asked the Minister for Education the position regarding the proposed community school at Muine Bheag, County Carlow; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Muine Bheag Community School.
28.
As I indicated in my reply to a similar question, No. 50, on December 18th, an alternative proposal, involving the local national school, has been put forward for consideration by my Department. The implications, financial and otherwise, of this proposal are still under consideration in conjunction with the Commissioners of Public Works.
The Minister is aware that this matter arose over 12 months ago and he received a deputation as far back as last July and visited the proposed site himself. Would the Minister now agree that the site proposed, namely, the extension to the vocational school, is unsuitable and why is there such a delay in getting the report from the Board of Works? Further, would he state what price he would be prepared to accept for a transfer of the primary school to the vocational school and then build a new school on a completely separate site to which the people would be agreeable?
The Deputy is mistaken when he says this question arose 12 months ago. It has, in fact, been going on for quite a number of years now. On 29th January, 1973, officers of my Department wrote to Carlow County Council as follows:
I desire to inform you that the Department proposes to erect a new Community School at Muine Bheag shortly. It is essential that the new building be sited adjacent to the existing vocational school which was built in recent years so that the accommodation in that school can continue to be used as part of the whole complex. It seems from a survey of the area that the only site that would be suitable under the circumstances is the site adjacent to the vocational school...which we understand is the property of the Council. The Department would be glad, if the Council would agree to sell the site to the Department.
I might add that in addition to a large range of teaching facilities the school will include a Sports Hall and tarmacadam play areas for tennis, basketball etc. We would also hope to purchase additional land in the vicinity for use as playing fields. All the school facilities and recreational facilities will be available to the Community in general.
The officials of the Department would be glad to call to the Council office to discuss the matter further.
That was in January, 1973. In fact, this question goes back to 1970, or earlier, as the Deputy may know. In the first part of his supplementary question he mentioned 12 months ago. Now I take the same view as my predecessor did: the place to put the community school is on the site of the existing vocational school. The delay involved is not something for which I have special responsibility and the question about the price of transferring the national school does not arise at this stage.
The Minister is aware that 12 months ago a public meeting in Muine Bheag were in complete agreement that this was not a suitable site and they wanted the community school on a separate site. The Minister must be further aware that the proposed site is unsuitable because it will take playing fields from the children in Pairc Mhuire. At this late stage would the Minister give an undertaking when he will be able to take a definite decision and let the people know if he is going ahead with the school on the proposed new site?
The difficulties referred to by the Deputy arose more than four years ago and I cannot give any undertaking which would involve me in walking away from £150,000 of good vocational building.
On a point of order: arising from the decision the Ceann Comhairle gave earlier in relation to a supplementary question from Deputy Allen when he quoted, did I not hear the Minister giving a long quotation although the Chair had ruled earlier that quotations were out of order at Question Time?
The Minister is entitled to reply in the ordinary way.
That means the rule operates for Deputies but not for Ministers.
The ruling of the Chair was of long standing, and in accordance with precedent.
I agree, but the Chair said quotations were out of order.
As a matter of clarification, does this apply to Deputies and Ministers?
It applies to supplementary questions. The Minister is entitled to make his reply in the usual way.
All I want is clarification. I am not trying to catch out the Chair. In replying to a supplementary question, is the Minister entitled to read?
The ruling I gave is in respect of supplementary questions only.
I take it then that the Minister is not entitled to read quotations in reply to a supplementary question.
The Minister is entitled to make a quotation.
In reply to supplementaries?
That has been the practice.
If the Minister wanted to read Paradise Lost we would have to sit here and listen.
I am only looking for information. The Minister is entitled to read quotations——
My ruling does not apply to the answers.
It applies to Deputies but not to Ministers.
Rules change as the game goes on.
(Interruptions.)
When will the Minister be in a position to let the people in Muine Bheag know——
(Interruptions.)
A final supplementary, Sir. Would the——
The Deputy is entitled to injury time.
May I have a final supplementary? This is my question.
I wanted to ask a supplementary question because I also inspected that site.
When will the Minister be in a position to say whether the present vocational school in Muine Bheag is suitable as a primary school? If it is suitable, what is the actual figure he would accept for the transfer of the primary school to the vocational school?
The Deputy has already asked that question.
That is the kernel of the problem.
We have already heard that question.
In the first place, the existing primary school in Muine Bheag is satisfactory and therefore the question of the transfer of the primary school to the vocational school does not arise with any urgency.
Would the Minister not agree that the place chosen is very sharply enclosed and the grounds are used by the people of Pairc Mhuire, as shown to me by Deputy Nolan on inspection? Would he not further agree that the additional field bought is approached by a two-foot wide path? Would he not finally agree that the place where the people want the community school built is spacious and ideally suited for a community school?
I can agree with the latter two aspects of the Deputy's supplementary. The question for me to decide is how am I going to replace £150,000 of good vocational building. I cannot walk away from that. It would be a matter for the Public Accounts Committee if I were to authorise that that should be done.
(Interruptions.)
Will the Minister further consider the points I have raised?
I will consider them.
The remaining questions will appear on tomorrow's Order Paper.