asked the Minister for Education if, in the light of the principle of equal opportunity in education, he will reconsider his new proposals regarding higher education grants from leaving certificate results which place at a serious disadvantage any candidate born outside certain areas.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Higher Education Grants.
24.
Mr. R. Burke
I am assuming that the Deputy is referring to the position in non-Gaeltacht as against Gaeltacht areas. When I tell him that 5,206 pupils from non-Gaeltacht areas secured Grade C or higher in the higher level papers in Gaeilge in 1972 he will, perhaps, agree that there is little basis for the assertion in his question.
On the contrary. Would the Minister accept that there is every basis? The particulars which he gave me yesterday indicate that in respect of the 1972 leaving certificate examination outside Gaeltacht areas less than 50 per cent of the students got honours in Irish, whereas in the Gaeltacht areas practically 63 per cent got honours. Will the Minister not agree that that obviously indicates that a student born in a Gaeltacht area has, as everybody understands, an advantage over a student born in outside areas?
Mr. R. Burke
Yes, but I would not think that that is necessarily a bad thing. I would have thought that both sides of the House would be in favour of discriminating in favour of Gaeltacht areas. We do so by economic grants of all kinds.
With all due respect, the Minister is not answering my question. I am asking him whether or not he accepts that that attitude conforms with the principle of equality of opportunity? Obviously, it does not.
Mr. R. Burke
I am prepared to stand over the decision to award honours as an incentive to Irish and I think I have the backing of the community for that policy.
I do not want it to be assumed that I am in any way against it.
The Deputy must ask a question. He may not make a statement at this stage.
Is the Minister suggesting that the purpose of granting or equating one honour in Irish with two for the purpose of higher educational grants is a subsidy for the Gaeltacht areas?
Mr. R. Burke
Not a subsidy but an incentive, because, as the Deputy well knows, the percentage in all-Irish schools is, from memory, 48 point something per cent. It could be argued, for example, that in his own area, in Ballymun, an all-Irish school would give it a geographical or other advantage here. I think all sides of the House would agree that it has been the policy over the years to give some advantage in terms of bonus marks, for example, in certificates to those who deal with the Irish language and I do not think we should cease at this point.
The Minister is straying from the point I make. I am concerned with equality of opportunity.
I am afraid we are entering into an argument on this question and I have got to pass on. I allowed the Deputy a reasonable number of supplementary questions, I think he will agree, and I know him to be a very reasonable man.
If the Ceann Comhairle would allow me one more I should be very happy.
Just one more.
In regard to all-Irish schools, the point I make is that not every student is blessed with proximity to one.
Unfortunately, the Deputy is not helping me by way of asking a specific and a relevant question.
Is the Minister now indicating that the purpose of equating an honours pass in the leaving certificate Irish examination is to co-operate with students in Gaeltacht areas?
Mr. R. Burke
Not specifically Gaeltacht areas. It is for the purpose of giving an incentive to all students all over the country to pursue the subject Gaeilge at a higher level as I mentioned at my Press conference.
We shall have to pass on.
One final question.
The last question was the Deputy's final question, on his own admission. I have got to pass on to Question No. 25.
This is the final question.
We must pass on. On the Deputy's own admission his last question was his final one. We must move to Question No. 25. I have given the Deputy every latitude.
With your permission, I shall raise the matter on the Adjournment.
We must have some finality. If the Deputy is intimating that he wishes to raise the matter on the Adjournment I shall communicate with him.