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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 8 Apr 1976

Vol. 289 No. 9

Adjournment Debate: Teachers' Payment.

I thank the Chair for affording me this opportunity to raise on the adjournment this matter of urgency. It is the question of the payment of teachers in regional technical colleges and other third level institutions for the setting and marking of certificate and diploma examination papers. Because of this dispute there is a grave danger that examination papers will not be set for students who are candidates for certificates and diplomas this year.

The crux seems to have arisen because the Minister this year did not follow the pattern of last year's payments. Teachers were paid last year. I will read from a letter which came from the Department of Education and was received by the CEO of the Dublin City Vocational Education Committee on 27th June, 1975:

I refer to this Department's letters of 1st November, 1974, and 6th November, 1974, in relation to recompense for the setting and marking by certain members of the staff, who are teaching at third level in the Regional Technical and Dublin Colleges, of papers in examinations leading to the award of qualifications by the National Council for Educational Awards and other Professional qualifications.

In this connection I am to convey approval for payment by your Committee at the following rates to teachers involved in the setting and marking of papers in these examinations.

40p per script for first year (Certificate Level);

57p per script for second and third year (Diploma Level);

68p per script for fourth year or more;

subject to a minimum payment in respect of each paper as follows:

£18 for examinations at first year (Certificate Level),

£25 for examinations at second and third year (Diploma Level),

£30 for examinations at fourth year or more.

This approval is in respect of 1975 examinations only pending a final decision on the general question of the arrangements to be made for setting and marking of examination papers.

I understand it is the contention of the Minister that there was an arrangement in the hours agreement reached with these teachers in December, 1974, which covered this particular remuneration. The date of that hours agreement was 23rd December, 1974 and it covered not merely the teachers in question here but all teachers employed by vocational education committees throughout the country. This is one strong point that must be taken into consideration. Despite that fact, and the contention that there was an arrangement covering this in the hours agreement, the Minister still paid, per the letter I have read, in June, 1975. However, that is not the whole story. The Minister also paid the teachers in October, 1975, at an increased rate per paper. The letter to the CEO is dated 27th October, 1975, and reads:

I refer to the Department's letter of 21st May, 1975, in connection with recompense for the setting and marking by certain members of the staff who are teaching at third level in the Regional Technical and Dublin Colleges, of papers in examinations leading to the award of qualifications by the National Council for Educational Awards and other Professional qualifications.

In this connection, I am to inform you that the rate per script quoted should be amended to read as follows:

47p per script for first year (Certificate Level),

67p per script for second and third year (Diploma Level),

80p per script for fourth year or more.

The indication would seem to be that all the arrangements had been made prior to the Minister instructing the CEO that these rates should be paid.

The argument, if it is advanced, on the hours agreement in the circular letter, the sending out of which was dated 1st January, 1975, falls down. Otherwise the Minister would be acting ultra vires in permitting the payments subsequent to the hours agreement. This is a serious problem and the hour is very late for its solution. I have not the exact figure, but there are at least a couple of thousand students involved, in Kevin Street, Bolton Street and the various regional technical colleges. I have letters from students, some of them in the fourth year, who are perturbed at the possibility of no examinations at the end of this term. It is also true there are some examinations at the end of April. The House is rising today and we will not come back until 27th and this makes a decision by the Minister now very important.

At the moment the merits of the case, to a certain extent, are irrelevant, but I will deal with them briefly. In toto, there is not a great deal of money involved, but there is a great deal of anxiety and worry for students. There is also a principle involved. It may be argued that, seeing that the teachers who teach the courses in these colleges also set the papers, there is an internal element involved—that it could be contended that as the work is exclusively internal the ordinary emolument a teacher gets should cover it. On the other hand, it is true these teachers are setting and marking papers under the umbrella of the National Council for Education Awards, and this gives them in public form an element outside their particular colleges, a special matter that should attract extra money for the setting and marking of papers. It is the same as the marking of the leaving certificate papers and should carry with it extra monetary rewards.

"Pending a final decision", the words in the Minister's letter, are puzzling if he is arguing back to the hours agreement as I have outlined. The actual wording of the letter which was received on 27th June and dated Bealtaine 1975 was:

This approval is in respect of the 1975 examinations only pending a final decision of the general question of the arrangements to be made for setting and marking of examination papers.

A final decision had to be made. No further move on the part of the Department to negotiate on this subject was made. I am charging the Minister with neglect of duty for not seeing to it, at this late stage, that the way was made ready for these examinations so that students would be relieved of the anxiety they have in abundance when facing, say, a terminal fourth year examination.

I am here not purely to carp but to try to impress on the House that it is the plain duty of the Minister to announce a decision before he leaves the House that he is prepared to pay these teachers for the work they are doing, which is national work being certified by the National Council for Education Awards. I am afraid that the whole sector of third level non-university education is in a state of turmoil. This is one small aspect of it which, without very much expense, the Minister could smooth away and solve. I ask him to do so for the reasons I have stated, for the sake of the students and for educational reasons as well. It is an unhealthy thing that when some examinations should be held in the normal way at the end of April, neither students nor staff know whether or not they will be held. I am asking also for the sake of the country so that the Minister will not give the impression, as he is definitely giving at present, that he could not care less about this sector. We had parades and protests today dealing with this self-same sector. Here is a small problem the Minister could solve with a stroke of his pen and I am appealing to him to do so.

The circular letter which contains the terms on which an agreement was drawn up between members of the teachers' union working in colleges under the VEC and the Department of Education is termed Circular Letter No. 1/75. A part of that, sections seven to nine, particularly section eight, refers to the following and I quote:

In the matter of the more precise definition of the three levels of work in the colleges and in the matter also of phasing the introduction of the new weighting system it is intended to have further discussions as soon as possible.

The agreement which was drawn up at that time did not include final determination of the problems in relation to the higher level education sector. The hours agreement was concluded at the end of 1974 but there was an element of weighting for higher level work in the colleges which did not become fully operational until later in the year 1975. It is this weighting element which results in the teachers, who are mainly concerned, having their teaching hours reduced from what they were to an order of 16 to 19 per week for a college year of about 34 weeks. This reduction of the hours was a substantial one and was the basis on which I issued a circular letter the other day indicating that, when we have reached a conclusion on this matter, I would regard assessment of the work of these colleges, the setting of papers and all the attendant duties as being covered by this much better arrangement from the point of view of the teachers.

Therefore, in effect not alone does Deputy Wilson's point about June, 1975, referring to a letter to the CEOs, not stand but in fact the matters were not finally determined until later. In October of that year the document which issued simply was the usual document which details the changes in the rates of payment for external examiners and this occurs from time to time.

I have made a decision in regard to this matter. I contend that a reduction in the hours from what they were to the average of 16 to 19 is a substantial reduction in the work and that the matters now in dispute could easily be regarded as work which would normally be done by teachers given these much better conditions. These are not national examinations. They are local college examinations which are nationally monitored under the NCEA by external examiners paid for by the NCEA. All the examinations in question are held within the 34 week period to which I have referred. Much as I would like to see a solution to the problems that face us, I am not in a position—and I have said so in my circular letter— to make any change in the arrangements I outlined in that circular.

The Minister said that sections seven, eight and nine were important in the agreement. He stated that further discussion was to take place in that area as soon as possible. The first question I want to ask is: did such discussion take place?

On this particular question?

On the question of the weighting.

When he stated that later in 1975 this weighting came into effect when does he mean? What date precisely?

The end of the school year; the beginning of 1975-76.

And it was subsequent to that that the Minister sanctioned increased rates for marking.

I have already explained to the Deputy that that was the general sanction for increased weights for any extern examiners.

I am afraid the debate is deemed to have concluded when the Minister replied.

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