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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 11 Feb 1975

Vol. 278 No. 1

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Youth Policy.

20.

asked the Minister for Education when he proposes to announce and publish a Government policy for youth.

21.

asked the Minister for Education if he will announce a national youth policy immediately.

22.

asked the Minister for Education when he expects to publish a comprehensive policy on youth development.

23.

asked the Minister for Education when he proposes to announce a youth policy.

24.

asked the Minister for Education if he will give details of his reported £1 million youth plan.

With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 20, 21, 22, 23 and 24 together.

The comprehensive study of the entire youth service which I undertook is at a very advanced stage at present. However, youth policy, as the Deputies will appreciate, cannot be determined in isolation but must be seen as part of a wider educational context including adult education, sports and recreational development.

Decisions will be taken within a wider context, but I feel that until the youth policy document is available for discussion it would be inappropriate to comment further on the policy at this stage. A date has not yet been fixed for the publication of the document but I can assure the Deputies that I am as anxious as they are to have it published at the earliest possible date.

Is it true that over 12 months ago every youth organisation in the country submitted their views on what they thought would be the Parliamentary Secretary's views on a comprehensive youth policy and, so far, no communication at all has been sent to any youth organisation regarding the delay in producing this comprehensive scheme?

The answer is "No" to both questions.

In view of the absence of a comprehensive youth policy, would the Parliamentary Secretary consider appointing regional development youth officers who will be responsible for organising and promoting youth leadership?

I hope that the youth policy will be available in the near future and will outline the measures we hope to take in both the national and the regional context.

Deputy Tunney.

Could I ask the Parliamentary Secretary——

There are four Deputies asking questions and I want to be fair.

This is a very important matter. Could the Parliamentary Secretary give us any idea of what the "near future" means? Youth development is in complete disarray and the Parliamentary Secretary is aware that that is so. Would the Parliamentary Secretary give us an approximate time as to when he hopes to publish this comprehensive youth policy?

I will not give the Deputy an approximate time because I do not wish to make any promise over which I might not be able to stand. However, I would point out that this is the first attempt by any Government at formulating a comprehensive policy in this area.

That is nonsense.

If the Deputy would cease interrupting——

That is nonsense.

Deputy O'Kennedy, please.

That is why the Parliamentary Secretary has been interrupted so many times in the past two years.

What Deputy O'Kennedy has just stated is not correct. However, I shall not go into that. This is not an easy area in which to formulate a policy. There is a great diversity of organisations and needs which have to be taken into account. The subject itself presents obvious problems in finding concepts and realistic targets for a policy and one must have such identifiable targets, I believe, for a policy reassessment if one is not to waste public money. One basic decision I have taken is that youth services should not be isolated either conceptually or administratively from analogous services for other age groups, such as sport and adult education. It immediately follows from this that we also have to have some idea of future plans in such analogous areas as well if we are to see how youth services fit in. I am glad to say that I have a "sport for all" policy now at an advanced stage of preparation.

The suggestion has been made that the non-publication of the comprehensive policy is holding up progress. This may be somewhat overstated. We already operate a flexible grant-in-aid scheme for national and voluntary organisations to one or other of which nearly every youth club in the country is affiliated. There is nothing stopping groups within those organisations coming up with new schemes at this minute so long as they are within the budget of their own national organisation. Indeed, I have been successful in getting reasonably improved resources for this grant-in-aid scheme this year and also in introducing a new flexibility in the form of a new subhead for aid. I have also made it clear that this scheme will continue and that the initiative of voluntary organisations will remain. However, a problem does arise where individual local groups look for special aids outside the context of this grant-in-aid scheme, or where structures are sought to be set up which would create precedents elsewhere. To be fair to everybody, one needs a comprehensive policy in that situation and that is what I am engaged upon.

In connection with this policy and matters the Parliamentary Secretary described as analogous, may I ask him whether or not he has killed the President Award scheme which had been initiated before he took office?

I have not.

Could the Parliamentary Secretary say what is the position with regard to that scheme, a scheme which had already commenced?

I do not think it is correct to say it had already commenced before I took office. I hope to have structures within which such a scheme will fit, perhaps on a pilot basis initially, but I would prefer not to go into it in detail at this stage.

Would the Parliamentary Secretary accept that I, as Parliamentary Secretary, had given a direction before I left office that this scheme should be proceeded with?

I am not so aware, but I am not disputing what the Deputy says.

Then the Parliamentary Secretary must not have read the direction. That is the position obviously.

Would the Parliamentary Secretary accept that various youth organisations, the National Youth Council and the National Federation of Youth Clubs, and all organisations concerned with youth are gravely concerned and have expressed consistent dissatisfaction with the Parliamentary Secretary's failure to promote and publish his youth policy? Does he accept that? Does he accept that they speak on behalf of the youth and they have expressed total dissatisfaction and frustration because of the Parliamentary Secretary's failure to produce a policy.

I will accept that they have expresssed concern but they have not at all expressed total dissatisfaction.

It is a matter of interpretation. We can only interpret their views. It appears that the Parliamentary Secretary does not share the dissatisfaction which the rest of us apprehend from the youth organisations. That is regrettable. Has the Parliamentary Secretary any justification for associating the youth programme with other areas, such as the adult education programme and the recreation programme and, in particular, may we take it now that, if the Parliamentary Secretary fails to take any step in the area of recreation, which he has, in fact, failed to do, that his justification for not taking any further steps towards implementing a youth policy now that he has informed us that all three areas——

This is a speech rather than a question.

I do not agree progress has not been made. Very significant progress has been made in increasing the level of the grant-in-aid last year to youth organisations and in obtaining this year in very difficult economic circumstances considerably improved aid for the same scheme in the 1975 Estimates. When the policies become available it will be evident, I think, and I hope the policy will be available in the not too distant future, that they are in many ways interdependent. The Deputy will agree, I am sure, that it is undesirable that we should have a sort of youth ghetto apart from those provisions in other areas. He will also agree that in many areas the input into youth policy is an educational one given in an informal setting during leisure time and in that way it is analogous to both adult education and, indeed, to the educational aspect of sport promotion. I am anxious to try to see these proposals accomplished to the full. I really merely wish to see a rough outline of where the other schemes are going so that we can go ahead on a more precise and definite basis.

May I ask——

The Chair must deal with other Members' questions.

Who is advising the Parliamentary Secretary in the preparation of this comprehensive scheme?

Numerous people, including the national youth organisations which have been most helpful in coming forward with advice. I have been meeting them repeatedly up to very recently and submissions were received from one of the organisations as recently as early in January.

From the publications it would seem the Parliamentary Secretary is not in contact.

We cannot debate this matter here at this stage. The Chair has been most generous. I will take one final supplementary from Deputy Haughey.

My question is in three parts. First of all, would the Parliamentary Secretary confirm because there seems to be some doubt about it, that he is still committed to the production of a comprehensive youth policy at the earliest possible moment; secondly, would he indicate whether the provision of funds is in any way related to the delay and, if that is so, would he come clean with the House and the people, who are interested in this matter, and let us know the exact situation; thirdly, would he indicate whether the publication in one of the newspapers recently, which purported to be the structure of the comprehensive youth policy he is producing, was, in fact, in any way valid or had any relation to what he is proposing?

The answer to the first part of the question is "Yes". The answer to the second part is "No". The answer to the third part is that the report in question bears a close resemblance to a document I prepared for expressly confidential discussion in relation to youth policy. I did not agree to the release of the document to a newspaper. Obviously meaningful discussions can take place only on the basis of a document actually agreed by the Government. I hope that such a document will be ready for publication reasonably soon.

If the Parliamentary Secretary is sure finance is not holding up this matter, has he some idea of the amount involved and whether anything is provided in the Estimates this year?

Even if I had some idea, I would not disclose it at this stage.

Question No. 25.

The Parliamentary Secretary has no idea. The Parliamentary Secretary said that even if he had an idea he would not disclose it. What is the amount involved?

I have called Question No. 25. The Chair must be obeyed.

May I put a brief supplementary question?

Will the Parliamentary Secretary please reply to Question No. 25 which has been called by the Chair?

25.

asked the Minister for Education why he has not replied to a communication of 10th September, 1974, from Comhairle le Leas Óige regarding the employment of youth officers.

Following receipt of the letter of 10th September, 1974, a letter had to be sent to An Chomhairle le Leas Óige on 27th September, 1974, requesting them to forward copies of the conditions of service of the employees in question——

We cannot hear the Parliamentary Secretary. Will he please repeat the answer?

Following receipt of the letter of 10th September, 1974, a letter had to be sent to An Chomhairle le Leas Óige on 27th September, 1974, requesting them to forward copies of the conditions of service of the employees in question.

I have since then been in touch personally and through officers of the Department with An Chomhairle, with the City of Dublin Vocational Education Committee and with the trade union of the employees concerned in an endeavour to rectify a rather confused situation as to the status of employment entered into between April, 1971, and January, 1973. As a result certain suggestions have been formulated by the Department for consideration by the vocational education committee. These were conveyed in writing to the vocational education committee, on 23rd January, 1975.

Is it the case that the letter of 10th September, 1974, was not replied to until 23rd January, 1975?

That is not the case.

I thought the Parliamentary Secretary said that in his reply.

No, I did not say that.

Would the Parliamentary Secretary mind reading the reply again?

Very well.

Is it not a bit much at Question Time that a reply is read three times? Is this not an abuse of the privilege of Question Time?

I do not wish to abuse the privilege of the House but it appears the Deputy did not hear me.

The Parliamentary Secretary has said that in reply to a letter his Department received on 10th September they sent a query on 27th September but the original letter was not replied to until 23rd January, 1975. There is no point in denying that. It takes five months to reply to a letter.

Is the Parliamentary Secretary saying he was not aware of the conditions of employment of the employees?

Clarification was sought in relation to certain matters.

The Parliamentary Secretary was looking for clarification? That is amazing.

It is not.

It is a time-dragging exercise.

The employees were taken on by An Chomhairle le Leas Óige, not by the Department.

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