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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 26 Oct 1976

Vol. 293 No. 3

Private Members' Business. - European Community Fishery Policy: Motion.

I move:

That Dáil Éireann, conscious of the vital importance of a developing fishing industry to Ireland's economic development and of Ireland's legal and equitable rights, declares its total opposition to any future European Community common fishery policy which does not reserve exclusively to Irish fishermen a coastal zone of 50 miles.

Just before I stood up my colleague, Deputy Joe Brennan, gave me a piece of paper which purports to be a proposed amendment from the Minister. I do not know whether or not there is an amendment. I was informed some time this evening that the Government were considering putting down an amendment, but I could not get a copy of it, and I do not know whether what I have been given here represents that proposed amendment. If this is the case I must protest in the strongest possible manner for his not allowing us to have note of it considerably in advance of this debate. An amendment of this kind would represent a significant change in attitude on the part of the Minister. However, I shall say no more about it until such time as he may present it to us formally.

In the first instance I wish to put this debate in its proper context. Obviously our people generally are very much aware that at this time important eleventh-hour stage negotiations are being conducted on their behalf by the Minister for Foreign Affairs, negotiations which will affect vitally not only our fishing industry but, through that industry, the development of our economy in the years ahead. For that reason it is essential that we here discuss something which has not been discussed already, namely, the basis of the case on which we rely to protect, first, our fishing industry and, through it our economy. Secondly, we must point out the legal, the equitable and the economic arguments which are cogent in terms of the motion before the House, a motion which accords with the argument the Minister has been making at the Community on our behalf, the argument for an exclusive 50-mile limit for the fishing industry.

I should hope that this debate will have the effect of highlighting some points which may not have been presented already by the Minister and will highlight also the common stance on the part of all parties here. This in turn will strengthen the Minister's position in bringing the negotiations to a conclusion. We intend the debate to be used for that purpose and we trust that in considering the legal and economic implications of the situation very positive points will emerge.

In order to put the whole question of this new fishery regime within the Community in its proper context we must recognise that this debate has been brought about by the fact that a new concept has emerged within the past four or five years within the sphere of international fisheries and international waters. I refer to the concept of the economic zone. When we signed the Treaty of Accession to the EEC the economic-zone concept as it has developed now—a 200-mile economic zone for the coastal States such as Ireland—had not been even promoted internationally although it had been mooted by a couple of countries in South America. Therefore, our Treaty of Accession in January, 1972, was embarked on in the light of the situation as it was then and that situation did not include the concept of a 200-mile economic zone. I do not think anybody within the EEC would argue to the contrary.

The development of this concept had certain consequences both for states which basically were landlocked and for those which basically were coastal. For basically landlocked states such as Germany, Holland and Belgium, the consequences by comparison with the consequences for this country were that for them coastal states such as Norway, Iceland and ourselves for that matter but particularly those outside the community would take positions which would be in accord with international law but which on their waters would extend the rights of these coastal states to 200 miles. Obviously, this would limit the rights of other basically landlocked states which up to then had used these waters for the purpose of fishing.

Perhaps the Community would have wished that this concept of an economic zone had not been promoted because by having major economic zone areas through their coastal states by comparison with such countries as Norway, Sweden, the US and Canada, the Community would stand to yield more to this new developing international right than it stood to gain. This new development was promoted from South America, to Canada, to Norway and right around the African coast. The EEC had to take account of this concept and to a very considerable extent to take measures to protect their position or, to put it more correctly, to diminish the impact on their fishing fleets in particular and on their fisheries policy generally. The situation was summed up concisely for us during a recent visit to the Commission when one of the senior officials there remarked that the Community's proposals represent a sharing out of the misery because to some extent there would be involved an element of misery compared with what had been the situation previously.

It is quite clear, from the Commission's proposals which were published in great detail on 23rd September last, that the first priority so far as the Commission are concerned—the Minister has emphasised this point—is to give the Community a negotiating stance with these third countries which are extending their fishery waters by way of the economic zone concept. Because such countries as Denmark, Norway and Iceland and others are taking this step, it is important from the point of view of the Community countries that have fished traditionally within what will now be the economic zones of third countries that their rights are protected. In pursuance of this protection the Commission in their proposals stated that in their consideration present circumstances called for immediate action for the Community to protect their legitimate interests in those maritime zones which are most likely to be affected seriously as a result of such extension measures. Therefore, it can be recognised from the start that the Commission and the Community, perhaps understandably, are concerned as a first priority in this regard to protect the right of access of fleets of member states to third country waters. Accordingly, they propose that the limit would extend to 200 miles so that the Commission on behalf of the Community could negotiate a quid pro quo so that Britain, for instance, would have rights to access in certain traditional grounds in Icelandic waters, or Norwegian waters, and France similarly and others. All of this has to be done before 1st January, 1977, because that is the date on which Norway, Iceland, America, Canada and many other countries will be extending their coastal zones.

We can see the priorities in the minds of the Commission and the European Community. I readily acknowledge that the Minister has already pointed up this, at least from the manner in which I have interpreted the reports coming back from the European Community. In the rush —and one has to acknowledge it is a rush—to give the Community negotiators a common position vis-á-vis third countries to protect the fleets of the major economies within Europe, the European Community have not looked within the Community itself to see what should be done, what is just, right, legal and equitable within the Community in the first instance, to create a position whereby they can have this common stance against third countries.

Putting it simply, it seems that Ireland in particular is being asked to give the European Community the mandate the Commission seek through the Council to negotiate with third countries by 1st January, 1977, by making this declaration and, when we have done that and given that benefit to the Community, they will look to the internal regime within the European Community and share out, on a certain basis to which I will refer, what they regard as being the diminishing fishery resources of the European Community. In other words, as a small undeveloped country, we are being asked to contribute in advance to the European Community what they can only get through us, without any firm recognition of our right to a guarantee for our fishermen and our economy for years to come. If we were to acknowledge now, without conditions which would protect our fishermen and our economy, that we will give the major extension in the waters off the European shores, those off the Irish coast, and afterwards negotiate, we would be in a very weak position indeed.

It is sometimes overlooked that it is only through us, as a coastal State, that the Community can have any extension to 200 miles off our coast out into the North Atlantic. We are the only agent of the Community who can give them that exclusive 200 miles from which will be excluded the fishing fleets of third countries, Bulgarian, Russian, American, Canadian, or whatever. Fortunately for the Community, Ireland has off its shores a major economic zone which, by making this declaration, we can bring into a new Community pool which would not be there without us as an island state. The Community have to recognise our major contribution in ensuring that at least from 50 to 200 miles of that economic zone would be reserved for Community boats.

It has to be stated at this stage that there are certain natural advantages and disadvantages to being an island. For long we have lived here with the natural disadvantage of being an island in terms of the European Community, namely, being on the geographic periphery of the European Community. This natural disadvantage can be illustrated in very many ways but mainly in the increased transport costs we have to bear both as to the importation of our raw materials and the export of our finished goods. Being an open economy, Ireland relies more than most—and on this the Government and the Opposition are ad idem—on imported materials for our industry, and we rely to a very considerable extent on exports to the Community for the continuing development of our economy.

That is the natural disadvantage we have vis-á-vis Germany and Holland, and others, who are in the centre of the market and who, fortunately for themselves, have exploited that natural advantage to the point that the Community have always been talking in terms of the regional imbalances which exist between the centre, notably Belgium, Germany, Holland, France, and so on, and the periphery, notably ourselves and probably the south of Italy and now, it seems, Britain as well to a certain extent. That is the natural advantage they have of being in the centre of the market which they have exploited.

It does not compensate fully for that natural disadvantage of being on the periphery, but we have a natural advantage of being an island with resources off our shores which the landlocked countries, with all their advantages, have not got. In terms of the whole principles of the Community, in terms of the principle of the Community's regional programme, that of the eliminating of regional imbalances, in terms of the principles and the motivations of the Treaty of Rome, and in terms of the determination of the Community to move towards economic and monetary union and, through that, towards political union, surely we have a very strong case for saying we should at least be allowed, and not only allowed but encouraged and assisted, to develop our natural advantage. Our Community partners should be very reluctant, indeed, to deprive us of our present advantage and our future potential so that they can cushion the blow—and it is a blow to some extent and that has to be recognised—which these powerful economies have faced as a result of the introduction of this economic zone concept.

Had Ireland not joined the Community, where would these countries be in relation to the development of this economic zone? Basically, they would have no rights apart from off the coast of France and Northern Scotland, certainly no rights which would compare with what they will now have within that economic zone, which we are contributing and only we can contribute to the European Community. On that basis—and that is why we have mentioned legal and equitable rights— there should be some quid pro quo for the major contribution we are making to the Community at this stage of the international development of new concepts.

This is necessary for the record. I want to refer to the single negotiating text of the International Law of the Sea Conference which makes it quite clear that this economic zone concept which is now being very consistently supported is a concept, as described in Article 45, which gives sovereign rights for the purpose of exploring, exploiting, conserving and managing natural resources, including fisheries, to the coastal states. Such countries as Iceland and Norway, and many others, will be exercising sovereign rights in relation to that economic zone.

These are the rights which we are now prepared to share with the Community. In this connection it is important to recognise that if we did not make the unilateral declaration on our part by January, 1977, all the waters to within 12 miles of our shores would be open waters to the fleets of every nation, Russia, Bulgaria and so on. This the Germans, French, Dutch, Belgians and the Danish would have to share with all other nations, because there is no reference in that text of the Second Committee of the United Nations Law of the Sea Conference to a Community bloc of nations as coastal states. There is no such position. It is a coastal state alone which has the right conferred or proposed to be conferred under the law of the sea single negotiating text.

I want to refer to some of the legal positions that arise here. There is one of them which applies to us and us alone. I refer to our Treaty of Accession to the European Community and particularly to Article 103 of that Treaty. I say to the Minister that I am glad that belatedly he brought Article 103 into play at the last meeting of the Council of Ministers. I attended an all-party delegation from this House in Brussels about two weeks ago. I have been calling on the Minister for some months here to state the legal position which I have raised in relation to the Treaty, to the international law and to other matters, which secure our position. From the reaction we got from the Commission officials less than two weeks ago in Brussels, it was obvious that the first that they had heard of the argument based on Article 103 was when I presented it on behalf of this party, but as a member of the Commission, to that Commission on that day. At no stage was there any evidence in their reaction but that this was the first time they ever took account of this very cogent argument. I am glad the Minister subsequently acknowledged that and used it, but he did it a bit late in the day.

I have been saying for the last six months that it is our legal position, even disregarding the Treaty, which gives us our strength. I refer to Article 103 of our Treaty of Accession which caused a significant change of position on the part of the Community officials who were there then.

It reads:

Before the 31st December, 1982, the Commission shall present a report to the Council of the economic and social developments of the coastal areas of the Member States and the state of stocks.

That is obviously a contemplation of a new regime to be introduced by the beginning of January, 1983. That was what was contemplated on the date of our Treaty of Accession, before the economic zone was ever brought into being. Before a new fishery regime could be introduced by the Community they would do a survey of the social and economic developments of the coastal areas of the member states and the state of stocks. This is understandable, because they could not introduce a new regime with all its effects without knowing the existing position of the economic and social development of the coastal areas. Therefore, whatever they would introduce as a new proposal would take account of that.

The Community, as became clear to us on that occasion two weeks' ago, have not even initiated a survey of the economic and social developments of the coastal areas, much less concluded a report which would enable and entitle them to introduce a new fishery regime of the type they are now proposing. Then they come to talk in terms of vital needs of areas. How can they talk of vital needs when they have not conducted a survey of the social and economic position of the coastal areas? I am glad we made this breakthrough and that belatedly the Minister followed it up. It is one of the strongest cases we have in this area, even relying on the Treaty of Accession, that the Commission are not yet ready, on their own admission under that article, to introduce new proposals.

Let me now refer to how evident it is that they are not so ready. I refer to page 12 of the explanatory memorandum of the Commission, and I quote:

It is therefore proposed that a Community reserve stock should be established for each of the main species and that the amount of this reserve stock should be fixed each year on the basis of the vital needs of the fishermen in these regions and the extent to which hatches have been reduced below their previous level.

That is the reference to vital needs. Nowhere in this document is there a definition of what "vital needs" represent. How can there be when no survey has been done of the social and economic development of these areas concerned? So we are asked to accept an allocation on the basis of vital needs which are not defined. Then we find:

The allocation of these should be done primarily on the basis of the Member States' fishing performance in the past related to a reference period to be determined.

Now we come to the suggestion that the quotas proposed in this document would be on the basis of our fishing performance in the past. That takes very little account of our vital needs in the present and future. Over and above that it is totally unacceptable because quotas based on fishing performance in the past do not take account of the developing state of our fishing industry. These are based on the fact that those countries who have exploited and over-exploited the waters we are now trying to protect will be the ones to gain the advantage. Those of us who have not exploited them in the past, in the sense that we have not almost cleared them out as some others have done, will not be able to gain the advantage having regard to the historical performance basis. Also we take the firm view that quotas, in any event, cannot be properly monitored or effectively implemented. Therefore, the Community stance in relation to that is contradictory and it must be pointed out to be so. They cannot suggest that these quotas should be reviewed at the end of every five-year period, for in a five-year period the whole Irish fishing industry could have been totally undermined with nothing that we could have done about it in the meantime. They must recognise that this is not a satisfactory position for them to take up. Quotas are also unacceptable to us because they are based on assumed rights of member states as distinct from what I would propose before I conclude, an agreement, a concession, a licence from the member states, to those which would not interfere with the development of our fishing industry and which would ensure that our fishing industry, after consultation regarding the interests of our fishermen and others, would not only be protected but be developed.

In relation to the Council regulation of 19th January, 1976, the recitals setting out the reasons why that regulation is introduced and laying down a new common structural policy for the fishing industry have no reference to this. The Minister will know what I mean by "recitals". The need to develop a new structure for the fishing industry is pointed out but nowhere is there any reference to the special need there is for coastal regions and for development of coastal regions or to the undeveloped coastal regions which should be central to any future European Community fishery policy. That is a Council regulation of 19th January this year. I do not know whether the Minister entered any caveat, doubt, restriction or whatever to that regulation when it was being passed, but it seems that on the face of it it is there to protect the Community fishermen as a flock and is not in any way geared towards protecting the interests of coastal states or of inshore fishermen of our coast.

There is Protocol 30 to our Treaty of Accession, and it is well to refer to it at this stage. It binds the high contracting parties to recall that the fundamental objectives of the European Economic Community include the steady improvement of the living standards and working conditions of the people of the member states and the harmonious development of their economies by reducing the differences existing between the various regions and the backwardness of the less-favoured regions. That is quite clear as a special protocol recognising our position. On the basis of that I agree to recommend to this end that the Community institutions implement all the needs and procedures laid down by the European Economic Community Treaty. Unless that Protocol is to be totally ignored, here is a clear case where the regional imbalance and the economic disadvantages of Ireland are spelled out and are evident. Equally clear, the Community's obligations to us must be ensured to a new common fisheries regime.

My colleague, Deputy Gallagher, will be dealing with the actual fisheries aspect but in the short time at my disposal it is important that I refer to what seems a reasonable position for Ireland to adopt having regard to our rights under international maritime law and under the Treaty of Accession. At least the Community must conduct the survey they are obliged to conduct before they introduce a binding new regime. I do not know why we should be asked to suffer as a nation at this late stage of the day simply because the Community have failed to do this, that is, if they were ever asked to do it. I suspect they were not asked to conduct this survey until about two weeks ago, until we attended. I should like the Minister to let us know if he has asked the Community during the last six or 12 months to do this survey. I doubt it because the reaction of the officials in the Community when I mentioned it was that this was a new point that would have to be considered.

We support the Government's position and that of the nation generally in calling for an exclusive 50-mile zone. In doing so we will be conceding to other member states what they would not otherwise have, namely, exclusive rights from 50 to 200 miles. It is important to recognise that the EEC countries in any reference period in the last five, ten or 15 years, have probably taken more than 75 per cent of the catch from what will now be the new 50-mile limit we are proposing. I cannot speak for the fishermen but I think they recognise that they could not fully supply the market in Europe on their own, even if they were given an exclusive 50-mile zone. To that extent it appears we have a position where we can negotiate very effectively, namely, that our exclusive right as a coastal state be acknowledged. We are not asking for 200 miles—although other coastal states will be doing that at the Law of the Sea Conference—but we are asking for 50 miles and that we would do in relation to fisheries what we are doing in relation to exploration in other areas, namely, negotiate licences to be reviewed annually with the fishing fleets of certain member states in designated areas within the 50-mile zone. These licences would be reviewed at the end of each year after consultation with the vital interests of the fishermen and those connected with the fishing industry.

There is ample precedent for this position also in the single negotiating text of the Law of the Sea Conference which has been adopted. That precedent will be found in Article 51 (2) of that text which states:

The coastal state shall determine its capacity to harvest the living resources of the exclusive economic zone, namely, 200 miles, but where the coastal state does not have the capacity to harvest the entire allowable catch it shall, through agreements or other arrangements, and pursuant to the terms, conditions and regulations referred to in paragraph (4) give other states access to the surplus of the allowable catch.

Paragraph (4) clearly indicates that such surplus can be agreed by negotiation, by licence, to specific fleets in designated areas and the cost of this licence would be of benefit to the national economy, as would happen in exploration areas. This is what Iceland is doing at the moment, not within 50 miles but within 200 miles. That country is bartering its surplus catch in an economic exchange of other products that are crucial to the Icelandic economy, as they would be crucial to us.

This would guarantee the development of our fishing industry. Secondly, it would ensure that any decision would be taken in this Parliament in relation to any development or further extension of licences, having regard to the needs of our fishermen and the economy. Thirdly, it would be fair, reasonable and equitable so far as the EEC is concerned in ensuring that the market would continue to be supplied.

Some arguments have been made about the difficulty of policing an area of 50 miles. Commission officials recognised—some even suggested— that it is easier to police an extended zone than a narrow zone, despite what the Minister for Defence has said, for the simple reason that if a boat comes in from a long distance to within ten or 20 miles of the shore it will take a longer time to get out. It has been the experience of Iceland that it is quite practicable to police the extended zone they have introduced because of the time it takes a boat to get in and to go out. It has also been the experience of Iceland—a smaller economy than ours—that they have been quite well able to police the waters, sometimes with trawlers that were converted for that purpose.

I am sorry that the Minister for Foreign Affairs who has been doing so much on our behalf in the Community—subject to the qualifications I mentioned—should have been so totally and utterly undermined by a Minister of his own Government when he was negotiating. The Minister for Defence freely conceded, wrongly as it happened, that we could not police a 50-mile limit.

As a result of some of the arguments on the legal issues and on the basis of international agreements which have been presented to the EEC, I believe there has been a change of stance which will enable our Minister to negotiate effectively to give us the minimum guarantees for our fishing industry and for our economy and to share with the Community what they would not have were it not for us, namely, the benefits our economic zone can confer on them.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries.

I would point out that I have just now received a copy of an amendment to our motion. I must protest in the strongest possible way. Surely the amendment could have been made available to us some time during the day.

I move the following amendment:

At the end of the motion to add the following:

"or otherwise guarantee the future development of the fishing industry".

Deputy O'Kennedy is a senior counsel and he should know very well the consequences of the motion he is proposing here. He should realise that at a critical time when the Minister for Foreign Affairs is negotiating on the fishery question he is binding him and the other negotiators hand and foot. We must give the Minister some freedom and flexibility in his negotiations. Everybody admires the Minister and the stand he has taken in negotiating our fisheries development within the Community. Surely as a senior counsel Deputy O'Kennedy will not assert here that the Minister's hands should be tied in the very week that the negotiations are moving towards a critical period. It is quite reasonable then to add this amendment.

I am very pleased that so many people are interested in the development of our fisheries now. During my more than 25 years' membership of this House I have again and again stressed the importance of our fishing industry, and I have asked this House to take more cognisance of its potential than it has done down through the years through the different Governments. I welcome very much indeed the public attention focused on fisheries during this year. I welcome in particular the attention the national and provincial Press have given to the industry, that they have made it quite clear that this is an industry that has been forgotten and that it is about time to rectify our errors of the past.

I welcome also that a number of fishery organisations and people who are not directly concerned have added their voice in support of our claim which has been put forward by the Minister for Foreign Affairs. The Government have made their position quite clear again and again as to where they stand on this question. Only yesterday at a very pleasant function where a very well deserved award was made to BIM by a European management committee, the Taoiseach addressed himself in particular to this question. He made the Government's viewpoint quite clear, that our policy is firmly the policy being pursued by Deputy Garret FitzGerald, Minister for Foreign Affairs, in Europe at present.

While we welcome all the support, vocal and otherwise, that the industry is getting, I cannot see what purpose this motion is intended to serve. I am not saying Deputies are not entitled to put down a motion in this House and to address themselves to this vital question, but, as I say, the negotiations are at a delicate stage. As far as I know, everybody agrees with the stand being taken by the Government by their main negotiator, the Minister for Foreign Affairs, and we are exceptionally fortunate that we have a man of his capacity to lead our negotiating team. He has put a great deal of work and industry into this matter and has made himself conversant with all aspects of it.

We will wait for the result.

I will give the potential result later on. I want to remind the House that the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries and the Department of Foreign Affairs have been working as a united team on this question to prepare our case for presentation to our colleagues in the Community. I must pay a very well deserved tribute to the personnel of both Departments for the great work they have put into this task. The senior officials have burned a great deal of midnight oil on this question, because we appreciate its importance. Deputy O'Kennedy made an interruption.

No, I did not.

I stated at the outset that I always held that fisheries was an important industry in this island country, that a great deal of our hundreds of miles of coastline was not being developed, that there was so much additional employment particularly in depressed areas for our men if we were to invest more money as this Government are doing, in the industry. First of all, we have the men on the high seas catching the fish, then the men on the shore processing the fish, another group selling it and transporting it, another group building boats. Therefore, this industry was generating a great deal of employment in many different directions. Anyone coming from a seaport town such as I come from can see that day in and day out. It was for that reason that I and a number of other people drew attention to this in the 'sixties and 'seventies in particular when we were negotiating our entry to the EEC. I stated then and I state now that we made vital mistakes at that time. We did not attach to that industry the importance it was entitled to. We more or less ignored it. We accepted this common fisheries policy of the EEC, and everybody knows what is entailed in this policy.

I could have brought a number of Dáil Reports along with me and quoted statements that were made during that debate at that period on the fisheries question, but I have not made a habit of bringing forward quotations that are available to Members of the House if they wish to look them up. However, this is the text of our proposal. This is what we had been talking about in the 1970-71 period leading up to the signing of the Treaty. It was said at that time by speakers who are now in Opposition that we had to take it or leave it and that there was nothing we could do about fisheries. I assert again that it was wrong and that we could have drawn attention to what fisheries meant to us as an island country, that we could put ourselves more or less on the same plain as Iceland as far as fisheries were concerned. But as I say, fisheries were overlooked. It is all there in that documentation. That is not my documentation but the official documentation of the Department of that time which was largely ignored. What did we do in our negotiations, and what does this document say we tried to do? I hate to be putting such statements forward here in Dáil Éireann when our Minister is carrying on the negotiations so effectively, but when a motion is put down by the Opposition party, a Deputy must address himself to it factually and give a factual appraisal as to what he thinks is the position, particularly in my case as Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries.

What we sought then was to be left alone. You could use that term to describe the kind of application we made. It was an attitude of "For Heaven's sake, leave us what we have for ten years. Allow us this derogation for ten years; allow us this 12-mile coastal limit with all the historic rights of six countries to fish in the outer six miles". I never believed in that kind of system. While quotas may sometimes be necessary I am always doubtful as to how certain you can be that, if you give a country a quota of 1,000 tons of herring, that country will not catch 2,000 or 3,000 while maintaining that it has not exceeded its quota. I and the Department see those difficulties but at the time of negotiations the question for review then was—it is amazing to think of it now—decreasing our limits and free access. The emphasis was on free access. Every Irish fisherman was scared at the time but he was doubly assured that he need not worry, that "once we get in everything will be all right". There is nothing in this document to bear out the claim that any case at all was made in support of that contention. Anybody looking back on the case we made for an island country could only conclude that we should hang our heads. That is the position as I see it.

What is the document? The Parliamentary Secretary does not quote what is in it.

Negotiations with the European Community of the Common Fisheries Policy. I did not quote from it.

I noticed that.

I said then and I say now that the view Fianna Fáil had in mind at that time was to delay the common access policy which was in operation in Europe. They were afraid that if they mentioned fisheries it might delay our rush into the EEC, that it was only a hindrance and should be kept out of the way. This is my interpretation of our negotiations at that time.

That is water under the bridge; the Government here are changed and it is now up to us to try to rectify the mistakes made in our negotiations in the past and in our terms of accession. Were we not then in as good a position or in a better position to demand extra rights for our fishermen? I do not like talking of spilt milk; we must deal with the present position. The people in the two Departments directly concerned with our fishing associations have worked and are working, so to speak, day and night in Dublin and in Europe to give the best possible advice and support to the leader of the negotiating team, the Minister for Foreign Affairs. My view is that it is essential for our fishermen to get the widest possible exclusive band. I know of the ruthless overfishing of our waters even inside the 12-mile limit by foreign boats, boats of member states of the Community and boats from outside it. We know what happened in southern Ireland quite recently when we had this big Russian boat hauled into port by our Naval Service, to whom I offer my appreciation of their work. With 101 employees on that boat one can visualise the amount of fish it could take up if solely engaged in fishing. A few days before that we had a Bulgarian boat. How many other boats have we around our shores? Even if you were to concede that some of them are fishing outside our band, they are fishing within 12 miles of our coast. They are doing so this year; they did it last year and did it seven, eight and nine years ago. That position in our fishery waters did not come about today or yesterday.

It is quite evident to anybody with any reasonable knowledge of the fishing industry that as an island country we should get the widest possible exclusive band. I emphasise the term "exclusive" because once you give away quotas—if the system worked honestly so to speak it would be all right, but I am informed that it may not—you may be in difficulties. To get the widest possible band is the first task and it is a major one in view of the opposition of other Community members. That is the task assigned to the Minister for Foreign Affairs.

It has been suggested that we should take unilateral action like Iceland, Canada, Norway and other countries. The obvious answer is that we are now members of the EEC. Eighty-three per cent of the people said we should become members. I respect their decision which was the most decisive ever given in this country by the national electorate. At the same time it took away from us the right of unilateral action. It is the Government's stated policy that the Minister for Foreign Affairs must act within the Community. I do not think that either Government or Opposition Deputies think that we should wreck the Community. We are trying to get the best possible arrangement and agreement on fishery policy. It is only fair to say that the Minister for Foreign Affairs, who will be speaking for himself later in this debate, will do that but he must do it in negotiation with other members of the Community and he must not take unilateral action. To do so would be to go against the expressed view of the majority of our people.

The Government are pleased to have the support of the Opposition. They welcome everybody's support on this issue. This industry is being viewed with the concern it deserves at present. We know it is vital to get this wide coastal band. I should like to see the Minister returning with a 50-mile coastal band which would be exclusive, but as Deputy O'Kennedy knows we must negotiate with eight other countries. We became members of the Community for that purpose. I take the Opposition to task on this question because the home-work was not done on fisheries before we signed on the dotted line, before we accepted to continue as we were for a period of not more than ten years until alternative arrangements were made. The alternative arrangements implied were arrangements to depress the band we already had. Mention was made of bringing it down to three miles.

I have given the House the reasons for the amendment. I have stated the Department's policy. We welcome all the support we can get and the coverage this matter is getting in our newspapers. A heavy burden is being placed on the shoulders of the Minister for Foreign Affairs. Deputy Dr. FitzGerald has to meet eight other Ministers whose interests differ from ours. In view of the laxity of our approach to our accession negotiations he has to bear this burden. This amendment is justifiable in that it gives the Minister some power in the negotiations. If the House were to pass this motion in its raw state it would deprive the Minister of negotiation rights. We can all be sure that the Minister will do his best for us.

I should like to add my voice in protest to the manner in which the amendment has been circulated. I am at a loss to know the meaning of the amendment. Perhaps the Minister will be able to explain it to us. It seems that there is some notion on the part of the Government to forget the concept of a 50-mile exclusive limit. This is the only reading I can take from the amendment.

There was no necessity for the Parliamentary Secretary to attack our spokesman in the way he did. We are trying to strengthen the hand of the Minister in the negotiations. It is important that all the people, particularly the fishermen, should know where we stand in this matter. In his speech the Parliamentary Secretary has shown his ignorance of what took place at the negotiations on our entry into the EEC. He should remember that we were able to obtain a derogation clause at that time as a result of pressure from our representatives. This gave our fishermen ten years to develop the fisheries and gave us time to make our case for better conditions. We had no choice but to accept the common fisheries policy which was already in existence. The Minister himself has accepted this point.

That view is not held——

The Minister defended it during the campaign. We have always maintained that the common fisheries clause has been unfair. We have argued along these lines and will continue to do so. We realise the importance of the fishing industry to the economy, especially to the more backward areas where development is so necessary. We are in a unique position in that we are on the edge of the Atlantic and in a position to exploit the fisheries. From a weak base our fisheries have expanded considerably. We are now expanding and in a position to go further afield. This cannot take place unless we get the 50-mile limit. In the past our fisheries have not played a full part in our economy. The nation now realises how important this industry is. To give some recent figures, our catches for 1975 were 76,000 tons and were valued at £9 million. The export value of that catch was £14 million. That is a very important figure because in ten years we have increased the value of our catches tenfold. It shows that we are expanding.

Almost 12,000 people are employed in the fishery industry; about 7,000 full time. Investment by the State in the various sectors—boat building, processing and harbour development—while it is not what we would like it to be, has been considerable. If we do not gain the concessions we are looking for, this investment will have gone for nothing. An encouraging feature also is that the expansion has taken place in areas where employment is necessary, on the north-west coast, the west coast and south coast. It has taken place in areas where it would be very hard to establish any other type of industry to bring employment to the people. For instance, in County Donegal 15 per cent of the labour force there are employed in fisheries. That is significant and there is no reason why Mayo, Galway, Clare, Kerry and parts of Cork should not have a similar number employed in the fishery industry in the years to come if the opportunity to expand is given.

This is an area where the regional fund of the EEC could be used to good advantage. It would also help to create employment and stem emigration from poorer areas along our coast. To exploit our fisheries to a greater extent it is necessary that we should have larger fleets, that we should have better processing and handling facilities, have a proper handling structure, improve our harbours, provide adequate protection and improve research and educational facilities. In this regard one would imagine that in our EEC context we would be entitled to assistance as a developing nation from the various funds the Community have available for under-developed areas. At present the policy in relation to fisheries, if one exists, seems to be geared towards restricting operations in the member states. This policy works against a developing industry like ours. For example, with the FEOGA grants they have decided that boats over 80 foot in size will not qualify for such grants. That is a clear indication that the EEC are set against any further expansion in the fishing industry, something which is detrimental to our aims and what we should be doing with this vital industry.

Those concerned about fisheries are aware that conservation is important and if we are to have any proper conservation we must have complete control of our own fisheries. We all know that the bays of other member states have been cleaned out with the result that there is no fish there at present. Those states are acting as pirates in trying to clean out our stocks. If we do not get a 50-mile limit and are not left in a position where we can conserve these stocks, we will have to forget about any future expansion and any further expenditure in this area. It has been argued that we would not be in a position to police or protect a 50-mile fishing limit. There are many ways we can look at this and, having had the experience of studying the situation in Iceland, I see no reason why we should not be in a position to police our waters effectively. We have been told that it would cost £60 million to provide the necessary boats and planes to carry out this protection, but I should like to state that in Iceland they have four patrol boats, one plane and one helicopter.

As Deputy O'Kennedy stated, the boats they use for the protection service are not warships or as good as our boats. However, they proved quite effective in the recent Cod War and in policing the 200-mile limit which the Icelandic fishermen now enjoy. They have an effective way of dealing with all nations fishing in the vicinity of their country. By international agreement they have listed the boats from other states likely to be fishing in their waters. In the case of Great Britain they have listed the names of the boats, the tonnage and registration. At given times any one of these boats, should they decide to fish near Iceland, must give their bearings to support ships who in turn communicate with the Icelandic coast guard service. In this way the Icelandic authorities know the bearings of each boat and can, therefore, ensure that these boats keep to the international agreement and will not go into the Icelandic zones. The position is that, if one of the trawlers listed breaks an agreement, it has to leave the waters and they lose their licence. They are not allowed to come back.

During our visit we went to the control room where this operation was carried out. Listed on a chart in front of us we could see the number of boats fishing in specific areas on that day. The authorities were very proud to be able to tell us that they had caught a German trawler which had broken the agreement and they did not even bother to escort it into port or arrest it. All they did was to inform the German authorities and the trawler lost its licence and in future will have no right to fish in the vicinity of Iceland. It would be quite easy for us in a 50-miles context to have a similar type of agreement with the EEC member states. This way we would find it fairly easy to police our fishing areas because it would be only necessary for our planes to make occasional trips to the coast to spot infringements. If we followed the example of Iceland this operation could be carried out very easily and effectively.

We in this House have been trying to impress on the Parliamentary Secretary and on the Minister for Foreign Affairs the need to prepare for the day we are now reaching. We realised how difficult negotiations would prove and asked the Ministers concerned by way of parliamentary questions to make provision so that they would be prepared for the 50-mile fishing zones. Earlier this year I asked the following question:

...asked the Minister for Defence if he will consider setting up a coastguard service to protect this country's fishing stocks.

The reply was:

It is not proposed to change the existing arrangements under which fishery protection was carried out by the Naval Service.

On 25th May, 1976, I put down two parliamentary questions to the Minister for Defence as follows:

...asked the Minister for Defence the strength of the helicopter service in Ireland; and if he will consider having a number of helicopters permanently engaged in protecting Irish fishing grounds.

The second was:

... asked the Minister for Defence the plans, if any, his Department have to improve the existing fishery protection service.

The second paragraph of the reply said that a fishing vessel was being constructed and would be delivered in November, 1977. It went on:

There are eight helicopters in the Air Corps. They will, as heretofore, carry out "sweeps" of particular areas from time to time at the request of the Naval Service, but it would not be feasible to have any of them permanently engaged on fishery protection duties.

It is clear that in this matter of protection of our fisheries we were trying to forewarn the Minister and to prepare for the 50-mile limit. On the 26th May, 1976, I put down a parliamentary question to the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries as follows:

... asked the Minister for Agriculture and Fisheries if he will introduce legislation to enable the courts to increase substantially the penalties for fishing by foreign trawlers in Irish territorial waters.

The reply stated:

An increase in the penalties for illegal fishing by foreign nationals within our exclusive fishery limits is one of a number of proposals for amending our sea fisheries legislation which I am considering at present.

To date we have not got any new legislation and the position is that fines on foreign trawlers are completely inadequate and they can fish inside our territorial waters at will. In the negotiations for extending our limits we should take a look at present base lines. At the moment the base lines follow the contour of the coast. This means that with the present 12-mile limit, and indeed six miles in many instances, foreign trawlers can come very far into some of our bays; for instance, they can come in practically midway into Donegal Bay. I hope the Minister for Foreign Affairs in the negotiations which are going on at the moment will consider the possibility of using different base lines and in this way he would be providing a far wider fishing area for our fishermen.

There has been on the Order Paper for quite a considerable time a motion in my name and in the name of Deputy Molloy about this very important matter. I believe this is a very important aspect of these negotiations and we should not lose sight of it in the present situation.

Iceland have used this type of base line, one which goes from the outer points and the contour of the coast has not been followed. This is a big advantage and would be of tremendous benefit in our case as well.

Debate adjourned.
The Dáil adjourned at 8.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 27th October, 1976.
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