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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 4 May 1976

Vol. 290 No. 4

Private Members' Business. - Adjournment Debate: Technical Colleges Examinations.

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for affording me the opportunity of raising this matter on the Adjournment. I understand the restrictions which you and your Office have imposed on the scope of the debate. I understand the reason for the restrictions and I intend to abide by them because already we have had a discussion on the question out of which this whole matter has arisen. I am confined merely to the matter of students and their examinations. It is as well to inform the House that a large number of students are involved in this situation—students of the technological colleges and those of the regional technical colleges. The dispute involves examinations at first, second, third and fourth year levels. My intention here is to help and I do not intend indulging in any form of acrimony or criticism of the Minister. Rather, my contribution will be in the nature of an appeal to the Minister.

The position in which the students find themselves is not of their making. They have followed their courses and are anxious to gain recognition by way of certificate or diploma for their efforts. Due to the doubt about the whole matter the students have been upset considerably. I have detected this from my experience in meeting with them. It is my opinion—and the Minister is on record as having expressed the same sentiments—that, perhaps, we pay too much attention to examinations with a resulting serious effect on students. But when examinations are necessary to enable students to advance either into employment or into further education we must take into account above all their position.

I understand, for example, that in Kevin Street alone, in the whole-time applied science department, there are examinations for each year of three years while the electrical engineering diploma course students take examinations in each of four years. In the light of activities regarding degrees and so on, the House will be aware that this is controversial territory. There is a diploma in optics in respect of which students must complete six months practical work but they must be successful in an examination before embarking on that practical work. Obviously, this is not take place. Today I spoke with a student who is studying for the examination for medical laboratory technicians. In his case, too, the practical side of his work in a hospital cannot be undertaken without first sitting for and being successful in the examination. Consequently, his whole career could be in jeopardy because of the present situation. He must have his first year examination before a hospital will be satisfied to take him.

I could go through the list: there are courses in radio telecommunications, wholetime radio communications and electrical engineering. There are courses for radio officers and also some groups are seeking certificates to enable them to take some of the London University degree courses. What I am appealing for is a large measure of compassion from the Minister. I know his difficulty. I am aware of the stresses experienced by all Ministers and the Minister for Education is not at the bottom of the list in so far as stresses and strains are concerned. However, it used to be said of Julius Caesar that he regarded ingenium or the application of intelligence as the most important factor in any career even in such a crude career as general of an army. I believe that the Department of Education have the ingenium, that they have the resources to attack this problem and settle it. There is an old Irish proverb which says: “Is cuma nó muc duine gan beart”. I am looking for a beart. It is not outside the bounds of possibility that the Department can produce one. It will be tantamount to a serious failure on the part of the Department if they do not do so, if they cannot do so.

There is no use in saying: "Thanks be to God I am not responsible. Thanks be to God the buck can be passed, or the blame can be laid elsewhere". There is a strong obligation on the Minister and his Department to use all their resources—and the resources of a Minister and Department of State are great—to try to facilitate the students at this time. There is a great old friend of negotiators called "without prejudice". He could be brought in here to get over the difficulty of having the examinations now. The examinations could be held. The Minister and his officials should bend themselves to this task and utilise, as great dramatists used to utilise, the deus ex machina, utilise “without prejudice” and let the examinations go ahead without prejudice to the Minister, without prejudice to the teachers and, above all, without prejudice to the students' position.

The House is aware from the numbers of copies of the letter from the principal in Kevin Street which were distributed today of what is really at issue, what has really excited the students. The principal of Kevin Street has said that even at this eleventh hour it would be possible to salvage the final year examinations. It is too late for the other ones. He said he is aware of the widespread and justified concern of the students of the college regarding their examinations this year and the possibility that they will not be held. He fully appreciates —and I am sure the House appreciates also—the seriousness of the situation particularly for final year students whose opportunity of seeking jobs with the qualifications for which they have worked so hard or for several years is now put in great jeopardy. It was our hope that eleventh hour efforts could be made to retrieve the situation. This is what I am doing, and I am doing it without acrimony, without looking for scapegoats. I am asking the Minister if he will utilise the resources at his disposal without prejudice to what happens later on to see that the students are satisfied.

The students themselves have stated they are in a very difficult position as between the Department and the TUI. They are asking for some kind of conversation, some kind of dialogue, some way to get around the table and to try to use intelligence, to use all the resources of human intelligence. We are dealing with education and we want to solve this problem. The Minister may be advised: "Do not do this. You will go to your defeat if you do this. Precedents, regulations, rules, and so on, are there". I am not asking the Minister to come to Canossa. I am simply asking him to do his best with his officials to get the students out of this serious dilemma. Mercy and compassion can season justice.

I realise how people working in a Department of State will attach great importance to the dangers of establishing a precedent, the dangers of making new regulations, but humanity, compassion and consideration are important also as elements in our community. It is for those I am appealing. I have had letters from students all over the country. I will quote from one letter from a student in the RTC in Cork. He said there are thousands of careers at stake and the whole regional college system is in danger if no examinations are set this year. In other words, he fears what may happen in the next academic year.

There has been a suggestion that the examinations could take place in September. That is not a very good solution. It has serious weaknesses. First of all, except in a particular economic situation, a particular type family situation, it is not easy—and anybody who did examinations in the autumn will understand and appreciate this—to keep up and organise studies over the summer holidays. It is easy to lose momentum. There is the second problem that the autumn period could be used for supplemental examinations for those who failed in the summer. The whole examination complex is postponed and transferred to the autumn. No form of repeat examination could take place before Chirstmas, thus disrupting another academic year.

There is no weakness in settling this examination problem without prejudice. There is no danger that the defences of Marlborough Street will be breached by such a settlement and that the whole complex of rules and regulations will be disrupted. The Minister knows and understands this himself. This is an appeal without acrimony to the Minister to use his good graces and his power and the not inconsiderable strength of the officers in his Department to make available for the students in the colleges of technology, in the third level colleges throughout the country, their examinations. By doing so he will be earning the gratitude of all who have the interests of education in general and students in particular at heart.

First I should like to clear away one specific. The medical laboratory technicians' examinations stoppage is not related to the question we are now discusing. It does not relate at all to the non-payment of teachers. It is an external matter arising from an industrial action by the technicians and craft assistants.

I should like to make it clear that the examinations of which we are speaking are not on a national basis but relate to each individual college. These college examinations are monitored by extern examiners appointed and paid by the National Council for Educational Awards. The National Council accept the examination results for the validation of the qualifications awarded to the students.

It is my considered view and that of my Department that the setting and marking of these examinations is an integral part of the duties and responsibilities of the teachers in the third-level institutions in question and I am confident that the great majority of professional educationists would concur in this view. An ex gratia payment was made in 1974 and again in 1975——

I want to point out that in the terms in which I was allowed to speak, I was asked to preclude these matters.

I appreciate that, but I have no control over the Minister's reply. The Deputy will appreciate that.

——simply because it was recognised that there was a time-consuming element in this work and that consideration was then being given to the question of a reduction in class contract teaching hours for the teachers involved. This latter aspect was worked out in 1975 and has now become fully operational. The result is that the teachers concerned are now conditioned to teaching hours of the order of 16 to 19 hours per week while being required to be in attendance at the college for 30 hours per week.

In relation to 1974 and 1975, the Department, while adhering to the principle which I have stated but at the same time recognising that the other negotiations were in progress, and not wishing to adopt a position which might have had an adverse bearing on the outcome on the broad general issues in relation to the teaching hours, agreed as an interim measure to the ex gratia payment to teachers engaged in examination work. This gesture of goodwill—that is what it was—was continued in 1975 to enable the agreement on teaching hours to which I have referred to become fully operational throughout the third-level technological colleges. Now that this situation has been realised, now that the revised teaching hours apply generally, there is no reason why any payment should be made.

The Teachers Union of Ireland appear to have taken the view that payment for examination work is a matter of right, even though they admit now and again that this work is an integral part of their duties. It is also an attitude which in my opinion, does no credit to professional people, showing as it does such scant regard for the welfare of their students. When one makes a gesture of goodwill to facilitate larger negotiations, one expects some semblance of reciprocity on the part of the recipients. One does not expect such a gesture to be seized on and turned into a blunt instrument to upset a principle and extract concessions.

When the education and welfare of the students are at stake, one expects attitudes of professional concern on the part of the teachers. Regrettably no such attitude appears to be forthcoming from the TUI on this issue. For my part, let me say where I stand on this issue. I hold that the setting and marking of these examinations is an integral part of the duties and responsibilities of the teachers in these institutions. I say further that the class content hours from 16 to 19 per week of 30 hours attendance affords them ample time to fulfil their duties in this respect. I call on them, even at this late stage, to resume a professional approach to the students in their charge.

To me, it is not a matter of the cost involved but the professional principle at stake. No teaching organisation has the right to use students as hostages for such an unworthy cause. I understand that in some programme today reference was made by Deputy Wilson to the suggestion that in every dispute there must be hostages. It is indeed true that hostages have been taken in this case: their own students have been taken hostages by the TUI in the interests of what Deputy Wilson described as a small some of money. I have not taken any hostages either in this instance or in the instance of Limerick. I do not see why the students should suffer, and I must insist that it is their own teachers who are making them suffer.

If this continues I may have to consider what further steps are open to me, for example, to consider whether payment of their salaries can continue to be authorised to teachers who are not prepared to carry out their normal duties. This is my position, which I think I have stated clearly on all occasions, and I will leave it at that.

I object to the format of the Minister's reply.

Deputy Wilson——

There are a number of aspects of this——

Is the Deputy disobeying the Chair?

I was told by the Chair that I could not deal——

The Minister's reply ends the matter. The Deputy may ask a question.

I have made my protest.

The Dáil adjourned at 8.55 p.m. until 11.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 5th May, 1976.

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