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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 29 Jun 1976

Vol. 291 No. 13

Fisheries (Amendment) Bill, 1976: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

When the debate was adjourned, I was dealing with points made by Opposition speakers and I mentioned the diversity of views during the debate on salmon conservancy. A number of Deputies suggested that we should be much more liberal in the allocation of licences, but others expressed opposite views. Salmon is a very valuable asset and we must always consider conservancy of those stocks. At the same time, we must take account of what is happening in so far as the economy is concerned. Salmon exports in 1975 amounted to £3,129,994 as against £1.88 million in 1974. Netting is mainly responsible for salmon catches and it is the fishing system that has come in for the most severe criticism.

This is an industry which boosted our exports last year by more than £3 million and we could diminish that by making regulations that would be so rigid as to drastically reduce our intake. That would be unwise. However, we must make laws to limit the number of licences issued and if, as a result of our experience this year, we discover there is a need for more drastic limitation, measures will be introduced to do so. I have introduced a number of by-laws aimed at salmon conservancy. Deputies should be conversant with them because they have been publicly announced. In the circumstances they are fair and reasonable.

The issue of licences is a very vexed question. I mentioned on the last occasion that if there were no restrictions we would have applications for more than 5,000 extra drift net licences. We cannot do that. We must impose restrictions and as a result many people are dissatisfied and are naturally very critical. Every fairminded person will agree that we cannot extend the regulations or improve the criteria for the issue of drift net licences without damaging our salmon stocks. Board of conservators have a very difficult job. It is their duty to determine applications in accordance with control orders that I make, and from the information at my disposal I can say the boards do a very good job. It is a thankless one because board members are criticised by unsuccessful applicants. Still, they deal with applications fairly. In two areas, two boards were abolished and two administrators were appointed. These officers who are of the highest integrity are doing an excellent job. When dealing with applications they act with complete impartiality.

Reference was made to the present position in the Cork Fishery Board area which is now administered by an administrator. He is thoroughly conversant with fisheries, particularly salmon fisheries, because of his work in the Department and he had no connection prior to his appointment with Cork county. I felt it advisable to appoint a man of the highest integrity, a man who understood the salmon industry and had no local connections, because I could see difficulties arising if a local man were appointed to such a position. It is he, in common with the other administrator and the 15 boards of conservation for drift net licences is successful. I have no function in that respect. My functions relate to laying down the criteria on which applications are determined and the number of licences to be issued by each board.

Deputy Molloy was exceptionally critical of what was happening in Cork. In 1972 244 drift net licences were issued in Cork. At that time no restriction obtained and licences were freely available by paying the prescribed fee. The Cork Fishery Board area comprises the greater part of the Cork county coastline, from Castletownbere, beyond Cork city to Ballycotton. The administrator has reduced the number of licences in that area from 244 in 1972 to 135 at present. This shows that, instead of issuing licences in parts of county Cork without justification, the administrator has imposed stringent regulations and scrutinised each application to ensure that it complies with the regulations set down by the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries. I am satisfied that he has determined these applications with complete impartiality. This proves that when people allege that the Cork Fishery Board are doing something underhand in the granting of licences, they are mistaken.

Because of the regulations the administrator had to reject many applications. In the Cork area—I am sure the same applies to other areas also— many people feel very much aggrieved about this. I am satisfied that everything is fair and above board. If a person qualifies for a licence he gets it and vice versa, with one exception— and this could apply in any of the boards—when the number of drift net licences is limited. The number for the Cork area is 135 but if there are 140 qualified applicants the administrator, of necessity, must rule out five. He will rule out the five who have the least claim to a licence even though under the regulations they qualify.

The Galway board was mentioned. That board were unable to issue their full quota of licences because of the lack of qualified applicants.

Because of the regulations.

I have no doubt the board were justified in their decision and that it was mandatory on them not to grant licences to those who were not qualified.

I referred to the change which came about as a result of the change of Government. I believe the Fianna Fáil Government got very frightened with the reports which came to hand in 1972, and took exceptionally stringent measures to conserve our salmon stocks, mainly by reducing drift net licences. While we get complaints from Galway Deputies about the present position on the limitation of the number of licences and the feeling that more licences should be issued, we find these complaints have no justification. We have substantially increased the number in some western areas. In the Connemara area, under the order made by Deputy Fahey, the number of draft net licences issued was 16 and we increased that to 30; in the Galway district it was 25 and we increased it to 38; in Ballinakill it was increased from 31 to 47.

There was no discrimination against Galway or any other county. Their proportions increased in the number of licences issued. It has been alleged by some people that the reason why this order was changed was political, and that the Government were anxious to gain a few extra votes by making drift net licences more freely available than Fianna Fáil had in mind to do. Everybody knows that Fianna Fáil wanted to phase out drift netting. In countering the political charges I said in Deputy Gallagher's county, and I repeat, that if one was to view this on the votes question as is alleged, it would be far more advantageous to do away with drift netting because for every one person interested in our fisheries who is in favour of drift netting at least nine are against it. All the inland men engaged in fishing and many people living not too far away from the sea are against it, so that instead of helping us politically these measures that we have taken are doing quite the opposite. I am assuming that people will now see the justification for these measures, when we had an income of more than £3 million from salmon exports last year.

I have no doubt that these questions which have arisen about irregularity in the granting of licences and the allegations in relation to the question of political motivation will cease. Let no one think that we are anxious to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. We are very watchful of our species because of its value to us and we are anxious to ensure that essential and necessary conservancy measures are taken and will continue to be taken. This will be reviewed again when the present salmon season concludes.

I put it to Opposition Deputies, were we justified in our actions to help our fishermen to £3 million additional income from the sea by way of salmon fisheries, which represents about 33? per cent of our total catch? Were it not for the measures that this Government have taken so far as our salmon fisheries are concerned many fishermen would not be doing as well as they are at present and many would find it hard to make ends meet. The income of more than £3 million from our exports of salmon is a big advantage to our fishermen and to our economy. It is also an advantage to processors and others who are directly or indirectly engaged in the work.

Questions were raised by Deputy Daly in relation to issues which are not relevant to the limited measure before us. He mentioned the need for conservancy and particularly the improvement in the pay conditions of waterkeepers. Waterkeepers have a very difficult job and since this Government took office their pay has been increased almost three times over. It was around £17 a week when we took office and it is now about £45 a week. There may be changes in new legislation to deal with their position and conditions of employment and so on. That remains to be seen. It relates to what final policies emerge from the legislation which I hope to have before the House before the end of this year. As we are dealing with such a valuable species of fish I will say that the Department are doing everything possible to try to limit illegal fishing. I appreciate that it is almost impossible to wipe it out, but illegal fishing is exceptionally harmful and so far as I am concerned any people who are found to be fishing illegally and who are punished in accordance with the laws of the land will not get much sympathy from me or from the Department. Such people do not deserve any sympathy.

Waterkeepers have a very difficult job in the successful apprehending of men or women who engage in illegal fishing and bringing them before the courts. I do not think it would be right for any higher authority to interfere in any way with the decisions of the courts. Without reflecting in any way on the decisions of the justices in fishery prosecutions, the punishments in most cases are rather light. I do not see any cases reported in the papers where severe penalties are imposed by justices. Everybody in this House will agree with the viewpoint that we must try to get people to respect our fishery laws in the same way that every other law in the land is respected. If they want the law changed, they will then try to get it changed by constitutional methods, either by bringing pressure to bear on the Government and the Department with sound viable suggestions in relation to the changes necessary, and say where they are necessary or else by changing the Government, as happened on the last occasion.

The second part of the Bill deals with the increase in the licences.

Everybody will agree that the present licence fees are completely out of date. They were set down years ago when money was much more valuable than it is now. I do not agree with the view expressed by Deputy Molloy that £2 for a rod licence would be a severe imposition. I cannot say yet what, if any, fees will be chargeable to licence applicants, but I cannot agree that £2 would have any serious impact on any individual.

Does the Parliamentary Secretary agree with the principle that everybody who fishes in a lake or a river must pay a licence fee?

I am inclined to agree. The State is providing a good deal of money for sea fisheries and for inland fisheries and I think that those who are directly benefiting should pay some contribution and not ask others who have no interest in fishing to bear the full burden. There are safeguards in this Bill so far as this House is concerned and I had in mind particularly that if this Bill were to be extended, say, in 1977, it could not be done just by an order without the approval of this House and of the Upper House. In the same way the licence fees cannot be increased without the approval of both Houses of the Oireachtas. If increases arise of which Deputies are critical they will have an opportunity of expressing their views here.

I thank the House for the measure of agreement accorded to this measure. As far as I could ascertain the views expressed by the principal spokesman on fisheries, Deputy Gallagher, are somewhat similar to my own. I do not think there is a very wide gulf between him and myself in regard to salmon fishing.

Question put and agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining Stages today.
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