration. It is not only animal sewage that is being channelled into the waters from households but there are also the detergents and other items that are sold in the supermarket for the convenience of the housewife. Also, industrial waste of all kinds is being channelled in together with sewage. There is also the problem of plastics —something that was not in nature's scheme—and there is the all-pervasive problem of oil.

The pollution that results from oil is more serious than merely a question of dirt in the water. The incident regarding the Torrey Canyon caused much anxiety and there is much talk of the pollution of the seas by commercial oil. Oil covers the surface of the water and that is significant in that it covers the natural biological reactions in the surface layers of the sea which are essential, but the trouble concerning oil is that it goes further than that. Oil happens to be a perfect absorbent for many of the other poisons that we are putting into the waters. It is a very fine vehicle for distributing these poisons over the oceans and also of keeping them in the areas where life is threatened.

The last element I wish to deal with is nuclear waste. There is radioactive waste, highly toxic industrial refuse, chemical warfare gases, and waste from munitions. Anything that people want to get rid of is dumped into the sea. How can mankind cope with this problem? Since man has brought this problem upon himself there is the necessity for using his inventive genius and technology to process this dangerous waste which he has created and which he finds Mother Nature can no longer handle for him. This is not only a social problem but an economic one also. It will involve the whole earth. It cannot be solved in any particular area. There is very little we can do even about the purity of our territorial waters. We can try to keep our beaches clean. The areas around our own shores must be kept clean. We must allow as little pollution as possible into the sea.

As was said last week, we are still in a fortunate position in regard to our water supply as compared with others. Now is the time to take precautions and to exercise strict control. We must be careful of what is allowed into our rivers, streams and lakes. By doing so we will keep our own environment clean. We will preserve life in our own area. We will also help mankind. Such a programme will require monetary assistance. Many economic forces are acting in the other direction. While we have still much unpolluted water, we have all seen the warning signs in the River Liffey, the River Blackwater and some of our lakes. Deputy Sir A. Esmonde and Deputy Carter spoke about these problems. There is the problem of silage and of the discharge from piggeries, to say nothing of the local government problems of waste and of the effects of detergents of one kind or another. We must define the problem in practical terms and decide how to cope with it.

Again I should like to stress that this is not just a local problem. It is not a problem of convenience or aesthetics. It is a problem which we ourselves have created in our own particular way. It is part of a problem which involves the survival of ourselves as well as the survival of the rest of mankind.

Last Saturday week in my home town in the constituency of Carlow/Kilkenny the results of a competition run by the National Waters Conservation Association were announced. I was saddened to see the winning poster with the plea "Let It Live", which won first prize. This was a plea from a young student for the River Barrow in Carlow. The poster portrayed a pipe with a fluid running from it into the river, and two fishing rods. I would like to show that poster in this House tonight but I believe it is against the regulations to do so.

The Deputy can show it to the Minister later.

This is a serious matter, and not one for gimmicks.

One rod caught a kettle and the other one the skeleton of a fish. There were many posters with similar themes. The competition was for students in the age group seven to 17 years. This brought home to me that the young people of today are very conscious of the serious problem of pollution and are asking for a solution to it. It is up to us as legislators to heed the plea of these young people and to ensure that they have unpolluted water in which to swim and fish.

On the 6th May, 1968—I think that is the correct date—the European Waters Charter of the Council of Europe declared that there is no life without water and that it is a treasure indispensable to all human activity.

In this country we have inadequate and archaic laws governing pollution. The penalties for their contravention are also inadequate and archaic. We are in a favourable position to outlaw pollution. Our national waters are wholly under our control and with the co-operation of the people of this island can become a very special place where people can live in pleasant surroundings.

The tourist industry is very much to the forefront today and has been much discussed in this House. In the future, it will repay one hundredfold every effort made to eradicate the pollution of our rivers and lakes, and of the sea. We are trying to attract tourists. The introduction of legislation to deal with pollution should be a priority of the Minister. There are 100,000 anglers in this country. Each year competitions are organised which attract visitors from all over the world. There was an article in the Evening Press on 29th July, 1971, which would make one wonder why such tourists should come. It read:

Thousands of trout, bream, perch and rudd floated dead or dying on the surface of a score of lakes and rivers throughout the country this morning as pollution of Irish waters reached its worst-ever level.

I believe the necessity for centralising responsibility for pollution control has been clear for a long time. Deputy Luke Belton's Bill seeks to do this. Local authorities—and I must confess I am a member of a local authority, the Carlow Council—have been irresponsible to a certain extent in their approach to sewage disposal, and industry has for too long been free from the kind of control this Bill proposes to introduce.

The problem of pollution will become every year more and more expensive to solve. Now is the time to tackle it and to create the natural environment which can be the envy of every country in Europe. Past generations have created city slums. This generation has gone far in destroying natural amenities and turning beautiful lakes and rivers into dumps for sewage and industrial waste. We have our chance here in this House to reverse all this. We owe it to future generations to pass on unashamed a heritage of natural amenities. We can make a beginning with this Bill.

The appeal of the Carlow student poster "Let It Live" was a plea for the River Barrow. It is echoed and reechoed not alone in my own constituency but all over Ireland wherever a river flows or the waters of a lake reflect a family picnic or a fisherman. We have an opportunity in this House to answer the appeal of this youth who was so interested in the River Barrow, which flows through Carlow. I say: let all our lakes and all our rivers live, so that this young schoolboy and all our youth may, as adults, live a life enriched by the natural beauty we have played our small part to preserve. Let me appeal to the Members on every side of this House to give their wholehearted support to this Bill.

I welcome the initiative shown by the Deputies who were responsible for preparing and introducing this Bill. I wish also to thank those who contributed in a commendably reasoned way to the debate. I accept that the Bill is intended as a constructive attempt to solve the water pollution problem which, as Deputy de Valera very ably stated, is a world problem.

The water pollution problem is a very complex one, and while the Bill would throw heavy responsibilities on to local authorities and on to certain private individuals, I have no guarantee that it would achieve its purpose, praiseworthy though that purpose is. It would be a pity to try to combat pollution with the wrong weapons, and I am sure Deputy Belton would agree wholeheartedly with that statement. To do so could seriously jeopardise the prospects of success of the more comprehensive proposals which I hope to bring forward in the House in the not too distant future and to which I referred before.

Before commenting on the provisions of the Bill I should say that a necessary preliminary to the preparation of sound legislation is to secure adequate control, and to secure that control is, first of all, to establish the nature and extent of the problem. Informed policy decisions cannot be taken in the absence of sound information on the facts of the situation. Furthermore, the various aspects of the problem, the administrative, financial and legislative ones are all inter-related, and ultimately the legislation must reflect the conclusions as to what needs to be done and what can be done.

These are some of the main reasons which influenced me already in setting up the Inter-Departmental Working Group on Air and Water Pollution, and, as I have told the House before, this group are examining all aspects of the problem, including the question of legislation. I have received a statement from the working group outlining the progress which they have made to date. While up to the present they have examined the various aspects of the problem which I referred to them, of necessity much of the time that they have spent working on this has been devoted to obtaining and analysing information, reviewing existing procedures for control of pollution and examining various possible lines of action to deal with it. A number of surveys and investigations have been or are being carried out by or for Departments represented on the working group and by semi-State and other public bodies. These include the national survey of rivers by An Foras Forbartha, to which I shall refer later. The report on this survey has not yet been published, but the results have already been available to the group. My own Department is carrying out a comprehensive survey of local authority sewage systems. These will identify systems which are causing pollution in the receiving waters and will give information about the remedial works which should be undertaken in these cases, together with estimates of the cost of these works. It will also produce other relevant information, including details of the population equivalent of industrial wastes accepted into the systems. Another important survey being carried out by my Department covers industries which are liable to give rise to major effluent problems. This survey is designed to obtain information on the nature of the effluents, the planning and other conditions applicable and the system of checks in operation to ensure compliance with the conditions.

Some of the basic information required by the working group has only recently come to hand and other relevant material is not yet available. The group is concerned with air as well as water pollution but, at my request, they are preparing, as a matter of urgency, an interim report dealing with the water pollution aspect. The group expect to produce this report within three to four months.

Is this the group that was to produce a report by last autumn?

Yes, I did express the hope——

The Minister hoped to get it by last autumn.

I did indeed. I am now giving the Deputy a fair assessment of how long it will take to have the report available and I am committing myself to that period of time. This is, I think, reasonable. It is the only thing I can do in the circumstances because the job is both comprehensive and complex. The group will deal with the nature and extent of the whole problem of water pollution, the administrative framework required, including the question of securing co-ordination between the various agencies involved, and also the economic aspects, including capital cost and incentives, the legal framework required, including enforcement powers and penalties, and the need for further research and technical consideration of water quality criteria and standards.

I would ask the House to remember that, without the results of an investigation such as that being undertaken by the working group, it would be unwise to frame legislation to control water pollution. As the Minister who would be responsible for implementing any legislation enacted, I deem it my duty to be satisfied that it is the right legislation and, above all, that it will be effective. I cannot, I am afraid, regard the present Bill as meeting those requirements, however much I endorse the intentions of the proposers.

The Bill proposes that the Minister shall declare standards of purity for all waters, shall then ascertain whether, and to what extent, the waters are being or have been polluted and, if he is satisfied that pollution is occurring, shall require the local authority, or local authorities, concerned to take immediate steps to bring the water up to standard. It proposes to utilise receiving water standards as opposed to effluent standards as the criteria for the protection of waters from pollution.

It also provides that, if pollution is being caused by the acts of a local authority, it must cease such acts within such period as may be specified by the Minister. Similarly, if pollution is being caused by any other person, that person must cease such acts within such period as may be specified by the local authority.

Whether receiving water standards or effluent standards should be selected as the basis for controls, or, as seems more likely, whether some combination of the two is required, is a difficult question and one on which I hope the interdepartmental working group will give advice: but, even if the principle of receiving water standards were adopted, the Bill would leave many problems and, if I may say so, the real practical problems unanswered. For example, our rivers are generally small and not infrequently a number of sources of pollution can occur at close intervals. In the case of organic discharges in particular the maximum depression in stream quality may occur at a considerable distance—in some cases, some miles—downstream of the discharge point. The allocation of responsibility for pollution as defined in this Bill to any single discharge would, therefore, be extremely difficult to prove. It would be virtually impossible in many instances to determine which of a number of discharges upstream of a polluted stretch of river is responsible for the pollution and it would, indeed, be impossible to allocate responsibility between them. Again, it might be that a number of discharges contribute to pollution, but that any one or more of them, without the others, could be safely absorbed by the receiving waters. It would take more than a Solomon to decide under the Bill which of the effluents should cease. Furthermore, the control of sea and estuarine pollution by reference to a prescribed standard for the receiving water raises extraordinary, if not insoluble, problems owing to the difficulty in defining a standard in such circumstances and in allocating responsibility for pollution.

I would suggest that this shows that the Bill is premature in the sense that it precedes the preliminary investigation of all the difficult issues which must be resolved before effective legislation can be produced. The Bill raises many other problems, but it is, I think, sufficient to point out those that seem to present the most basic difficulties.

It is quite likely that there is need for new legislation, but on this question I must reserve my position until the working group have reported and the position can be assessed in the light of fuller information than is available at present. Major issues will arise in any consideration of a new statutory system for the control or management of water resources. We would have to be quite sure, therefore, that any new system was well calculated to suit our particular conditions. A system which seems to work well in another country might or might not work well here. One possibility is—I throw it out as a suggestion—that water boards might be set up to assume responsibility for water control and anti-pollution measures on a river catchment basis. This is the approach in some countries and it has some attractions; it would, however, tend towards a fragmentation and division of responsibility as between local and regional bodies. The question is whether it would solve some problems of co-ordination at the expense of creating others? As an alternative, a new system might be based on the local authority areas with a co-ordinating committee of interests concerned at regional level. It might be that such an arrangement would better enable environmental considerations to be taken into account in basic planning. Clearly, many environmental matters, and questions of air and water pollution particularly, are no respecters of administrative boundaries and cannot be determined entirely on a local basis. Whatever arrangements are decided on will, therefore, have to include adequate provision for co-ordination and direction of all the overall anti-pollution programmes at higher level.

To be effective, new legislation would need to be supported by a complete system of water standards based on suitable criteria. These would have to cover what might be termed the permissible level of pollution in any stretch of water, taking account of the purposes for which the water is needed, and of such complicating factors as local conditions of climate, geography and geology. There would also have to be standards with which effluents to that water would have to comply and such standards would have to be consistent on a national basis and would also have to take account of local conditions. To develop a complete system of this kind will take a great deal of research into such matters as appropriate quality criteria, flow variations, the existing and potential demand for water for various purposes and the self-purification capacity of certain waters.

I would envisage such detailed research being undertaken by An Foras Forbartha as a follow-up to the national water survey it has completed. More detailed studies have already been undertaken in a number of regions. The purpose of this survey was to examine the quality and quantity aspects of Irish rivers. It was carried out at my request by the water resources division of An Foras Forbartha and a national survey has now been completed of 121 of the main rivers, using 765 sampling stations at strategic locations. In most cases both the chemical and biological features of the rivers were examined. A report on the preliminary survey will be published shortly. Basically, it will show that water quality is satisfactory over more than 80 per cent of the total length surveyed; that serious pollution now exists over about 7 per cent and that the condition of a further 10 per cent gives cause for some concern.

I think it is a reasonable assumption that the rivers not covered in the survey are generally in a satisfactory condition though there are no doubt problem stretches in some areas. The report will be a significant addition to our knowledge of the problem we are up against and a valuable basis for future research on the lines I have already referred to.

As I have a copy of the report. I should like to quote briefly from it. It is The National Survey of Irish Rivers, a Report on Water Quality.

Is this report public?

It is not public yet but it will be within the next few days. I shall just read the conclusions. It is a rather long report. I quote:

A total of 2,900 km of river length,

that is roughly 1,812 miles

excluding estuarine waters, was examined in this survey. While this is a small proportion of the total length of freshwater river channel in the country, it represents the more important fraction of this resource both in regard to population distribution and industrial concentration. On the basis of biological examination, the river length surveyed is distributed in three quality classes in the following manner:

It then gives the figures I have already given. The quality rating "satisfactory" was given to 2,400 km, "Doubtful" to 300 km and "Bad" to 200 km, which is roughly 125 miles. It goes on:

Thus some 83 per cent of the river length examined is in a satisfactory condition, while some 17 per cent is less than satisfactory.

In most cases the reaches seriously affected are quite short although on some major rivers the polluted zones extend for a considerable length. However, even a short stretch in which bad conditions prevail may seriously affect fish. It is important to note that major rivers like the Barrow, Clare and Suir, in the catchments of which are some large towns and industries, and which are of prime fishing interest, all show serious deterioration over relatively long stretches. At places conditions are acute on these and other rivers, for example, the Ara, Camlin and Castlebar. It is quite evident that the waste-carrying capacities of these rivers have at times been exceeded.

The survey shows, therefore, that there is significant pollution on some stretches of Irish rivers. Most of the pollution results from the discharge of organic wastes, not necessarily sewage, and in only a few instances were there indications of toxic pollution. With the growth of industrialisation, however, it is perhaps inevitable that toxic pollution will become more widespread. The present survey has identified the polluted reaches of the rivers examined. The next planned step is to study these in depth to define the extent of the problems. Not less important, a continuing check will be kept on the presently clean rivers to ensure that adverse changes are detected.

This booklet will be available to the public some time next week. It contains a very detailed scientific analysis of the biological quality of all the rivers that were examined.

Is it not a pity it was not published a week ago?

We would have liked to read it.

The overall impression given in that report confirms the view I have expressed on previous occasions that the water pollution problem is limited in scale but of sufficient dimension to warrant special attention in view particularly of the prospects of intensified urban, industrial and agricultural development in the future. That is why I set up the working group. I have already indicated that their work is progressing and that I expect a report from them within the next few months.

The issues involved in water pollution are complex. The completion and consideration of the group's report, the further detailed research which will be essential, the preparation and enactment of whatever legislative measures may be decided on and bringing them into operation will take considerable time. It is essential that the right decisions are made and that new arrangements are based on adequate research and information.

I want to assure Deputy Belton, who has introduced this Bill, and all Members of the House, that it is my intention to introduce a comprehensive code for this country controlling all forms of air and water pollution that will be adequate to deal effectively with these forms of pollution over the next 50 years. I want also to assure the House that I am dedicated to this task. I believe the House and the people will support me in my desire to introduce comprehensive measures. Piecemeal measures aimed at blocking a gap here and there are not what is required to deal with this problem. I have accepted criticism for the delay so far in bringing forward the measures I speak of now. Because of the need for careful research and the dangers of premature legislation I am prepared to accept criticism of some further delays until the best measures possible have been worked out. I want to assure the House, however, that I would be in no way satisfied to allow the position to drift in the meantime. To judge from some of the contributions to the debate one would think that there is at present no control worth talking about over the discharge of effluent. This is far from the actual position. There are extensive controls and on the whole they are reasonably effective. Furthermore, I have made some arrangements and have further steps under consideration to tighten up loopholes in the period until the need for comprehensive new arrangements can be fully assessed.

At a time when local authorities are revising their plans under the Local Government (Planning and Development) Act, 1963, it is well to remember that any planning authority may include in their plans objectives for prohibiting, regulating or controlling the deposit or disposal of waste material and refuse, the disposal of sewage and the pollution of rivers, lakes, ponds, gullies and the seashore. All significant private development and the local authorities' own working must be essentially consistent with the development plan objectives. Development generally is subject to local planning control. The agricultural sector generally is an exception and does not come within this control but steps are being taken to reduce the problems of water pollution arising from agricultural activities. I shall come to that later.

It can be taken, therefore, that close control can be and is exercised by local authorities on the discharge of effluent from new industrial, residential and other physical developments. Powers to take action to remedy existing pollution are conferred on local authorities by older legislation.

Are they compelled to use them though?

Yes, by the Rivers Pollution Prevention and the Public Health Acts and the boards of fishery conservators by the Fisheries (Consolidation) Act, 1959.

They do not seem to use them.

They are not being used at all.

They may not be used to the fullest possible extent and I would encourage them to use all the powers that are available to them.

Why is untreated sewage flowing into rivers in the centre of Dublin city?

I shall come to the position in Dublin.

Whether as an interim measure the planning control of local authorities under the Planning and Development Act should be strengthened particularly as regards established activities which are causing pollution is something I have under active consideration at present. The problems the Deputy is referring to are all being considered by the group I have mentioned. I recently wrote to all planning authorities urging them to use their powers to prevent any new sources of serious water pollution being created and to assist them in this task and to achieve a consistent approach, I have underlined the main considerations which should be taken into account in examining proposals for new or expanded industries. These considerations include such matters as the degree of spare capacity in the existing sewers and treatment works and in the case of any extensions of capacity proposed whether it is intended that the spare capacity should be allocated to a single industry or should be spread between a number, the possibility of balancing industrial flows over an extended period or limiting them to particular times, the expected future demand for disposal facilities for effluent through the sewers and treatment works. Other important aspects of the problem which I have pointed out are whether in a particular case it might be reasonable to allow an industry to install treatment by stages as the industry expands gradually to full production, and whether as a condition of planning permission an industry should be required to contribute financially to the provision of special treatment or disposal facilities.

The findings of the Foras Forbartha water survey have already been made available to local authorities and this information will be of considerable assistance to them when they come to review their development plans, as they are doing at the moment, and in considering the conditions that need to be attached to planning permissions.

As an even further guide to local authorities, I have drawn their attention to various relevant publications, including recommendations for the disposal of industrial effluent waters, produced by the Institute for Industrial Research and Standards and, indeed, if I may say so, to judge from the contribution of Deputy Belton and others, there seems to be considerable misunderstanding about the powers of local authorities to control industrial effluent. The effluent recommendations of the institute to which I have referred are used by the Industrial Development Authority in their dealings with applicants for industrial grant assistance and such assistance is conditional on satisfactory arrangements being undertaken in regard to the treatment and disposal of effluent. But, independently of this, these standards or other appropriate standards or conditions relating to the satisfactory treatment and disposal of effluent may be attached by a planning authority as conditions of a planning permission and such conditions are enforceable by law under the 1963 Planning Act. So there is no question about this and I am urging on planning authorities the need for prompt enforcement action wherever approved plans are not followed or conditions attached are not complied with.

As I have already mentioned, I am asking the planning authorities to let me have a list of industrial and other activities in their areas which are likely to give rise to major effluent problems and have given them a list of the most likely types of activities to look out for. I have also asked for full details of the effluent treatment standards being applied by local authorities at present and of any problems that exist and any new works that are proposed by them. This information is complementary to the information on river pollution level which is being assembled by An Foras. It will give immediate assistance to the inter-departmental working group and it is essential groundwork for the future anti-pollution programme.

Has the Minister set any date for the receipt of this information from local authorities?

It is coming in. It is quite some time since I wrote to them. They have been very co-operative.

Could the Minister give any indication——

I am satisfied with the response from the local authorities. I should like to deal with agriculture and special problems arising from agricultural developments. We know that changes in farming methods and more intensive types of farming have greatly increased the dangers of water pollution from agriculture. As it stands, the use of land for agricultural purposes and the provision of agricultural buildings are not subject to control under the Local Government Planning and Development Act, 1963. A great deal depends, therefore, on the efforts of the agricultural advisory service to secure voluntary co-operation of farmers in measures to remedy the existing problems and to prevent future pollution. Fairly good progress has been made through the advisory service and in connection with the administration of the farm buildings grants scheme towards a greater awareness in the farming community of the pollution dangers and a greater readiness to take action to prevent pollution. Still, problems of pollution from agricultural activity continue and some of these can be serious. This is one of the aspects being considered by the inter-departmental working group. The position has been the subject of special discussions between my Department and the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries and in consequence of these discussions I have written to all sanitary authorities advising them of new arrangements to secure closer co-operation between the parties concerned in agricultural developments.

It is being recommended that where pollution from farming is suspected the first approach by the local authority should be to the chief agricultural officer so that the possibilities of getting the position remedied by voluntary action will be fully explored before there is any question of invoking statutory powers. If a farmer does not act on the advice of the chief agricultural officer in the matter it will be open to the local authority to take all necessary steps to secure abatement of the pollution. This approach is designed to ensure that the agricultural advisory services are fully availed of to achieve remedial action on a voluntary basis. To assist them further, the local authorities have been issued with appropriate material and advice dealing with silage effluent and farmyard waste problems, as prepared by the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries. In general, planning authorities are strongly urged to consult with the chief agricultural officer concerned in dealing with applications for planning permission for agricultural development which may pose particular problems in regard to pollution.

This voluntary approach backed up by the agricultural advisory services and the grants schemes is expected to yield good progress. However, it may not be the complete answer and avoidable abuses may remain. So, I am also considering, in consultation with the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries, whether some modification of the present exemption from control under the Local Government Planning and Development Act, 1963, of certain forms of large-scale and intensive agricultural activities would not be in the public interest. This is not an easy matter to decide. Controls which would be an undue impost on the farming community or that would impose a great deal of additional work on planning authorities should be avoided. On the other hand, there clearly needs to be an effective system of control, whether voluntary or statutory, on such intensive farming activities as large-scale piggeries or poultry houses which can give rise to serious pollution and amenity problems.

Another suggestion that came up during the course of the debate here and that was mentioned a few times is that there should be unified responsibility in matters relating to water pollution. I am not too clear as to what exactly is meant by the suggestion but I know that in some countries a separate department has been set up for the environment. This has been done in an attempt to get all the relevant activities under one roof, as it were. This kind of arrangement has a strong appeal on paper but so far as I know it does not always work out that well. I do not think it should be overlooked that in this country we have already a high degree of unified responsibility and control in matters relating to the use of water resources and this operates through the local government system as a whole. So we can take it that at local level development plans are in operation already in all areas, indicating the local development objectives, including amenities of course, and conservation objectives and development control is exercised in the spirit and the context of these objectives.

At national level my Department has a co-ordinating role in relation to the local development and environmental plans. It also has responsibility for regional planning, housing, the roads programme and for the sanitary services programme. More recently my Department has taken on central and co-ordinating responsibility in relation to air and water pollution problems as is reflected in the setting up of the inter-departmental group in relation to these matters.

An Foras is, of course, the national body basically involved in environmental research and works in close liaison with my Department. The working group on air and water pollution and, in its own area, the regional development committee which also works for my Department, are all means of securing basic liaison with other Departments and public bodies concerned with a view to ensuring consistency in planning and development objectives with proper regard to environmental considerations.

It will be for this working group to advise whether further organisational measures are needed. At this stage, however, I must say that I am not at all convinced that any attempt to have a completely unified responsibility for environmental matters or matters bearing on the use of water resources would not create more problems than it would solve.

Deputy Flanagan seemed to think there should be unified responsibility.

Yes, but I have gone into it in greater detail than anybody, through dealing with it in my Department. It is an essential principle that environmental implications should be considered in the basic planning for any sector.

From this point of view, segregation of environmental from developmental responsibility could well be a step in the wrong direction. I believe that at the moment we have a reasonable balance in unified responsibility.

Arrangements have been made in my Department to proceed with suitable environmental measures in the context of physical and regional development programmes and taking account in due course of the report of the working group.

During the debate Deputy Bruton criticised the staffing arrangements in the Department for dealing with pollution matters. He said that one section, the sanitary services section, is responsible for pollution matters and sanitary services functions generally. This is not so. As the Parliamentary Secretary, Deputy Cunningham, pointed out to Deputy Bruton when he made this statement, I had already informed the House on the 27th October last —column 440, Volume 256 of the Official Report—that, in view of the importance I attached to pollution, a new section to deal specifically with environmental matters had been established in my Department.

The sections of the Department are not all shown separately in the Book of Estimates from which Deputy Bruton quoted. It is normal practice to group related sections in this publication. The new section, the environmental services section, will of course be shown separately in the Directory of State Services for 1972 which will be published shortly.

Deputy Bruton also compared the number of staff in the sanitary and environmental service sections with that in the roads sections. In this connection it should be borne in mind that there are four separate roads and traffic sections which are responsible for various aspects of roads administration, including motor taxation, driver testing, road safety, vehicle fitness, et cetera, in addition to the roads works programme involving large scale expenditure. The staffing requirements of the new environmental services section will, of course, be kept under constant review.

It should not be forgotten that in their ongoing programmes of work for the provision and improvement of sanitary services, local authorities are doing work of real practical value in regard to pollution. Every new treatment works built, every improvement of public water supplies, is of value. I should like now to give a few facts. I recently announced my approval of the contract documents submitted by Dublin Corporation for the construction of the first major stage, costing £2.2 million, of a scheme designed to provide modern sewage treatment works for Dublin. The estimated cost is in the region of £3.5 million. This will deal in the first instance with flows coming through the new Dodder Valley sewer, which is costing £2.5 million and which is scheduled for completion in 1974. This sewer, in addition to opening up 6,300 acres of new land for development in the Tallaght area, will ensure that the Dodder river will be free from pollution. Already there has been substantial improvement in the Dodder as a result of the interception by the Dodder Valley scheme of certain discharges which previously contributed to the pollution of that river.

There has also been some improvement in the Tolka as a result of special works carried out by the corporation. The treatment works will also cater for flows from the Greater Dublin Drainage Scheme, on sections of which work has already commenced. This is estimated to cost £6.5 million. This scheme will eliminate the main cause of pollution of the Liffey and the Camac. The total estimated cost of these schemes is £12½ million. That is a commitment to deal in a practical way with the problem. Work is already under way.

Another capital expenditure in water and sewerage schemes is the annual sum which has been increased from £2.28 million in 1967-68 to £4.89 million in 1970-71. The outgoings for last year are estimated at £6.25 million. There again is ample evidence of increasing commitments by way of practical allocations. There is also the recent Government decision to provide additional capital for sanitary services in 1972-73. It has enabled the commencement of additional water and sewerage schemes to a total value of approximately £2.2 million.

Another point made during the debate was the health aspect. In particular. Deputy Belton tried hard to suggest that there is or that there could be a health hazard for bathers on Dublin beaches. He was quite unable to substantiate that with any relevant information or expert advice when challenged to do so by me. The evidence available to me is that there is nothing to support the view that swimmers in the sea around Dublin are putting their health at risk. The evidence is that no relationship can be established between the incidence of communicable diseases and bathing in sea water contaminated by sewage. The view has been expressed by expert authorities that no major outbreak of serious disease has ever been traced to sea bathing, even in the most heavily contaminated waters. This of course is not to suggest that having to swim through sewage is a pleasant or acceptable condition. It is not, and I have indicated what is being done spent on by way of the moneys being spent on new sewage works, but I want to nail any suggestion, whether intentional or not, that existing conditions in the sea around Dublin or anywhere else present health hazards. There is absolutely nothing to support that view. Pollution in coastal waters is an amenity problem, not a health problem.

On the question of oil pollution of the sea, at national level responsibility for arrangements for the clearance of oil pollution in and around the coast has now been vested in my Department and arrangements are now in hand to set up a system to deal with it. In the meantime, local authorities have been asked to see what they can do to deal with any local problem that may arise. Any larger problems will be handled through co-operation between the various bodies that are in a position to help.

My concern will be with the clearance of such pollution as may occur in and around the coastline at any time. Control of pollution from the sea, whether from discharges or accidental spillages of oil or noxious substances, will depend heavily on international agreements being made and, of course, being observed. The inter-governmental Maritime Consultative Organisation have sponsored a number of conventions on oil pollution of the sea by ships which this country has either implemented or is considering implementing. The organisation are considering soon extending to all noxious substances the existing restrictions on oil pollution of the sea by ships.

In this country, the Oil Pollution of the Sea Acts apply to all ships in Irish territorial waters and to Irish ships on the high seas. Proceedings for contravention of any Acts may be taken by the Minister for Transport and Power or where the contravention occurs in a harbour, by the appropriate harbour authorities. Harbour authorities also have powers to make bye-laws on the discharge and handling of petroleum in their areas and there are additional controls of discharges into the sea or on State owned foreshores without authority and also on the dumping of rubbish into harbours. I would recommend strongly to harbour authorities to exercise to the fullest the powers they have been given. I know many of them are very vigilant in this respect.

The question of cost, of course, is something of which there was very little mention during the debate. There was great silence on this whole question of cost although it must be accepted that it is a vital aspect. There is no use introducing measures unless we are satisfied they are financially as well as technically feasible.

Debate adjourned.
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