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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 Apr 1972

Vol. 260 No. 4

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Dublin Educational Facilities.

10.

asked the Minister for Education if he is aware of the serious concern of people in the Lucan/ Palmerstown area, County Dublin, about the uncertainty of the provision for post-primary education in the area; and if he will make a statement indicating his plans and clarifying the contributions he expects from the vocational education committee, the nuns and the brothers already providing post-primary education in the area.

I have the position regarding post-primary education needs in this developing area under active consideration. As the Deputy is no doubt aware, it is intended to develop community schools in new areas of the city instead of the traditional development of separate secondary and vocational schools. The question of establishing a community school in Lucan is under consideration and discussions will take place shortly with all of the interests involved.

Is it not a fact that the sisters applied some considerable time ago for permission to expand their school in Lucan? Is it not also a fact that the brothers set up there about two years ago? The Minister's recent announcement has caused chaos because a school which does not give a leaving certificate is not regarded as a school at all by parents. Does the Minister appreciate that they do not want to send their children to a school where they can only go as far as the intermediate certificate? They want to send their children to a school where they can finish their post-primary education. The present position in that whole area is that they do not know where they are going. I am sorry the Minister's statement does not seem to clear the position for the parents there.

I think it does clear the position. I have stated what we propose to do in that area, that discussions will take place shortly. In the meantime if further accommodation is necessary we will make that available through the provision of prefabricated buildings.

Is the Minister telling us that what he intends to do is to set up another community school and to bring in the three parties mentioned in this question? Is that the general attitude?

To have discussions.

That is some decision.

11.

asked the Minister for Education the duties and responsibilities of the adversory group on post-primary education in the Dublin region.

12.

asked the Minister for Education if he will give particulars of the members of the advisory committee on post-primary education in the Dublin region; and on what basis they were selected.

With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 11 and 12 together. The advisory committee was set up in June, 1966, to advise on the post-primary accommodation needs of the greater Dublin area. The members of the committee and the bodies by whom they were nominated are shown on a statement which, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to have circulated with the Official Report. They were selected on the basis of providing adequate representation for the interests involved.

Following is the statement:

Dublin Advisory Committee on Post-Primary Educational Facilities

Members

Department of Education:

1. P. Ó Maoldomhnaigh, Uas., Principal Officer. Chairman.

2. L. Ó hAoláin, Uas., Senior Statistician.

3. N. Ó Loingseacháin, Uas., Principal Officer.

4. S. Ó hAicéid, Uas., Assistant Principal Officer.

His Grace the Archbishop of Dublin:

5. Rt. Rev. Mons. J. M. O'Regan, P.P.

Catholic Headmasters' Association:

6. Rev. B. P. Steen, C.M.

Teaching Brothers' Association:

7. Br. P. S. Breathnach.

Conference of Convent Secondary Schools:

8. Rev. Mother M. Jordana, O. P.

City of Dublin Vocational Education Committee.

9. J. P. Sheehan, Esq., C.E.O.

10. T. McCarthy, Esq.

11. D. O'Dwyer, Esq.

12. P. Donegan, Esq.

County Dublin Vocational Education Committee:

13. S. B. Ó Donnchadha, Uas., C.E.P.

14. Vacancy.

Borough of Dún Laoghaire Vocational Education Committee:

15. S. Ó Cleitin, Uas., C.E.O.

16. Rev. L. Carey, C.C.

17. V. Rev. L. McCann, P.P.

Planning Office (Dublin Corporation and Dublin County Council)

18. M. O'Brien, Esq. Chief Planning Officer.

19. C. A. O'Kelly, Esq., Deputy Chief Planning Officer.

Association of Secondary Teachers (Ireland):

20. E. Rushe, Esq.

Vocational Teachers' Association:

21. B. Conway, Esq.

Federation of Catholic Lay Secondary Schools:

22. C. Cannon, Esq.

Secretary: J. A. McManus, Department of Education.

Is the Minister aware that there is no member of the Vocational Education Committee in County Dublin on this advisory committee? It is providing more of the post-primary education than any other single organisation. Could the Minister answer why the Chairman was thrown off that advisory council?

This is not so. The fact is that the CEO is on it.

He is not a member.

The Deputy, I am sure, is very well aware that a Member of the Oireachtas was nominated by the County Dublin Vocational Education Committee to act on this body and that to appoint a Member of the Oireachtas to be a member of a departmental advisory committee would be at variance with very long established practice.

Is it not a fact that when I became chairman of the vocational education committee the Chairman was thrown off the advisory council?

That is not so.

That is in fact true. Up to that point the chairman of the vocational education committee was a member of the advisory council.

The chairman of the vocational education committee was on the advisory committee. The Deputy was never on the committee.

Immediately I became chairman the chairman was no longer invited.

I explained to the Deputy why this was so. It is no personal reflection of any sort on the Deputy. I want to make that clear.

Could I ask a further supplementary question?

We have to move on. We cannot remain all day on this one question.

Does the Minister accept that this advisory council is totally inadequate for the work to be done and that there is a very serious situation in the whole of County Dublin because there is no assessment of post-primary education needs? These are all eminent people, I am quite sure, on this advisory council. They simply have not got the time to do the job and to make the researches that are necessary. They have no staff to do it. It is a job for a few people sitting down and discussing the matter.

We cannot remain all day on this question.

It is a very serious matter.

I know it is, but the Deputy is monopolising Question Time.

Does the Minister intend to allow the situation to continue, as it is at the moment: nobody knows where he is going in relation to post-primary education in County Dublin because the advisory council cannot do what needs to be done?

In reply to the Deputy I want to say that the advisory council are doing an exceptionally good job and have been doing it since 1966.

There is chaos.

I am calling Question No. 13.

This is absolutely untrue.

Would the Minister not agree that the exclusion of Deputies on a body of this kind is against the national interest?

(Interruptions.)

Will the Deputy please allow Questions to continue?

I have not asked a supplementary question until now.

The Deputy cannot ask one now. I have called the next question.

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