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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 May 1976

Vol. 290 No. 11

Statement by Ceann Comhairle.

On the Order of Business this morning Deputy Jack Lynch, the Leader of the Opposition, asked for a statement on the disallowance of a matter for the Adjournment on the ground of lack of ministerial responsibility when the same matter had been permitted to be raised by way of parliamentary question.

I wish to thank Deputy Lynch for the opportunity he has given the Chair to clarify this point.

In so far as parliamentary questions are concerned, the Standing Order is specific to the effect that questions to a Member of the Government must relate to public affairs connected with his Department or to matters of administration for which he is officially responsible. In interpreting this Standing Order the Chair has always taken the view that questions should not be disallowed unless (1) they are quite clearly outside the scope of the functions of any Department or (2) they relate to matters for which Ministers in the past have refused to accept official responsibility. Under this latter heading a whole series of precedents, going back many years, has been established in relation to State-sponsored bodies set up under Statute. In the case of a large number of these, for example, CIE, Aer Lingus, the Arts Council, Bord Fáilte, ESB, RTE —questions relating to their day-to-day administration have been disallowed because Minister have refused to accept official responsibility.

There are, however, many other State-sponsored bodies about whose general activities Ministers have supplied information in response to parliamentary questions even though they could not be held in law to have official responsibility. The most obvious example in this category is the Land Commission. Down through the years successive Ministers for Lands have supplied information on the acquision and division of land, a matter which is by law reserved entirely for the Land Commission. I am sure that the House would not wish that the Chair should apply the rule relating to official responsibility so strictly that it would be denied information of a kind it had traditionally received.

The position in relation to matters raised for debate on the motion for the Adjournment of the Dáil is, however, quite different. There are, basically, five criteria for the admission of such matters and they have always been strictly applied by the Chair. The first of those is official responsibility. The others, as a matter of interest, are advocacy or criticism of legislation, repetition or anticipation of debate, sub judice and matter more suitable for a substantive motion. The Chair examines every matter raised for the Adjournment to ensure that it is not in conflict with these criteria. If official responsibility cannot be established, the matter is not in order. Some examples from past rulings will highlight this point. The Social Welfare Acts provide for deciding officers and appeals officers to determine the amounts of benefit due to social welfare claimants. Parliamentary questions in this area have never been disallowed, but no matter for the Adjournment has been permitted which sought to deal with the amount of benefit awarded as it is not the official responsibility of the Minister for Social Welfare to make the determination in any particular case. A similar position obtains in regard to matters which are within the statutory responsibility of the Land Commission, to which I have referred, or of State-sponsored bodies in general.

I trust that this statement clarifies the position for the Leader of the Opposition and for the House in general. Perhaps I should make it clear that the procedure I have described relates only to Questions and the half hour Adjournment Debate. The House is not, of course, precluded from debating such matters as the Leader of the Opposition refers to on other occasions. For example, a Deputy can table a substantive motion dealing with the matter in question and have it brought forward for debate. I trust that this assists the Leader of the Opposition.

May I make a speech on your statement?

The kernel of the justification of your ruling yesterday lies in your reference to matters in which Ministers have no responsibility. I do not think I have to tell you that we on this side of the House have recently been concerned with some of your rulings of this nature as being unduly restrictive of our democratic function in this House and of our public duty in having matters of this nature fully debated.

When this question was tabled yesterday and permitted to be tabled and answered by you it was reasonable for Deputies to expect that they could raise the matters on the Adjournment without having recourse to the excuse of lack of ministerial responsibility. Much of what you have said today seems to be incompatible with one part of your statement and the other. However, I will not make any observation on that. I will confine my remarks to saying that the Minister has accepted full responsibility publicly here for matters affecting the contract which was under discussion here yesterday. The contract concerns the erection of a fertiliser plant at Marino Point, Cobh, County Cork, for which an international firm named Kellog have got the overall design and to some extent the construction contract.

There are several aspects of this particular plant which are the subject of different contracts. In respect of one of these contracts the Minister, in the course of the debate on the Second Reading of the Industrial Development (No. 2) Bill, 1975, on the 11th December last, as reported in column 1474 of the Official Report of that day in connection with another part of the contracts affecting the NET plant at Marino Point, said:

The decision in regard to NET was a difficult one. I went into the matter thoroughly and I should like to state emphatically that I take full responsibility for the matter.

The Minister apparently yesterday was willing to take responsibility as well but the Ceann Comhairle decided otherwise. I referred to your statement as being incompatible, one part with the other. May I say your reason for not allowing the question to be raised on the Adjournment seems to be incompatible with what the Minister publicly declared as his responsibility and your interpretation of his responsibility.

I have tried to explain the position of the Chair in this matter as clearly as I can. I would like to emphasise to the Leader of the Opposition and all Members of this House that in matters of this kind the Chair is following precedent built up since the establishment of this State. There is no question of the personal choice of the occupant of the Chair entering into these decisions. I follow strictly on the lines laid down by my predecessors and the advice of the Oireachtas staff. In this regard, in the case of the question under reference, the Minister in his answer said yesterday: "The placing of contracts by NET is a management function and as such is for decision by the board of the company. My consent is not required." The subsequent information furnished by the Minister was stated to be supplied to him by NET. In these circumstances, I had to disallow the matter for the Adjournment Debate in accordance with the practice and procedure I have already described.

I accept your right to make these rulings but may I respectfully submit that I do not agree with them.

The Deputy is entitled to his opinion.

Is it not fairly obvious——

The Deputy cannot debate this matter. I am calling the next business.

There may be procedure but I may say there certainly is not any precedent for the type of conduct operated by NET in this particular project.

On a point of information, could I ask if this is the ruling of the Chair why it is so that in the past the Chair has allowed matters to be discussed on the Adjournment of the Dáil relating to the activities of Gaeltarra Éireann but does not now allow the activities of Nítrigin Éireann to be discussed on the Adjournment?

I can only refer the Deputy to my statement.

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