asked the Minister for Defence if he was consulted before the British Army squad apprehended by the Garda in Clones, County Monaghan, on 25th May, 1973, was released.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - British Army Border Infringement.
41.
The question of consultation did not arise.
As military personnel were involved, does it not seem strange that the Minister was not consulted?
As the Deputy is new to this House, perhaps he does not understand what the situation is. The military personnel were not involved; Garda personnel were involved. The law of this State states that the Army is only called out to aid the civil force, and this must be done by a high ranking officer of the civil force. As there was no need for this calling out of the Army in aid of the civil force the gardaí were able to look after the incident themselves and the Army was not, in fact, called out.
Is it not true that the Army had investigated certain explosions in the area and may have had evidence that would have linked these men with it? Has the Army passed any of that information over to the Garda?
I have no information such as is suggested by the Deputy, nor do I accept what the Deputy has stated to be true. I know he believes that this information is true but I have no such information. What happened was that the entire matter was dealt with by the gardaí. At 10 o'clock the following morning when the routine liaison visit to the Garda station at Clones was performed by an officer of the Cavan military post he was informed of this particular incursion. He was only so informed because it had happened. There was no need for the Army on that occasion but I would remind the House that in that part of the country the most modern radio communications are available so that if the Army had been needed they would have been there. They are on the job in that part of the country and will continue to be.
Since this was the first instance in which British military personnel made an incursion of this kind into the Twenty-six Counties while being concealed in a van that carried no identification, is it not strange that the Department of Justice did not communicate with the Minister for Defence especially when there was evidence to prove that the incursion continued for a distance of two miles this side of the Border?
I do not accept any of the statements made to the effect that evidence exists as to anything. What I am saying is that in this particular instance the Garda were capable of dealing with the situation and that if they had needed any help, that help would have been available immediately. We are doing our job in that area and will continue to do so.
Question No. 42.
Is the Minister telling us now that he is not receiving communications from the Department of Justice and is he aware that the Minister for Foreign Affairs, answering yesterday for the Minister for Justice, said there was evidence and that what Deputy Leonard said was substantially in accordance with the evidence available to the Minister? Why, then, should the Minister for Defence tell us that there is no evidence?
I do not accept anything of what the Minister for Foreign Affairs said, who quite clearly in his——
(Interruptions.)
Wait now.
Order, order, please.
——replies said he was answering for another Minister. I do not accept that anything he said in his reply has any effect on my position here and that position is that I am charged with the duty of ensuring that Army personnel are available to the civil authorities when they are required, particularly along the Border and where there are vital installations. Army personnel are available in the strength required and that will continue to be the position.
Deputy Callanan rose.
The Chair has called Question No. 42.
This is unfair treatment. I have not been here very long but I know a little about procedure.
We must pass on to Question No. 42.
A serious position has been disclosed. Apparently, so far as the Minister for Defence is concerned, he is responsible only for that Ministry and will not share in collective responsibility.
(Interruptions.)
We must move on to Question No. 42.
The Minister for Foreign Affairs said that some of what Deputy Leonard said was correct but the Minister for Defence has said there was no evidence——
The Chair has called the next question several times.
I deprecate Deputy Colley's remarks and I quote from the reply given by the Minister for Foreign Affairs yesterday to Questions Nos. 31 to 33 :
Dr. FitzGerald: I did not suggest that everything Deputy Lemass said was incorrect. There are significant instances on which it differs from mine.
What did the Minister say in response to Deputy Leonard's supplementary?
Are the people on the other side of the House in favour of security or not?
The Minister should not chance his arm. Is it not a fact——
We must move on to Question No. 42.
——that the Minister for Defence is boasting about forces and equipment that were provided by the Fianna Fáil Government?
We have debated this question long enough. The Chair must be obeyed in these matters.
I am not boasting about forces or equipment. I am merely telling the Deputy what is my duty and what I will do. The problem for the people on the other side is that they know what I will do.
It seems that these incursions are now permitted.
On a point of order——
Will the Deputy please sit down and let us have the answer to Question No. 42?
——I made an attempt to ask a supplementatry but was not allowed ask it.
That is not a point of order.