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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 7 Nov 1974

Vol. 275 No. 8

Ceisteanna——Questions. Oral Answers. - Industrial Disputes.

15.

asked the Minister for Labour if he will give full details of the steps he has taken regarding the setting up of a committee or section within his Department to give him advance information regarding forthcoming industrial disputes.

Some time ago I put before the Government a proposal for the establishment of a small unit in my Department which would maintain contact with the state of industrial relations in key sectors.

Among the beneficial consequences of the setting up of such a unit would be the provision of early warning of pending trouble in a particular industry. The need for such a unit was clear in my mind after I had examined the circumstances in which particular industrial disputes had occurred.

For the success of this venture I believe that all persons working in the field of industrial relations should be entitled to apply, with the Civil Service Commission making the final choice from the applicants offering.

The staff association concerned objected to this approach holding the view that appointments must be confined to the Civil Service.

Over several meetings the proposal was put to the staff association concerned that the unit would be administered by a civil servant, that half of the four places in the unit would be confined to civil servants and that the remaining two posts should be open to competition from inside and outside the Civil Service.

I regret to say that the staff association concerned to this date have not accepted this compromise. It is my opinion that the staff association's requirement that only one of the four posts should be open to general recruitment, with the further stipulation that it should be on an experimental basis for a fixed period, seriously militates against the effectiveness of the unit I had envisaged.

This is where the matter stands at the moment. Unless the staff association are prepared to modify their attitude, I regret that it may be necessary to abandon the proposal though I would hope, even at this stage, that agreement can be reached that would enable open recruitment for half of the posts concerned. Fundamentally, the success of this unit depends on the ability of those comprising it. This, in my opinion, can only be guaranteed by a competition for the post which would be open to all those working in this field.

Finally, I must stress that the competition would be publicly advertised by the Civil Service Commission, which would recommend the appointments to be made.

Does the Minister not regard it as a very serious reflection on his capacity as Minister for Labour that he cannot resolve this comparatively simple problem with his own staff or the staff in the public service?

The Deputy probably has a different view of what constitutes a simple problem and a difficult problem. I can assure the Deputy that, despite my best efforts so far, I am faced with the situation where the staff association seek to confine the appointments in this unit to members of the Civil Service. On the other hand, I consider that for the success of the venture all those working in this area, in private industry and within the Civil Service, at least should be entitled to apply for half of the posts involved. That the staff association do not agree with me in that view is regrettable, although I hope they will review the situation. Despite the best efforts of people in my Department involved in this matter it has not been possible so far to gain their agreement.

Will the Minister state how long this has been going on?

The advertisement was to have been inserted in the papers in July of this year. On the eve of the advertisement being put in the papers I was informed the staff association involved would "black" the advertisement. Deputy Haughey will appreciate that in the area of industrial relations the whole success of the venture would have been damaged at the outset had it started in such circumstances. The insertion of the advertisement was delayed in the hope of gaining compromise or agreement. So far, and despite our best efforts, this compromise or agreement has not been obtained from the staff association.

Will the Minister state if he intends to proceed with formation of the unit?

It would be difficult in the circumstances if the attitude which I have outlined persists. It would be difficult to proceed with the proposals I have in mind. Deputies will appreciate that it is essential for the success of such a unit that the field of recruitment should extend to all working in this area. I agree with the staff association that there should be protection of careers but I should have thought this was amply arranged for in that half of the posts were confined to the Civil Service. The remainder at least should be open to civil servants and those outside the Civil Service. If, finally, the Civil Service Commission come forward with four civil servants I will have no quarrel with that if they are the four best available for the unit. My only argument is that I disagree with limiting the field from whence the appointments can be made.

Would the Minister not agree that his function as Minister for Labour is to promote harmonious industrial relations and to solve problems that arise in this area? If he is unable to solve this problem, which is within his own jurisdiction in the public service, not in outside employment, would he accept the good offices of Deputy Dowling or Deputy Moore from this side of the House to bring the matter to a speedy conclusion? They are expert in this area.

I suppose the Deputy's partisan temper has been intensified of late as a result of certain controversies with which he has been associated. However in this serious matter the problem arises as a result of an initiative on my part——

The Minister cannot solve it.

The matter is easily solved by not proceeding with this initiative but since most Deputies, including Deputy Dowling, agreed with the merit of the proposal in the first place, I hope we can get agreement on the part of all concerned. I do not think it will be helped by a silly suggestion such as that made by Deputy Haughey.

Will the Minister not agree that a contributory factor to his difficulty in this matter is that the staff association may be worried from the experience they have already had in their Department regarding the matter of filling jobs or creating "jobs for boys"? Does the Minister not consider this is the staff association's open rebellion to this infiltration into their ranks that has been forced by the Minister?

The subject matter of this question has been broadened out of all proportion.

The Deputy opposite obviously does not understand that all appointments in this competition are in the domain of the Civil Service Commission. Surely he is not suggesting this is a "job for the boys"? All appointments will be filled through open competition.

Will the unit envisaged by the Minister not duplicate the work of the Labour Court?

No, it was seen as a totally separate project. It is important that the Labour Court and the agencies attached to it should be totally outside the control of my Department. The success of the Labour Court has been due to the confidence reposed in it by employers and unions, on their understanding that the Labour Court was separate from the State structure of the Department of Labour.

What I am suggesting is that a unit within my own office would be staffed by competent people who would maintain a round-the-clock watch on particular industries so that we—and I, especially, as Minister— would be in possession of all the information that would suggest trouble on the line for any industry.

Would the Minister then refer the situation to the Labour Court?

The Chair has allowed a fair amount of latitude on this question. We must pass on.

Hopefully, we would assist towards a settlement.

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