asked the Minister for Social Welfare the arrangements made by his Department with regard to payments on behalf of patients who are in mental hospitals and who are in receipt of (a) disability benefit, (b) occupational injuries benefit, (c) contributory old age pension and (d) non-contributory old age pension; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Mental Hospital Patients Social Benefits.
28.
The following arrangements apply:
(a) Disability benefit—if the patient is married or has dependent children payment is made to the spouse or to the person responsible for the children. In other cases, such as in the case of a single man, benefit is paid to the resident medical superintendant to administer on the patient's behalf.
(b) Occupational injuries benefit— the arrangements are the same as those for disability benefit.
(c) Contributory old age pension— if a committee has been appointed to deal with the pensioner's affairs the committee is appointed as agent. In other cases either the next of kin or an officer of the hospital authority is appointed depending on the circumstances of the particular case. Where there are dependants and the spouse has not been appointed agent a proportion of the pension may be paid separately to the dependants, or on their behalf, the remainder being paid to the hospital authority on the pensioner's behalf.
(d) Non-contributory old age pension—in the case of pensioners who are detained patients in mental hospitals the resident medical superintendant of the hospital, or a person nominated by him, is appointed agent and the money is appropriated towards the cost of maintenance. The hospital authorities may however use part of the pension for the patient's own benefit. Pensioners who are not detained patients may appoint an agent of their own choice. If however the pensioner is so incapacitated mentally as to be unable to give expression to his wishes and a committee has not been appointed to deal with his affairs an agent may be appointed by the local old age pension committee.
Would the Minister not agree that the arrangement does not appear to be a very satisfactory one, particularly at the RMS in each hospital is far too busy to personally administer the fund? It means that somebody else must get the job of handling what can be a very substantial amount of money if there are a large number of patients there. Would the Minister have any idea how the money is administered—he says on behalf of the patients? Has the Minister any idea how it is administered?
The Deputy says that the RMS is far too busy to personally look after it. However, he is nominally responsible, and surely he can delegate the duties to his office. In fact, this is what happens. It is dealt with reasonably satisfactorily. We do not have many complaints.
What evidence has the Minister that it is administered satisfactorily? Would the Minister say if there is a specific regulation governing how the RMS may delegate his authority in this matter or what happens the funds which are accrued on behalf of a patient if that patient either dies or is discharged?
Surely one must rely on the hospital authorities. Mental hospitals have mental hospital boards appointed by the local authority and now we have regional boards. Surely they should interest themselves in this. I was a member of a hospital board for 14 years.
The Minister must be aware that the hospital board in this case would not have anything at all to do with this matter. It is purely and simply a matter for which the RMS is in name responsible. Would the Minister undertake to get some samples from some hospital to find out how the fund is administered, because I am not satisfied that it is being administered satisfactorily in some hospitals.
I would rather say that if the Deputy had any specific cases we would, as we always do, investigate them. I am afraid we must accept the RMS's advice as to the responsibility or otherwise which a patient is capable of accepting.
It is because I am sick handling specific cases on my own that I am asking the Minister to do something about it.
Question No. 29.
In view of what the Minister stated that in certain cases there is money deducted from the pension by the hospital authorities for maintenance, has he checked the validity of this in view of the fact that the payment comes from his Department, especially as under the new Health Act, 1970, and the Health Contributions Act treatment is free in mental hospitals? In view of that would he not question the validity of a hospital holding money from a person's pension? Would he not have a right to do this?
The Department take an interest in patients. Most patients have relatives or friends who are capable of looking after their interests. In the case of those who may be appointed wards of court they are also in the hands of capable people.
What about those cases where the hospital deduct payment for maintenance from the person's pension?
I am calling Question No. 29.
I want to ask the Minister this question.
I have called Question No. 29. Would the Deputy please allow Questions to continue?
In view of the unsatisfactory nature of the Minister's reply I propose to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
I will communicate with Deputy O'Connell.
Is it not the position that the hospital authorities collect the old age pensions and they deduct money from those pensions?