asked the Minister for Defence if any decision has yet been made to purchase Timoney APCs.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Timoney APCs.
10.
A decision has not yet been reached regarding the purchase of armoured personnel carriers for the Defence Forces in the present financial year.
Can the Minister say for how long the question of the purchase of these vehicles has been under consideration?
The Deputy knows that this is a matter in respect of which a hasty decision ought not be reached. Consequently the question is still under consideration.
I could comment on the question of a hasty decision if the Minister would indicate for how long the matter has been under consideration.
I agree that it has been under consideration for some time but no decision has been reached yet in respect of it.
Would the Minister agree that this question has been under consideration for at least three years?
The Deputy is aware, as he will recall very well from his speech in this House in December last, that I have been in the Department for only three months.
Even the Minister would not take three months to read the file.
I shall have this matter examined further with a view to ascertaining the possibility of reaching a decision soon.
In the course of his examination would the Minister bear in mind that these army vehicles are now under construction for the Belgian army?
I am aware of that.
We were told at school that Belgium was the cockpit of Europe. Perhaps it still is. However, if these vehicles are fit for the Belgian army, might one not conclude that they would be fit, also, for the Irish Army especially when they are Irish designed and Irish made?
I am sure the Deputy is aware that in 1972 arrangements were made with Dr. Timoney for the production of three armed personnel carriers for the Department of Defence at an estimated cost of £90,000. Of the three vehicles produced, the first was regarded as being uneconomic and, consequently, it was decided to use it for spare parts for the other two. The second proved to be free of major trouble while the third proved to be suitable. The cost amounted to approximately £179,000 plus incidental expenses by way of duty and VAT. I am aware also that Dr. Timoney has entered into a joint venture for the provision of these armed cars for Belgium.
Can the Minister say what will be the cost to the Belgian army of the vehicles being manufactured for them?
I am not in a position to know the nature of whatever negotiations have taken place between Dr. Timoney and the Belgian authorities. In these circumstances I have no knowledge of the cost involved.
Has the Minister any idea of what the cost would be in so far as the Irish Army is concerned?
I can only remind the Deputy that such costs are increasing continually.
Is the Minister aware that the failure of the Irish authorities to place an order for the purchase of one of these APCs produced by Dr. Timoney's company prejudiced seriously and was in danger of defeating the possibility of obtaining this very prestigious export order for Belgium?
We must not reach a hasty decision in order to facilitate an export order for Dr. Timoney. I assure the Deputy that I will have the matter examined further. If he cares to table a question in this regard after the Easter recess I shall give him the up-to-date information.
Obviously, the Belgians had no problem about reaching this so-called hasty decision.
I shall allow one final brief question.
Would the Minister not agree that the exhaustive tests carried out on the last personnel carrier show that it has acquitted itself excellently on all types of terrain and even in an amphibious fashion and that it has proved to be trouble free for up to 10,000 miles? Does he not think that what is suitable for the Belgian authorities should have appealed to the Government and that they should have decided to give employment at home and provide the Army with a cheaper carrier than any imported carrier? How does one construe silence in that case?
I have already assured the Leader of the Opposition, and I am including the Deputy, and I trust they will accept my assurance, that if a question is put down to me after the Easter recess I will give further information should it be available. I want to repeat that no decision has been made.
We have dwelt long enough on this question.
I do not know how further information can be available after three weeks when it has not become available after three years.
We will not stand idly by.