Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 12 May 1977

Vol. 299 No. 6

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Teacher/Pupil Ratio.

2.

Mr. MacSharry

asked the Minister for Education the pupil/teacher ratio in each of the primary schools in Sligo town and county and County Leitrim for the school years 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976 and 1977.

Mr. P. Barry

The information requested by the Deputy is set out in the form of a tabular statement which with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I will have circulated with the Official Report. Following is the statement:

County Sligo

30/9/73—30/9/76

Roll Number	Location	1973/74	1974/75	1975/76	1976/77
2013	Ballintogher	30	30	33	30
3924	Owenbeg	26	20	18	17
4487	Achonry	28	25	25	24
4802	Cloonacool	28	26	25	24
*8206	Sligo	35	33	35	35
9691	Killeenduff	24	21	22	23
10422	Coolavin	30	31	Closed31/1/75	—
10473	Calry	28	29	27	27
10734	Knocknarea	24	27	29	30
11733	Cloonagh	13	11	Closed30/6/75	—
11769	Ballisodare	18	15	15	Closed30/9/75
11779	Collooney	30	29	31	Closed30/9/75
12008	Quigabar	18	Closed31/5/74	—	—
12066	Curry	35	32	Closed30/6/75	—
12140	Culleens	28	27	28	28
12166	Tubbercurry	11	11	8	11
12171	Corballa	27	26	24	25
12308	Bunninadden	20	19	21	19
12537	Gurteen	28	25	23	24
12752	Dunally	32	34	36	39
12767	Cloonloo	18	18	17	20
13196	Riverstown	30	30	29	38
*13240	Sligo	32	31	33	34
13242	Castlerock	18	18	16	16
13765	Bunnacranagh	15	14	Closed30/6/75	—
13778	Highwood	13	12	13	Closed17/3/76
13831	Moylough	25	24	25	24
13940	Enniscrone	37	31	31	32
13944	Kilmactigue	26	24	25	26
13967	Easky	21	21	21	21
14051	Stokane	24	27	25	31
14192	St. James Well	17	16	15	13
14304	Banada	15	13	17	19
*14346	Sligo	41	37	41	40
14441	Kilmacowen	18	18	16	18
14589	Clooncurry	8	8	Closed31/1/75	—
14636	Carraroe	35	38	36	35
15004	Strandhill	29	31	32	37
15217	Riverstown	33	33	32	32
15220	Carrowreagh	26	21	21	22
15337	Castlegal	26	28	26	24
15342	Keash	28	31	31	30
15378	Coolaney	32	28	28	29
15384	Coolaney	16	19	17	Closed30/9/75
15431	Killaville	27	31	30	31
15496	Leaffoney	6	6	5	5
15514	Tubbercurry	25	19	19	33
15571	Kilglass	24	21	23	22
15663	Lugnagal	12	19	16	Closed9/5/76
16008	Tubbercurry	32	34	33	34
16044	Kilross	15	14	13	13
16136	Cliffoney	26	27	25	22
16260	Ballymote	23	25	30	31
16363	Gleneaskey	20	19	14	15
16414	Ballymote	34	31	28	28
16415	Ballymote	37	39	27	27
16492	Rathlee	30	27	27	26
*16580	Sligo	24	32	36	36
16781	Coolbock	24	23	23	25
16793	Collooney	35	30	26	30
16801	Ballindoon	12	24	21	21
16927	Kilmactrammy	19	18	18	22
17021	Ballymeelin	33	25	26	26
17023	Derrylihan	15	15	14	13
17034	Rathcormack	26	28	34	Closed9/5/76
*17277	Sligo	25	30	28	26
*17278	Sligo	29	28	25	Closed1/1/76
17283	Geevagh	25	25	22	21
17291	Carney	16	19	21	Closed9/5/76
*17467	Sligo	41	35	37	36
17591	Bloomfield	14	14	13	14
17599	Ballinlig	23	22	25	23
17641	Rosses Point	37	31	33	36
17718	Collooney	37	27	26	26
17725	Carn	16	19	17	17
17774	Ballinacarrow	25	26	28	28
17838	Ballisodare	27	27	26	26
17861	Banada	23	29	24	31
*17916	Sligo	30	30	Closed30/6/75	—
17967	Mullaghroe	33	31	31	33
18017	Upper Arigna	8	10	7	7
18029	Banada	15	19	16	18
18053	Sooey	21	21	21	19
18298	Culfadda	32	36	38	27
18334	Knocknarea	18	18	18	18
18366	Gleniffe	21	22	17	17
18436	Glen	30	28	28	26
18495	Dromore	28	25	23	21
18543	Clohogue	29	27	26	25
18575	Grange	29	33	39	32
18580	Kilrusheiter	20	17	16	19
18592	Temple Terrace	23	23	18	20
18711	Annaghmore	21	22	17	13
18715	High Park	21	19	17	14
*18789	Sligo	33	31	30	31
*18979	Sligo	39	35	29	31
19206	Sligo
†19340	Sligo
19389	Curry	—	op 1/7/75	31	30
19392	Monasteraden	—	op 31/1/75	23	25
19408	Rathcormack	—	—	op 10/5/76	31
19416	Collooney	—	—	op 30/9/75	24

*Sligo town schools

†Special schools—not considered relevant

County Leitrim

30/9/73—30/9/76.

Roll Number	Location	1973/74	1974/75	1975/76	1976/77
1125	Leitrim	27	30	31	29
5161	Drumkeerin	19	20	17	Closed7/9/76
8390	Manorhamilton	24	24	27	27
8673	Mohill	19	19	19	19
9353	Newtowngore	23	25	20	22
10765	Drumbibe	22	Closed15/2/74	—	—
10894	Dargoon	20	15	15	13
12496	Cloonmorris	29	30	24	23
12525	Drumkeelanmore	18	17	Closed30/6/75	—
12675	Cloonturk	18	15	15	13
12735	Conderay	16	14	Closed10/11/74	—
12805	Ahanlish	19	19	18	22
12872	Drumshanbo	37	38	Closed10/11/74	—
13010	Kilmore	16	20	22	Closed7/9/76
13039	Bredagh	16	16	13	15
13075	Finiskill	15	13	Closed30/6/75	—
13122	Hollymount	18	17	16	17
13164	Cormongan	22	22	Closed10/11/74	—
13614	Ballinamore	31	36	31	31
13656	Annaduff	28	31	28	28
13697	Liscarbin	15	14	13	13
13770	Mohil	30	31	34	30
13849	Keshcarrigan	25	20	21	20
13851	Gortahose	15	13	13	20
13874	Urbal	5	6	Closed30/6/75	—
13895	Gortermone	11	Closed1/9/74	—	—
13908	Ballaghameehan	27	25	16	15
14339	Corduff	22	22	23	23
14513	Slievenakilla	15	15	16	19
14670	Aughagrania	12	23	Closed10/11/74	—
14779	Lisduff	15	14	16	19
14898	Drumeela	39	25	27	22
15029	Drumbreanlis	23	Closed2/9/74	—	—
15116	Ardvarney	28	22	21	32
15194	Fenagh	30	29	31	28
15339	Cartron	30	Closed28/6/74	—	—
15356	Aughacashel	12	Closed1/7/74	—	—
15382	Drumlease	24	32	32	35
15433	Glenaniffe	23	18	18	19
15960	Gortletteragh	29	28	30	29
16126	Kilmore	21	25	26	27
16130	Killenumery	21	25	25	26
16244	Derrinkehir	16	Closed15/2/74	—	—
16474	Carrigallen	22	28	28	30
16537	Moneenatieve	18	14	8	Closed7/9/76
16932	Aughawillian	33	13	11	10
16951	Creevelea	13	26	27	28
17125	Diffreen	29	28	28	27
17132	Drumnamore	22	22	21	18
17142	Tullaghan	27	29	26	34
17143	Kinlough	34	33	35	32
17206	Largy	31	29	25	26
17233	Manorhamilton	25	32	32	27
17234	Manorhamilton	30	32	Closed2/2/75	—
17558	Rossan	22	21	21	19
17626	Mohill	22	23	29	19
17906	Carrick-on-Shannon	36	36	37	31
18091	Shannon-View	16	14	15	11
18139	Tarmon	15	13	13	11
18181	Cornagee	29	24	27	22
18329	Lecaun	21	29	29	25
18354	Beaghmore	14	Closed3/9/74	—	—
18492	Kilragross	16	15	18	17
18589	Kiltyclogher	25	25	21	29
18656	Ballinamore	27	28	30	32
18680	Adoon	13	11	21	Closed30/1/76
18741	Cloone	32	31	30	24
18822	Carrick-on-Shannon	39	33	33	31
19255	Glenfarne	29	31	27	27
*19360	Drumkeerin	—	—	—	24
†19365	Carrick-on-Shannon	—	20	27	27
‡19423	Drumshanbo	—	—	34	37

*19360 Opened 7/9/76.

†19365 Opened 18/2/74.

‡19423 Opened 10/11/74.

3.

Mr. MacSharry

asked the Minister for Education the pupil/teacher ratio in each of the post-primary schools in Sligo town and county and County Leitrim for the school years 1973, 1974, 1975, 1976 and 1977.

Mr. P. Barry

The information requested by the Deputy in the case of the comprehensive school, Manor-hamilton, is as follows: 1973-74 15, 1974-75 16, 1975-76 14, 1976-77 14.

In the case of vocational schools it is not possible to give the information because teachers are appointed for the vocational education committee area concerned and are not specifically assigned to individual schools.

In the case of secondary schools the total staff employed is a matter for the individual school manager, the Department's concern being with the number of teachers who are paid incremental salary. It would not, accordingly, be in accordance with normal practice to furnish details in regard to individual schools.

Mr. MacSharry

Is the Minister saying that this kind of information, for all the discussion that goes on about pupil/teacher ratio is not available in his Department?

Mr. P. Barry

We have it in the comprehensive schools but they are directly under the Department. In the case of the vocational school I cannot say whether it is assigned to any one particular school because teachers are all employed by the VEC in the area. In the case of secondary schools I cannot give information about individual schools. It has not been the practice to reveal this information because they are private schools.

Mr. MacSharry

When the question is asked the information should be given on such an important matter.

Mr. P. Barry

It is a long-standing custom in this regard, not initiated by me, that this information is not given.

Mr. MacSharry

How then can the Minister state that there is a drop in the pupil/teacher ratio?

Mr. P. Barry

I do not see how one follows on the other.

Mr. MacSharry

Surely the Minister can give this information.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is leading to argument.

Mr. P. Barry

I would say that on the basis of total teachers employed and total number of pupils under them.

Mr. MacSharry

That is the kind of information I would be looking for.

Mr. P. Barry

The Deputy wanted it for vocational schools and secondary schools. It is not the custom to give it for secondary schools.

Mr. MacSharry

Is it not on the basis of pupils attending vocational schools or secondary schools that the Minister allows the schools to employ additional staff?

Mr. P. Barry

Yes, but the Deputy asked me in the case of each secondary school and we do not give that information.

Mr. MacSharry

Why?

Mr. P. Barry

Because in theory they are private schools and I do not give information about private schools.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are having repetition.

Mr. MacSharry

There has been no drop, and the Minister is trying to cover up.

Mr. P. Barry

This has been going on for years.

Mr. Wilson

Would it not be possible in the case of a specific area like that to obtain from the schools concerned permission to take up these figures to the House? I am quite sure that some schools would be willing to give that information because it would be an argument in their favour. Would the Minister ignore precedent and change the format of an answer like that for them?

Mr. P. Barry

I do not think so, because even though one area might be unwilling to have this information revealed, the fact that it was revealed in that area would bring pressure to bear on other areas. One area could be willing to do it and we would not have uniformity for all areas.

Mr. Wilson

Would the Minister agree that, because of protests made at teachers' conferences and by parents associations about the pupil/ teacher ratio, it would be in the interests of the school to reveal the pupil/teacher ratio?

Mr. P. Barry

The pupil/teacher ratio in any individual school is very easily made up by the people in that school.