Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 13 Dec 1973

Vol. 269 No. 12

Ceisteanna—Questions. - Live Animal Experiments.

10.

Mrs. Desmond

andMr. Healy asked the Minister for Health if the Government will support the proposal made by the International Association Against Painful Experiments on Animals that the United Nations, through the relevant specialised agency, should establish a research institute for the dual purpose of (a) collating information relating to research techniques not involving the use of live animals for experimental purposes and (b) studying and developing such techniques as may be adopted in wider spheres of medical and scientific research to replace animal tests.

11.

Mr. Malone

andMr. Kitt asked the Minister for Health if, in view of the increasing public concern regarding the use of live animals for experimental purposes, he will take urgent steps to initiate studies directed towards the development of alternative techniques which could be used to replace experiments on live animals.

Mr. R. Barry

With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 and 11 together.

The use of live animals in experiments is a world-wide practice and the question of establishing a research institute or taking other appropriate steps directed towards the development of alternative techniques to live animal experimentation is one which could only be adequately considered, in so far as a small country such as Ireland is concerned, on an international basis.

Should an international proposal in this matter come before us for consideration I will be prepared to have it sympathetically considered.

12.

Mr. O.J. Flanagan

andMr. Kitt asked the Minister for Health if he will consider banning all tests on live animals in cases where the desired information has already been ascertained or which cannot be shown to be essential for the well-being of mankind, such as those connected with the testing of cosmetic preparations and colouring agents in food, et cetera.

Mr. R. Barry

A person who wishes to carry out an experiment on a live animal for scientific purposes must obtain a licence from the Minister for Health under the Cruelty to Animals Act, 1876.

No experiment may be carried out under the Act except with a view either to the advancement by new discovery of physiological knowledge or of knowledge which will be useful for saving or prolonging life or alleviating suffering, or with a view to the acquisition of such knowledge by persons attending lectures in, for example, medical schools, hospitals or colleges.

All applications for licences and other relevant documents are examined by the medical officers of my Department and I am satisfied that unnecessary experimentation is not being carried out. It would, in my view, seriously frustrate the education of medical and other students if I were to prohibit the use of live animals in experiments carried out for educational purposes. I might mention that only 206 such experiments were carried out in 1972.

The great majority of the experiments carried out in Ireland involve rodents only and are done for ensuring the safety of drugs and medicines for use by man; there is no other way of doing this work at present.

Mr. Kitt

Is the Minister aware that some of those cosmetic preparations are sprayed into the eyes of live animals causing excruciating pain and gross unnecessary cruelty and if other means of testing can be adopted would the Parliamentary Secretary not consider that should be done?

Mr. R. Barry

I would say that was so but in so far as it is possible we will ensure that this pain, or most of it, will not be caused.

Mr. Kitt

I am sure that if some of the ladies who use these cosmetics — and perhaps men in the case of shaving lotions—knew that the preparations were used in experiments causing excruciating pain to live animals they would not be so anxious to buy these products. I ask the Parliamentary Secretary to have this matter again examined.

Mr. R. Barry

I certainly will, but in this country experiments connected with the testing of cosmetics or colouring agents for food would, as far as we are aware, be very rare indeed.

Mr. Kitt

I am glad to hear that.

13.

Mr. Healy

andMr. Moore asked the Minister for Health the reason for the alarming increase both in the number of experiments performed on living animals in 1972 and in the number of animals used in that year for experimental purposes under the Protection of Animals (Amendment) Act, 1965 as indicated by statistics supplied by his Department.

Mr. R. Barry

The number of experiments carried out on animals in 1972 under the provisions of the Cruelty to Animals Act, 1876, based on returns furnished to the Department by the licensed experimenters, was 79,939. The corresponding figure for 1971 was 69,611.

The number of animals used in these experiments was 34,483 in 1972 compared with 26,285 in 1971.

The increases in the number of experiments carried out and of animals used in 1972 were attributable to work done in the Medical Research Council Laboratories and in the Veterinary Research Laboratory in Dublin. The Medical Research Council work was concerned mainly with establishing the safety of drugs used in connection with bacterial diseases and cancer. There is no other way of doing this type of testing at present. The additional Veterinary Research Laboratory work primarily arose out of a special project on "louping ill", a virus disease of sheep and cattle which is transmissible to humans. The object of the experiments was to devise a speedier diagnostic test. This work has now ceased.

Mr. Moore

While we appreciate the need for such experiments, would the Minister consider amending the Act in order that any possible abuse of the freedom given under this Act would be eliminated?

Mr. R. Barry

I certainly will because, like the Deputy, I should like to see that this thing would not go on.