Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 14 Jun 1973

Vol. 266 No. 4

Committee on Finance. - Adjournment Debate : British Army Border Infringement.

Mr. Leonard

When I was returned to this House, and during the period since then, I have given quite a lot of thought to the subject matter of my maiden speech. The attitude of the Minister for Foreign Affairs, in answering a question put by me to the Minister for Justice yesterday, and his failure to give a satisfactory reply on the Clones incident, has forced my hand to avail of this opportunity to make my maiden speech.

Before I put the shameful facts regarding the handling of the Clones incident before the House, perhaps it might be as well for me to prove my bona fides to speak on this matter. I was born the son of a small farmer on the Monaghan-Fermanagh border in an area that is practically the geographical centre of Ulster. Not only are my country and my province divided by the Border but the diocese to which I belong, Clogher, and also my parish of Rosslea are divided also by it. I have walked and cycled every yard of the area concerned in this instance. I represent people of all persuasions in the area. These are Godfearing people who wish to live in peace. They are people who depend on a trusted and competent police force to keep them safe.

This area is one of many small unapproved roads. In fact, nine out of ten of these roads have been cratered during the past number of years and bear a massive scar as a result, so much so that even a blind man would have little diffculty in knowing that he was approaching the Border. As if the condition of these roads was not enough to identify the Border, there is a huge yellow sign about 100 yards on the Northern side of the Border indicating that one is approaching the Border. That line is painted on the roads in six-foot lettering. Therefore, the suggestion that the patrols concerned crossed the Border innocently and accidentally does not stand up to examination.

We are told that the patrol wandered across the Border accidentally and we have the word of a British officer as given over the telephone that this is what happened. Apparently, the Minister is prepared to accept that, but I am not willing to accept it nor neither are the people in my constituency willing to accept it.

The facts of the case are known to them and they must be known to the Minister also. I wish to quote from a report that appeared in The Irish Press of Saturday, May 26th, 1973.

BRITISH TROOPS HELD AT BORDER FAMILY'S SAFETY FEAR

A Government investigation is being considered into a Border incident when an armed six-man British Army unit was detained for questioning by gardaí in Clones, County Monaghan, yesterday.

The unit, travelling in an unmarked van, were halted at a checkpoint in the centre of Clones, County Monaghan, disarmed by a large force of gardaí and taken to the local station, where they were held for more than four hours.

Two soldiers were dressed in civilian clothes and the driver at first told gardaí they were from Belfast. They later admitted they were members of the Royal Artillery based at Lisnaskea Barracks.

It was the second Border crossing into Clones in the past year.

A British Army officer said later that the patrol had taken a wrong turning and had inadvertently crossed the Border, as had happened before.

He denied that the unit was a snatch squad seeking a wanted man.

RELEASED

The unit was released and given a Garda escort to the Border after their story was checked with the RUC. Reports on the incidents were later sent to the Departments of Justice and Foreign Affairs.

Last night a County Monaghan family claimed that the unit had spent a considerable time at their residence, and that one soldier had been knocking at their door with a rifle.

Mr. Frank McMahon (22), who lives with his mother, Mrs. Elizabeth McMahon, at Clincarrick, near Clones, said they were too afraid to open the door, and had their suspicions aroused when the van appeared to drop somebody off and then kept cruising around the place.

"I have no doubt this was the same unmarked van which the gardaí later found the British army using in Clones," he added.

Mr. McMahon said that he now feared the future safety of the family, in view of the fact that there had been a number of unsolved mystery killings in the Fermanagh border area during the past year.

I would point out that the squad were apprehended when approaching Clones from the east and that they would have been up to two miles from the Border at one point. They were not two miles from the Border at the point at which they were apprehended but they travelled on the Monaghan road and the first crossing on that road is a mile and a quarter out of Clones. If that is added to the three-quarters of a mile from the Diamond ill Clones to the nearest point of the Fermanagh border, the distance is two miles so that they would have travelled at least that distance in the Twenty-Six County area. Clincarrick lies on the west side of Clones so that the directions are opposite. Apparently, the squad were given the courtesy of an escort to the Border at the Minister's request but when that sinister group were apprehended by good police work, charges could have been made against them under the headings of giving false addresses, of the driver not holding a driving licence, of carrying arms illegally in the State and of illegally wearing the uniform of the armed forces of another State within the jurisdiction of this State and without permission.

The Minister for Foreign Affairs said yesterday that there was no question of this incident affecting the morale of the police force. I could not accept that. However, there is no doubt that it has affected the morale of the people of all persuasions in that area. Some local happenings in Clones recently included a number of houses in the main thoroughfare being damaged by a bomb blast and it was only a miracle that saved many innocent people on that occasion. There was also the case of a young man who, on arriving home from a dance at midnight, was parking his car across the road from where he lived when he was maimed by an explosion as a result of which he will he deformed for life.

From investigations I have madeI am sure that the Minister has available to him also the information that is available to me—I am convinced that the group apprehended by the gardaí were a British Army snatch squad and that they were touring around the area on a kidnapping errand. I am not concerned here with affording protection to an illegal group in this part of the country. My views on such matters are clear and are on record but I am concerned that the people of my area are now living in fear of being kidnapped by a snatch squad and that they would appear to be in that danger with the goodwill of the Government.

This occurrence was very serious and can only leave British Army units confident that when they undertake missions such as this, they can do so without any worries other than being a few hours late should they happen to be apprehended. I am satisfied that a serious mistake was made in ordering the release of this squad and I have no doubt that the Minister is well aware of that. I ask him, please, to restore the confidence of the people of my constituency and to do that by making an honest admission of error and by giving a firm assurance that the law will be applied firmly in any such circumstances in the future.

Mr. Wilson

In view of the very strong case which has been made by Deputy Leonard there is some cause for concern. One speaks on a matter like this with considerable care. In view of a rather crude suggestion made by the Minister for Defence while he was speaking this afternoon, that if one expresses concern about this situation one is not anxious for the security of the State or for peace, I wish also, as Deputy Leonard did, to put on record that I subscribe to the policy of my party in its concern for the security of the State and for the achievement of our political aims in a peaceful manner.

However, there seems to be something going on here that merits the attention of the Government. I suggest that the Minister for Foreign Affairs should correspond with the appropriate Minister in Britain and request him to instruct the Officer Commanding the British forces in the North of Ireland to see to it that there is no deliberate crossing of the Border. The excuse that is given generally is that a mistake was made, but in view of what Deputy Leonard has said, it seems rather difficult to accept that people will be wandering around scarred roads and roads that are very well marked for two or three miles and arrive in a sizeable town, as towns go in that area, and not know where they are. If they are making mistakes, then it is time that lessons in topography were given to the troops.

It seems also that lessons in good manners are required as well and respect for the police authorities of this country. From what I gather from what Deputy Leonard and others have said there are displays of ill manners and illegal activity, if you like, if people give wrong names or false addresses or are going around without driving licences or armed within the confines of the State. Therefore I am suggesting that a communication through the British Ambassador might be sent to the relevant authorities on these matters. The situation—and I am not punning—is an explosive one in the area, and for that reason one has to be careful about what one says. One does not condone violence or confrontation, but we have a duty to see to it that our territory is inviolate and that people who deliberately—and the sin is all the worse if it is deliberate—or by accident come here, behave themselves in accordance with the laws of this part of the country.

Mr. Colley

To the best of my knowledge, although I speak subject to correction on this, in previous incidents which have occurred of British troops crossing the Border, they have always been uniformed. It is quite understandable that there could on occasions be mistakes made. I do not accept that all crossings of the Border that we know of by British troops have been by mistake or under misapprehension, but I do accept that some of them were and it is quite understandable that it could be so. However, I regard one aspect of this incident as being particularly ominous and sinister and one which the Government should not tolerate. It is the fact that on this occasion we had some British soldiers armed coming into our territory apparently quite deliberately and not in uniform; in other words, as far as any citizen of this State was concerned who happened to come into contact with them, these were armed civilians. I regard this as an extremely serious matter. I am quite sure the Government also regard it as a serious matter, but I think that the urging of Deputy Wilson of the making of strong representations to the British Government on this matter is a very sound one.

I also think that the Government ought to, and I hope will, through the Minister's reply, reassure people, particularly in Border areas but throughout the State as well, that this kind of thing will not be tolerated. It is important, as Deputy Leonard pointed out, that no member of the British forces should be left under the impression that this kind of thing can be done with impunity. The implications and the potential for danger involved in this kind of incursion in civilian clothes is extremely serious. It is so serious that I feel the Government must be well aware of it and will, I hope, apart from its approaches to the British Government, be in a position to allay fears among the citizens of this State and to reassure our people, in so far as we can ensure it, that this kind of incursion, particularly of this sinister type, will not occur again.

Minister for Foreign Affairs (Dr. FitzGerald)

First, I hope it will not be out of order for me to convey my congratulations to Deputy Leonard on his maiden speech, which was a very effective presentation of his case. Secondly, before I proceed with my remarks I will make it clear that I am here replying for the Minister for Justice and I must not trespass on the territory of the Minister for Foreign Affairs. I say this because I have a question down to me on this subject for next week and clearly I must not impinge upon that area. Deputies, I hope, will not press me outside the area of the Minister for Justice in what I am saying today. I shall be happy to deal with the question next week in my own personal responsibility.

Mr. Colley

Perhaps the Minister will pass on the Deputy's suggestion to the Minister for Foreign Affairs?

Dr. FitzGerald

I think that could be arranged. First of all, let me repeat the reply which I gave yesterday to the question put to me :

The responsibility for this or any such decision rests with me as Minister for Justice. The decision was made because it was considered to be the appropriate one.

That was the reply given to the question put down yesterday. Without wishing to go into detail, let me say that some of the facts that have been alleged do not seem to stand up. It has been suggested yesterday—and I think again it was implicit in what Deputy Wilson said today—that wrong names were given. Our information does not suggest that that is true. On the contrary, when asked, names were given which were checked out and which appeared to be correct, as far as I understand.

Mr. Leonard

I may have said wrong addresses but I did not mention wrong names.

Dr. FitzGerald

I am sorry. I thought Deputy Wilson said something about it. Anyway the point was made yesterday that wrong names were given. There are no addresses. They give their name and rank.

Mr. Leonard

They could——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Minister has only ten minutes and he must not be interrupted.

Dr. FitzGerald

The information given to the Garda Síochána by the people concerned was verified and it turned out to be correct with regard to themselves at that particular point, so there must be some misunderstanding. Also I think there is some misunderstanding on the question of the time alleged to have been spent at the home of Mr. McMahon. Yesterday it was suggested they were there for an hour.

Mr. Leonard

I said an hour elapsed between the time they were at the house and the time they were apprehended by the Garda.

Dr. FitzGerald

That was not my understanding of what was said but in any event, the fact is that a much Shorter period elapsed between the time when they were alleged to have been at the house and the time when they were detained coming into Clones in the opposite direction. Therefore there are differences on points of detail. But they do not take away from the fact that this Government views with concern what happened. I do not want to diminish that in any way. I think it is fair for us to say on both sides of the House that our forces operating along the Border, many of whom are people who are not familiar with the terrain, Garda Síochána or Army people drawn from other areas, have no record of straying frequently across the Border. I know the Border is complex but our own experience shows that the Garda Síochána and troops from other parts of the country can be so trained as not to stray across the Border on a relatively large number of occasions. We naturally feel in this Government that that is something that should apply to other forces as well. I admit that the Border in this area is not only complex but is the most complex part of the whole Border. It is that part of the Border where there are contiguously areas in County Monaghan and County Fermanagh, neither of which can be reached by road from the rest of the territory concerned. This poses special problems and, in fairness, we must recognise that fact. I have driven through the area myself and I know how comlex it is. Some years ago I think I recall seeing at one point two letterboxes side by side, one red and one green, which indicates the complexity of the Border at this point.

Having said that, it is, in the view of the Government, all the more reason why the particular units of British troops operating in this area should be particularly trained to have regard to these complexities and that in any operations they carry out they should be well informed on the topography of the area to avoid crossing what is certainly a very complex boundary.

On the question of the van and the people in it, I think Deputy Colley is correct in saying it was the first occasion a unit of the British Army has been found in the Republic where all of those concerned were not wearing British Army uniforms. Also, the van in which they were travelling was a plain van. It is not for us in this part of the country to comment on the particular tactics the British Army may find necessary to employ in disguising themselves in the conditions in which they are operating near the Border, where many lives of British soldiers have been lost and where they are seeking to deal with people like the perpetrators of the atrocity in Coleraine.

What we must say from both sides of the House is that, where it is found necessary not to display too publicly the nature of the vehicle or those in it, if that is thought a necessary tactic to save the lives of soldiers—I can understand that view being held by the British Army after their losses there— very great care must be taken that when that tactic is employed they do not cross over the Border, because obviously that gives rise to serious misunderstandings. There is clearly a possibility that the forces on our side of the Border might not understand who they were dealing with if they emerge on our side in a plain van, and if the people visible in the van are not wearing uniforms and are in possession of arms. We view with particular concern the fact that this should have happened in these circumstances. I do not wish to make a comment on the particular tactics employed within Northern Ireland as it is beyond our competence and we can understand the necessity for taking particular steps in view of what has happened in that area. It is especially important that, in an area where the Border is complex and where there is a special danger of mistakes being made, if this particular tactic is to be employed great care would have to be exercised to prevent any recurrence of what happened on this occasion.

Regarding the release of those concerned, as far as I am aware from information at my disposal they were held for very much longer than any British forces who were previously found on our side of the Border. In fact, I understand they were held more than three times as long as on any previous occasion. That is an indication that the matter was not taken lightly and that, in fact, before they were released not alone were steps taken to check and verify the names, but that information was doublechecked and they were not released until they had given an explanation of what they were doing and why they were there. As they had entered Clones from the opposite direction to what they had thought, the explanation was less than satisfactory from any point of view: but it is compatible with the fact that they had lost their way and is also compatible with other explanations. They were not released until a much longer period had elapsed than ever before and not until they had given information that had identified them, which information had been double-checked, and an explanation of the circumstances by which they were there. I should like to emphasise that also.

I think that is all that is appropriate for me to say in my capacity as substitute Minister for Justice. Other matters may arise when I am replying as Minister for Foreign Affairs.

Mr. Haughey

I should like to be fair to the Minister on this point. I should like him to confirm if I heard him correctly say it is not within our competence to comment on the tactics employed by the British Army inside the Six Counties.

Dr. FitzGerald

The Deputy did not complete the sentence. That was the first part of the sentence but I went on to define the tactics to which I am referring and to distinguish the tactics of disguising themselves to a degree in circumstances which may save lives from any other kind of tactics that might be employed. I am grateful to the Deputy for having drawn attention to what could be a misunderstanding but if he reads the Official record he will see there was a complete sentence and I was referring to particular tactics of disguise and no other tactics.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.25 p.m. until 3 p.m. on Tuesday, 19th June 1973.