Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 7 Jun 1972

Vol. 261 No. 6

Committee on Finance. - Vote 8: Public Works and Buildings (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That the Vote be referred back for reconsideration.
—(Deputy L'Estrange).

I should like to congratulate the Parliamentary Secretary on his very comprehensive outline of the activities of his office. The work of this Office embraces a great deal and affects literally the whole country. I join with other speakers in their plea for the identification of the portraits in the hall in Leinster House. I referred to this last year on this Estimate but so far no steps have been taken to remedy the situation. Today, I had a party of schoolchildren visiting this historic building. They were unable to identify the portraits of the illustrious figures in the hall, these men who made such an important contribution to this State. It is a reflection on our educational system that these children should be ignorant of the identity of those who helped to found this State. I trust that this time next year there will be no need for any of us to complain of lack of identification.

I also join with those who object to any further interference with the public gallery. If people are disposed to protest in a disorderly way, they will do so despite any precautions taken to prevent them doing so. The proposal put forward would spoil the symmetry of the Chamber. I strongly urge that the matter be reconsidered.

The Committee on Procedure and Privileges will deal with that.

The Phoenix Park is this city's traditional recreational centre. It is one of the largest parks in Europe, possibly in the world. There are many public buildings within its confines. Last Sunday week there was a suggestion in The Sunday Press that the proposed Kennedy Memorial Hall should be sited in the Phoenix Park. It was alleged that the suggestion was made by a Committee of this House. I have not seen any public reference to the matter since and I am not absolutely au fait with the procedures of this House. If an all-party committee make a recommendation I assume that recommendation goes directly to the Government without any reference to this Assembly. While there would be ample space for such a hall I would be totally opposed to its being sited in the Phoenix Park.

I am a member of the all-party committee and I never heard anything about this. If the committee are meeting it is news to me.

The Parliamentary Secretary might have extended an invitation to the members of the committee.

That is not my responsibility.

I do not know whether any alternative sites have been considered but there is a very beautiful park in Clontarf, St. Anne's. The late James Larkin, a former Member of this House, was instrumental, with the late Bishop Plunkett, in obtaining that park for the citizens of Dublin. It is maintained by Dublin Corporation. There are plenty of recreational facilities in this beautiful sylvan setting. The competition for the football pitches is very intense. The old mansion was found unsafe and had to be demolished. I suggest that this park would provide a suitable alternative site for the proposed memorial hall. There are excellent approach roads.

Another item to which I wish to refer is the provision made for harbours. I am disappointed that no reference has been made to the development of Howth Harbour in the Estimate. A number of years ago I was given assurances in this House that Howth Harbour would be developed as a major fishery centre but I am rather disappointed that so far no steps have been taken to implement that undertaking. Perhaps, in replying, the Parliamentary Secretary would indicate the Government's intention regarding this harbour which has been traditionally associated for so long with the fishing industry.

The one thing that has annoyed me so much about the Office of Public Works is the way they have of employing staff. I refer specifically to manual workers. It is disgraceful that this is a matter of political patronage. I object to it very strongly and I ask why the Office of Public Works do not use the employment exchanges?

They do.

Why, then, may a person fill in a duplicated form to be employed and be told the only way he can get in is by writing to the Parliamentary Secretary?

No, they are told they cannot be employed unless they register at the employment exchange.

I am asking that this procedure be scrapped now, once and for all and if there are jobs available let them be made available through the employment exchanges.

That is what is done.

We should stop this political patronage. Secondly, I should like to know what pressure is used on employees of the Department who may be involved in political parties. It seems anyone who would lend his name to a political party would have pressure exercised on him by officials of the Office of Public Works. Why is that done and why are people told they may lose their jobs? It is a very serious matter.

Nonsense.

It is not nonsense. I am talking of a specific advertisement which appeared in the paper when a cleaner in the Office of Public Works was dictated to by an official in the Office of Public Works to put this advertisement in the paper dissociating herself from any activities of the Labour Party. Why was this advertisement drafted for her and why was she told that this was the way she could keep her job? We have too much political patronage in that Department and the sooner there is a proper method of employing staff the better. I should like to know that from now on all jobs for manual or skilled workers will be made available through the employment exchanges and that we shall stop having people write to the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance.

Not true.

The other point I raise is the abuse being made of the Phoenix Park by horse-riding. This must cause considerable damage to the grass there. When will we see an end to it? What laws or bye-laws give these people the right to destroy the turf there? I have seen it on many occasions; I think it is dangerous and it must be very expensive to have them riding through the park. These private establishments should have their own arrangements and should not abuse the facilities of the park.

I should also like some better arrangement to be made for the safety of people driving through the park where there are cattle in the vicinity. There is a constant hazard to motorists when cattle are liable to run across the road and, perhaps, cause a serious accident. One such accident did occur to a visitor who knew nothing of the danger and who was driving normally through the park when a cow, I think, raced across the road. His car was badly damaged and he was almost killed. The signs are not adequate and there should be more protection than signs because animals are unpredictable and, as is known, they have caused serious accidents on major roads. There should be a better means of protecting drivers in the Phoenix Park.

A computer station is being built for the Office of Public Works at Inchicore Road. The site was badly chosen. I think originally it was to be on the other side of this link road to the dual carriageway. Now, because of its present location—and it is almost completed—it has destroyed all hope of widening this link road. Who made this decision and why, when there is an adequate derelict site at Emmet Road, Inchicore, owned by the Office of Public Works where it would not pose a hazard? Knowing the Office of Public Works do not have to get planning permission, I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to tell me why the present site was chosen.

A final point relates to the Royal Hospital, Kilmainham which has been receiving considerable funds for a number of years. I was piqued by a letter I saw in The Irish Times about a year ago about an architect who wanted to go there and examine the buildings but the Commissioners of Public Works refused him permission. When will the work there be completed and when will it be made available to the public? What is the annual cost of its upkeep? It is on extensive grounds. When so much public money has been pumped into it and when an architect was anxious to examine the structure and examine the erosion, woodworm and dry rot there, I wonder why he was refused permission. The Parliamentary Secretary may shrug his shoulders but it is his responsibility to find out and I think he should do it. What were they trying to cover up? Why was permission not given to a taxpayer supporting this project and why was he not allowed to examine it? I should be glad if the Parliamentary Secretary would answer those points.

The Parliamentary Secretary seemed to be at pains in his opening remarks to make the point that £1,988,600 more was being provided in the present year. In normal times that would seem to be a fairly substantial increase and I am sure the Parliamentary Secretary would be happy if more money were at his disposal. Having listened to the debate and heard various Deputies pleading to have many schemes of one kind or another carried out, one can appreciate there is urgent need for a substantially greater amount of money to be made available to this Department.

When I spoke of normal times I had in mind the importance at present of arterial drainage. In view of the serious situation which exists and has existed through the years, I believe this is by far the most important work undertaken by the Office of Public Works. A sum of money was made available for undertaking the Moy drainage, a large part of which was spent in my constituency over a period of years and it is true to say that the expenditure of this money and the carrying out of the operation brought great benefits to the people of the area. Considerable sums were spent on doing the actual work, on carrying out the excavation work on the main channel and in some of the smaller rivers, and considerable sums earned by way of wages and salaries by workmen and officials, both indoor and outdoor staffs, and indeed, while it lasted the town and its business generally benefited as a result. It would be very wrong of me if I did not on this occasion express my appreciation on behalf of the people I represent of the work which was carried out. It benefited the people in Mayo and Sligo particularly and, perhaps, in other regions to a lesser extent.

It is, however, rather unfortunate that many important works were not undertaken at the time that scheme was in operation. A number of streams were surveyed and I understand estimates made. Many people were led to believe that the work would be undertaken at an early date and I personally have made representations to the Parliamentary Secretary and members of his staff to have such works undertaken, in the hope that they would be undertaken while the scheme was in operation, but many of these were left undone. I have in mind in particular the Tonaroe area near Charlestown along the Sligo border, regions near Crossmolina, Killala and Ballina where there are areas of good land and then on to Kiltimagh, Claremorris and Knock and towards Ballinrobe and Castlebar, and, indeed, other regions, as an auctioneer would say, too numerous to mention. It is generally appreciated that there is a land hunger in Mayo. People live in congested small uneconomic holdings and it would have been of immeasurable benefit to the area concerned had that work been undertaken.

Estimates, as I say, were prepared and submitted to the Department in Dublin which, as far as I am aware, ruled on the particular proposals and, unfortunately, ruled in such a way that many useful works which, in my opinion, could be carried out for the benefit of the local smallholders and the people generally were left undone on the ground that the cost of doing the work would not be justified on economic grounds. We all know that the price of land has increased substantially and has certainly increased more in the past 12 months that it ever did in my time, and how the Department officials arrived at this decision really beats me, because it can be argued that if land values two or three years ago were one thing, they have doubled and trebled in more recent times. That being so, one would imagine that the Department of Finance would bring their thinking up to date and bring their methods of assessing the value of the different proposals up to date, and that the works would have been undertaken, but no.

Repeated representations have been made by me and I am sure by the Minister for Lands, who is a Deputy for my constituency, and by my colleague, Deputy Finn, but so far the work has not been undertaken. Many excuses were given of one kind or another, that men, machinery and engineers would have to move on to the Boyne river and the truth is that things have ground to a halt, with serious loss and inconvenience to the farmers concerned and also loss of employment within the county. It should be borne in mind that there is a grave need for land reclamation and rehabilitation within the county and that being so, it can readily be understood that many useful land project schemes could be undertaken if the main outfall, the outfall of the river, was satisfactory. These schemes are held up and will be held up until these works are undertaken and I am, therefore, pleading with the Parliamentary Secretary to have a new look at all these many proposals which have come in from around County Mayo and the borders of Sligo, and see whether in the light of increased land values it is now possible to have these works undertaken. They would bring immense benefit to the farmers and would provide worthwhile employment for hundreds of people. Many people are anxious to put lime and fertilisers on their land but it does not make sense to me, nor to any hardheaded farmer, to put lime or fertiliser on water-logged land. No benefit would be got from it. It would be a waste of money. Many of these little streams and rivers flow directly into the sea and there is no need for any experts or engineering staff to be employed to take levels or anything else.

I am a member of the Mayo County Committee of Agriculture. The majority of the members and the chairman of that committee are members of the Fianna Fáil Party. Year in, year out, the chairman and other members stress the urgent need to have streams and rivers in the Westport/Louisburgh area, particularly Aughagower, which is not in my constituency, undertaken for arterial drainage work. In some cases there are direct outlets to the sea. Because those members of the committee are not Members of this House I feel it my duty to mention this in passing. Many of these works could be carried out with the 10 RB, 18 RB of 22 RB machine without any great expertise. This would bring immeasurable benefits to the people concerned. It is very frustrating for a go-ahead body like the Mayo County Committee of Agriculture—I consider it a go-ahead body and I think that is the view held in the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries—that many of the schemes we would like to undertake, schemes which would be of great benefit to the people, cannot be undertaken because of flooding.

I am not at liberty to introduce a discussion on Local Authority (Works) drainage schemes which were undertaken for many years except to point out that due to the discontinuance of these schemes many works which could have been undertaken had to be abandoned because the money was not being made available to Mayo County Council. We have nowhere to turn at this time except to the Parliamentary Secretary and I would ask him to see if he can make more money available within our county. Perhaps he will say they have not got the organisation, that they have not got enough engineers or enough staff to undertake some of these works. I see no reason why any local authority cannot, with their own engineering staff, carry out drainage works of the kind I have in mind. Bearing in mind that the Moy, the main channel, has been drained I see no reason why the local authority could not carry out these works if the Office of Public Works are not able to undertake them, provided the money is made available. The Office of Public Works were not slow to give responsibility, to pass the buck, so to speak, in the case of roads. They made niggardly sums of money available to have road works carried out when they refused to do that work themselves. We are not discussing roads here however. This work is productive, it would bring great benefits to our people at present. We are to enter the EEC within the next six months, roughly. The people are increasing their herds. They will have to have grass to feed these cattle. How can they have feeding for cattle if the lands are not drained? No county in Ireland is so much in need of that type of drainage as County Mayo where so many homes have been closed, where so many people have had to leave because of the smallness of their holdings and because they did not have employment with public authorities, forestry, et cetera.

In the Office of Public Works the proposals in regard to the river Robe which causes terrible flooding all over South Mayo are pigeon-holed. Meetings have been held in Hollymount, Ballinrobe and other towns protesting about the delay in having something done. I want to stress the urgency of having this work undertaken at an early date. Making excuses will no longer be tolerated. Then there is the Corrib/Mask drainage scheme and the Black River. How we can make the argument in an agricultural country that we are well ready to go into Europe in the light of the facts I have stated here and in the light of facts stated by other Deputies I do not know. Our main industry is agriculture. It does not make sense to have land water-logged, making it impossible for our farmers to have land reclamation schemes carried out because of the failure of the Department of Finance to undertake the major works. The Department of Finance will gain in a big way from the fact that subsidies will be done away with when we enter the EEC. We know about the increase in the price of cattle. We know the value of cattle as an exportable commodity, increasing in price every day. Never before have we had such numbers of cattle in the country but we must have grass to feed them and you cannot have it if land is water-logged. I am asking the Parliamentary Secretary to see the Minister for Finance and put these facts before him.

I mean no insult or reflection on his courtesy, integrity or anything else when I say that the Parliamentary Secretary is a city Deputy. I wonder is it possible for a city Deputy to appreciate the difficulties and the hardships suffered by persons in rural areas when their lands are water-logged. The Parliamentary Secretary is a very obliging and very courteous man; there is no better in the House; but I doubt very much if a person from this city could appreciate the problem in regard to feeding cattle that presents itself when land is water-logged.

On the question of harbours and harbour facilities, I would remind the House of the tragedy that occurred within the last few days in Killala Bay, in the Enniscrone area, when four lives were lost. That tragedy shocked the nation. The sympathy of the House goes out to the bereaved. It would seem that these lives could not have been saved even if every possible rescue facility had been available. This seemed to be an act of God that was inevitable. However, this sad occurrence reminds us of the need to provide safe boats, safe landing facilities and every possible safety precaution for fishermen. We have a very serious duty to provide everything that is required by way of piers, slips and equipment.

The Parliamentary Secretary has been reasonably generous towards the Killala development scheme. A certain amount of money has been expended there in the last few years and as a result benefits have been provided for local people. There have been increased landings of fish. More expenditure is needed in that region. There is no major fishing harbour along the north-west coast. Killala is the biggest harbour in that region. There should be increased development at that point. There is need for the expenditure of more money. Surveys of engineering works should be carried out. I do not claim any expertise in regard to this type of development but I would urge the Parliamentary Secretary to continue the development and to make further money available. Of course, he should act on the advice of his very efficient engineering staff. The type of expenditure I have in mind would benefit the area. As an island country we should continue to develop our fishing industry.

That would be a matter for Fisheries rather than for the Office of Public Works.

I think I am entitled to mention the provision for the improvement of piers and slips. If my knowledge of the fishing industry is limited it is because, as you will appreciate, I am an inlander. I am making the point that we are reminded by the recent tragedy of the need to improve harbour facilities.

The Deputy would do a spot of fishing.

Yes. There should be due regard to the importance of improving piers, slips and harbours and of providing every possible safety precaution.

The question of the transfer of the Department of Lands to Castlebar and the Department of Education to Athlone has become a hardy annual in this House. A great many people in Mayo wonder if the transfer will ever take place.

It is like the factory the area was promised.

They got tired using that one. The Deputy brings me back a number of years. There is something on paper. The Parliamentary Secretary made reference to it in his speech. People cannot understand the reason for the delay. Promises were made years ago. So far no sod has been cut. It is not usual for a Fianna Fáil Government to move in on a project without making a song and dance about it. No sod has been cut; no block has been laid in Castlebar. I would warn the Parliamentary Secretary, and indeed, the Government, that the people of Mayo will certainly give them their answer if that work is not undertaken and if the Department of Lands does not come to Castlebar. I leave it at that.

The question of Garda barracks is usually raised on this Estimate. In some areas new Garda barracks have been erected. This is gratifying. In many towns and districts the Garda station is very dilapidated.

Again, that would be a matter for the Estimate for Justice.

When one makes representations in regard to Garda barracks, schools, and so on, one finds that the Office of Public Works is in some way involved.

When they are instructed to carry out the works in question.

That is the point I was going to make. Frequently delays occur, delays which I, and many people outside this House, cannot understand. During the years Deputies have made representations to have Garda stations erected or to have improvements carried out and they have always been told that the delay is with the Office of Public Works. I would appeal to the Parliamentary Secretary to ensure that delays will not occur in the future.

I want to stress the importance of having more money made available for arterial drainage work and for work on the smallest streams and rivers. In the Claremorris/Ballinrobe area there is the river Robe, there is also the Corrib/ Mask rivers, the Black River and rivers in Westport, Louisburgh, Aughagower, Doocastle, Crossmolina, Charlestown and many other regions. Even in my own area of Foxford work was not carried out on the rivers.

In the last few years the value of land has trebled. Economics were the prime consideration three or four years ago when proposals were put forward for draining land. However, when one considers how valuable are the thousands of acres which are flooded each year, it is obvious that we must give further consideration to plans for the drainage of the lands in question.

I should like to bring to the notice of the Parliamentary Secretary the fact that hundreds of acres are flooded in the Ballyboughal area. The situation is so bad that when flooding accurs the people in the area find it impossible to get to their homes. The work involved in this case would not be very costly and I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to put this item on a priority list. People in the areas from Garristown to Lusk are affected and I have received many complaints from them.

In wet weather thousands of acres of land are flooded and it was impossible recently to use the road at Ballyboughal. The river is choked with weeds and when the flood comes from the higher ground at Garristown the land is completely flooded. This matter needs urgent attention because in wet weather the people are isolated; on Sundays they cannot attend Mass.

I realise that the Office of Public Works are not responsible for the delay in dealing with the problem of coast erosion around the Dublin area. The Dublin County Council have employed engineers who have experience of this matter. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to give priority to this problem, Hundreds of acres of land are being washed away and in a few years time houses in the area concerned will be affected also. A south-easterly breeze takes away yards of embankment and if something is not done about the matter many of my good friends will be washed away. I realise the Parliamentary Secretary is awaiting a report from the county council on the coast erosion at Portrane and I am pressing the county council for the report.

In the last few years we have had considerable agitation to have Skerries harbour extended for about 200 feet. The job was carried out eventually by the Office of Public Works and the money was supplied by the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries and the county council. The fishing fleet at Skerries has tripled and an extension of at least 100 feet is required to the harbour. Skerries has a thriving fishing industry and it is important that this facility should be granted. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to give sympathetic consideration to this matter.

I should like to make a comment about St. Patrick's Island. Tradition has it that this was the spot on which St. Patrick landed. From what I have read about Fingal I know that the history of the area was very turbulent for a long time after the landing of the Norsemen in the seventh century. Fingal was known as "the land of the fair stranger" and I suppose being a stranger to Fingal myself I would like to improve it during my lifetime. For that reason I brought up the matter of the preservation of St. Patrick's Island some time ago and the Parliamentary Secretary told me then that if there was a building of historic interest on the island, he would preserve it. Therefore, all I can do is to present the island with a statute or cross which might result in the Parliamentary Secretary preserving the island. It has been said that I would lose votes on the island.

I heard that the Deputy intends retiring.

I am good for another 50 years.

Perhaps Deputy Burke will tell me where is St. Patrick's Island?

It is one of the three islands off Skerries. Perhaps when the Deputy has an evening to spare we might go out there when I would be willing to take him to the island in a little yacht which I have. The Parliamentary Secretary has been very helpful to the Swords Preservation Society and has received a number of deputations from them. In the autumn of my life I am becoming more concerned with the preservation of ancient monuments. At one stage I was editor of a paper that was known as The Fingal Fingerpost. At that time I devoted much of the space of publication to dealing with matters of local history and archaeology so that it might be said that I have a special interest in all the old buildings in the area.

The Office of Public Works are responsible for many things concerning the lives of our people. The problem of dealing with our rivers is a huge one in itself and it is very important because where land is flooded there is a loss to the nation as a whole because in our society if one link fails, others are affected. So far as flooding from the sea is concerned we have mountains here that prevent this to a large extent but in Holland, for instance, the situation is very different. There the sea is making inroads into the land and they have a Minister who deals exclusively with waterways. When I was in that country last year I was struck by the fact that 13.5 million people are living in an area which is about the size of Munster.

I wish the Parliamentary Secretary well in the work he is doing. I know that he must work within financial limits but should he be able to get another few million pounds there are a few jobs in County Dublin that I would like him to have carried out. In the meantime, perhaps, we may strike oil in this country and thereby be enabled to do all the work that we would like to do.

One of the difficulties in speaking on this Estimate is that the Office of Public Works have some association with practically everything but, at the same time, they have not a lot of responsibility for many things. Therefore, we are rather restricted in making our contribution in saying many of the things that we wish to say.

It seems to me that the main and most important function of the Office of Public Works is that of arterial drainage. One might say that the office are responsible now for all types of drainage. Unless the main drainage is carried out and augmented greatly, many thousand of acres will continue to be non-productive. In relation to land reclamation work which is secondary to main drainage, it has been found that many fields are held up because of the slowness of main arterial drainage.

I regret that this year there is a reduction in the Estimate in respect of main drainage to the extent of £95,000 by comparison with the previous year. This is difficult to understand when one realises the amount of work that needs to be done and which, if not done, will preclude other work from being carried out.

About two years ago the Parliamentary Secretary visited Wexford in association with my colleagues, the Fianna Fáil Deputies. I understand that Fianna Fáil councillors were concerned, too, but nobody else was notified that the meeting was to take place. The purpose of the meeting was in connection with the drainage of Tacumshane Lake which is in the vicinity of Lady's Island. This is a job that would be impossible for anyone but the Board of Works to undertake. The Parliamentary Secretary more or less gave an open promise that something would be done in this regard in the near future. The area is very fertile. The land does not require any lime. That is peculiar to the County of Wexford as a whole. However, it is necessary that work be done there for the purpose of letting out sea-water but this is a job that would take a long time to do and that would require the services of skilled engineers. Of course, the work involved would not be anything like, for instance, the drainage of the Shannon. From time to time Wexford County Council have tried to do maintenance work there so as to open up the channel but on each occasion the sand has been swept in again so that all the work had been negatived. When the Parliamentary Secretary is replying I should like him to give us some indication of when this work will be carried out. It is a major job in itself by virtue of the fact that it will clear so much land. Something like 2,000 acres of fertile arable land are involved. It is not a big job. It is not a question of bringing gangs there and keeping them for months as is the case in the Moy scheme and other schemes. Therefore, it should get priority. Any work that is done in the hinterland is a waste of time because the land which is cleared or drained will be back in the same position in a very brief period.

I want to give a classic example of the need for arterial drainage. Although I am an east coast Deputy I have to go to the west of Ireland to really stress this need. For years I have heard Deputies asking questions about the River Suck. During a byelection I worked in an area in Roscommon called the Bogs of Cloneen as far as I can remember. The average farm there is about 15 acres. There is a potential for each farm to be increased to 45 or 50 acres of arable land. The farmers with 15 acres are not making a living. They eke out an existence. I am informed by an expert on drainage that, if the River Suck were drained, it would be possible for this area called the Bogs of Cloneen, I think, to be drained, and a lot of land would be brought into production. This is not really my business since it is not my constituency, but it is in the national interest. All drainage and all reclamation of land are dependent on main drainage schemes.

The fact that there is a reduction of £100,000 this year in this estimate is a very bad sign. I cannot understand it because in the future every rood and acre of land will mean a lot to national revenue. We now face assured markets. The Parliamentary Secretary has not got a seat in the Cabinet. I have often said that the Office of Public Works should be headed by a Minister. He could be called the Minister for the Environment or something like that, but he should have Cabinet authority to make his case. I suppose the unfortunate Parliamentary Secretary was simply told by the overlords in the Cabinet: "We want to cut down expenses here, there and everywhere and we are cutting you by £95,000 for drainage and you may accept that." He had no direct answer for that because he is not a member of the Cabinet and, therefore, he is not a policy maker.

His position would be greatly strengthened in this House in the future if he could tell us whether he took the cut of £95,000 lying down or put up a battle for a bigger sum. If he had been given another £½ million it still would not have been enough to deal with all the problems. There is no shortage of water in Ireland. In many places we have too much water and in others too little. We have a tremendous amount of low-lying land. The main drainage schemes are dependent on something being done about the Shannon. This has been promised for years but there is no sign of its being done.

There are many other areas which are affected by tidal flooding. The previous speaker mentioned the Dutch. The magnitude of their problem is 500 or 600 times the magnitude of ours, but they have managed to keep the water out, to keep their land arable, and to maintain a sizeable agricultural population in considerable affluence. It is only playing with the problem to come in here with a reduction of this size.

Coast erosion has been shifted over to the local authorities. They are absolutely dependant on the know-how of the Board of Works for dealing with coast erosion. There is very little money and very few schemes to deal with coast erosion, and practically the whole of the east coast is in danger as a result of the tidal drift. There is a danger of massive erosion. The drift of the tide is north and south and it has a suction action which is removing large tracts of valuable land and pulling houses into the sea. In an area in my constituency not very far from Courtown Harbour two houses fell into the sea in the last couple of years, and now the small village is threatened with being carried away. The Deputies of the area make representations to the county council. The county council make sympathetic noises but they always say they have not got the know-how to do anything about it. Therefore, the problems of coast erosion are problems for the Office of Public Works and nobody else.

I am not denigrating them when I say I do not believe there is a single county council engineer throughout the whole of Ireland who knows and understands the problems of coast erosion. This is a very highly specialised job. There are not enough engineers in the Office of Public Works who understands the job. In fact, they are totally understaffed. The engineering section have been understaffed for years. I am told that they are constantly trying to recruit engineers but they have great difficulty in doing so because there is such a sameness in the work that they get fed up doing it and go elsewhere. It would be advisable to spend some money on sending these engineers to study conditions elsewhere. This would give them an interest in their work and it would give them the opportunity to travel early in life. They would be much more likely to be able to hold on to them in the Board of Works then.

These engineers have the wanderlust like all Irish people. We are all descendants of the Wild Geese and we like to roam. I roamed a good deal myself in my youth. These engineers would like to have the opportunity of working somewhere else for a while. This applies to all specialists working in Government Departments but more particularly in the Office of Public Works. This is, perhaps, a matter that could be considered. The engineering problem could be overcome and, if it is overcome, then coastal erosion can be dealt with properly. At the moment it is nothing more than a maintenance job, with the result that the position grows worse really instead of better.

We have a rich bounty of ancient monuments. We have more monuments per acre than any other country in the world. The two richest countries from which we hope to get tourists, Germany and America, have nothing old. I remember some years ago, when the late President Eisenhower was in Wexford, I asked him if there was anything in particular he wanted to see and he told me he wanted to see something that was 100 years old because they have nothing in America that is 100 years old. Hundreds of people, mostly Germans and Americans, come here every year to see Ballyhack Castle, one of the old fortified monasteries on the south coast. The Germans are very interested in ancient monuments because, as a result of two world wars, there are very few of these old monuments left.

I know the Board of Works is not responsible for tourism, but it is responsible for making amenities available to tourists by building roads, signposting particular areas and so forth. An alleged brochure has been produced, I do not know by whom, but it is the most futile publication I have ever seen. It is just a list of certain things and the places in which they will be found. There is no indication of how one can find them or what the monuments are. A proper brochure should be produced and all these historic monuments should be properly signposted. There should be an accompanying map giving clear directions as to location. Some of these monuments are in the middle of fields. It should not be beyond the competence of the Board of Works to produce a proper brochure containing all the essential information. The knowledge of the local population about monuments in their vicinity is very limited. This is not surprising when those who should be sponsoring these things have done virtually nothing about them.

Survey work is something that must go on continuously. Whenever anyone tries to get something done one is told that a survey has not yet been carried out. Are these surveys carried out by the same engineering staff that does the work? I suspect they are. I suspect that is why there is all this procrastination. A survey takes the best part of 12 months and, when it is completed, it has to be studied by innumerable people behind closed doors who will work out the costings and try to save as much as possible. In the meantime the harbour, or whatever it may be, is deteriorating further. It is of no value to anybody. There should be a separate group. We have in this country a very fine firm competent to do survey work. These are Irishmen who served in the British Navy and who carried out surveys all over the world. They are Irish based and their employees are Irishmen. I suggest they should be engaged to carry out surveys for the Office of Public Works. They are experts at their job. This would ease the burden of work on the Office of Public Works. It should also avoid mistakes being made.

Some years ago a fairly sizeable sum was spent on Wexford Harbour. An incomplete survey was carried out beforehand and dredging was carried out around The Rower because that was where it was assumed the trouble was. Actually the trouble was not there at all and the dredging should have been done at another point. I am told that a survey now would cost about £3,000. Naturally the Office of Public Works will tell us that it would cost £30,000. It would not. A very small job of work would now put the harbour right. I suggest this survey should be handed over to the firm I have mentioned. It would actually ease the strain on the officers of the Board of Works. I have always had sympathy for the Board of Works because they are the scapegoat and everybody blames them. Everything is foisted on them. They have insufficient skilled staff. Earlier, I pointed out how that situation could be improved. Perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary would take some notice of what I said but whether he has power to force the Government to do these things or not, I do not know. My experience over a great many years is that it is very hard to get the Fianna Fáil Government to do anything that is of great national benefit.

Every Deputy appreciates the massive drainage job that must be completed if we are to make available many acres of good and fertile land which in many counties now lies derelict or under-productive because of being water-logged. The resources of the country at any one time could not be expected to meet the demand in full but it must be, and is a disappointment that the estimate for arterial drainage has been reduced. Last year the Parliamentary Secretary referred to a survey of the economic feasibility of our investment in arterial drainage as a whole. I understand we are still awaiting the results of this survey. I felt then that the inclusion of this statement in the Estimate indicated there was a feeling that our investment in drainage was not giving the return it should. I want to emphasise from my own experience in farming and from what I have seen in the counties I know of, the advantages of good drainage. No management factors, no fertilisers can be fully effective if a farm's drainage problem is not overcome. From that I argue that better drainage could never be economically undesirable but especially at a time when it is necessary to improve stock numbers. Despite the great advances made, I think we all believe that there is still great room for improvement and now, as others have said, when we have a market outlet we should endeavour to make every pocket and parcel of land which is now under-productive available so as to gain maximum benefit from entering the EEC and so build up our stocks to the maximum.

It can be demonstrated that drainage is vital and that any reduction in the Estimate or any change in our thinking in regard to the whole question would be disastrous. We might be better employed in examining how we could more economically carry out more effective drainage rather than in examining whether the drainage we are doing is fully economic. There are cases where drainage costs can be excessive and I am not unaware of the legal difficulties and many other problems that can arise before successful arterial drainage can be carried out, but it is vitally important to go ahead and spend more money on arterial drainage and seek ways and means to make it more economic.

To be somewhat more parochial I want to refer to two river basins affecting my own constituency, those of the Mulcaire and the Nore. Because of the inadequate outlets these rivers provide, many land projects have been prevented from implementation and farmers willing to invest in their land and increase its potential are inhibited by the restriction imposed by these river outlets. The fact that the rivers do not appear to be listed for drainage in the near future is something we view with dismay. I urge the Parliamentary Secretary to expedite schemes for both rivers. I believe when completed they will prove fully economic and will lead to better agricultural production in these river basins where many farmers have land which is under-productive and where many families are even living at some risk to themselves at times of heavy rainfall.

I mentioned the matter of land project schemes being held up and in that connection I wish to refer to the land project offices at Nenagh which I visit in my constituency work. These offices are so dilapidated that any proposals regarding them in the Office of Public Works at present should be implemented so that the officers operating from the military barracks would have proper accommodation and environment in which to work. It is essential that some radical improvements be made and they would not be before their time.

Finally, I want to refer to the proposal for the erection of a new central Church of Ireland school at Roscrea. Here this community, lead by the rector, have provided their contribution and have selected a suitable site. The plans are with the Office of Public Works and because of the inadequate school which exists there at present, I would impress again on the Parliamentary Secretary the need to get this scheme under way. A similar scheme, I understand, is contemplated for Cloughjordan and I can prove that the school there is in very poor condition and the teachers and children require that the central school be commenced as soon as possible.

I would also urge the need to get an increase in the Estimate for arterial drainage and to fight any idea that investment in drainage cannot be shown to be economic, together with the necessity to get ahead with further arterial drainage so that the land of this country which is untapped at the moment can be made productive. I do not think that any management factor or any fertiliser can ever be shown to be effective where there is a necessity for drainage.

Mr. J. Lenehan

I would not like to have made my will and to have written into it that if I died suddenly here tonight, six Members of Dáil Éireann should carry out my coffin. After all the attacks made upon the Board of Works, very few people have come in here to justify those attacks. I am not particularly in favour of the Board of Works but I am certainly in favour of the Parliamentary Secretary who controls the Board of Works and who has always been very decent to me, as was his good father before him, and who has always carried out whatever I have asked him to do in my end of the country.

A late conversion.

Mr. J. Lenehan

I am not a late conversion. I was born, baptised and confirmed but I have not seen the Deputy's confirmation certificate. We could not even get the birth certificate of some of them, so if you want to be funny——

The Deputy should avoid personalities.

Mr. J. Lenehan

Leave me alone and I am the quietest man in this House, but if people try to make a mickey out of me, I can be a bigger mickey than Mickey Begley and that is saying something.

I am not in complete and entire agreement with the Board of Works. Some of their predictions over the years—I know I am not going to get much publicity for this, seeing the man who is up in the Press Gallery——

The Deputy should not criticise members of the Press Gallery.

Mr. J. Lenehan

Some of their predictions are on a par with those of old Moore's Almanac and these predictions have not even come on paper. I would say that an election is not very far away because the last time it was the Fine Gael Party who started draining the Shannon in 1925 and it is now rumoured again that the Shannon is to be drained. If it is to be drained this time, what are they going to take out of it, it has been drained so often since I came to the use of reason? How there could be any water left in it to take out is absolutely beyond me. However, I believe that in view of the type of worker who lives in that area, it is quite possible that we are to have a continuation of the drainage of the Shannon which comes up immediately before every election. Like the Old Moore's Almanac predictions, it comes along regularly every year but if I live to see the Shannon drained, I will be one of the oldest men outside Methusaleh who ever lived in this world.

I am not interested in the drainage of the Shannon. It is a long way from me, except that the new bridge over it, which I got put up after a lot of agitation, allows me to get across it without getting my feet wet, but I am interested in the drainage of the Moy at a cost of something between £10 million and £12 million which now brings down bigger floods than before it was touched. I am particularly interested in the fact that Mayo County Council, of which I am a very longterm member, 22 years, and where I would head the poll again tomorrow if there was an election, have to pay a colossal sum every year to maintain this river. The unfortunate thing about the river Moy—and the Board of Works are responsible for it—is that the people of my constituency have to pay for the maintenance of the drainage of a river from which they can derive no benefits, good, bad or indifferent. How can a man or woman in Blacksod or in Belmullet gain anything from keeping the banks of the river Moy sloping one way or the other? Some of them never saw the river Moy and they could not care less about it. I think it is a public disgrace.

Once the Government drain a river and pay the money for draining it they should pay for keeping that river flowing. It is rather strange that before the Board of Works ever entered into that scheme or had anything to do with it, it would appear that the water ran down the river Moy. Am I to take it now that instead of running down, as a result of the activities of the Board of Works, the water is now flowing up the river Moy and the people in my constituency who have no connection in the world with that river must pay for ensuring that the water keeps flowing one way instead of the other? If the Board of Works never touched that river, we in Mayo would be much better off. Let me be fair. I think that work cost about £12 million—it certainly cost £10 million— and if the people who spent that money on the river Moy gave it to the farmers in Mayo, would they not be millionaires today? Half of the work being carried out by the Office of Public Works is nothing but a joke if it is carried out for the sake of giving alleged employment. It would be far cheaper to pay these fellows for sitting down at home and give the balance of the money to the farmers and formulate schemes whereby the farmers could improve their own holdings. The biggest flood ever in the river Moy and the flood that did most damage occurred since the river Moy was drained. That shows the benefit of draining. The fact that the water flowed away and took half the country with it was not, I suppose, the fault of the Office of Public Works but before it was drained there was a grand countryside there. Today there is nothing but a dose of stones, rubbish and rubble of every description. Unless you had a helicopter you could not see the river.

Why did the people who drained the Moy not insist on Mayo County Council or some other body taking this rubbish away? It is not rubbish. In many cases it is good limestone material. Why did they not ask them to use it for road making or land drainage, for which it was perfectly suitable? To leave it there in mountains, nearly as high as Croagh Patrick, was nothing but a public disgrace. Then we have An Taisce and all these boys who come along telling us how to preserve our amenities and the scenic beauty of our territory. The Office of Public Works or any other Government Department can do whatever they wish and get away with it while an ordinary Mayoman or Galwayman who wishes to build a hotel is not permitted to do so and will be shot down by some kind of mickey mouse operator who masquerades as a planning officer.

I know the Leas-Cheann Comhairle did not see the Moy in recent times. He may have seen it before the hand of anti-Christ fell on it. It was the hand of God that made it. To see this river today and to see the results of the expenditure of our £10 million or £12 million must be one of the greatest jokes in Europe. I do not speak lightly. I have been here a long time. I am the only man in Mayo who ever came in here as an Independent and I will be the last Mayoman who will go out if I do not want to go out. I am speaking plainly and fairly. The thing is a disgrace. We have the problem in the Midlands too. We have the finest dump of stones ever erected anywhere. For God's sake, can some steps be taken to get these stones out of our sight? The fact that I wear glasses does not mean I have bad sight. I wear them for prestige purposes.

Among other things.

Mr. J. Lenehan

If I live to see the Shannon drained I will be a very old man. Whenever I hear any word about the drainage of the Shannon I call meetings of all my cumainn and I tell them it looks as if we should be ready within a short time. I understand that in the last few weeks there was a notice somewhere that the Shannon would be drained.

Did the Deputy call meetings?

Mr. J. Lenehan

I did.

What type of cumainn has the Deputy got now?

Mr. J. Lenehan

They are all behind me. I got in when I had nobody at all.

When arterial drainage is being carried out the Government should accept responsibility for its maintenance or else leave it there to hell. Why expect the Erris man to pay for the maintenance of the River Moy? I do not think anybody would disagree with me on that.

I understand all national schools are erected by the Office of Public Works. In days gone by, the ordinary school had good concrete walls, plenty of windows and was a very sound structure which would last long after we disappeared from this earth. However, a new structure has come on the scene—the glasshouse. It is made from glass and bits of sticks. If a storm came it would go in the front and out the back or in the back and out the front. There appears to be nobody sure as to the identity of the person who would have to restore the damage done by the storm. Suppose there never was a storm—and it is possible that down my country while I am here there may not be a storm because I take care of my own people—the children are inside looking out and the crowd outside are looking in. The place is like a hot-house in summer and a fridge in winter. This is the type of school I now have in many parts of my constituency. It has been suggested to me that there is a good reason for that. I do not know. I shall leave it to the Parliamentary Secretary to answer that. The suggestion is that it was decided that in my constituency there would be very few people left anyway except myself and my family and that these schools could be used as glass houses for growing tomatoes. The population is not going down and it will not go down as long as I am there. They never paint a school after it goes up. It is supposed to be left to the parish priest. It would have been as well to leave it to Moses. They put them up and they expect them to stay up. If I did not paint my house for the last 25 or 30 years it would be a lovely looking house today I am sure.

The Office of Public Works are not responsible for the maintenance of schools.

Mr. J. Lenehan

They are responsible for the schools.

They are not responsible for the maintenance of schools. It is the Department of Education and the managers.

Mr. J. Lenehan

I shall leave it so.

I want to thank the Office of Public Works for their co-operation with me in erecting piers and slips in my area. At the moment there are more slips and piers than there are fish, but we will get the fish no matter what traps we have to use. There are a few other things that could be done. I must say that the Boards of Works have been fair and, with the staff at their command, they have been very reasonable indeed. I understand that they are giving me a £¼ million job around my doorstep within the next 12 months, which is not bad considering the question of whether I kept the Government here for 11 years.

The question of public monuments was raised in the course of the debate. I often wonder whether we should preserve these public monuments or blow them up. Most of them are monuments erected by alien landlords and tyrants. Should we go out of our way to preserve monuments to those who walked roughshod over us, to Lord Mountjoy and company? Mountjoy Jail is called after Lord Mountjoy. If one were to call it Pádraig Pearse Jail one would be jailed. We are spending money on Mountjoy Jail. Why not spend that money on building houses for our people who so badly want them? There are collections held for every cause under the sun except our own causes. We can fix up all the black babies of Africa. We can do any other thing we wish. Is there any Member of this House who can say that he ever saw a collection held at a church gate to provide a house for an itinerant? I defy any Deputy to say that he did. We are a nation of Catholics but the amount of Christianity in us can certainly be measured without sending for a scales.

I want to bring up a point about river drainage which I held up until the Parliamentary Secretary returned to the House. I would like him to consider the Glenamoy and Owenmore rivers. The Parliamentary Secretary is not heeding me but my remarks will go on the record. I would ask him to see what can be done.

There is a matter that I want to bring up which affects very few Deputies apart from myself. There is a county engineer in Mayo who has failed since he came there years ago to build a gulley, not to mind a bridge. It seems that he has no knowledge at all about building bridges.

The Deputy must not indulge in that type of criticism in the House.

Mr. J. Lenehan

I am 22 years a member of Mayo County Council and I have to defend my own people.

The place to do that, then, is at a council meeting, not to use the privilege of the House.

Mr. J. Lenehan

Wait until I have put the rest of the case before you.

The Deputy has already named an individual.

Mr. J. Lenehan

All right. I will leave that out. The designation of road systems has changed. What was a boreen a few years ago is now a county road, what was a county road is a main road and what was a main road is now an arterial road. Where there are bridges on these roads the Office of Public Works should take responsibility for the bridges because it has become perfectly obvious that the county council officials are not able to make bog keshes, not to mind build bridges. If the Parliamentary Secretary will come on a tour with me I will show him something to open his eyes. There are two bridges on main roads, one of which has been held up for ten years by tar barrels.

That is the responsibility of Local Government. Local Government is the body dealing with roads.

Mr. J. Lenehan

I am making a case for a change, as I think I am entitled to do. There is a bridge a few hundred yards from me. It has been held up for 25 years by planks. I want the Parliamentary Secretary to take over these bridges and to take them away from the county council. His Department would have the staff and, I hope, the competence to deal with them. It has become perfectly obvious that Mayo County Council have just not got the competence to deal with them. I know this is a new case. I said that. I have to get my name in the papers.

That is a very poor reason, I am afraid.

Mr. J. Lenehan

I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to consider this question. I understand that the Government are taking over arterial roads and I would ask them to take over the bridges. In my territory bridges have been held up by tar barrels, one for at least 12 years and the other for about two years. Another bridge has been held up with match sticks for 25 years. Seeing that county councils appear to be completely unable to do anything with these bridges, I would suggest that they should be taken over by the Office of Public Works. I can assure the Parliamentary Secretary that as far as Mayo County Council is concerned we will facilitate him in every way possible. When this situation has continued for such a length of time it is obvious that we must change our ways and our methods.

I must thank you, Sir, for the way you have always treated me. I would again ask the Parliamentary Secretary to consider the matter I have mentioned. If he would send his engineers to deal with the bridges, even if we have to pay for them, he will be doing us justice.

I should like to compliment the Parliamentary Secretary on the increase in the Estimate this year. I would agree with Deputy Sir Anthony Esmonde that the Office of Public Works seems to be relegated to a very poor position by the Fianna Fáil Government. The Parliamentary Secretary in charge of the Office of Public Works should hold a place in the Cabinet because of the importance of that Office from the point of view of rural Ireland.

During Question Time frequently I have tried to hammer home a few points, although I realise it is difficult to do this in view of the limited time allotted to questions. I should like to refer to the dredging of Dingle harbour. This contract was placed with an English company on the recommendation of the Office of Public Works and it is to their shame that they arrived at this decision. When State money of more than £130,000 is being spent in a locality, one would think that adequate homework would be done by the Office of Public Works. In Dingle the dredging scheme in the harbour is regarded as the farce of the 20th century. These may be regarded as strong words, but the type of machinery that is being used and the manner in which the dredging is carried out is unbelievable. However, the taxpayers must pay for the cost of the work and fishermen from Dingle and from other coastal areas will suffer because of the work that is being carried out.

The type of dredger being used at Dingle is not suitable. It was transported by lorry to Cromane and it requires ten feet of water before it can be operated. When one sees a dredger like this trying to get a depth of ten feet at certain points near the pier it is obvious that the right kind of machinery is not being used. When the tender is filled with slush and rubbish it is pulled by tug to the mouth of the harbour where it empties the slush and waste material. However, all of this waste comes in with the incoming tide with the result that the beaches are polluted.

Roinn na Gaeltachta were kind enough to put up the money for the improvements and one would think that adequate homework would have been done by the officials. This scheme was supposed to be completed in June but in my view, and this is shared by the local fishermen, it will never be completed. If the scheme is continued as it is at the moment, there may be certain incidents in Dingle harbour which will not make nice reading. The fishermen have been waiting for 15 years to get the harbour dredged but what is being done is not what they want.

In the dredging contract there was also provision for an extension to Dingle pier. In reply to a Parliamentary Question the House was told that this work would start in April but to date nothing has been done. The Parliamentary Secretary should tell the House if the extension to the pier will ever commence. He should put on the record of the House how many contractors tendered and how long have the Office of Public Works been trying to get a contractor to carry out the necessary improvements. These questions must be answered. I have put down a question for tomorrow and I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will tell the House the facts about this matter at Question Time or in his reply to this debate.

I should like to place on the record of the House the fishermen's appreciation of the Parliamentary Secretary who came to Dingle not long ago and saw for himself what was going on. Perhaps he may not be at liberty to tell the House what he said to the officials but he saw what was happening. This is a welcome trend and I hope other Departments will adopt the same course. When they allot money it should be the job of the head of the Department to see that the work is carried out in a satisfactory manner. The Parliamentary Secretary spent five or six hours at Dingle and I am sure he formed his own impressions after his meetings with the fishermen.

I should like to refer to a point mentioned by Deputy Lenehan, namely, the matter of a drainage charge. It is time that this was made a national charge and not put on the local authorities. In my county we have two drainage schemes. The county council are presented with a bill and at the estimates meeting they are told that they must pay perhaps a sum as large as £75,000 towards maintenance of drainage schemes. No explanation is given as to how the money is spent and this is a source of grave dissatisfaction to councillors.

The Parliamentary Secretary should tell the local authorities that he will hand over maintenance of the schemes to them if they can do it more cheaply. It is wrong for any Government Department to tell a local authority that they must pay a certain amount whether they like it or not. If the county council decide not to pay, what will happen? The money will be deducted from the road grants and the Office of Public Works will get their pound of flesh. Any local authorities prepared, from their own resources, to carry out maintenance to existing schemes should be allowed to do so. Many local authorities think they could do a better job at a cheaper rate. In Kerry there is a charge of nearly 30p in the £. This is excessive.

There are a few other points that I would like to raise and these concern strictly county problems but so far as a rural Deputy is concerned, county problems can be as important as national problems. The first of these points concerns the Maharees peninsula which is a very unusual peninsula. If coast erosion continues there at the rate at which it has been occurring during the past ten years it is possible that within the next five years there will be an island in the Maharees. Already the main road has been breached in several places and there have been threats of flooding of houses in the area. The Parliamentary Secretary produced a fine Estimate in which local problems were dealt with in much detail and in relation to the Maharees he said that an investigation was being carried out. However, I must emphasise here the urgency of the situation. I must appeal to the Parliamentary Secretary to have work carried out there because unless action is taken in the very near future the people of the area will be cut off completely. I hope that the investigation will continue and that next year the Parliamentary Secretary will be able to tell us in his Estimate speech that a certain amount of money is being allocated for the alleviation of the hardship that is being experienced in the area.

About this time last year the Parliamentary Secretary met a number of deputations from various counties. When the members of these deputations were leaving their respective areas they had high hopes of being able to come back with some money for the alleviation of the problems of coast erosion in their respective counties. Unfortunately, they were dismayed to learn from the Parliamentary Secretary that only a certain amount of money was available to deal with the problem of coast erosion and that when that money was divided there was very little for any major coast erosion scheme.

People living along the west and south east coasts are entitled to have their lands protected. It is a shame to see acres of fine land being eroded each year. The spending of a relatively moderate amount of money now would result in saving many acres of land. In this respect, however, the Government are being penny wise and pound foolish. I appeal to the Parliamentary Secretary to use his influence at Cabinet meetings for the purpose of having more money allocated to this serious problem which is causing great concern to the various local authorities in the western counties. In my own county the road at Ventry is almost eaten away. The same applies to the main road at Slea Head.

If land is offered for sale in any particular county and if it is adjacent to an historic monument or a beach, I think the Office of Public Works should have power to acquire it. Visitors to this country, especially continentals, are always interested in seeing our ancient monuments. Unfortunately, however, the roads leading to such monuments are often very narrow so that if a number of cars are parked on the roadside a great problem is created for local people who may wish to drive tractors along these roads. Every effort should be made to acquire land that will enable these roads to be widened and thereby allow for a free flow of traffic. With all due respect to the continentals, some of them do not care very much about parking laws when they are here. The provision of more car parks near places of interest would be helpful.

Another matter that causes me concern and which the Parliamentary Secretary may elucidate in his reply is that of repair work carried out on Garda stations. I know there is an increase for this purpose in the Estimate but I wonder whether this work is carried out under the contract system or whether the matter is simply one of jobs for the boys? We never see a public advertisement in the newspapers seeking tenders for these jobs. It is possible that there are small contractors in the different localities who would be willing to tender for the work if they were given the opportunity. Every person in this State, if he so wishes, should have the right to tender for this type of work. There is no point in the tenders being offered only to a select few, as has happened in the past. Perhaps some official in the Office of Public Works considers it too much trouble to place advertisements for these jobs in local papers but such advertisements should be inserted in the local papers so that local men would be given the opportunity of tendering for these jobs.

Why was machinery like cranes, et cetera, taken from Killybegs during the past week by officials of the Office of Public Works? Where were they taken to? The House is entitled to know. The hopes of the Killybegs fishermen were raised when they saw these cranes erected and they thought this was the improvement they wanted for their fishing service. Then the cranes were taken and to where, nobody knows. Somebody said they were taken to Mayo. I wonder are they setting up another biscuit factory in Mayo. The Parliamentary Secretary should allay the suspicions of the Killybegs fishermen. I got correspondence from them today, I suppose because I am the Fine Gael spokesman on fisheries. Their worry is: is their port being shoved down the list for some reason or another? These fishermen are entitled to an answer because Killybegs is one of our leading fishing ports. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will assure them that what was taken will be put back.

(Cavan): I do not propose to delay the House very long on this Estimate. Before dealing with the points I want to raise, I should like to say that I find the Parliamentary Secretary and his officials very courteous in my dealings with them. I find that when one raises a query it is dealt with fairly promptly and in a courteous and informative way. That does not mean I am satisfied that the Office of Public Works are operating efficiently or in the best possible way. I suppose they are operating as efficiently as the red tape permits.

The Office of Public Works are charged with the responsibility of housing the various offices of Departments of State in Dublin city and in the provinces. In the exercise of that function the Office of Public Works should have more jurisdiction. It must be quite frustrating for the Parliamentary Secretary and his officers, who are charged with the provision of office accommodation throughout the country for Departments of State, to find that when a property comes on the market they have not got authority to purchase it but must operate from one section to another before getting authority to purchase. By that time the property in which they are interested has been purchased by a private interest or other concern.

I raised this matter on this Estimate last year and I propose to continue to raise it until the Government decide to give the Office of Public Works sufficient jurisdiction to enable them to compete with private individuals for the purchase of office accommodation. The Office of Public Works should have a limited jurisdiction within which they could operate. A scale should be drawn up which would enable them to purchase property in one zone, or one county, or one region, up to a maximum of £X,000 provided a senior officer in the Office of Public Works thought it was wise to do so. I do not believe that any such system prevails at the moment. I do not know what kind of system prevails. It takes months to get authority to purchase a property for £5,000 or £6,000 in a provincial town. That must be because the Office of Public Works have to operate through the Department of Finance. Some junior officer goes out and looks at the property in question, or, perhaps, a report is got from the clerk of works in the area, and it is submitted to somebody in the office who considers it and submits it to somebody else, and so on up the scale.

I am not speaking extravagantly when I say that the operation of deciding whether or not to purchase a modest property in provincial Ireland takes months literally. We know that from the time a property comes on the market until it is sold by public or private auction, a few weeks or a month at most elapse. Last year I gave instances of a couple of properties in my own area in which the Office of Public Works were interested. They did not purchase them when they first came on the market. They were bought by some private interest and a few months later the Office of Public Works bought them at a handsome profit to that person. That is not in the public interest.

Very often they let property go by default and "by default" I mean they do not purchase it when it comes on the market but come in later and rent it at a substantial rent, which is bad business. I hope I am making myself clear on this point. I believe that there should be an officer or a committee within the Office of Public Works with authority to act and act quickly in the acquisition of property by purchase when it comes on the market and is suitable for their requirements. I am satisfied that that system does not prevail at the moment. I sympathise with the chairman of the Office of Public Works and his officers who must be hamstrung and frustrated by having to stand, in the words of Deputy L'Estrange or some other distinguished personage, idly by when property is up for sale. It would be more economical to purchase these properties, in rural Ireland especially, rather than to build them or rent them.

I also raised a point last year which I feel I must repeat this year. When the Office of Public Works acquire property or demolish property they should see to it that it is preserved in a neat and tidy condition and not left as a derelict site and an eyesore in the locality. This happens. When a property is not immediately required by the Office of Public Works, when it is not in current use, it is simply forgotten and it usually stands out as an example of the worst kept property in the locality. That is not in the interest of the towns concerned. It is a bad example and it is certainly not in keeping with the tidy towns competition.

I come now to the subject of drainage. I was disappointed—indeed, I was alarmed—to hear the Parliamentary Secretary say in reply to a Parliamentary question here recently that it would probably be ten years before the drainage of the River Erne was reached. A great deal of land in my constituency is rendered useless and unproductive because of flooding caused by the River Erne. The Minister for Finance and the Parliamentary Secretary should get their priorities right. Cavan is a county of smallholders who have no occupation other than agriculture. They depend entirely on agriculture for a livelihood. I do not think I am flattering the farmers of Cavan unduly when I say that they have the reputation of being industrious workers. They have to be because they have no tourist industry and very little other industry and they have, therefore, to rely on their small farms. Every acre of land is important. It is certainly very important now in the context of the Common Market. I appeal to the Parliamentary Secretary to use his influence to get the drainage of the River Erne speeded up. I think he told us that he has some kind of cost/benefit study in progress. I hope this study will project Cavan as a county worthy of immediate attention. No worthwhile drainage has been done in Cavan for very many years. The farmers have come up here on deputation after deputation and have been promised that something would be done; they have gone home and awaited results but the results have been nil.

As well as the River Erne there is the Woodford Canal. The opening up of this canal would serve a dual purpose. It would relieve the flooding of agricultural land and it would also serve as a tourist amenity since it would connect the River Erne with the River Shannon. Last year the Parliamentary Secretary held out some hope here that something would be done about this canal, either by himself or the Minister for Transport and Power, or, perhaps, both. I should like the Parliamentary Secretary, when replying, to deal specifically with the drainage of the River Erne in so far as it affects Cavan and with the opening up of the Woodford Canal. The canal has been on the stocks for a very long time. Successive Parliamentary Secretaries have received deputations about it. The opening up of this canal would connect Northern Ireland with the Republic. I think this is a worthwhile project and one which should get serious consideration from the Parliamentary Secretary.

There is provision in this Estimate for the Houses of the Oireachtas. The Houses of the Oireachtas do not reflect any great credit on the experts in the Office of Public Works. We have a system of heating and air conditioning which would serve as an example of how heating and air conditioning should not be carried out. It is difficult to understand how this type of heating and air conditioning could have come to be installed. I have asked myself on numerous occasions whether there is anybody in the country who knows anything about air conditioning or about central heating. If there is, we certainly have not had the benefit of his advice in the installation of the system here. The atmosphere is most uncomfortable. It is a most unhealthy atmosphere in which to work.

There is also some provision for the late President Kennedy Memorial Hall. We really should get on with this or else forget all about it. It crops up here every year. It is becoming a bit of a laugh. There is an expenditure this year of £5,000. The Parliamentary Secretary made only a passing reference to it. We should get on with the job. It is now going on ten years since the tragic assassination of President Kennedy; if we are serious about this, we should do something about it.

I am glad that something is being done about the provision of accommodation for the gardaí in Dublin Castle. There is great dissatisfaction there. The gardaí believe they are being housed in accommodation long since abandoned by the civil servants. In the communications centre the accommodation is grossly inadequate. There is a staff of four to deal with all incoming and outgoing telephone calls. The result is that the whole place is jammed up and that it is entirely unsatisfactory.

A sum of £4,000 is being provided in the current year for the provision of accommodation for female clerical assistance in Garda stations. That must be grossly inadequate. Only in recent times were female clerks employed in Garda Stations and if only £4,000 is to be spent this year on accommodation for them in what up to now were exclusively male quarters, it must be a very poor job that is being done if the total estimated cost is £8,000 and only £4,000 is being spent this year. I approve of the provision of houses for married gardaí. The Department of Justice should have garda houses at its disposal through the country to facilitate the transfer of gardaí where this is found desirable. It frequently happens at present that where a garda requests a transfer or his superiors think he should be transferred, this is not possible because he is married and cannot get suitable accommodation in the town to which it is proposed to transfer him. I think some of these houses were being provided by the National Housing Agency but unless I am mistaken they have slowed down.

Token provision has been made for the transfer of the Department of Education to Athlone and of the Department of Lands to Castlebar. What stage have these arrangements reached? It will cost £1,650,000 to provide accommodation in Castlebar for the Department of Lands and estimated expenditure to 31st March, 1972, was £25,000 and for the current year £40,000. Do these very small sums cover plans or professional fees? Perhaps I am trespassing on Deputy Cooney's area when I come to Athlone but I see that the cost of the buildings there is estimated at £1,250,000 of which £18,000 was provided last year. The estimated figure for Athlone is again £40,000, the same as in Castlebar. Is this mickey-mousery or are the Government serious? Since these two items are of national interest the Parliamentary Secretary when replying should tell us if the £18,000 has been spent. They have not said that anything was spent. The estimated expenditure in respect of Athlone to the 31st March, 1972, was £18,000 and the estimated provision for 1972-73 is £40,000. There is the same pattern for Castlebar. The House and the country are entitled to know what, if anything, has been spent in these two centres and, if it has been spent, on what it has been spent and on what the two sums of £40,000 for the current year will be spent, or if they will be spent at all. Was the £18,000 spent last year?

I am glad that the new post office in Cavan has been completed. When it was begun it was completed reasonably quickly and it is regarded as a good job and a fine building. I should like to thank those concerned on its completion.

There are many other things with which one could deal but the particular bee in any bonnet regarding the Board of Works is its lack of authority in the purchase of buildings. I shall conclude, as I began, by saying that if this office is to serve the country as it should it will have to get more jurisdiction; it will have to be trusted; it will have to include a section with authority to purchase suitable buildings in Dublin and in provincial towns for office accommodation or other purposes within its sphere of operations. I do not know whether it is lack of money or lack of trust but I can see this matter from both ends. I see it as a member of the legal profession interested in the buying and selling of property. I see property going up for sale. I know the Office of Public Works are interested in it but if you were to wait until they had authority to buy you would have to advertise it for 12 months. Afterwards, I can see them renting it or, perhaps, purchasing it from the person who bought it. This is not in the interests of efficiency and I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will get from the Government the sort of authority I advocate.

I propose to be brief on this Estimate. The Parliamentary Secretary has reported on his prowards posals for the coming year. By and large, he and his Department have been doing a very good job. They cover a wide range of activities involving harbours, canals, rivers, coast erosion, national monuments, Houses of the Oireachtas, the Civil Service, the Garda and practically every building occupied by State employees. To satisfy all demands at any particular time would probably absorb all of one year's budget. We are faced with deterioration of existing buildings and we know that either their sale and replacement or their reconstruction is required. In so far as the efficient working of the Civil Service, the Garda and other people is concerned, I would be the first to urge the Office of Public Works to make available as quickly as possible adequate modern, good, working facilities for these people. There is no doubt in my mind that to obtain the best results from these employees of the State, one must provide them with the best conditions expected as a norm today.

We have down through the years sadly failed to consider the provision of proper office facilities for our civil servants, and, indeed, for the Garda and many other sections, and it is going to take huge sums of money to do this properly. We all know that there is on the Statute Book for many years now an Act providing for minimum conditions in which people will work in offices and that it has not yet been applied, so far as I know. This job falls on the Office of Public Works in so far as the Government are concerned, and one can sympathise with them in the planning and programming and the selection of the priorities in relation to how the limited amount of money made available each year can best be spent to produce the best and quickest results at a particular time.

If I concern myself with my own consituency, I will not be out of turn if I say that on the list of priorities— it is listed, and I hope it will remain listed, and that we will get on with it, although it is fairly low down—is the drainage and catchment area of the Owenmore river and its tributaries. I have spoken on this ad nauseam to not alone the present but the previous Parliamentary Secretary to try to get this survey completed and the necessary detailed work done, but one tends to lose hope as to when it might or might not be done. A new element always creeps in, that is, the feasibility study of a scheme and whether the money spent on a particular scheme could not be better spent somewhere else.

People in this House have accented the value of agricultural land, have done so in terms of value. I would accent it in a slightly different way, not on its value but as an asset of the nation, which has a productive value but also has a social value, and we all know that while farming tends to become more and more looked upon as an industry rather than a way of life, it is largely yet a way of life for many of our people in the poorer parts of the country. They have not got down yet to a full realisation that it is, in fact, a section of our industry and that its careful exploitation must be undertaken and the maximum benefit obtained from this asset. They are being, and are, held back by the slowness in relation to drainage problems. We talk about rivers like the Owenmore and any other river in Ireland, and, indeed, about the Woodford canal in which I have an interest for years. These also are necessary to be done so that ordinary simple drainage schemes a long way from the outfall into these rivers are effective and that land which is going sour from being waterlogged for years, farmers not being encouraged to fertilise and lime these lands, can be sweetened up, and we all know that this can be done. This is the feasibility study that is being done on many rivers at present, and the catchment area related to the cost.

I still feel that even though it may not appear to be a viable proposition to drain a particular river, one has to bear in mind as we must as a Government, the social content in all this work so far as residents in that area are concerned who are endeavouring to the best of their ability to obtain a minimum living and that is about all they will ever be able to hope for. Neglect or delay of these drainage schemes will bring with it frustration and hopelessness and deterioration in the hopes and aspirations of the farmers. I would urge that these schemes be given a somewhat higher priority because of this very factor alone, as well as the fact that they can, will and do contribute to what is commonly known now as the gross national product, and do also provide for the psychological, psychiatric condition of our people living in these areas when they see hope and progress ahead of them rather than facing frustration for years, which means that many of them ultimately collapse because of falling interest, which, unfortunately, has its side effects which do not concern us in this Estimate. I make this the No. 1 priority. All the other things are important but they must take their place in the list of priorities, and we must concern ourselves, in the expenditure of money, with those which have the greatest social benefit as well as contributing to the growth of our economy and of our national income and earnings.

I was surprised to hear the Deputy from Cavan say that no work had been started on the Woodford Canal. I thought I had read that some machines had been moved in there and that this work was being done by and with a Bord Fáilte grant. I am sure Deputy Fitzpatrick is right but I must check out that position because I understood we were proceeding with it, although the drainage of the Erne was a matter of consultation between the two Governments in this island. Because of the present position this has been more or less forgotten.

This area of Cavan, Leitrim and Fermanagh is one where immediate co-operation is necessary because this problem exists on both sides of the river and on both sides of the Border. I would urge that this should be done. The opening up of this canal from Lough Erne into the Shannon, which is known as the Woodford-Bally-connell Canal, would have a definite tourist potential. It would attract many people. It would benefit people in Leitrim, in Cavan and in Northern Ireland. I look upon it as our total national territory and for the benefit of all our people. I would like to see schemes attended to in Border areas which would benefit people on both sides of the Border.

Coming back to Sligo, there was a tragedy there at the weekend involving two fishing boats in which four people lost their lives. I cannot express in words my sympathy with those families. I knew personally the people who lost their lives. Luckily enough, Enniscrone pier, into which they were coming, was improved many years ago and, as far as I know, this tragedy did not occur because of any neglect but because a strong wind turned the boat over. I shall merely comment that I have been told—I do not know how true it is—that fishermen and men who go to sea in ships seldom learn to swim. I have met a number of fishermen who have told me they do not know how to swim. In some other time and place this should be looked into and those who derive their livelihood from water and its products should all be trained in life-saving and should certainly be able to swim.

I have asked the Parliamentary Secretary to look into the question of coast erosion at Enniscrone. There is a serious problem there. I know it has been surveyed and I hope work will commence in the not too distant future. Each year it is neglected the cost becomes greater, apart from inflation.

The Office of Public Works are responsible for the provision of national schools. We know that some national schools are not fit to be used for any purpose and are certainly unsuitable for children. One would like to see a rush programme carried out in this field.

Some Garda stations leave a lot to be desired and housing accommodation for gardaí should be looked into. In every centre where there is a garda there should be a house in which he could live rather than leaving him to his own devices to find a suitable house at a reasonable rent. The price of houses in rural areas and towns is exorbitant at present and rents are high because building costs are high. It is a strain on a garda not knowing where he will be required to serve, at least in the early years of his service, to be posted from station to station, sometimes not able to get "digs" if he is a single man or if he is a married man unable to get a house. The case of married men should be examined. I believe that houses for gardaí should be built and that the commissioner should transfer married gardaí to areas where services, particularly education services, are available. They do this in so far as they can, but I would like to see more of it done. For a married garda to be posted to a town where there is a secondary school is of great benefit to him. If he is posted to a town where there is not a secondary school he must send his children away and despite the availability of buses and so on it is a risk. I should like to see the need for the provision of day rooms, detention rooms, and so on noted.

I welcome the restoration of abbeys. The present incumbent of the office of Parliamentary Secretary has a ready ear for such proposals. He is always prepared to see the cultural value of some of our older buildings and, where possible, to have them listed for preservation. I was in Thurles recently and I went out to Holycross. It was nice to see that very old abbey with its historical associations being restored as a parish church and brought back into use. I first saw it about 15 years ago and hoped something would be done. I wrote a note about it at that time, even before I came into the House, pointing out that the abbey was in a good state of preservation and should be restored, I would compliment the Deputies representing the area who have helped in its restoration. The work has been well done.

There are many monuments throughout the country. In Sligo there is a tremendous number of megalithic burial grounds and tombs of all descriptions. I do not know why there should be so many in Sligo. One would have to read a great deal of history to find the reason. One can only conjecture.

The work being carried out in the passage graves near Drogheda is very commendable. I do not know the amount of money earned there. It would be interesting to know the return obtained from the money expended. I regret that I had not time to look it up. I am sure it is contained in the Book of Estimates.

The Moy River has been drained. This river rises in Sligo and flows through Mayo. Along the river there are many spoil heaps. I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to report to the Commissioners of Public Works the fact that some of these spoil heaps are being dumped back into the river. They should consider the feasibility of making these spoil heaps useful to farmers on whose lands they are deposited. For some 150 feet in from the river one very often finds the best land on a farm. The spoil heaps are thrown up on this firm ground. The farmer realises that this is a valuable sector of his land and is anxious to get back the one acre to four acres that he has lost by the drainage. Even though he may have been compensated to some extent for the loss of the land, the farmer is anxious to get that portion of land back into production. Some of these spoil heaps are disappearing slowly but surely. They are being disposed of into the river from which they were taken. If this should continue to happen, the drainage work will be undone. Unfortunately, there are people in our society who are capable of dumping these spoil heaps back into the river. The Office of Public Works should consider what can be done about this matter. Where a farmer is determined to rid himself of a spoil heap this should be done with some measure of control and there should be some measure of incentive so that the practice of undoing drainage will not continue. It might fall to the lot of some other body to clean up these rivers again at a later stage and to maintain them. We do not want this as a serious and growing burden.

Deputy Fitzpatrick referred to the air conditioning in this House. I have suffered the same discomfort as Deputy Fitzpatrick has mentioned. At times it would appear that the air conditioning is not working or, at least, that the thermostats are not working to control it in accordance with the plan. I am, however, satisfied that the work was carried out in a satisfactory way. It would be unfair to criticise the Office of Public Works except, perhaps, in regard to the maintenance and as to the checking of the thermostats. Experience has taught me that mechanical services require the constant supervision of a very skilled engineer, who should know the purpose for which the plant is intended. The maintenance engineer may be qualified for the job or it may be new to him or he may be somewhat careless but I am satisfied that something will be done about this matter. I could strongly support Deputy Fitzpatrick in regard to this matter. If this is the best we can do by way of air conditioning and heating, we have a great deal to learn in this field.

Air conditioning is not of itself a particularly difficult problem but it does require the right type of engineering expertise to plan and instal. It is most important that there should be proper maintenance. Any piece of machinery will be delivered in satisfactory working order but it will continue to work satisfactorily only if it is properly maintained. The same applies to air conditioning. I do not think that there is anything wrong with the planning of the air conditioning in this House but I do ask the question as to whether the maintenance engineer is sufficiently knowledgeable to ensure that the plant works satisfactorily. The restaurant is certainly overheated and uncomfortable to sit in for any length of time. The temperature there is far too high. The temperature planned and designed should be maintained and it should be thermostatically fixed.

Thermostats are delicate things and the person in charge of them should know all about them and should know when they are not working properly. They can be deceptive even to a very experienced person. They may require special attention from time to time.

I should like to compliment the Parliamentary Secretary and the Office of Public Works on the work they carried out last year and on their plans for the future. I would ask them to consider the priorities and to ensure that the needs of the people are given every consideration.

I should like to compliment the Parliamentary Secretary and his officials on the courtesy they have shown me on any occasion I consulted them. One always gets a prompt reply from the Office of Public Works although I admit that when it comes to results a different situation arises. However, I do not blame the Parliamentary Secretary or his officials for not carrying out all the work we would like to see done. As the previous speaker has pointed out, this Department have responsibility for public buildings and parks, for drainage works, for Garda stations and schools. When one considers the many works that are involved one can see that the increase in the Estimate for 1972-73 is not sufficient.

I was impressed by the fact that a sum of more than £500,000 has been provided for buildings for computers and other buildings for the Revenue Commissioners. It is proper that we should have adequate office accommodation and a sufficient number of staff, but I think the sum mentioned shows the extra revenue which the Exchequer is getting. I think they should be able to devote more of this revenue to the Office of Public Works because in rural Ireland they have a considerable impact on many local matters.

I should like to mention a few problems which have arisen in my constituency. First, I should like to thank the Office of Public Works for the work they have carried out in the Kilkenny Castle grounds. They have carried out excellent work and it is being maintained in a satisfactory manner. I should like to compliment the people of Kilkenny on the use they are making of the grounds. I had some reservations about the way public property might be respected in this park but the work carried out was done in such an excellent manner that people had respect for it.

On a number of occasions the local authority contacted the Office of Public Works about a dangerous railing in the park. It overlooks the river Nore, and I think it can be regarded as the loveliest spot in the park. The Office of Public Works were to investigate this matter and ensure that the railing was made safe. At the moment it is dangerous because a small wall is located outside the high railing and it is a magnet for young people who stand on the wall. Underneath the wall there is a drop of 80 feet and I am afraid that some young people will be injured. Having regard to the magnificent work done by the board in the park, I am sure it is not beyond their ingenuity to preserve the lovely aspect of the area while they make it safer.

I am pleased to see that a sum of £20,000 is being spent on the restoration of the picture gallery wing of Kilkenny Castle. This is a fine old castle and it is a pity it is not open to visitors. The local art gallery society are anxious to acquire portion of the wing in order to hang valuable paintings which cannot be displayed at the moment. If they could be accommodated in Kilkenny Castle, I am sure that the display of pictures would prove an attraction for many people in Ireland and elsewhere.

I was pleased to see that a sum of £10,000 is being spent for the erection of a visitor centre at Dunmore Caves in Kilkenny. This is a worthwhile project and it is something that will be appreciated by visitors to the area.

The Office of Public Works have done useful work in Kilkenny National Park and in the John Kennedy Park which I visited recently. First-class work was carried out on both projects and the Irish people can be proud of what has been done. Nowadays a large percentage of the population have cars and at this time of year many of them visit such centres and they are appreciative of what has been done to provide such amenities.

The Kennedy Park at New Ross is laid out in an excellent manner and is well maintained. A considerable amount of work remains to be done but from what I could see progress is being made. As well as being deserving of credit, the Office of Public Works must be criticised in some respects. One of my criticisms concerns the provision and location of Garda barracks. These buildings should be situated in prominent positions in towns and villages so that people would not have to go to some back street to find them. Visitors often have much difficulty in finding Garda barracks. When sites are acquired in future, every effort should be made to get them in prominent positions even if it means that the cost involved will be greater.

I have some criticism to make also regarding the condition of Garda barracks generally. Mostly they are not kept in good repair and, invariably, when one visits the dayrooms one finds them in a dilapidated and unkempt condition. Well-kept dayrooms are the exception rather than the rule. These rooms, too, are usually very badly furnished. In this respect it is easy to see that the feminine touch is lacking because I do not believe that women would tolerate the condition of dayrooms as we see them in Garda barracks. So far as I know the gardaí cannot buy as much as a sweeping brush without the permission of the Office of Public Works.

Perhaps the Minister for Justice would have something to say on that.

I understand that permission to buy such articles must come from the Office of Public Works. These dayrooms present a grim spectacle to visitors to this country.

The Office of Public Works should ensure that houses are provided for married gardaí who are transferred from one place to another because very often a garda may have to live for some time away from his family because of a shortage of housing in the area to which he is transferred. Another criticism I have to make in this regard concerns the delay in carrying out repairs to garda dwelling houses. Recently I found it necessary to make representations to the office concerning repairs to the house of a garda the my constituency. When I raised the matter first 12 months ago, I was told that the work would be carried out without delay. Six months later I received the same answer to my representations. Last week I tabled a question on the matter so, perhaps, the work will be done now. I hope so because the repairs are absolutely necessary. More consideration should be given to matters of this nature. It must be remembered that members of the force have to rear their families in these houses and we should ensure that they have at least the minimum comfort.

Regarding stores for Posts and Telegraphs lines, I also have some criticism to offer. A store or an exchange that was adequate some years ago would not be adequate today. In Kilkenny a new exchange has been built in the centre of the town but there is no provision of facilities for extension of the stores. There should be more foresight in these matters. In many areas employees at these stores have to work under difficult circumstances.

My main complaint this evening concerns arterial drainage. I am very disappointed to note, that instead of being increased, the sum of money allocated for this purpose this year has been reduced from £1,76,000 last year to £878,000. When one takes into consideration the increases that have taken place in the cost of labour and materials, it will be seen that this amount will enable only half the amount of work to be carried out this year as was carried out last year. Apparently, this is the policy of the Office of Public Works because in reply to last year's Estimate, the Parliamentary Secretary told us that the percentage of the capital budget being allocated for arterial drainage has been diminishing consistently during the year.

This is a sad state of affairs. The question of drainage in my area is a very thorny one. Down through the years there has been agitation on the part of people in the Kilkenny area to have the Nore drained. I do not know how the list of priorities is compiled but regardless of how it is done, one cannot argue but that the Nore should have been drained many years ago. So far as I can see it is no nearer to being drained now than it was 20 years ago.

In his brief the Parliamentary Secretary told us that there is a new method of considering matters of drainage and that there is a survey being carried out of drainage on a cost/benefit basis. In his brief of the 18th July, 1971, he told us that social consideration rather than economic returns would be taken into consideration in respect of drainage. I can assure the Parliamentary Secretary that under either of these headings the Nore should have priority. As Deputies will be aware, this river flows through one of the richest valleys in Ireland but because of flooding large tracts of land are rendered useless every year. This is a loss of valuable land. The farmers in these areas get benefit only for half the year and they find it impossible to get rates relief although the rivers are not drained to allow them make use of their land.

We have a long history of flooding in Kilkenny. In 1947 I was a small boy and I remember people getting out through the top windows of their houses into rowing boats at the peril of their lives. I saw them in the 1950s doing the same thing. Year after year we have flooding in Kilkenny city. Large sums of money are spent by the Office of Public Works on the preservation of monuments. We have the oldest abbey in daily use in Kilkenny, the Black Abbey run by the Dominican Fathers. It is flooded every year. The rector of the Dominican Abbey—no blame to him—had a stand up fight with the local authority, but what can the local authority do? They cannot drain the river. This old abbey is a landmark. It is one of the features of the city and it is visited by large numbers of tourists every year. It is costing the Dominican Fathers large sums of money to try to keep it open. It is becoming almost impossible for these unfortunate men to keep it in repair.

Thomastown is flooded year after year. People are living beside the river in low grade housing. They are flooded at least once a year and sometimes two or three times a year. Their houses are damp for the reminder of the year and they have not got the resources to dry them out properly. They have not got the resources to provide heating to dry them properly and put them in a good state of repair. Three years ago this month the people of Kilkenny thought the Nore was going to be drained. Two men appeared in a boat on what we call the town pond which is a straight stretch of slow flowing water running through the centre of the city. They did great work for a fortnight or three weeks and everyone said: "At last the draining of the Nore is under way."

Unfortunately, it turned out to be a gimmick before the election and we have not seen sight nor light of a boat or a man on the River Nore since. I am not sure if the survey has been completed. I have made inquiries and I am told there is no money for this work at present. The men from the Office of Public Works doing surveys were shifted out of the area. This is an appalling state of affairs. The local authorities, local committees and the people in general are tired of agitating for the drainage of the Nore. This work should be at the top of the priority list but, unfortunately, it is way down on the list. The Parliamentary Secretary should have another look at his priorities and bring the drainage of the Nore up to the position it should occupy on the priority list.

I want to thank the Parliamentary Secretary for his courtesy to me and the efficient and prompt attention he has given to any problem which I have brought to him over the past 12 months.

Coming from the proposed new town of Tallaght I feel I owe it to my constituents to take part in this debate. It would appear that this proposed new town of Tallaght with 130,000 inhabitants has been forgotten by most of the Departments. I fail to find in the Parliamentary Secretary's speech of 18th May, or in this list of moneys proposed to be expended, any mention of work to be carried out in that town.

I note that it is proposed to extend a sum of money to improve the Dáil Chamber. There are other matters in this House which are in far more urgent need of attention than the installation of a simultaneous translation system from Irish into English. Since I came into this House last December 12 months, I have spent a fair amount of time in the Chamber and when I was not here I spent a fair amount of time in other parts of the House listening in to what was being said. Only twice did I hear our native tongue being spoken. No doubt it was spoken more often than that but I still think we are not justified in the expenditure of this £5,000.

There are many things in need of attention around the House. I refer to the heating system which was mentioned so often this evening. I do not think I have ever been in so uncomfortable a building from that point of view. On making inquiries shortly after coming into this House I was told it was a new system and that it needed some adjustments and attention to get it to work right. That was 18 months ago and there is no improvement. I do not see anything in the proposed expenditure this year to improve the heating system.

I should also like to draw attention to the division bells which were installed recently. I find it difficult to interpret this new bell. I do not know if any other Deputy has found the same difficulty, but last week I actually missed a division. I heard the bell but I did not think it was a division bell. Some may say that it is new and we will get used to it in time. The bell is newer than I am and a great deal newer than another Deputy who has been here for quite a number of years; he was with me on this occasion and he made the same mistake as I did. Neither of us answered the bell. It was fortunate that this was not an important division.

I should like to draw attention now to the approach to this House. The approach could do with a facelift. A number of wires run right across the front of the House. Presumably they are intended to run on the ledge but they are falling down in many places. Surely these could be fixed up properly.

There is, too, the hut on the righthand side as one approaches the building. I have made many inquiries as to its intended use but so far I have failed to elicit any information. If it is a temporary structure I think a better job could have been done. If it is intended to be a permanent structure a much better job should have been done. Something more pleasing to the eye should have been erected.

With regard to the proposal to raise the glass screen around the public gallery to ceiling level. I see nothing in favour of this proposition. I do not know the purpose or in what way it is intended to improve the Chamber. I doubt if there are any who would abuse the privilege of being admitted to the public gallery. Again, raising the glass partition will certainly make it very uncomfortable for those who wish to spend some hours here listening to the debates and better ventilating will have to be installed. I doubt if any Deputies would disagree with this £5,000 being spent on some of the other things I have just mentioned.

I have seen the ushers here in the same uniform all the year round, surely they could be provided with a lighter uniform for the summer. Last year Deputy Kenny made a good case for providing them with a lighter and a more attractive uniform. I have already referred to the heating and the air conditioning and the discomfort suffered. How much greater must be the discomfort suffered by the ushers going about the House, seeking out Deputies, clad in these heavy uniforms. The Parliamentary Secretary would do well to give some consideration to this.

Deputy Fitzpatrick referred to the John F. Kennedy Memorial. People are fed up to the teeth because there is no progress of any kind. I doubt if anybody really knows what the intention is. Perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary could prevail on the Government to give him the green light for the provision of a park in County Dublin. There are so many areas in need of recreational facilities that I doubt if anybody would object to the Government providing the money for a John F. Kennedy Memorial Park in the new town of Tallaght. I have visited the park in Wexford. It is a very fine job. Speaking of memorials, the Government have at last seen fit to allow the Army to be represented at——

The Deputy is moving away now from the Estimate.

——at Béal-naBlágh to commemorate General Michael Collins. It is about time the Office of Public Works allocated some money for the improvement and upkeep of the road leading to this memorial.

Scoil Eanna, Rathfarnham, is again mentioned in the Estimate this year and I should like to compliment the Parliamentary Secretary on the tremendous work done there. It has been a great asset to the area. The availability to the public of the playing fields and the park in general since September or October of last year has been a great help to many local organisations working in the area to keep children and teenagers off the streets. But perhaps the Parliamentary Secretary would look at the entrance there. I have received complaints from local residents unable to get prams in or out. I have not had time to find out which entrance this is but I think it is the main one leading to the playing area. There was a local suggestion that this entrance should have been put on the other road.

A sum of £290,000 is being provided for the work of the Department of Justice for the erection and improvement of Garda stations. I do not know how far this money is expected to go but if I were in charge of this office I could spend this money in the Dublin area alone without feeling I had done a good job. If one compares the Parliamentary Secretary's introductory speech with that of the Taoiseach on Monday, 22nd May, at the dinner of the Civil Service Association it is difficult to see where a start is being made. If the Taoiseach is serious about making a determined effort to maintain law and order, he must first see that he has the manpower to do the job and in order to build up the manpower one must first provide the facilities.

Conditions in many Garda stations throughout the country are not encouraging for any young fellow who feels he could serve in the Garda. Many Deputies can speak for the Garda stations in their own constituencies. I have visited many stations in constituencies outside my own but on these I shall not comment further. I shall confine myself to the station which serves my immediate area. On a recent visit to Tallaght Garda station I was appalled at the condition of the cell I was shown in which prisoners were forced to spend many hours. Luckily for them, prisoners are not held there overnight. I do not think this is a room in which any human being should be asked to spend five minutes. Something should be done about this without delay. The building itself is not fully used. The day room was used for a town of 3,000 people five years ago or to take in the area which the station served one could put the figure at about 5,000 people. Today in the new town of Tallaght we have 16,000 people and the same room is being used and being used by some extra gardaí also. At present I am told the force there is ten gardaí and two sergeants compared with seven gardaí and one sergeant five years ago.

The number of prisoners handled there on one Sunday—7th May—was 13. From 1st October, 1970 to 1st May of the following year 42 prisoners were handled there but from 1st October, 1971, to 1st May, 1972, the corresponding period, 114 prisoners were handled in the same area. The same area is being used by the Tallaght gardaí despite the fact that they have increased in number and that the town has more than trebled its population. Each week 150 social welfare recipients sign on here in a room in which general Garda work is carried out. This is not good enough for any area much less in an area where the first new town is being built since the State was founded. The Parliamentary Secretary would do well to examine conditions in that Garda station.

The figure for indictable crime in the area in 1970 was 77 and it was 124 in 1971. There is a tremendous increase in Garda activity but the facilities available to the gardaí are the same as they were ten, 15 or 20 years ago.

There is a 25 per cent increase in this expenditure this year.

But none of it is going to Tallaght. That is my point.

I would have to check that. Overall, there is a big increase.

That is a very welcome increase, but the point I am trying to make is that where we have, as I say, the building of the first new town since the State was founded, expenditure for the provision of better Garda facilities is not forthcoming, as we can see from the Estimate.

Much the same applies to the Estimate for the Department of Posts and Telegraphs. I cannot find anywhere in the Estimate provision for the improvement of the postal and telephone services in the town of Tallaght and I would have thought that with such a population explosion there, the Board of Works would have provided money for the building of a new sorting office and telephone exchange. I could deal at length with how difficult it is to get a telephone in Tallaght but, perhaps, the Leas-Cheann Comhairle would not permit me to do so.

The Deputy knows that the Parliamentary Secretary is merely an agent for various Departments and can only do what the Departments assign to him to do.

I could answer the Deputy now but, perhaps, I should leave it for my reply.

I think that some provision should have been made for a new telephone exchange and sorting office there. It would appear that Tallaght has been completely forgotten in the Estimates for the Office of Public Works.

It is stated in relation to the Estimate for the Department of Education that 21,570 new pupil places were provided and that a further 7,000 places were made available in prefabricated units. When I move around the constituency, I have the habit of dropping into the schools and I visited a school site recently where the Board of Works had provided some prefabricated structures. I have nothing against the provision of prefabricated classrooms. In fact, I think they are very commendable, very speedy, and very often an area will need extra school places for a short number of years and these can easily be moved on, but it is important to parents and pupils alike that the Department should pay more attention to the type of prefabricated structures they are providing.

We on the vocational education committee have had reason to call on the Department to permit us to provide prefabricated classrooms on many sites, and for the most part, one could not fault them, but last year when we were providing the classrooms on the site at Tallaght, I discovered to my amazement that the classrooms were arriving without cloakroom accommodation. I got in touch with the Department and these, after some arguing, were speedily provided, but I visited a primary school site recently where classrooms had been provided which I think are far below the standard we should be aiming at, because not only were there no cloakroom facilities but one walked into this square box and the minute one went through the door, one was in the classroom. The Parliamentary Secretary should look into this matter and see if it would not be worth the extra expenditure to provide a classroom where when one goes in from the open, one is in a hall and not imediately in front of the pupils and teachers.

This is necessary not only from the point of view of visitors or people who may have reason to call there, parents, but it is also unnecessary from the point of view of the comfort of the classroom itself, and no classroom should, I believe, be provided without cloakroom facilities for the hanging of coats, because on one site in Tallaght classrooms were provided and the toilet block was in the centre of the site, the cloakroom being across the site in another prefabricated structure, so that the pupil on arriving in the morning, had to cross the school site in hail, rain or snow, leave his coat in one prefabricated room and return to the one in which he was being taught, and when he found it necessary to leave for whatever purpose to cross to the toilet block, he again had to cross half the site without the protection of his overcoat. This to many people may not seem very important, but to the pupil and to the parents of that pupil it can be very important. In providing these prefabricated rooms, I should like to see at least the facility of coat hangers.

It is stated that "The new range of school furniture designed following the introduction of the new curriculum is now available and will be supplied to all new primary schools in future." I wonder from what date that takes effect. What about the schools being provided this year and those provided last year? Again, when I visited a school recently, I discovered to my amazement that there was neither chair nor table for the teacher and the only shelf available in that school was what was provided by the teachers themselves out of their own pockets.

Not only should the Office of Public Works assist school managers by providing the class rooms and schools which are necessary but also in many of the areas which are fast developing many a school manager finds himself in dire financial straits and some consideration should be given to the provision of money for the purchase of sites. I do not know whether I am going outside——

The financing of schools, either sites or otherwise, is a matter for determination between the manager and the Department of Education which notifies the grant to the Office of Public Works.

Many of the things I have mentioned I have no doubt are the responsibility of the school manager but it is no harm to make the point that many school managers in the developing areas need some assistance, more than the Department or the Office of Public works are prepared to give them. This was my point. I hope the Parliamentary Secretary has got it. If he has, I shall move on.

I should like to refer to moneys provided for the preservation of ancient monuments. I do not think we in this country have ever done enough in this regard. If we were to make money more freely available to local committees, who are prepared to do quite an amount to preserve these monuments, we would be doing a good job. Far too often monuments are allowed to get into a condition from which it is almost impossible to bring them back to their original state. I should like to refer to the appeal made recently by the Dean of St. Patrick's Cathedral. It would be well if the Parliamentary Secretary's office gave some attention to this appeal because not only has it been made to all Irishmen, of all creeds, but also, I feel, to the Government.

There are few buildings in this city which reminds us more of our history and heritage than St. Patrick's Cathedral. It is unique in history and it deserves some assistance from the Government. I understand that, as the law stands, the Government cannot give any assistance because it is used by a religious denomination as a place of worship. I have seen laws changed here in a very few hours and I think it is time we had a look at this one because here is a cathedral which is not only dear to the heart of every Dubliner but has something to offer to every Irishman. It is worthy of preservation and it should not be left to a few generous people to contribute the £250,000 which is being sought for renovation in an effort to bring it back to its original state. I think we are the only country in Europe which cannot give assistance to such buildings simply because they are not owned or held in some way by the State. On the continent I understand the governments in most countries take responsibility for the upkeep of the exterior while the church or body which have the building have the responsibility for the interior upkeep. In England, Scotland and Wales, and indeed in Northern Ireland, the convenant scheme is in operation. This would be an excellent way in which the Government could contribute to the restoration of St. Patrick's Cathedral. Again I understand it requires a change in legislation but surely it is something that could be tackled. I would certainly like to see the Government get around this in some way so that they could make some contribution towards its preservation.

I should like to congratulate the Parliamentary Secretary and his officials for the manner in which this Estimate was introduced. I note that the amount being sought this year exceeds by almost £2 million the total amount voted last year for the corresponding services. We know how most of these increases have been brought about and I should like to go through some of them item by item.

There is no doubt that the method of acquiring additional office accommodation in Dublin must be very costly. It is a very heavy burden on the taxpayers as a whole. The Parliamentary Secretary and the Government should give serious consideration to providing more accommodation in provincial towns for certain Departments and certain sections of Departments. I am very much in favour of decentralisation even on a larger scale that the proposal to transfer one Government Department to Castlebar and one to Athlone. We should weight the benefits to the rural areas and provincial towns, particularly in the west and south west, by virtue of increasing incomes in these areas as a result of a decentralisation policy as against the provision of additional accommodation and better facilities in Dublin. In the long run, decentralisation would be better than continuing to provide additional accommodation in Dublin. It is a very costly matter to purchase sites, acquire premises or rent offices in Dublin. Having regard to that fact and to the benefits which would accrue to the west and south west as a result of decentralisation, we would definitely favour large-scale decentralisation.

I entirely agree with the proposal to provide a building for the computer unit at Inchicore to serve a number of Departments. There should be cooperation between as many Departments as possible in the provision and utilisation of this unit.

I am glad to note from the Parliamentary Secretary's speech that it is proposed to provide a simultaneous translation system, from Irish into English, in the House; that installation will take place during the summer recess and that the system will be fully operational towards the end of the year. I welcome this. It is time that there was such a system in the House. More Irish will be spoken in the Dáil when this system is in operation. The principal complaint by Deputies who speak in Irish is that they are unlikely to get the same coverage in the news media as they would if they spoke in English. This translation system will lead to more Irish being spoken in the House and Deputies will be able to give a lead to the country as far as the speaking of Irish is concerned.

I also welcome the proposal to provide a building at Clonskeagh for the Institute of Public Administration and for the Department of Finance training centre. This building will be used as a training centre for officials of local authorities and adequate training facilities will be provided for all State and local authority employees and for employees of semi-State bodies. This is a major step forward which will result in increased efficiency in State services at national and local levels. It will help to bring out the best in State and local government servants.

I welcome the provision for the improvement of piers and harbours. There should be a priority list available in the Office of Public Works which would be reviewed every three to five years. This would mean that Deputies would know exactly when a pier or harbour would be improved. There is need for the provision of landing facilities for fish at various centres along the coast, particularly in places remote from existing piers and harbours. I have in mind the area between Cahirciveen and Kenmare where the landing facilities are few and far between. There is an area between Sneem and Kenmare which is heavily fished and where the landing facilities are primitive. Schemes should be prepared for these areas and they should be placed on a priority list.

I should like to draw the attention of the Parliamentary Secretary to an old boat of considerable size which is lying derelict near Rosdohan pier near Sneem. This boat is a hazard to local fishermen. I have been in touch with the Office of Public Works on a few occasions and with the county council in regard to this matter. There appears to be some difficulty as regards the ownership of the pier and of the exact spot where the boat is lying. I should like to see this matter resolved speedily to prevent some tragedy occurring.

I was glad to hear the Parliamentary Secretary say that the estimate for the improvement of Garda stations has been increased by approximately 25 per cent this year. There are some stations which require improvement rather urgently. The station at Beaufort, near Killarney, is in a very bad state of repair, as are the residential quarters for the sergeant and his wife. The station in Killarney town should be improved. Considerable improvements were carried out to this Garda station during the past few years, improvements which were greatly appreciated, but there should be a really good Garda station in a town like Killarney where many visitors call to the Garda station for information.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
Top
Share