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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 15 Jan 1975

Vol. 277 No. 2

Financial Resolutions. - Financial Resolution No. 11: Income Tax.

I move:

That section 9 of the Finance Act, 1968 (No. 33 of 1968), be amended by the substitution for paragraph (b) of the following paragraph:

"(b) to tax recoverable by virtue of a notice under section 8 served after the 15th day of January, 1975, as if the tax were tax which the person was liable under the regulations to remit for the last income tax month of the year of assessment to which the notice relates.".

This resolution anticipates provisions in the Finance Bill concerned with the charging of interest on PAYE tax still due from employers after the end of the income tax year.

The effect is to ensure that in cases where it is necessary to serve formal notices of estimates of amounts due, interest will become payable with effect from nine days after the end of the income tax year to which the underpayment relates. This is achieved by treating the amount of tax found to be underpaid as if it were tax payable for the last month of the income tax year concerned, that is, the month ending on the 5th April. The new provision will apply as respects notices issued after the 15th January, 1975.

Under present law, interest on tax recoverable under such notices of estimates become chargeable only with effect from the end of the income tax month during which the period of 14 days after the service of the relevant notice expires or, if an appeal is lodged, from the end of the income tax month in which the period of 14 days after determination of the appeal expires.

The Estimates which are the subject of this resolution arise after the end-of-year review of employers' PAYE operations. This review takes place following the lodgment of the annual PAYE return which employers are required to make at the end of the year of assessment. When an examination of such a return shows that tax was underpaid and the employer agrees the amount underpaid without the necessity of enforcement action he is liable for the amount of tax due and interest thereon calculated from the relevant month or months to which the underpayment relates.

Where there is no agreement and it is necessary to make a formal estimate and the appeal procedure is availed of, interest does not commence to apply until after determination of the appeal. Since in this type of case the employer is likely to have caused the maximum delay in lodging his return in the first place it is clear that in the case of unco-operative taxpayers there can be substantial delay which can run to six months or 12 months before the underpayment is formally determined and interest commences to apply to it. The provision is being abused by some employers for the purpose of holding over tax due without having to pay interest on it.

I take it the interest on the tax will be interest at the increased rate announced in the budget.

From 6th April onwards, In other words, it will be the new tax year.

The rate announced in the budget today will apply from 6th April to this particular type of interest covered by this resolution. It will be a rate of 18 per cent per annum, the highest rate of interest ever charged in this country. It is scandalous that the Revenue Commissioners should propose such a penal rate of interest. Even the banks, though charging quite high rates, are not charging anything like what is now proposed in this resolution. Because of the state in which the country is, taxpayers in many cases are simply unable, through no fault of their own, to pay their income tax. They are not deliberately trying to avoid payment. The fact is they are on the verge of bankruptcy. Instead of getting some consideration from the Government and the Revenue Commissioners the very opposite is the case because a penal rate of interest will be charged.

The Deputy is under a misapprehension. This will be interest charged on PAYE income tax already deducted by employers but not forwarded to the Revenue Commissioners.

Was I correctly informed by the Taoiseach that as from 6th April it is proposed to charge interest on arrears of income tax at the rate of 1½ per cent per month, which is 18 per cent per annum?

On arrears, yes.

The point I am making is that there are a great many people in arrears at the moment, some possibly of their own choice but a great many through no fault of their own and against their will. Because the economic situation is worse than it has ever been in the last 20 years, they simply have not got the money. I should have thought— indeed, I would hope—that people in that situation, through no fault of their own, would get some consideration from the Government and the Revenue Commissioners. Instead of that they have this extraordinary penal rate of interest applied to them. I doubt if any of the banks charge as high a rate of interest as that proposed here. They may for short-term bridging loans, but their normal rates of interest are well below 18 per cent per annum. Indeed, it is only the hire purchase companies, loan companies and so on which charge 18 per cent interest. It is a sad reflection that the Government are now putting themselves in the same category in their efforts at trying to squeeze money out of unfortunate people who in nearly all cases simply have not got it. It is not of their choosing to be in arrears. They do not of their own choice want this penal rate of interest. They would much prefer to pay tax and they would pay if they had the money. But they have not got the money. It is totally wrong that they should be put in the position in which they will find themselves under this Financial Resolution.

The Taoiseach intervened to indicate to Deputy O'Malley that this rate of interest would apply only in the case of those people who had already collected this tax in the form of PAYE from their employees. The Minister said today that he proposed increasing the rate of interest on taxpayers owing income tax and corporation profits tax. He said the present rate of ¾ per cent per month was outdated and he increased the rate of interest by 100 per cent. A great many business people have been brought to their knees already and it is obviously the intention of the Minister and the Government to keep them on their knees. This is the most drastically penal imposition in this budget.

The introduction of a Financial Resolution like this at this time is a clear indication of irresponsibility on the part of the Government, a Government that has already done so much harm to the industrial situation generally. Small business men are going through a tough time and, because they are, the payment of tax may be delayed. They are faced with difficulty in collecting moneys due to them. Naturally the man who deliberately defaults in the payment of tax is in a different category from the man who is only too anxious to pay tax but simply has not got the money to do that. The Minister for Posts and Telegraphs has a great many people in his constituency who are self-employed or who run small business. This increased interest rate will be a severe imposition on them. It may, indeed, put some of them out of business.

I am as concerned for the people in my constituency as the Deputy is.

This will apply only to tax deducted under PAYE.

Can we confirm that this increase does not come into operation until after the Finance Act?

On 6th April next. There seems to be some confusion. This will apply only to PAYE tax which has been collected but which the employer fails to return. The higher rate does not come in until 6th April.

It is not quite correct to say it is collected. It is not actually paid in cash. What happens is the employees are paid less.

But the tax has not been returned.

Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 65; Níl, 58.

  • Barry, Peter.
  • Barry, Richard.
  • Begley, Michael.
  • Belton, Luke.
  • Bermingham, Joseph.
  • Bruton, John.
  • Burke, Dick.
  • Burke, Liam.
  • Byrne, Hugh.
  • Cluskey, Frank.
  • Collins, Edward.
  • Conlan, John F.
  • Coogan, Fintan.
  • Cooney, Patrick M.
  • Corish, Brendan.
  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Coughlan, Stephen.
  • Creed, Donal.
  • Crotty, Kieran.
  • Cruise-O'Brien Conor.
  • Desmond, Barry.
  • Desmond, Eileen.
  • Dockrell, Henry P.
  • Dockrell, Maurice.
  • Donegan, Patrick S.
  • Donnellan, John.
  • Dunne, Thomas.
  • Enright, Thomas.
  • Esmonde, John G.
  • Finn, Martin.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Cavan).
  • Flanagan, Oliver J.
  • Gilhawley, Engene.
  • Governey, Desmond.
  • Griffin, Brendan.
  • Harte, Patrick D.
  • Hegarty, Patrick.
  • Jones, Denis F.
  • Kavanagh, Liam.
  • Keating Justin.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Kenny, Henry.
  • Kyne, Thomas A.
  • L'Estrange, Gerald.
  • McDonald, Charles B.
  • McLaughlin, Joseph.
  • McMahon, Larry.
  • Malone, Patrick.
  • Murphy, Michael P.
  • O'Brien, Fergus.
  • O'Connell, John.
  • O'Donnell, Tom.
  • O'Leary, Michael.
  • O'Sullivan, John L.
  • Pattison, Seamus.
  • Reynolds, Patrick J.
  • Ryan, John J.
  • Spring, Dan.
  • Staunton, Myles.
  • Taylor, Frank.
  • Thornley, David.
  • Timmins, Godfrey.
  • Toal, Brendan.
  • Tully, James.
  • White, James.

Níl

  • Allen, Lorcan.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Barrett, Sylvester.
  • Blaney, Neil T.
  • Brosnan, Seán.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Brugha, Ruairí.
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Callanan, John.
  • Calleary, Seán.
  • Carter, Frank.
  • Connolly, Gerard.
  • Crinion, Brendan.
  • Cronin, Jerry.
  • Crowely, Flor.
  • Cunningham, Liam.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • Davern, Noel.
  • Dowling, Joe.
  • Fahey, Jackie.
  • Farrell, Joseph.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Fitzgerald, Gene.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Dublin Central).
  • French, Seán.
  • Gallagher, Denis.
  • Gibbons, Hugh.
  • Gogan, Richard P.
  • Haughey, Charles.
  • Brady, Philip A.
  • Brennan, Joseph.
  • Breslin, Cormac.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Healy, Augustine A.
  • Hussey, Thomas.
  • Kenneally, William.
  • Lalor, Patrick J.
  • Loughnane, William.
  • Lynch, Celia.
  • Lynch, Jack.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacSharry, Ray.
  • Meaney, Tom.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Moore, Seán.
  • Murphy, Ciarán.
  • Nolan, Thomas.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • O'Connor, Timothy.
  • O'Kennedy, Michael.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • O'Malley, Desmond.
  • Power, Patrick.
  • Timmons, Eugene.
  • Tunney, Jim.
  • Walsh, Seán.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Wyse, Pearse.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Kelly and B. Desmond; Níl, Deputies Lalor and Browne.
Question declared carried.

I understand that by agreement it has been decided to agree to Financial Resolution No. 12 without debate.

Before you put the resolution, Sir, normally we would like to have at least a short debate on this resolution and very likely we would have challenged a division if time had permitted. I understand that because of the Rules of the House it would not be possible now to have it debated and, more so, not to have a Division. Is that correct?

That is the position.

I take it that, in any event, there will be no restriction on debate on this particular resolution in the course of the general debate.

Certainly not.

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