Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 5 May 1977

Vol. 299 No. 3

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - University Fees.

10.

asked the Minister for Education the steps he is taking to relieve university students of the recently announced large increase in fees.

The level of fees charged to their students is a matter for the universities concerned. In the case of students to whom higher education grants are paid, the fee element in their grants is adjusted in accordance with increases in fees.

Would the Minister not agree that, first of all, there are very many more non-grant holders than grant holders? My question asked him what he is doing to alleviate them.

As I said in my reply, the level of fees charged to their students is a matter for the universities concerned. If I were to interfere with the universities at all I would be very quickly told to keep my hands off them.

Does the Minister not see it as his duty to make an allocation of money available to the university colleges concerned so that they will not have to charge 16 per cent extra on their fees?

The universities concerned already get very generous allocations of money.

This is a very important matter about which nearly all the Deputies in the House have had correspondence. In view of the fact that the eligibility limit for third level grants has remained static over a period when there has been 100 per cent inflation—I am not exaggerating —would the Minister not agree that a large number of students, of relatively badly off parents, who attend the universities are now being charged 16 per cent extra? Would he not agree that this calls for an extra allocation of money from the Department's funds for third level students?

The Deputy will appreciate that the allocation of funds for the universities for the current year has already been decided and that the 1978 allocation has not yet been decided. All those factors will be taken into account in arriving at the amount of money to be given to the universities. I would point out that the fees in universities in Ireland are roughly, at their very highest, only 50 per cent of what they are in the North of Ireland and England.

I agree on that but would the Minister not agree that eligibility limits do not exist in Britain and Northern Ireland and that there is a far more liberal grant system in those areas?

Finally, would the Minister like to say when he will increase the level of the grants in view of the fact that he has told us that since September last a fundamental review of the whole grants and eligibility limits position has been under way?

As the Deputy pointed out to me in an earlier supplementary, the question deals with fees and not with grants. However, I do not mind saying that the review to which he refers is almost completed and I hope to be in a position to make an announcement in the next few weeks.

Would the Minister not agree that my question is totally relevant in that there is a mass of the student body who should be in receipt of grants but who are not receiving them and who, consequently, are suffering from the increase in fees? For example, would the Minister not agree that a messenger from the Department of Education having one eligible child, fully qualified academically, could not avail of a grant and would be paying a fee 16 per cent greater this year than last year? In such circumstances is there not an obligation on the Minister to increase the allocation to the universities in order to alleviate the hardship on such people?

The universities can obtain funds only from two sources— either from the Government or by way of fees. Because the grants to universities are so high, the fees are kept at what, by comparison with other countries, is a fairly reasonable level. If we were to increase the grants, we would be channelling more money to a certain section of the community but this might necessitate cutting down on the grants to universities.

Would the Minister not face up——

I have given the Deputy a lot of latitude on this question. We must have finality on it.

Perhaps the Chair would allow me a final supplementary. Would the Minister not face up to the basic question of university fees falling heavily on people who cannot afford them and who, had the eligibility level been raised, would be enjoying grants? I have no sympathy for those people who have lots of money but I am concerned with this other section and I am asking the Minister whether he would be prepared to consider some relief in this area?

In effect, the Deputy is making a case for very much increased fees for a smaller number of students.

That is not so.

We cannot debate this matter now. I am calling the next question.

Thank you for your courtesy and patience but there is a final question I would like to put to the Minister. Is he not convinced that people whose means are relatively slim are putting their children through university at great sacrifice because of the eligibility limit situation? Is this not an area which requires subvention?

I should very much like to see lower fees being paid by many more students but there are practical consideration of which the Deputy is well aware.

Top
Share