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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 18 Nov 1975

Vol. 285 No. 11

Private Members' Business. - Farm Modernisation Scheme: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann deplores the Government's failure to adapt the EEC farm modernisation scheme to suit Irish requirements.

It is necessary, firstly, to examine the directives which comprise the farm modernisation scheme—Directives Nos. 159, 160 and 161 of 1972. It might also be possible to include the disadvantaged areas scheme and possibly one or two others. When people speak of the farm modernisation scheme they usually have in mind the three directives mentioned. The ostensible purpose of these directives was to give a better livelihood to the people living on the land. The scheme has been in operation for the last couple of years and we have come to the conclusion that the time for radical revision has come. It is reasonable to ask anybody who makes that statement about the scheme to say on what he bases his contention and condemnation of the Government for failing to do anything about it.

The first criticism of the scheme one can make is its uniformity of application throughout the Community. It has no regard to the enormous regional differences within the Community. Leaving aside the mass of national aid which further distorts the exaggerated regional differences in different parts of the Community, the size of grant in the high prosperity areas, such as the Lowlands and wealthy parts of France and Belgium, is the same as that given for the poorer regions, such as our own country, southern Italy, various parts of central France and other marginal areas—possibly the highlands of Scotland and the hill country of Wales and England.

The Council of Ministers have on many occasions declared their intention of reducing the gap that exists between agricultural incomes on the one hand and industrial incomes on the other. They have also declared their intention of introducing greater uniformity within the farming community itself, and the application of the farm modernisation scheme failed to do that for the reasons I stated. In our case, the greatest drawback which limits the operation of the scheme is the income threshold, which this year is in the region of £2,080 and also in the method of determination of this income, which is very technical in nature and intricate and unsatisfactory in operation.

Leaving aside any lengthy consideration of what happened to farm incomes during the last couple of years, it is beyond question, political or otherwise, that the income of our farming community was dealt a shattering blow. Nevertheless, the Community have raised the thershold in the mechanical way which was ordained at the time of our entry. It must be absolutely clear to everybody that more realistic thresholds should be made available. Four out of every five farmers in this country are excluded from availing of the developing status to the fullest possible extent. Nearly always he is thrust into the "other farming" class which provides a smaller range of grants, fixed at a lower level.

There is also the extraordinary circumstance that small farmers who have a high production may find themselves classified as commercial farmers on the grounds that they have tillage operations on rented land. For that reason they find themselves limited in the amount of assistance they will get from the farm modernisation scheme. By and large the scheme seems to be steered towards the high prosperity areas of the Community rather than the reverse. In our case it would appear to be more reasonable to put the weight of their effort behind the people who have some prospects of becoming economically viable as farmers but who are excluded under the present conditions of the scheme, rather than the class that has already achieved that status.

The thinking of the Commission apears to be firmly based on what is known as the concept of the modern farm. There appears to be no contemplation of a change even for problem areas such as the west of Ireland or other difficult areas of the Community. It could be said that 95 per cent of the farmers in Connacht are effectively debarred from participation in the scheme.

Bearing in mind the concept of the modern farm, the thinking and actions of the Brussels Commission, it is difficult to avoid the suspicion that the hope is entertained that a great many of those people will go out of farming all together. Though I do not consider the desirability of such a thing even where there is alternative employment near at hand, as is the case in many depressed areas in Europe, this does not exist in a great many places here, certainly at the present time when we have unemployment at a level we have not seen since the foundation of the State and with no prospect in view, because of the financial lunacy of the present Government, other than an increasing roll of unemployment.

In that context it becomes all the more depressing that farms of a size that become viable are not being given it while the income level is pitched at the level it is. Another serious disadvantage is the total exclusion from this directive of part-time farmers. I have considerable experience of this. Because of comparatively recent developments in our rural economy, in my area we are fortunate in having some stable and viable industries in the southern parts of County Kilkenny. There are hundreds of men who have small holdings who are working in such industries as Clover Meats, Waterford Glass, the fertiliser factory at New Ross and other such industries. In other parts you have the same part-time staffing of such industries as Avonmore Dairies in Ballyragget where there are scores, if not hundreds, employed.

The development that is taking place in that typical area is that young men coming from farms which are not really viable establish their houses and their families on the family farms but they derive the greater part of their incomes from industrial employment, remaining part of the rural communities with their children growing up in rural environments. If this were not possible, the alternative would be that the children of those workers would become inhabitants of housing schemes in Waterford, in Dublin or Cork. This is not a development we should encourage and for that reason the assistance being given to part-time farmers should be reconsidered and the development of our small projects, usually they are small, should be encouraged actively in order to ensure that the community in which we will live will be actively and positively interested in the maintenance of our rural population. If it had no other benefit, it would act as a deterrent to the growth of dormitory towns around our cities and stabilise our rural population which has been so staggeringly depleted in the last twenty years.

I do not make a political point here. The background against which we are operating is that ten years ago 36 per cent of the male population between the ages of 16 and 24 years were working in agriculture and in the ten years since, that has fallen to 16 per cent. The exodus that has taken place in rural Ireland under our stewardship as well as that of the present Government is something we must have regard to now and we must resolve that it has gone far enough and that it must stop.

I want to refer to Directive 160 which in practice leaves it to national Governments to impose on themselves a discipline in the matter of land acquisition, land purchase, land revenue and land leasing. The only demand that is made in practice on member countries is that this discipline should apply to community members regardless of where they come from. I regret that the amount of activity in this area that has been discernible from the present Government is practically nil. There is no indication that the Government can see the dire need there is to arrest the haemorrhage of the people of rural Ireland, the almost total demise of communities and the depressing extent to which those who remain are hermits on their own land.

The pension scheme under this directive offers pensions calculated to be attractive enough to elderly farmers to surrender land so that it may be made available for the development of other farm structures. It is no good, not worth the paper it is written on for this reason: it fails to understand the psychology of the countryman, especially the Irish countryman with a history such as ours—the fight for the possession and ownership of land was so long and bitter that it has taken a place in folk memory. Every Deputy knows old farmers living in practical poverty who might be making other arrangements which might relieve that poverty but because of their ingrained love of the land they make no such arrangements.

Therefore, I suggest the Government now should consider a system under which long leases would be made, especially to farmers on the young side, through which older farmers would remain the owners of the land so that under the supervision of the land authority the land would be leased to young tenants, development farmers, for a period of about ten or 20 years. One of the things that bedevilled Irish farming has been the 11-month system. It should be closely examined now to see whether it should not be practically abandoned altogether. There will always be certain pieces of land that for particular reasons it would be necessary to lease for shorter periods, but, by and large, the notion of the 11-month system of letting should be got rid of. In that regard, not for the first time in this House, I recommend that where the Land Commission are themselves letting land which they have already acquired they would only do so to farmers who would qualify for an allotment of it. The practice is to allot it to the highest bidder who, invariably, is either one whose farm is adequate for his operations or a person who is not engaged in farming but who may be speculating in cattle, for instance. In speaking of speculation we raise a big problem. We ought collectively to make the decision that farmland is not for speculation but is for the use only of farmers; that it is not available, under any code, apart for very exceptional circumstances, in so far as people outside farming are concerned. In areas of congestion, land that becomes available for sale or for letting should be designated officially as development land and its sale should be limited to farmers who are reaching development status. I recognise that this would raise certain difficulties but when one considers the wildly-inflated prices of agricultural land, one must recognise that the possibility of the smaller farmer—the one with less financial muscle—obtaining extra land is practically nil. We are witnessing the process of the absorption of the smaller farmers throughout the country. By no means could my constituency be described as one of the poorer ones. Perhaps, from the point of view of agriculture, it is the best but even in that area the reality is that because of the inaccessibility of land to the farmers of the type I am talking about, they are being backed slowly year after year against the wall of extinction. I regret to say that even with the licence afforded to us under the 1963 Act and under EEC directive 160 of 1972, we are allowing this process to continue totally unchecked. I have never heard from either the Minister for Lands or the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries a proposal to arrest this decay.

I admit that it is not today nor yesterday the decay began. The statistic I gave extended over the period of the past ten years during which time the number of young men engaged in agriculture has decreased by 20 per cent and is continuing to decrease.

Since there is effective licence under Directive 161 for nation states to take whatever measures they consider fit to stabilise the rural population on the land, it is for us to take such measures. Pressure for this type of action is growing. I should hope that what I am saying would help to alert the people of rural Ireland to the desolation being wrought all around them. I should hope, too, to alert the Minister and his colleagues to the fact that this issue will be a burning political one in the future. It is right that we should recognise the situation and formulate plans to arrest the near destruction of rural society as we have known it. It is badly impaired already. There is an obligation on us to ensure that this desolation does not continue.

The various pension schemes have been tried. There was the scheme of a kind in the 1963 Act but that was not worth talking of. It did not work. The same applies to the pension scheme in connection with the farm modernisation scheme. The reason for the lack of success of these schemes is the profound love of the land that results in elderly farmers facing poverty and discomfort rather than signing away their land.

I am not aware that even the most modest suggestion has been made under Directive 161 which rejoices in the gobbledegook title of Socio-Economic Infrastructural Reorganisation, one of these expressions produced by the bureaucracy. What it conveys to me is the recognition that there is a need for the interlocking of the various agencies concerned with the rural community and the co-ordination of their work towards an end that appears to have been lost sight of—the stabilisation of the rural population. When one considers the marital status and the average age of our farmers, one must recognise that regardless of what we do there will be a diminution in the number of people engaged in agriculture during the next decade. However, we should have as our objective the keeping of this diminution at a minimum.

Directive 161 is voluminous in regard to educational training, industrial development and a whole range of assistances that may be provided by national governments under the general umbrella of the directive. It is necessary to bring together committees of agriculture, the IAOS, the farming organisations and possibly county councils and organisations such as the ICA so that they can identify the problems of areas possibly by counties or by regions. These organisations recognise that of farming families there will be some young men and women who will not be able to continue in farming and that for them other means of livelihood will have to be provided preferably in their immediate areas but certainly in their regions. What I am talking of is the necessity for the development of local industries, village industries and the active participation of the IDA in this quest for new industry. The Irish as a nation have acted for long enough as a reservoir of cheap labour for our neighbours in Great Britain and in other countries.

It is time we began to work for ourselves and it is up to ourselves because, no matter what the EEC may provide in the way of aid, and they have provided very substantial aid, unless we resolve to help ourselves and do it ourselves and identify our own problems ourselves the EEC will not save us. For that reason I regret there has not been a single whisper, not to me at any rate, from the Government about, first of all, the recognition of the dire problems that exist and, secondly, the formulation of methods to deal with them.

Before the recent by-election we had the Minister for the Gaeltacht announcing with an appropriate flourish of trumpets, the establishment of a western development board. The notion in itself may be well enough, but what good is the flourishing of trumpets when we are not even able to fund a decent disadvantaged areas scheme? The aids under the headage grants paid by our Government under the disadvantaged areas scheme are by far the smallest and the meanest in the Community. They must be. Anything that depends largely on a national contribution is bound to weigh against the smaller and poorer countries and we are one of them. For that reason I am quite sure the Minister is very well aware of this and I am quite sure he has been putting across the point that the concept of national aids will have to be got rid of as soon as possible. But it has not been done yet and I do not think it is very realistic for the Government to talk airily and vaguely, before by-elections only, about western development boards or any other kind of development boards unless there is something else coming as well. If Mr. O'Donnell had been willing officially to tell us what he was going to do for the people——

The Minister for the Gaeltacht.

How long have I got?

Seven minutes.

But Mr. O'Donnell did not tell us or identify any of the problems this western development board was going to tackle. Since my time is limited I want to refer to the apparent conflict that exists between the price policy operated by the EEC and the social objectives that appear to be the target of the Community and the Commission in the directives under the farm organisation scheme. The price policy must to a great degree militate against the smaller farmers because the reward is far greater to the more efficient farmer and, in coldly economic terms, the larger farmer is usually the more efficient. But we Irish have got to talk about it in a somewhat different context because we are talking about the social implications of it as well.

We do not look upon the ultimate in economic expansion upon the farm as being the acme of achievement. Rather do we look on the achievement in the light of the social development that takes place, in the reduction in the number of people who must leave farming and in the fairer distribution of the land resources we have got. I am not now in any way talking about introducing a tyranny that would prevent progressive farmers from expanding. What I am talking about is a regime that would prevent them expanding regardless of whose expense they expand at. There are many people who would advocate an upper limit in the acreage of land that may be given to any one man. This is unrealistic. What we should aim at is preventing one man from injuring the future prospects of two, three or four others and we have not been doing anything like enough in that regard. As a consequence, the people of rural Ireland, especially the smaller people, not being able to avail of the grants available to development farmers are yearly approaching the ultimate point of extinction.

There has been no indication, good, bad or indifferent, from the Government that I am aware of that they are aware of what is going on. We want to tell them now. We want to alert them to this situation which I call a crisis situation. We want to ask the Minister immediately to seek revision—in our case drastic revision—of the directives, especially Directive 159. We want a lowering of the thresholds. We want assistance for part-time farmers. We want the identification of the objective of the whole scheme and not the establishment of modern farms as much as the stabilisation of family farms on the land throughout the Community and especially in this country. I think it is possible for individual countries, such as ourselves, to get special measures. The Italians have done it in the case of their cattle. I regret very much that we did not do the same. We have an excellent case to go to the Commission and say: "Look here, the threshold you have fixed for the rest of the Community is no good to us and the statistics on which you rely are very misleading indeed." We all owe it to the Government, particularly to the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries and the Minister for Lands, to do this and do it now. The people of rural Ireland are waiting for this and I am sure the Deputies from west Munster, Connacht and Ulster will be talking on this motion and they will give you the numbers of their constituents who are more or less debarred from participation in any effective way in the farm modernisation scheme. We urge the Government and the Minister to look for these changes and get them.

I listened for the last 40 minutes to Deputy Gibbons and I must say that his tone of voice and the content of his statement are far different from his tone of voice and the content of his remarks when we debated a somewhat similar motion here in the latter part of January of this year. That debate centred on Directives 159 and 160. I thought I would hear some condemnatory remarks from the Deputy who put down this motion but he had nothing significant to contribute. The time of this House could be saved if he would call to the Minister's office to discuss the matters which are getting the attention of the Minister and the Government.

Why the change? In January, 1969, Deputy Collins who was shadow Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries, told the House that the agricultural policy then being pursued would put 65 per cent of the farmers out of business. That is the actual figure. If there is any doubt about it I can quote his statement. The figure is not taken out of context. Today Deputy Gibbons said that 95 per cent of the farmers in the Province of Connacht are debarred from the scheme. That is not correct. I would say 95 per cent of the farmers of Connacht would qualify for the scheme. Deputy Gibbons emphasised the desirability of improving the lot of the smaller farmers. On 28th January, 1975, he said:

I want to say to the Government, to the Minister, that we will never think of our people in the west as people to be treated as Indians in a reservation. That is the way the Government are treating them and nobody else is responsible for having got them into that situation at present.

They were strong words. That is not so, and that statement is not factual.

I have already referred to the Deputy's tone of voice in making his contribution. It is impossible to condemn the Minister and the Government for their agricultural policy. We are most fortunate to have the two directives mainly referred to in this debate dealt with by Deputy Mark Clinton, the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries, and Deputy Tom Fitzpatrick, Minister for Lands. The Irish people have every confidence, and justifiably so, in both Ministers. They know they are delivering the goods and will continue to deliver the goods. I do not throw bouquets around too often. We are entitled to reply to a motion which sets out to condemn the Government.

I owe my membership of this House over a period of 25 years largely to the support I get from small farmers in Cork south west. I am interested in their welfare. In previous discussions on farming matters, I was not slow to voice my opposition, irrespective of what Government were in power, to measures I thought were not to their advantage. We all know the difficulties and problems confronting the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries. His portfolio is completely different from what it was in days gone by since our entry to the EEC out of which grows the farm modernisation scheme. It is the Minister's job to negotiate our terms, to deal with his colleagues on the Council of Ministers and to ensure that he gets the best deal possible for Irish agriculture. I assert this is being done. It is generally accepted throughout the country.

Since Deputy Gibbons made his statement about the Province of Connacht being grossly neglected by the Government and particularly by the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries—a statement which was more or less supported by the suggestion that 95 per cent of the farmers of Connacht are debarred from the scheme—what has happened? Unfortunately, three of our colleagues have passed to their eternal reward and consequently we had three by-elections, one in West Galway, one in North Galway, and one in Mayo West. These are three rural constituencies largely, with the exception of Galway town. I will not go over the election results but this is the best yardstick by which to measure public opinion and public confidence. In no uncertain terms the Government got an endorsement of their policies from the three areas. That endorsement came largely from the smaller and medium sized farmers. I am sure the number of commercial farmers in Galway and Mayo is small. It is not imposing unduly on the time of the House to mention that fact. To my mind it is a vote of confidence in the Government and in particular in the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries and the Minister for Lands, and an encouragement to them to continue agricultural development in the western areas.

Since the Government took office two years and eight months ago they have paid particular attention to agriculture. That has helped the Minister very much in the work he is doing. The Government, supported by all their backbenchers, are mindful of the fact that agriculture is our main industry and naturally it is entitled to reasonable levies on the Exchequer for development and for the improvement of the standards of living of those who engage in it.

I have not the slightest doubt but that the Minister's work has been made relatively easy, that despite the economic recession taking place all over the world the Government, since assuming office, have been as liberal as possible so far as the provision of funds for our agricultural industry is concerned. Why I say that is because many people, at least a sizeable number, even some of our farmers, have the idea that since we became a member of the EEC all the moneys paid out under the farm modernisation scheme come from Europe. As every Member of the House knows quite well, the bulk of those moneys comes from the taxpayers' pockets and the amount of money paid out under that scheme which is obtained from Community funds, to which we contribute, is relatively small. I am sure I would not be out of place in saying it is less than 10 per cent, though I have not the actual figure.

What are the complaints? From what I could gather from the mover of the motion they are few and far between. I have disposed of the first one, that was concerned with grants in poor parts of the country and the question of a sizeable number, or almost all, of the farmers on the western seaboard being debarred from the scheme.

Deputy Gibbons mentioned that the number of farmers getting into the development category was relatively small. I believe the figures are 18 per cent development and 3 per cent commercial. The table I have here indicates that the transitional farmer is not a big loser by not being classified "development"; he is a man who is moving towards development. The feeling seems to be abroad that, by virtue of being classified as transitional, it will not help farmers to be considered for, say, Land Commission holdings which are to be divided. That is not so. The idea behind this scheme is to bring about a situation, if land is available, in which transitional farmers' claims will be scrutinised and, if approved, they will be awarded portions of land in the same way as are development farmers. In my view a transitional farmer moving towards development is even more entitled to that land.

But he will not get it.

He can get it. In my view there is nothing to preclude him from getting it.

He is specifically precluded under the farm retirement scheme—any land being divided must go to development farmers.

Order. Let us hear the Parliamentary Secretary.

He is not specifically precluded. The farm retirement scheme is a separate one.

Let the Parliamentary Secretary do his homework before coming into the House.

Doubtless Deputy Cunningham will have his chance.

I am doing my homework.

Will the Parliamentary Secretary take account of what I said?

Deputy Cunningham must desist from interrupting.

Deputy Gibbons spoke here for 40 minutes without interruption. It is quite open to Deputy Cunningham to come along and dispute any matter to which I have referred.

All the Parliamentary Secretary need do is read the booklet.

I have read all the booklet and all the directives——

But the Deputy will appreciate that members of his party were not able to see ahead of themselves——

Through the Chair, please.

We can read.

I do not know whether the Deputy can spell. His party did not do so well spelling out the results of the recent contest, whatever about the few days before it.

That is a deep, philosophical remark. I came in here to hear something about farming.

I was outlining the position with regard to transitional farmers. The grants are set out in this leaflet which is in the hands of all Members. It is not necessary for me to take up the time of the House detailing them as set out.

Is there a difference?

The development farmer gets 50 per cent, say, for land improvement. The transitional farmer gets the same amount. Even with regard to the interest subsidy the rates are similar. This is the official statement——

Is the Parliamentary Secretary saying there is no difference?

That is the official statement.

The Parliamentary Secretary saw something there and stopped.

The transitional farmers get whatever is left.

No, the commercial farmer's rates are lower but it is deemed that he is an economic holder, that his income is greater and naturally his percentages are reduced. Taking the scheme as a whole, as I have examined it, the grants for work being carried out at present under the farm modernisation scheme will equal, if not exceed in many cases, the grants obtainable under the old scheme.

Much larger.

The number of applications is 38,000. It is a credit to the Department and to the local committees of agriculture that, of the 38,000, 27,000 have been classified already.

How many have been paid?

Order, please. The Parliamentary Secretary must be allowed to make his own speech.

They are being paid up to date. In fact there was some cribbing of late that they were being paid too early. The Department are mindful of the fact that farmers want their money, possibly in some cases urgently, to formulate other schemes, to develop their holding or to provide for additional works on their holdings. We do not do what the Deputy's party used to do—hold up payments until some Fianna Fáil Deputy was approached to make representations.

I should like to mention also the farm retirement scheme because it is something to which I have addressed myself over the years. I am now expressing a personal view but one firmly held. Even though the retirement scheme is advancing reasonably well, as shown by the statistics available, there is in south-west Cork—and I am sure this is typical of what obtains in other parts of the country—a tradition of handing over farms, if at all possible, to a close relative, that is in the case of an owner who has no family, perhaps a single man, Naturally, that is the major hindrance in this scheme under Directive No. 160. I see nothing wrong in that system. It is an Irish tradition. It has worked reasonably well in the past and I have no doubt it will work reasonably well in the future. It is something the Department of Lands must take into account in determining whether land should be acquired for distribution among congests or whether a person should be allowed pass it on to a relative. My view is that the relative takes first place if he or she is a young person likely to get married in the not too distant future, a person who understands farming and is capable of working the holding. I have expressed that view before and I have not changed it. So far as Directive No. 160 is concerned, the Minister is doing a good job when one takes account of all the circumstances.

The statements of Deputy Gibbons regarding the cattle headage grants and payments under the disadvantaged areas scheme were not relevant. The payment of £300 under the headage scheme was——

A nice Christmas box.

The Deputy has used a very apt term. I know that the payment was much appreciated. The taxpayers' money is limited and the level of £300 was quite fair and was acknowledged as such. Naturally there is criticism that the areas are not extended but wherever we draw the line there will always be people outside it who are anxious to be included. These things cannot be done. The work of the Government with regard to the disadvantaged areas scheme is much appreciated——

That is only a small part of it. What about drainage? There have been no grants since 1st February, 1974.

All these questions are being dealt with. For the Deputy's information, the best vote of confidence from farmers whom I met during the recent election campaign were four farmers at Newport fair who told me that they were traditional supporters of Fianna Fáil and were voting for the Fianna Fáil candidate but they also told me they had no fault to find with the Government whom they considered were doing a good job——

There have not been any grants for drainage under the disadvantaged areas scheme and land reclamation work is not covered.

What did Fianna Fáil do with regard to drainage work in their 16 years in office?

We were not being paid by the EEC for the disadvantaged areas scheme. In only one section have payments been introduced.

Order. The Parliamentary Secretary should be allowed to speak without interruption.

I should like to refer again to the schemes as a package. All the schemes are part of a package and it is the Minister's job to apply it and to try to adapt the schemes to the general needs of the country. Today the Opposition told us the Government were not doing this but it was said in a weak voice, without any force or drive. Deputy Gibbons did not speak with the same voice as he did in January, 1974, when he was preaching gloom and disaster, when he complained about bad cattle prices and said that calves were being thrown into the bogs, as happened years ago. One felt the Deputy got a certain satisfaction from that. Because of the changes that have occurred since, because of the considerable attention being paid to agriculture and the careful steering of the ship of State——

What about the 50-mile limit?

——because of all that we are floating. There has been a lot of rubbish spoken at the church gates in the last three years about farmers not being satisfied with the Government but I think the Opposition have got their answer.

What about all the cattle that have been slaughtered?

I agree that possibly there are areas that need change. This directive is three years old and I do not think it is the final one. Deputy Gibbons spoke about people leaving the land. If farmers move out of uneconomic holdings the number on the land will decrease, but we are hopeful that later on it will show an increase. Unfortunately there are bachelor farmers in many parts of the country but we hope that this trend will not continue——

There will be no information on this because the Government have decided not to carry out a census.

There are farmers who are living on uneconomic holdings and I should like to see these people taking up jobs locally rather than going to the labour exchange. Undoubtedly there is some change needed here. Under the scheme we are discussing, a person will not qualify unless he gets 50 per cent of his income from and spends 50 per cent of his time on the land. I have no doubt the Minister will try to get that changed. I know of several small farmers who, if jobs were available in nearby towns, would take work in those towns. That is the way in which we can save the small farmers and I hope the Minister will be able to effect some change here. A farm held by a farm worker is totally different from a farm owned by a professional man, a merchant or a shopkeeper. For the latter the purchase of a farm is regarded as a speculation.

I wish to discount what Deputy Gibbons has stated. All Irish farmers, whether large, medium or small, have complete confidence in the Government and in the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries.

When Deputy Gibbons put down this motion for discussion he hoped it would be taken seriously by the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries, his Parliamentary Secretary and by the Government. He put it down for the purpose of finding out the shortcomings in the farm modernisation scheme as applying to Irish farming at present but so far this seems to have fallen on deaf ears because the Parliamentary Secretary in his contribution only waffled his way through and did not seem to think that this was something serious. I can tell him that the shortcomings of the farm modernisation scheme have not been felt yet and assure him that unless the Government become aware or are made aware of these shortcomings and are willing to rectify them the scheme will become a very live political issue. That might suit us on this side of the House but it would not suit Irish agriculture, especially farmers who will be forced off the land. Therefore, we would like to see the motion treated as it deserves to be treated and we hope it will have the desired effect and make the Government aware of the need for change.

The basic principle of the farm modernisation scheme is good in that it encourages farmers to develop on a planned basis but its operation is not suitable in Irish conditions. It has now been in operation for some time but its effects have not yet been seriously felt. The Government must be aware of the need for change and now is the time to make the change in the interests of agriculture. What I am saying is borne out by the fact that 79 per cent is the national average of farmers in the other category and the figure in the west of Ireland must be very much higher. The Parliamentary Secretary said that Deputy Gibbons' figure was not correct but he did not say what he thought the figure was. I believe that Deputy Gibbons' figure would appear to be correct in respect of Connacht seeing that 79 per cent is the national average.

I do not like to interrupt but does the Deputy assert that 95 per cent of the farmers in Connacht are debarred from the benefits of the farm modernisation scheme?

I said that 79 per cent is the national average of those in the other category and therefore it appears to me that Deputy Gibbons' figure must be correct. The Parliamentary Secretary contradicted that figure but did not give the correct figure. The 79 per cent in the other category have very little chance of coming into the category of development or commercial farming and do not know what is in store for them beyond 1977. This is a very serious matter and I hope that the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries in his contribution will clear up that point because farmers in the other category are becoming very worried at present. Perhaps through a discussion like this they will realise how serious their position is. That is the first essential. Then they must use every means open to them to bring home to the Government the seriousness of the situation.

If the modernisation scheme suited Irish conditions I would expect at least two-thirds of the Irish farming community would qualify. In saying twothirds I accept that in any such scheme there will be those who are too old to qualify and some who are bad managers and so on. But as the scheme operates many good young farmers, through no fault of their own, are not qualified either as commercial or development farmers. This must be remedied. We must come to their aid. I appeal to the Government to realise that this must be done quickly. These farmers need the most aid but they are getting the least under the present system. One of the first things to consider in helping small farmers to develop, especially uneconomic holders, is the need for additional land. They must have additional land. Therefore it is important to ensure that the land which becomes available is not bought for the purpose of speculation by people not already in farming, by people who will not put it to proper use and to ensure that farmers who already have more than sufficient land are not allowed to buy land at the expense of farmers who require additions. We have the legislation under which this can be done by not approving such purchases of land. That is the first step to take in helping the uneconomic holder to develop and expand.

Deputy Gibbons spoke of the difficulty regarding the threshold income of £2,080. I would like every farmer to reach that minimum figure; it is only right that we should give every encouragement that would tend to build up the farmer's income to that level. In order to achieve this farmers require a great deal of help and we should give them all the help and advice necessary. At present no effort is being made to do this; they are just classed as being in the other category for which the national average is the very high figure of 79 per cent. It is a frightening figure. They know they are not getting what they should get; they are getting lower grants than those in the other classes. They do not know what the future holds for them beyond 1977. I have never heard their position beyond that stage clarified sufficiently. At present people are encouraged into dairying, beet and sheep but there is no encouragement for those in the category I mentioned to develop as tillage farmers. This must also be considered.

From a national point of view the amount of animal feedstuff we import should be reduced considerably and this could be done if farmers were encouraged to grow more. The farmer who wishes to expand his dairy herd will qualify for a grant of 10 per cent if he purchases the additional cows or heifers from outside but I cannot understand why a farmer, if he rears these animals himself, does not qualify for any grant. That is by far the best method of increasing his herd because it does not involve the risk of disease that buying from outside does.

There is also an incentive in relation to beef and sheep but nothing for tillage. This should be looked at immediately. There has been a drastic falling-off in the acreage of land under potatoes, a fact which is well known to the housewife who has to pay such a high price for potatoes. Much market gardening is done in Ballinacourty in County Waterford and those involved need incentive and encouragement.

I should now like to refer to the farm modernisation scheme and its operation in County Waterford. The scheme is being operated in a detailed manner by the local advisory service. Officials involved in that service spend all their time in the administration of that scheme.

The instructors have moved away from the work they were involved in because it takes, on average two-and-a-half days to process an application under this scheme. The instructors have become officebound and have no time to give advice on the land. I cannot understand why the Minister has said that their time could not be better spent because they should be in the field rather than in an office. I hope that when the backlog in my county is dealt with the instructors will be able to move from the office out to farmers to give them advice in relation to their holdings. Their work in the advisory field has been at a standstill because of the farm modernisation scheme.

And 40 per cent of Waterford farmers are development farmers.

The Minister should find some other means of processing applications rather than involving instructors. He should find some other way of doing the work of the Government in this scheme and permit the advisers to carry out the duties they were appointed to carry out. In Waterford we had 873 applications and of this number 38 per cent are in the development category as against the national average of 18 per cent. We have 9 per cent in the commercial category as against the national average of 3 per cent while in the "other category" we have 53 per cent as against the national average of 79 per cent. The reason for this is that in Waterford, which is a dairying county, the size of the farms is above the national average.

Of the 341 farms surveyed by the advisory service in the "other category", if the threshold income was reduced by £400 an additional 252 farmers would get in. A further 92 farmers could be brought in by changing their system of farming while 68 would get in if high borrowing could have been avoided. A further 25 would qualify if they got extra land. That survey shows the difficulties farmers in that area are in. While I would like to see the threshold figure of £2,080 being reached by every farmer—I believe we should work towards this goal—it is obvious, because that figure is so high, that we are keeping out a number of farmers from the development class. This should be rectified.

With regard to those who would qualify if they changed their system of farming, I should like to state that it is in this regard the advisers could play a major role if they were not engaged in the farm modernisation scheme. The borrowing which the 68 farmers I have referred to engaged in was on the advice of the agricultural instructors with a view to the development and expansion of their farms. Farmers are now finding that because they borrowed heavily they are being penalised and put into a category where there is little chance of them becoming development farmers. That is a severe penalty on those farmers. Extra land must be made available to farmers who are anxious to expand but this can only be made available from the pool of land we have. If we are to hold such a pool of land for those in need there must be a stop put to speculators who are buying land at such a price that the ordinary farmer has no chance of competing. There should also be a check put on farmers who have more than enough land to give them a good income. These people must be stopped in their efforts to gobble up all the land that becomes available in a locality. We all have seen this happening. Under present legislation we have the power to stop this happening by not sanctioning sales to people in the category I mentioned. This is something that needs to be attended to quickly.

The figures I have given should indicate to the Minister and the Government the shortcomings in the farm modernisation scheme as at present administered. There are many shortcomings. However, I do not have the time to deal with them now but I will have an opportunity to discuss them at a later stage.

I should like to refer to the retiring farmer who at 55 years will receive 10 per cent less by way of grants. This is a severe penalty on such a man because 55 years is too young for a farmer to retire when one considers that 65 is the retiring age for other classes.

Debate adjourned.
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