Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 17 May 1977

Vol. 299 No. 7

Finance Bill, 1977: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The Minister for Finance and his colleagues for some time now have been endeavouring to persuade us all that the economic situation is improving. Optimistic reports, concessions, new policies, favourable announcements, all these are the order of the day. A totally unfounded claim that we have come out of the recession better than most countries is being constantly reiterated. This sudden ability to see an improvement in what up to now has been regarded universally as a catastrophic situation is, of course, part of a comprehensive Government campaign to set a favourable scene for the general election. It is absolutely fraudulent and in no way related to the realities of our economic situation.

Although it is not easy to do so, we must try in this debate on this Finance Bill to clear away this fog of deception and look at what is really happening throughout the economy. The truth is that there is no real improvement in the long term economic outlook. In fact, all the evidence available to us points to a depressing and discouraging future with serious social and economic problems building up. The figures which are being fastened upon with such pathetic eagerness by Ministers are of a minor, marginal nature. In fact, the changes they are referring to do no more than emphasise the depths of the depression. Because the level of economic activity has fallen so low, some upward movement of this sort was inevitable through the normal swing of the pendulum. It is no more than that.

Far from the economy being broadened and strengthened to cope with the increasing demands which will be made upon it in future, its ability to cope with those demands has, in fact, been very seriously impaired. It is particularly depressing to note that, in this sort of situation, the Labour Party's only contribution is to propose more bureaucracy, another great source of wasteful public expenditure, a State development board if you do not mind. It is surely indicative of the quality of the economic debate which apparently goes on within the Coalition that they should actually be arguing at this stage about such an out-of-date second-hand notion.

That is the sort of thing economic theorists were promoting in Britain after the war. As Britain went further and further downhill, more and more of these paper panaceas were brought forward: national enterprise boards, development corporations, every conceiveable type of useless bureacratic monstrosity they could think up. Is our situation not bad enough? Is there not enough wasteful expenditure of public money already? Does the sparkling performance of our existing State monopolies inspire anyone to believe we really need another one, a big brother which will dwarf all the others in the extent of its losses and its inefficiency?

Last week the Economic and Social Research Institute published a study on unemployment by R. Geary and M. Dempsey. That study confirms in a most dramatic fashion many of the things some of us have been preaching for well over two years now. The general conclusion of Geary and Dempsey is that in the years to 1980 our unemployment will reach catastrophic proportions unless the Government make a sustained and direct attack on this over-riding social and economic problem. They point also to the possibility of the emergence of a sub-proletariat of unemployed people virtually alienated from the economic system and suggest that this could give rise to heightened social and political tensions within the community.

I said exactly the same thing in a luncheon address to the Chartered Accountants as long ago as November, 1975. In that address I said:

At current trends and if nothing intervenes it is probable that the number of persons unemployed by 1979 will be 200,000. As a high proportion of this number will be young, active and with a high level of education and skills a corresponding rise in the level of social tension is inevitable.

Geary and Dempsey go on to suggest that the problem of unemployment should be tackled by a special works programme whose main objective would not be economic but to put people to work, and that 3 per cent of GNP be channelled into this works programme. They go on to point out that 3 per cent of GNP in 1975 would have been £105 million. This is exactly in line with what we have been proposing. I personally suggested well over a year ago that £100 million should be diverted from the public capital programme into a jobs for jobs' sake programme.

The truth is that, while the swing of the pendulum to which I have referred will bring temporary improvement in the level of economic activity the underlying long term problem remains. Unless we are to slip further and further behind our European partners in the Community, put up with second-rate status, and accept high levels of unemployment, inadequate health, welfare and educational services, a new radical far-reaching approach to economic management must now be undertaken.

For some time now I have been asking for a review of our general economic development strategy. In my view, not alone must we have a vastly increased national investment programme, but the areas into which that investment is being channelled at present must be reviewed. For over a decade now we have been investing increasing amounts of scarce capital in establishing sophisticated modern industries with superb technology, but industries which provide relatively little employment. This has been done both by re-equipping existing domestic plant and by importing new industrial capacity from abroad. This new structure of technologically advanced industry which we are providing through the present strategy will undoubtedly serve the traditional economic ends in relation to increasing gross national product and contribute to our balance of payments situation. I do not think that alone can be accepted as sufficient any longer.

A recent report issued by the Irish Industrial Development Authority announced, with perhaps justifiable pride, that since 1968 that authority made available to existing Irish firms a total of £75 million by way of grant to enable them to re-equip and modernise. The total expenditure involved in that re-equipment and modernisation programme by the firms concerned amounted to £319.4 million. So the total sum of grants of £75 million generated a total of £319.4 million of expenditure. The investment of that amount of over £300 million certainly increased greatly productivity, efficiency and competitiveness in the industries concerned, but it was also responsible actually for reducing the number of persons employed in those industries. So when the programme had been completed we had a situation which involved the expenditure of approximately £320 million of capital with fewer jobs in those industries than before the programme had been commenced. I believe, therefore, that what we have been doing is investing heavily in efficient technology but not in employment.

I have for some time been convinced that the time has come to make a major change in our investment strategy and to concentrate more on the intensive development of our natural resources rather than on the importation of this expensive technology. Apart from anything else the development of these natural resources will certainly be more labour than capital intensive and an investment programme must contribute to a much greater extent to solving our employment problem. Our agriculture, our sea fisheries, our tourist potential, forestry, mineral deposits are still comparatively underdeveloped. I believe that if we develop them in an intelligent and rational manner they are capable of providing our rising population with a satisfactory standard of living and of absorbing our workforce in a way that putting more and more scarce capital into mere industrial productivity can never do.

Another vital necessity for economic growth is a reduction in the rate of inflation. In 1976 the rate of inflation in this country was 18 per cent and the forecast for this year is 14 per cent. The only reason that this decline from 18 per cent to 14 per cent is anticipated this year is because the Government themselves have not this year added directly to inflation by the imposition of taxes as they did last year. This negative one of not positively adding to the rate of inflation is the Government's only contribution to the problem of inflation this year. We cannot hope for real economic progress until the rate of inflation is brought down to 4 per cent or 5 per cent. There is general agreement about that. Nevertheless, in spite of the fact that most competent observers would agree that we cannot really start to achieve development and progress until the rate of inflation is 4 per cent or 5 per cent, the Government, Ministers and friendly commentators are trying to persuade us that all is well, though on their own admission the rate of inflation this year will be 13 per cent or 14 per cent.

It is interesting to note that there are two different theories about inflation and its causes. The standard interpretation, the standard formula which is steadfastly adhered to by the economic establishment in this country, is that inflation is caused mainly by income increases and can only be defeated and economic salvation achieved by imposing and maintaining a stern policy of income restraint. That is the economic dogma, the credo, which has been preached for many years by what I describe as the economic establishment in this country: that the cause of inflation is principally income increases and therefore the way to get inflation under control is by controlling incomes and keeping them down.

It is no harm to realise that there is another theory. That theory suggests that this approach by our economic establishment is all nonsense, that incomes rise only because the recipients of those incomes have to continue demanding increases to keep up with rising prices and to try to maintain their standard of living and that, in fact, income increases as such are a result and not a cause of inflation. Whichever of these two analyses is correct, there is no doubt, in my view, that in our circumstances the only certain way to defeat inflation and to restore some semblance of a stable relationship between wages and prices is by increased productivity. The real answer to our economic problem is increased productivity throughout the economy at all levels—people working more effectively to produce better goods and services and thereby people able to earn a great deal more to improve their standard of living without contributing to shoving up the level of inflation. That is how the breakthrough must sooner or later be achieved. Productivity is the key, and the increase in productivity we need can be achieved only by stimulating enterprise and initiative and restoring the incentive to earn. That is where I believe this Government have failed, more definitely and more clearly, than in any other area. The working population have become tired and disspirited and demoralised because the Coalition Government—and the Minister for Finance in particular—have killed initiative. They have made individual effort unrewarding and, indeed, unpopular.

Deputy Ryan has seen his role as Minister for Finance not as a Minister for economic development but almost exclusively as a Minister for taxation. All his energies and the energies of his Department and the Revenue Commissioners have been devoted to expanding, refining and developing the taxation system. That is the objective he has set and it is to that end that he has devoted his energy in his period of office to date. He has concentrated on extracting more and more from the existing level of national income rather than endeavouring to procure an increase in the level itself.

The way to procure that increase in the level of national income, the way to stimulate economic growth, to restore enterprise and to procure the increase in effort and productivity we need is to effect a major reduction in the tax level on personal earned income. Such a reduction would provide the greatest possible incentive to increased productivity. It would galvanise the economy and in a very short time raise it to new and unprecedented levels of activity. Income tax is calculated to bring in around £500 million in this financial year. To reduce by half the amount of income tax paid by individuals on their earned income would probably cost something in the region of £200 million. That amount, however, would very soon be made up from increased revenue right across the board arising from the entirely new level of economic activity which would be generated. It would be justifiable, therefore, to run a budget deficit to whatever extent would be necessary to meet it. That deficit need not necessarily be of significant proportions because the way the Exchequer returns are running at present it should not be an insuperable task to accommodate this amount within the existing limits. In that connection it should be recalled, for instance, that the outcome of last year's budget was £127 million better than had been projected.

Those who talk about the dole and allege that people do not want to work because it is more advantageous to draw unemployment and other benefits misinterpret the situation. Our levels of welfare benefits are not so wildly generous that they would give rise to that sort of situation except in so far as a very small minority would be concerned. The real problem is the level of tax, the excessive amounts taken from wages and salaries under PAYE. That is what has killed initiative, has removed from ordinary men and women the motivation to work more efficiently for clearly identifiable rewards. From my observation I am convinced that, at this time in our circumstances, the high level of personal taxation is the greatest single factor inhibiting economic growth and that a reduction in its level would have dramatic results throughout our economy. Our situation, in its long term prospects, is so discouraging that some major and daring initiative of this kind must be attempted. Of the 24 countries in the OECD, in so far as living standards and the general level of economic development are concerned, we are fifth from the bottom of the league. At our present rate of economic development, we will remain there.

The Minister for Industry and Commerce and some of his colleagues recently have taken to stating that we have come out of the recession in a much better state than most other countries. It is only necessary to look at the place we occupy in the OECD table of economic and social statistics to realise how meaningless, irrelevant and fraudulent are statements of that sort.

I want to suggest also that the Government's handling of the introduction of farmer taxation has been particularly inept. They have allowed, and have actually encouraged, this issue to generate a new and sharpened antagonism between our urban and rural communities, between the farmers and the trade unions. This is an unhealthy and harmful sort of controversy that must, in the best interests of the community as a whole, be defused as quickly as possible. The best way to counteract that unhealthy development—which has serious long-term implications for our community and for our prospects of economic development—is to re-state what are the facts of our economic life. In our circumstances a growing, expanding agricultural industry is essential as a basis for sound, long-term, economic development. Every urban dweller, industrial worker and salaried worker has just as real an interest in the development of our farming industry and of increasing our agricultural output as has any farmer. Anything that acts as a disincentive to increased agricultural output is detrimental to our economic development in general and to the ultimate best interests of all members of our community, whether they live in towns or in the country. It is terribly important that that basic message be as widely understood as possible, that we get away from the attempt which has been made to give one section of the community the impression that they can gain at the expense of the other.

Expansion and development of our agricultural industry are essential to sound economic development. That fact should have been a major consideration in deciding on the system of farmer taxation which was to be introduced. The depressing truth is that agricultural output is not increasing. In money terms farm income has increased during the last two years but net agricultural output has fallen; there was a fall of 10 per cent in the volume of net agricultural output in 1976 and a marginal increase of 1½ per cent only is forecast for 1977. Therefore, over this two-year period there will be a substantial increase in the volume of net agricultural output. What is happening is that because of the operation of the common agricultural policy of the EEC our farmers are being paid more for the same output. Of course this means that some farmers, in the short-term, and from the point of view of income only, are doing well but Irish agriculture, as an industry, is not expanding or developing in the way that our general economic development requires that it should. It is terribly important that that fundamental fact be understood by everybody concerned, that Irish agriculture, as an industry, is not developing or growing; in fact it is declining.

It is my view—and I think that of most observers—that Irish agriculture is still capable of enormous expansion and of supplying the raw material needs of a growing food processing industry. It is capable of providing greatly increased employment on and off the farm. One of our major economic objectives must be to secure that expansion, making us one of the leading producers in the world of quality processed foods. Doctor John J. O'Connell of the Department of Applied Agricultural Economics at UCD, however, has shown in a recent report that neither agriculture nor the food processing industry has capitalised on the improved market access our EEC entry afforded us in the way that they might have done. Therefore, because of this unsatisfactory situation, it was clearly necessary—in the interests of general economic development and not just in the interests of farmers—that the system of farmer taxation which was being introduced would ensure that farmers would still have every incentive to increase agricultural output in volume as well as in value terms.

Agriculture is a long-term industry. Farm development and production must be planned over a four or five year period at least. For that reason it is essential that the taxation provisions applicable to farming be settled for a reasonable number of years ahead. Furthermore, two or three years' advance notice should be given of any significant changes in those provisions. Those are the considerations which have determined Fianna Fáil policy on farmer taxation. We believe that in order to provide the necessary incentive for increased production and output, the notional system must be retained permanently, that all wages, contractors' costs, depreciation and interest should be allowed as a deduction, with the amount being paid in local rates being credited against the amount of tax payable by the farmer. In our view that system will enable the farming community to contribute in a fair way to the overall cost of running the country while, at the same time, ensuring that the individual farmer has every possible incentive to increase his production.

The bloodstock industry provides us with a classic illustration of an industry which has become an accidental casualty of the tax system. When the Minister introduced the wealth tax he did not intend to destroy the bloodstock industry, and I want to acknowledge that, but in the event that is exactly what he has done. It must be admitted that the Minister, in bringing in this new series of capital taxes, endeavoured to provide for the development of the bloodstock industry because it was a valuable industry. In this country at that time we were well on the way to becoming the world's leading producer of bloodstock. Now, unfortunately, the effect of the introduction of the wealth tax has been to completely sabotage that great industry and to completely reverse that improving, growing trend which was evident in the industry before the introduction of this tax. As I say, the Minister made certain provisions which, in his view were sufficient and which I think he still maintains should be sufficient to protect the bloodstock industry, but the facts are there to contradict him. Over the last two years or so something up to 20 of the finest and best old Irish bloodstock studs have gone out of business, and this is entirely due to the operation of the wealth tax.

I am not at this stage interested in saying which was the more valuable, whether it was more important to achieve the Minister's taxation objectives in introducing a wealth tax or whether it was better to have preserved an Irish bloodstock industry. That is something which would require a great deal of discussion and debate. The Minister may argue that the considerations which he had in mind, broadening his tax base and gratifying the wishes of certain sections of the community in regard to the wealth tax, were the important considerations. Whatever his ambitions were, he must now face up to the fact, though he did not intend it, that the introduction of his capital taxes has seriously set back and, perhaps, impaired irretrievably the Irish bloodstock industry.

There are two specific aspects of the current tax provisions to which I would like to refer. They are, perhaps, points which are more appropriate on Committee Stage but I would, nevertheless, like to give notice of my intention to raise them at the appropriate time later on.

I want to draw the Minister's attention to the fact that the taxation, as a benefit in kind, of the use of a company car by an employee is working out very unfairly, indeed, and causing considerable hardship in many cases where I am sure this was not intended. There are many commercial travellers who are seriously affected by this provision. I think all of us have recently come across a number of commercial travellers in our constituencies who are being subjected to severe hardship because of the operation of this provision. I recently came across in my own constituency the case of a commercial traveller with a large family, a man who in the normal course of events, is just about able to make ends meet. He has recently received additional assessments going back over a number of years in respect of the alleged benefit he is supposed to derive from the private use of the company car.

I have had other examples given to me of men whose tax free allowances have been reduced by £300, £400 and £500 because of this provision. In the case of the man in my constituency with whose circumstances I am familiar, the benefit in kind is entirely imaginary. This man must take the company car home at weekends in order to be able to get away early on Monday morning on the company's business and his use of the car for his own purposes at weekends is minimal. If at some other level of income certain individuals receive substantial benefit from the use of company cars, then I do not think that fact should be the cause of inflicting completely unjustifiable assessments on hardworking commercial travellers, and that is what is happening at the present time. I intend to return to this matter when we come to Committee Stage.

I would also like to raise at this stage the question of granting relief to taxpayers in respect of payments made under the Health Contributions Act, 1971, because I believe there is a serious anomaly existing in regard to these contributions. Section 145 of the Income Tax Act of 1967 provides for the granting of relief in respect of premiums paid under a contract of insurance to an authorised insurer carrying on the business of insurance in this State. On the other hand, the Revenue Commissioners take the view that health contribution payments are an application of income and not of disposition and, therefore, do not qualify as a deduction for purposes of assessment to income tax. That is grossly unfair. It should be altered and we should avail of this Finance Bill to alter it. The ordinary citizen is compelled by statute to make these health contribution payments whether he wants to do so or not. If he has a right to limited eligibility, then these deductions are made and he has no say over the deduction. Therefore, to my mind, they should be fully allowable as deductions for income tax purposes. As I say, I hope to return to that matter on Committee Stage, but in the meantime, I want to give the Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary notice of my intention to raise that.

The Minister's thesis in his opening remarks was generally to the effect that the reform of the tax structure he had brought about over the last three or four years had enabled him to give concessions in this year's budget and in the Finance Bill. That is simply not the case. The Minister's motivation in making whatever concessions he made in the budget and in the Finance Bill was electoral. He was seeking short term electoral advantage. The reason he was able to give these concessions, such as they were, was not that he had reformed the tax structure; it was merely a reflection of two facts: one, the rate of inflation which prevailed during 1976 had swollen receipts into the Exchequer under practically every heading and, two, his policy, which resulted in many desirable social expenditures being either postponed or savagely curtailed. It was those two things that brought about the favourable situation in the 1976 budget, which, as I say, turned out £127 million better than had been projected. That is what enabled the Minister to give the minimal concessions he has given this year, and I think it is important to realise that is what happened.

In his opening remarks the Minister described this as an "encouragement Finance Bill". I will not ask the House to comment on the inelegance of the language but we should look very seriously at the concept of this "encouragement Finance Bill". We must ask the Minister who, other than perhaps the Revenue Commissioners, are being encouraged by this legislation? The marginal concessions which were outlined in the budget had been already long since overtaken and cancelled out by rising prices and cost increases. In so far as the Minister, in the hope of gaining some electoral political advantage, gave these scattered concessions to different sections of the community, they are no longer of any relevance or significance. The general mismanagement of the economy has, as I said, ensured that they have been overtaken and cancelled out a long time ago by rising prices.

There is no solace in this Bill for the hard pressed householder, for the housewife or for the wage or salary earner. For them, unfortunately, since the budget things have got tougher and harder day by day. They will have to wait, and they know they will have to wait, for a different Minister, a different taxation policy and a different economic outlook, to secure some respite and encouragement. In their management of the economy, this Government have failed miserably. I doubt if it is possible for the Minister or the Parliamentary Secretary to identify any single section of the community who can claim now, in the overall, that they are better off than they were when Deputy R. Ryan became Minister for Finance for the first time. If there is any such significant section of the community, I would be very interested to learn of them.

Because the Minister concentrated all his attentions and energies on his hobbyhorse of perfecting some textbook taxation system and perhaps because of ordinary incompetence, the simple fact is that the Minister has failed to manage our economy in the best interests of the ordinary men and women. He has failed to protect them in their jobs, to give them any security in their employment, to provide any worthwhile level of employment capable of absorbing the increasing number of school leavers coming on the employment market and to retain any relationship between wages and salaries on the one hand and prices on the other. Admittedly, that is not an easy thing to do in a modern community and particularly in an open-ended economy like ours. Difficult though it may be in the circumstances, I do not think the Minister could have made a worse job of it than he has done—18 per cent inflation last year and 14 per cent this year, in spite of all he has attempted to do.

In the fundamental things that affect ordinary men and women in their daily lives, his management of the economy has been a dismal failure in the last three or four years. It is a poor recompense for him or for any of us if the only thing he can claim in this Finance Bill is that he has improved the system of taxation, although I do not think he has improved the system of taxation.

My principal thesis in this speech is this: the only way to break out of this deadlock of rising prices and rising incomes—whichever is chasing which is for somebody else to decide—is to increase productivity. We should get more people working better, more efficiently and effectively to produce cheaper and better goods and services. Once we get that process under way, we will get inflation under control and will have reasonable, stable relationships between prices and incomes. That is the only way to do it. Anything else is an illusion and fraudulent. The only way to get increased productivity is to give ordinary men and women the incentive and motivation to achieve it and the only way to do that is to give them more and more of their income in their own hands to spend as they wish and not as some socialist theorist in the Minister's office or somewhere else thinks it should be spent.

The Minister's major catastrophic failure is that he has not introduced in our difficult economic circumstances— fifth from the bottom of the OECD league—a taxation system which would give ordinary men and women the necessary incentives to give us the the economic growth, development and productivity we need if we are ever to become a worthwhile community in an economic and social sense.

When outlining this Finance Bill, the Minister was talking purely for a June election. He has not come up with a forward plan nor has he taken out any of the anomalies which would be needed to give taxpayers the necessary incentive to help expand the economy. When this Government took office their first priority should have been to produce a programme for the future. Their attitude seemed to be "come day, go day, God send Sunday, it does not matter" and we all know what has happened as a result of that attitude. Every businessman, farmer or industrialist has a planned programme for this year, next year and possibly the year after, but this Government, the biggest industry in the country, are showing no signs of producing a programme. On the Sunday of an All-Ireland Final they brought out a Green Paper. One might ask why it was brought out in such a hurry. The Employer-Labour Conference were meeting on Monday at 11 a.m. and Fianna Fáil had brought out their financial programme two weeks earlier. On Friday, the Government were told that if they did not have a programme, the Fianna Fáil programme would be on the table the next morning. The Government could not let themselves down on that. They produced something that was not even a discussion document. It had no target. It listed some things that could be achieved or might be desirable; just a review. It did not discuss policies. This is typical of what they are doing. Coming up now to the election they will possibly produce tremendous programmes like the 14-point plan for the last election. Very few of these points were implemented. One concerned stabilising prices. But what has happened? What £1 would buy in March, 1973, would require £2 today. That is stabilisation for you.

They certainly have expanded as regards borrowing. Our national debt is three times what it was in March, 1973. That would be all right if we had industries, farm development or a national programme for the development of roads and for building, but no, most of that money, over £800 million of the increased borrowing, went to prop up inefficient housekeeping. Compare that with when Fianna Fáil were in office. The budget the present Government introduced when they took office had a deficit of £5 million, practically the highest deficit of any Fianna Fáil Government. In the four years of the present Government they have gone to over £800 million of a loss on ordinary current expenses. The greatest shame is that in the past 12 months they did not spend all their capital programme moneys, a programme that would create jobs. They do not seem to be interested in doing that; otherwise, they would have made sure that the capital moneys were spent. When you provide the capital you are providing for jobs and growth in the economy.

Our economy has been rendered stagnant by the inefficiency of this Government. Unemployment has gone from 60,000 to 113,000. At one stage it reached 118,000. The other day the Taoiseach, speaking down the country, spoke at length on what the oil crisis had cost us. He went from one figure to another; very impressive figures, very big increases. The public should really know what it has meant. The Arabs put 12p per gallon on petrol and Deputy Richie Ryan put 35p per gallon on it. That leaves him the biggest Arab of all.

It would have been far better, when the Arab increase arose, to have subsidised oil and to have made sure that the industries in which the greatest numbers became unemployed would have been able to keep going. Very few of the extra 60,000 people who have become unemployed are out of work of their own accord. Most of them would prefer to have a job. Some did leave their jobs to try to get work nearer home as a result of the present Minister's petrol policy, when it would not pay them to travel a long distance to work. In my own area large numbers travelled to Dublin to work and overnight petrol prices went up. The last increase was 13 pence and the car tax nearly doubled. This left them in the position that it would not pay them to travel to work. If it cost them £5 per week for a seat or for their portion of the car expenses and if they were paying income tax they would have to earn £6.25 to meet that expense because it is not a chargeable expense. If it cost them more, as it did in many cases such as where a person was running his own car which could cost £10 or £15 per week, it would mean he would have to earn at least £20 to meet that expense as he would still have to pay tax. That is a serious disincentive. It meant that they found they had to take lower wages and were better or nearly as well off in doing that.

It would have been better to subsidise oil to industries that needed it and to have kept the people employed. Also, it would have saved the Government money because they would not have had to pay unemployment benefit to those people. If one calculates the cost of the extra numbers unemployed you find that the Government paid out roughly £80 million each year in unemployment benefit and pay-related benefit to people who could have been working. To have done as I have suggested would have been better economics. It would not have cost the Government any more because, even if there was a shortfall between 80 per cent and 100 per cent, the extra spending power would have produced extra VAT receipts and extra money from other taxes also. There would have been no loss even if they had given a 100 per cent subsidy.

We hear a good deal about the number unemployed in England and in Germany and we are told that it is a world wide problem. To put the record straight, the 1.4 million people unemployed in England is 6.2 per cent of the workforce, the one million unemployed in Germany is 5 per cent of the workforce while our unemployment figure is practically 10 per cent of the workforce. That is the nub of the matter, the percentage of the workforce unemployed. I think this is the greatest indictment of the Government. This Finance Bill should have done more to encourage employment. The Minister for Labour has published his personal advertisement but it has not produced very good results. It is all right to give this kind of incentive but mainly you must give the incentive to industrialists and farmers so that they can see a future for themselves, show them that there is a planned economy in which they can develop and that there is a market for their products. They can only plan for a market if they know the economy is being kept on an even keel.

The incentives in the Bill will not affect all companies. They will benefit only companies who have a good home market for their produce and who have been paying their way all the time. Companies feeling the pinch of the recession will not benefit unless they can generate taxable profits in excess of last year. Only companies engaged in manufacture for the home market who are making good profits and who satisfy other conditions will benefit. The target increase is 5 per cent on 1976 sales.

Where this Bill fails is in not establishing targets for 1978 and 1979. The Government have not been setting future targets and that is why industrialists feel the time has not come for expansion. They have not confidence in the Government. The reverse was the case under Fianna Fáil. They gave confidence to people to expand.

In order to get down unemployment there must be plans to keep people on the land. At the moment there is still a flight from the land. There must be activity to encourage farmers to keep employees on the land. It is one way to get unemployment down.

Another fault in this year's budget is that there has been no tax incentive to working people to increase production. The Minister spoke a lot about the £2 a week increase in tax free allowances, but that means only an extra 50p a week to a worker. The budget also puts earned income on a par with unearned income. Fianna Fáil have always felt that people who earned money with the sweat of their brows should get an incentive above a person who invests money and who can sit back and enjoy his income coming in each week or month.

As I said, this Bill does nothing by way of incentive to a worker to increase output and therefore to help to develop the industry in which he works. Increased output, and consequently increased exports, are our only hope to repay the massive borrowings of the past three years, interest and principle. Too often these days we hear people saying it is not worth working overtime or on Saturdays— Richie will take it all. Industrialists are saying the same thing. Such a taxation system is dangerous from the point of view of agricultural and industrial output. During our term we gave tax incentives in regard to profits made from increased industrial exports. This in turn created new jobs. It benefited farmers as well. From the increased money in circulation the Exchequer would benefit in the long run even if the taxation rate were reduced.

It may be said that bonuses and extra tax incentives for agricultural and industrial workers would not benefit people on fixed incomes such as civil servants and other public employees. They too, should benefit from increased national prosperity, from an upsurge in the GNP. The Minister would be well advised to think along these lines.

On the one hand we want to see our standard of living rising and at the same time to keep abreast of the economies of other countries. Since this Government took office the reverse has been the case. In 1973 our inflation rate was 8 per cent and it is now about 20 per cent. The Government may say it is coming down but it is taking them a long time to bring it down. In 1973 our inflation rate was no greater than West Germany's, but the Germans have now managed to get their rate down to 3.9 per cent. They were governed efficiently.

It is very serious to see cattle, sheep and pig numbers dropping. Those numbers dropped drastically since the National Coalition took office and yet we are told that farmers have gained tremendously in the EEC and as a result of the efforts of the present Minister. The Minister for Agriculture boasted on occasions of having got £25 million and £100 million extra for our farmers but he omitted to say that it was at the expense of the urban community. He has succeeded in driving one section of the community against the other but has done little to increase agricultural output. Farmers have always maintained that if stock numbers reduce output will also decrease with the result that within a few years the holding will have to be sold. I accept that the Minister has fought hard to improve the lot of farmers but he has done nothing to promote an increase in output. The beef incentive scheme which helped to improve production has to all intents and purposes been withdrawn. While those with a valuation under £23 can benefit under that scheme they are restricted to a minimum of ten cows. A farmer should be entitled to keep as many cattle as he can on his land, irrespective of valuation.

There is no incentive to increase output from the land. A slight increase in agricultural output would lead to a dramatic increase in exports. Such an improvement is needed if we are to get the country moving again and be able to pay for the massive borrowing the Government embarked on in the last four years. The Government should establish a body like Córas Tráchtála to market our agricultural produce in Europe.

The Deputy will appreciate that the Bill deals with taxation.

I am trying to bring it home to the Minister that in the Bill he has not given any incentive to the farming community to increase output from their holdings. I am sure the Chair will agree it is important that agricultural output be stepped up.

It is in order to discuss on this Bill Government taxation proposals and the effect of such taxation on the country. Taxation measures and not Government expenditure can only be discussed.

As a result of the Government's taxation measures cattle, sheep and pig numbers have dropped. The Government do not know where they are going with regard to taxation and farmers do not know whether the notional system will be applied to them or not. There is talk of 60 per cent and the Minister is asking farmers to pay their taxes in advance of making profit while everybody else pays tax on the profit that is made. The farming community are being treated in a different way from other taxpayers. They are only asking that the Minister apply the same conditions to them as he does to those engaged in industry. I suggest that rates on agricultural land be taken as an instalment of tax from farmers and not as an ordinary expense. Farmers always considered rates a form of income tax and always felt that they were asked to pay more rates than industrial concerns.

I should like to quote statistics to show the House how stock numbers have dropped in the last four years. Cow slaughterings in the factories in 1973 amounted to 257,000 while in 1974, it was 413,000, in 1975, it was 589,000 and in 1976 it was 340,000. It is good to see that the slaughterings dropped a little in 1976 but cattle stocks were depleted in 1974 and 1975 and the Minister has done nothing in this Bill to remedy the situation. The same system has applied in relation to sheep numbers. In 1973 sheep were numbered at 4¼ million, in 1974 it dropped to 4 million, in 1975 it was 3.7 million and in 1976, 3.5 million. Nothing has been done to increase sheep production. The real wealth of the country is in livestock and the Minister for Finance should create incentives to increase production.

We are straying from the Bill.

Something should also have been done in this Bill in relation to housing and providing employment for young people. At least 20,000 jobs a year should have been created. There are 60,000 school leavers unemployed from last year and the year before and these numbers will increase further in June and still nothing has been done in relation to employment. The Government are taking a very dangerous course because young people will not accept unemployment. Some type of crash programme should have been included in this Bill to help the unemployed school leavers. People are beginning to wonder if it is worth while being educated because at the end of it there are no job prospects. When this Government took up office there were job opportunities for people. Granted one could not walk straight into a job but at the end of six months one could be reasonably sure of a position. That is not the case at present. Something should also be done to curtail the inflation rate.

The Minister in his budget, because a general election is looming, announced that he would create 7,000 new jobs. Experience has shown that the unemployment rate is higher in January. In January, 1976, unemployment was up to 170,000 or 180,000 and by June the figure had decreased to 110,000 or 111,000. This is the usual pattern in employment. The Government will say that they have created 7,000 new jobs in their last year but in actual fact they will have created no new jobs. This Finance Bill has done nothing to help either agriculture or industry to create new jobs. Taxation reliefs should be introduced for the creation of new jobs. The Government must be able to show that they can bring down the rate of inflation so that people can plan ahead.

This Bill announced that the rates will be reduced by 25 per cent for this year but that is not going far enough. When we mentioned that we would bring down the rates after our first year in office the present Government asked why did we have to wait a whole year to do it. I asked in this House when would the Valuation Office be able to segregate outoffices and business premises from living quarters. It was not possible to do that from January until this Finance Bill was introduced. They used a rule of thumb. They took one-third off the valuation and counted that as a relief. A number of people are caught in relation to grants for reconstruction. They cannot take off the valuation of the outbuildings. The valuation of the house and the out offices is shown as one valuation. They should be segregated. There is nothing in this Finance Bill to ensure that will be done. I have been informed by the Valuation Office that they will not do it unless it is covered by statute.

I am amazed that a socialist Government would give a tax relief of £2 to a single person while a person earning £15,000 a year has an extra £1,200 in his pocket as a result of this budget, and the man earning £20,000 has over £2,000 extra. The person at the lower end of the scale gets a tax relief of £26. That is not a fair system. The Bill is helping the rich at the expense of the poor. I was amazed to hear some socialists saying they did not mind that. Most people in the higher income bracket expect to pay high taxation but, in their wisdom, the Government feel they should get more money in relief than some people in the lower income bracket are actually earning a week. This Finance Bill is not providing incentives to industry and agriculture to develop. It will not bring down the rate of inflation or increase output to enable us to increase our exports and to pay for the massive borrowing over the past four years. The Bill should have been much more imaginative and much more constructive in an effort to get the country moving again.

As I was driving up to the city this morning I thought it was a beautiful day for canvassing and what a pity it was the Taoiseach did not go up to President Hillery and dissolve the Dáil. As you move around the House today, you feel you are at the wake of the Government and the Dáil, rather than in a House of Parliament where we should have constructive debate and get on with our business. The Labour benches are empty and, apart from the Parliamentary Secretary, the Fine Gael benches are empty. For the past couple of hours we have been beating the Government three to one in the House. I do not know whether the election will be held on 15th June or 22nd June. I presume the Parliamentary Secretary does not know either. I made a little bet that it will be held on 15th June and, if the Parliamentary Secretary has any influence, I hope he will whisper something in the Taoiseach's ear so that I can win that bet.

I am anxious that the Deputy should get down to the details of the Finance Bill.

I was about to start when you interrupted me. We had another budget this morning when the price of tea went up by 32p per lb. I am sure that deals with finance so far as the housewife is concerned. It may postpone the date of the election from 15th to 22nd June.

During his speech as shadow Minister for Finance, Deputy Colley referred to the fact that the national debt is now £4 billion. People might think we had slipped up and were talking about £4 million, but we are talking about £4 billion. Later in the debate Deputy Briscoe said it costs £500 per minute to fund the current national debt. I told him afterwards he made a mistake of £300. The figures worked out by financiers prove it is costing £800 per minute to fund our national debt. It is all right in business to borrow money for capital investment. If a businessman wants to purchase a truck he borrows the money because he can write it off over a period of years and, during that time, the truck will be earning money. The same would apply to a haulier or anybody else. If that businessman decided to borrow money to pay the wages of his employees he could only continue to do so for a certain length of time. He would then have to ask himself "What will happen in a few years' time when I cannot borrow any more money to pay wages?".

Surely the Taoiseach, the Minister for Finance and members of the Government must realise that, like that businessman, we cannot borrow any more for current expenditure. They will have to find the money they borrowed for health services, social welfare services, wages in the public service, and they will also have to find money to pay off the £800 per minute to which I referred. These are the major problems I see facing the country in the years to come. Future generations will have to find this money. Whether it is borrowed from the Arabs, or the European Investment Bank, or by national loan, it will have to be paid back, and future generations will have to pay it. Recently I heard a person say our financial situation is so bad that the Fianna Fáil Party are not anxious to get back into Government. I am putting it on the record now that Fianna Fáil, under Deputy Lynch, are prepared to take on Labour and Fine Gael and anybody else tomorrow morning. When the election is over we hope we will be back in Government to get the country moving again.

Much has been said about the increased turnover in the business of Government, in other words, the increased turnover in the gross national product and all the other nice phrases which have been invented from time to time. If there has been an increase in turnover, there has not been an increase in output. It is advisable to give examples to show what one means when speaking of these things. Take the case of a baker who is selling 2,000 loaves per week. He was selling them in 1973 at Xp per loaf. Today he is selling the same number of loaves at 2Xp per loaf, therefore he has increased his turnover by 100 per cent, though there is no extra output. The same thing applies to this nation. There has been no increase in real terms in actual production. This is a very important aspect of some of the figures being bandied around. If we export X hundred items of machinery this year we must export twice that number of machines next year. We cannot fool ourselves in this sort of situation.

I want to raise the statement made recently by the Minister for Labour. He looked quite well in the newspapers. In my constituency, Carlow/ Kilkenny, I have had many inquiries within the past week or two from industrialists asking me how they can qualify for this bonus. Some of them had made application but because they were not in manufacturing industry they did not qualify. As I understand it, nobody in the food processing industry will qualify for this and neither will any firm which has been grant-aided. I should like the Minister to give us some idea of the type of firm which does qualify. This would save the time of typists and wasted telephone calls in contacting people who think that they may qualify for this bonus which the Minister for Labour will give from his own pocket, according to the advertisement.

A certain amount of the money provided in the budget was for increases in social welfare payments. This is one of the planks on which the Government stand. I should like this Dublin-based Government to come down the country and meet some of the widows and old age pensioners who are trying to exist on their present pensions. There has been no real increase and this is related to what I was saying earlier. In this House we forget about the widows and old age pensioners. At the wake of this Dáil it must be said that they are not being looked after. It is a sad occasion when a widow or an old age pensioner has to come to a Deputy to look for £1 home assistance.

I now refer to local government. As chairman of the Carlow County Council I can say that we have found it very difficulty to run our financial affairs due to the complete mismanagement of the Department of Local Government. Naturally they depend on the Department of Finance for money. We struck a rate last January on the assumption that money for housing repairs would be forthcoming as in the previous year and as the Government had promised. Having struck a rate which was a massive increase on the previous year the Department of Local Government informed us that there would be no money whatever from the Exchequer in the current year for housing repairs. The only thing we could do was try to borrow money to keep the housing repair gangs and to keep the roofs on the houses until there is a change of Government and this money is provided. It is good to give the example of one county council because very often it applies to other county councils as well. In June of last year we received a circular from the Minister for Local Government, as did every other local authority, stating that there would be no more money available for any new housing programme within the local authority area for the rest of 1976 and the only moneys available would be for contracts which were already in the course of construction.

I trust the Deputy will not attempt to deal in detail with matters appertaining to local Government. It would be more appropriate for the Estimate on Local Government.

I accept that but it involves finance. I want to mention that we got no money at all for sanitary services. Sanitary services contracts have had to be shelved. A shock did come to us at the last meeting of the Carlow County Council. We were informed by the county manager that water rents, which average £2 for a local authority house, would be increased by £10 per year plus 50p in respect of each £ valuation. The increase in water rent for a house of £12 valuation would be 800 per cent. I can state that we will not accept that and when the new Minister takes up office perhaps he will do something about it.

Deputy Crinion referred to farming. Generally speaking, in the past farmers looked for something from the budget. Down through the years an incentive was always given to the sheep industry. Deputy Crinion referred to this. There is no sheep policy as such in the common agricultural policy of the European Community, though it relates to many other farm products. The reason that sheep farmers were subsidised is that this sector was the most depressed. Deputy Crinion quoted figures but I did not have the chance to take note of them because I was speaking to Deputy Meaney at the time. He showed the big drop in sheep numbers. The reason is that grassland is very expensive and sheep farmers cannot produce sheep economically. As far as I know, the Minister for Agriculture is taking the action against the French because the French will not allow sheep into the Paris market. Yet the Minister is as aware as I am that, because there is no sheep policy within the Community, he will be spending taxpayers' money on a case already lost. It is time the Minister realised that the real culprits in this respect are the Brits because they import lamb from New Zealand and export their own to Europe.

I am afraid the Deputy is now straying considerably from the Finance Bill.

Referring again to Europe—and I am going into the financial aspects in relation to this Bill—last year the total income to our Exchequer from Europe was something around £140 million. When we entered Europe —and the Fine Gael Party were involved as much as we were in this— we informed the people that there would be certain price increases consequent on our entry. But we said that the moneys that would be gained by our entry, because we would have a net income, would be used to subsidise food to prevent exorbitant increases in food prices. I am taking a round figure, that the £140 million was our net income from Europe and £48 million was the amount used on food subsidies. I should like to know from the Minister what happened the rest of that £140 million. He knows, as do I, that the colleagues of his own party, of mine in Fianna Fáil and those of the Labour Party in Europe, fought hard in the European Parliament to get as much money as possible for the regional fund. The income from that fund to our Exchequer was to be used for infrastructure, but particularly for the development of underdeveloped areas. The fund was set up for that purpose. Yet, on reading some document in the last few days, I found that most of this money was being used by the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs on telephone exchanges and so on. That money should have been utilised for the improvement of our roads and the installation of water and sewerage schemes in underdeveloped areas. But it has been grabbed by the Minister for Posts and Telegraphs. That is the end of the cake as far as the unfortunate people in the underdeveloped parts of the country are concerned.

However, as far as finance is concerned, the decision of our people to enter the EEC has been proved to be correct. I was surprised to note the result of a survey showing that at present 70 per cent of our people would still vote to go into Europe. They know that, were we not in Europe we would not be able to borrow money from the European Investment Bank and we would be unable to sell our beef—we would have mountains of it here, as we would of butter, milk powder and other products. It is a great tribute to the maturity of our people that they still realise the benefits of our entry into the EEC.

Health enters into the budget also, as does the amount of money allocated to the health services.

I am afraid I must dissuade the Deputy from the impression that this is a budget debate. Indeed, it is not. This is a debate on the Finance Bill and the same latitude is not permitted as was allowed on the budget debate long since past.

In view of the ruling of the Chair, which I accept and always have in the House, I shall conclude by referring again to the agricultural industry, in so far as in the Bill there is the provision for income tax on farmers. Every Member of this House realises—and the farmers themselves have said repeatedly—that farmers are prepared to pay their share of taxation similar to that of any other citizen. But, when the people are hit suddenly by a system of taxation— and we all know that traditionally farmers were not like business people or anybody else who kept accounts— it is necessary that there be a transitional period. I am not saying that farmers should have been allowed to get away without paying a certain amount of tax but there are many ways in which this money could have been collected. One suggestion made by farmers was for its collection at marts, where they sell their stock, and where it would be easy to estimate what would bring in the amount the Minister required—I think originally £35 million which was subsesquently reduced by £10 million—having a certain amount payable per head of livestock or on quantities of corn being sold. In the meantime, through the farming organisations, in consultation with the Revenue Commissioners, a system of income tax could have been arranged under which farmers could have been informed of what type of records they would be required to keep. As a rural Deputy, I am satisfied that that is exactly what farmers wanted. The Minister will be known always as the person who hammered the farmers and he will go down in history as such. But the Minister must admit that the farmers have said that they are prepared to meet their fair share of taxation and it is in his hands to arrange that.

Statements have been made recently about reduction in unemployment and so on. I might refer briefly to the OECD Report, which shows that we are top of the league again as far as unemployment is concerned, which will increase yet again with the 60,000 odd people leaving schools. Indeed we are top of the league in everything. Were there a European Cup for bad management there is no doubt but that this Government would win it.

It is obvious to everybody that this is the last Finance Bill of this Dáil. It would be no harm to digress for a moment and think about what is embodied in a Finance Bill. It governs what a lot of people will pay in various forms of taxation and the way in which that will be collected. This is the fifth Finance Bill introduced by this Government. As one travels throughout Ireland at present one will realise that never was the sheriff a busier man collecting moneys on behalf of the Department of Finance. Perhaps somebody would enumerate the number of cases presently referred from the Revenue Commissioners' office for collection to the various sheriffs throughout the land and compare it with the numbers involved in former years, from last year, right back to 1972.

There is much greater urgency now on the part of the Revenue Commissioners to refer to sheriffs even disputed amounts not completed by auditors and so on. Many people have had the sheriff on top of them without warning, with the excuse presumably, that the auditors whom you pay should have known the position. Many people have had the experience of seeing the large removal van arrive. Such people feel very sorely about what is happening at present. It was always somewhat of a stain on one's character when the sheriff's van arrived at one's door, and those vans were never busier than they are at present. They go out and collect either the money or chairs, antiques, anything at all that is saleable. There is something wrong with our taxation system, with our Finance Bill, when there is such an upsurge in these collections by the sheriff and the big removal vans. You can hardly hold on to anything if that van comes, but I would like to pay a tribute to some of the collectors because they are more than lenient if they can be at all. However, it is the people who are sending them, the Government of the day who pass legislation that allows such things to happen, that must be held responsible.

This Finance Bill was much lauded at the time of the negotiation of the recent wage agreement. This was to set the pace for future wage agreements. Is there not a danger that this will be the last Finance Bill passed in this country for a long time in conjunction with which a wage agreement will be finalised? Going through it, one sees nothing to give confidence to the ordinary worker. If the Irish workers were ever let down it was in connection with the last wage agreement. The Government of the day are mainly responsible for that, but the top union officials cannot be exonerated from letting down the workers. While negotiations were taking place the Minister of the day knew that huge price increases had been made out. In this connection I am reminded of a group of people who were loud in their condemnation in the Press, on television and on radio of price increases before the last election. Their silence was well bought and, through patronage, they have good jobs and are very quiet at the moment. As I say, this Finance Bill will have a detrimental effect on future wage agreements. I sincerely hope I am wrong, but I can say that the ordinary man and woman down the country feels very sore about the wage agreement. When they read the statements of the various economists and political commentators in the Press they find that at the end of the year they will have paid as much tax under this Finance Bill as they paid last year.

The ordinary worker is incensed that this Bill enables a person on the £20,000 income bracket to gain almost £2,000 of an advantage. That is a huge concession to a small number of people. People with such large incomes should be able to look after themselves and their families. The person with a modest income gains very little by way of tax concessions.

Another type of person who gains little under this Bill is the disabled person. Disabled persons got the increase for themselves but not for their dependants. Any person who has to live on the income provided by the disabled person's maintenance allowance is finding the going very hard. It is a sad situation that there is no provision for them under this Bill. If I am wrong the Minister can contradict me, but some of these people have complained to me about this. I have checked the matter out and I think the case is as I have stated but, perhaps, the Minister is thinking of making a change in this.

In discussing this Bill we must bear in mind that this country is mortgaged up to the hilt. Enormous sums of money have been borrowed abroad. Whatever people may say about the soundness of the economy, the time will come when these debts will have to be repaid. England started on the same road some years ago. They refused to support the pound properly. They decided to borrow money in order to support it. They landed in trouble again and had to borrow more money and so on. The situation is such now in that country that one has to ask who won the last war, Great Britain, as it then was, or Germany? We do not want our finances to follow the same pattern and to lose our identity completely.

A great deal of the money raised in taxes will go abroad to pay back the money that has been borrowed. However, I cannot see that the money that was raised was well spent. If the millions of pounds raised in the last four years has been spent wisely, there would not be unemployment at well over 100,000 as at present. There would not be so many young people without jobs and with no hope of finding jobs. Neither would the newspapers throughout the country carry the picture of the Minister for Labour making his last ditch stand, offering £20 here and £10 there.

In spite of the great expenditure of money by the Government, our health services have been allowed to run down. Amenity grants to the local authorities no longer exist. The agricultural relief grant for employing a man on the land, small though the money was, has also gone by the board. The Government cannot argue that the benefit of the millions of pounds being spent has gone to social welfare. From 1973 to 1977 the cost of living has gone up almost 100 per cent. The amount of goods that cost 100 pence in 1973 now costs almost 200 pence. Therefore, the purchasing power of the money given to social welfare beneficiaries has greatly declined.

If we talk about planning—and there must be a plan in the context of a Finance Bill—we were so impoverished that we could not even afford a census to discover what was the movement in the population or to obtain important statistics in regard to industry. Surely the £1,500,000 which the Government said it would cost to hold a census would have been money well spent.

The Government claim they have to cater for an increased population. The first increase in population took place in 1961 under a different Government. It was not in 1973, 1974 or 1975 that it took place. That Government had also to cater for the young people seeking employment. There were schemes on hand to ensure they got a fair crack of the whip. Notwithstanding the huge amount of money borrowed by this Government, there is no provision in the budget or under this Bill to help the working man to send a son or daughter to university or to get third level education. It may be cheaper to provide a university education if the student lives near the university, but if he lives in a rural area it is calculated that it costs £750 per annum to educate him at university. Nevertheless, there has been no increase in the qualifying limit for those grants since 1973.

Those people who have not got these concessions to which they are entitled are paying taxes, and almost every pound out of £5 now goes to service the national debt. Very often one hears jokes in the bar about the amount we pay or the money borrowed to keep the seventh wife of some oil sheik happy. We have borrowed a great deal from those countries and all this money is going out of the country. Every pound borrowed must produce £1.05 if borrowing is to make sense. Has that happened over the last four years? It certainly has not.

This Bill, to which the ordinary worker looked forward, has produced nothing for him. Before the financial year is over he will realise that. What is it doing for young people? What is it doing to provide more employment? The Minister introduced a special scheme which has not been very successful, despite all the publicity it was given. It has not been specified who will be given this £20. It must be remembered that this is the taxpayers' money, not the Minister's.

I cannot understand why the local authorities cannot avail of that scheme. A man can be in receipt of £30 or £40 on the dole or in pay-related benefits. If we add £20 to that money we could provide a job for him. Our streets are not so clean that we could not afford to have more men working on them. There is an oil crisis. What are we doing about our bogs? It is high time the local authorities got extra money to open them. There are gulleys on our main roads which have not been opened for the past five or six years and when it rains it stays on the roads.

We hear daily of the millions of pounds being borrowed, so why is there not money to fill in even a pothole? In some instances after a spell of fine weather a man could sit in some potholes because they are so big. As the wag in my county said, when it rains heavily the wild duck does not know whether the water is on the roads or in the rivers. Our roads are breaking up rapidly and the local authorities do not have the money to repair them. If we are borrowing all these millions, why do we not give them the £20 grant to provide more employment and maintain our roads? After every local authority meeting an application is made for extra money to carry out road repairs, but there does not seem to be any money being made available. This proves that what the Government are saying about the prosperity of the land is bunkum. The Minister for Finance says he wants to hear no more talk about the recession because it is all over. If it is, why is more money not available to the local authorities?

Young people feel very badly about the way they are being treated. Thousands of them are leaving school. The Labour Party have openly asked the Taoiseach to announce the general election for the 22nd June before these people come on the employment market. There is nothing in this Bill which will provide employment for them. They will not be good citizens if they start drawing unemployment assistance at an early age.

Agriculture is the mainstay of our economy. But for it this country would have sunk into the mire. The majority of people engaged in agriculture are small farmers. I can see very little help for them in this Bill. We are discussing the taxation system which applies to the larger farmers. Everybody knows that the £75 ceiling will become £50, £40, £25 and down. The most disillusioned people are those who do a little contract work for the small farmer. When the Revenue Commissioners implement this Bill many of these men will be put out of business.

On a big farm there is expensive machinery. Many thousands of small farmers with a small acreage for silage and so on depend on the smaller contractor to help them. The Minister should make some concession for the man who lives in a disadvantaged area. If this small farmer, who has eight or nine cows, works for other farmers outside the disadvantaged area he will not qualify for the disadvantaged area machinery grant. If he has two small holdings, one with a £9 and £10 valuation, he cannot legally work on the £9 valuation and qualify for the grant. That is what the agricultural officers tell them.

There is not much hope for them in this Bill. The disadvantaged areas scheme has not been extended this year. The Minister for Agriculture said he sees no point in extending it further because there are enough farmers in it now and he has looked after most of them. In my opinion, he does not have the interest of the small farmer at heart. We have asked him on a number of occasions to think of the disadvantaged farmer. A small farmer living among 20 big farmers would have to rear his family and carry the same overheads as the bigger men. Yet the Minister has stated that there will not be any further increases.

Again I want to put on record my great disappointment that the Department of Agriculture did not put the suggestions made by the various committees of agriculture to the EEC. Of course, finance is involved and the Government would have to pay a percentage of the grants paid. The EEC Commissioners did not refuse any request from this Government for an extension of the disadvantaged areas scheme because they did not ask. The excuse given by the Government was that they did not think they would qualify.

I realise that if we extended the scheme we would have to pay a percentage of the grants, but why not? Surely the Department of Finance or the Department of Agriculture are able to differentiate between a small farmer with eight to 15 cows and a bigger farmer with 60 to 80 cows. The smaller man does not know how he will live. There is no price control on the fertilisers he must buy, yet he is supposed to produce goods as best he can.

If he is a transitional farmer it is likely that there will not be any grants for him in a short while. I should like the Minister when replying and discussing farming taxation for the man on the higher valuation and higher level of income to say what he has in the Finance Bill, or in store, for the smaller farmer to keep him on the land. He cannot be taken off the land because there are no jobs for him. Surely he is entitled to a better deal than what he is getting? If he creates a little business with his neighbours he will be taxed out of existence. Another strange thing is this: in the case of a family consisting of a father and son and a couple of children at school, perhaps, and they have 12 cows, if the son who has got his leaving certificate applies for the dole, he is assessed at about £7 per week against his keep. That is very wrong on the part of the Department of Social Welfare. There may be cases where there is a larger income and where this kind of assessment can be justified but not in the case of a small man. Where can he go? There is no industry down the road for him. He must do the best he can and the State should not hesitate to give him more help.

What do the socialists in the Government think of this? Not so many years ago the Taoiseach, returning from abroad, said that there would be no place in our economy except for the 400-acre farmer. He was loudly applauded by some of his colleagues. That is coming to pass and it is a sad day. Cattle numbers are not as high as they were and the same applies to sheep. This is a tragedy because the advantage we have in being members of the EEC is very much confined to the agricultural sector. More money should be ploughed into agriculture to help the smaller man.

The Minister says he will give the £20. What will he give to keep people on the land? There does not seem to be any scheme to give an extra incentive there. The Minister says any employer who takes on an extra man will get £20. That is £20 the Minister has collected from somebody else in the same factory; he is not giving it himself. Many factories that could have been saved by prompt Government action have gone to the wall in the past four years. We must provide finance, grants and so on, for factories. Recently, I saw a factory that had been opened with a great fanfare and a very nice speech from the Minister concerned. Dutifully, the local Fine Gael branch presented him with a silver salver. But the dust had not gathered on the salver before the factory closed. The Minister has the salver. That is a sad situation but it is happening throughout the country. I could name the factory, which is very near me, if I wished. There is no use in talking of the huge investment you are going to make in industry unless you back it up and this has not been done in the past four years despite huge borrowing abroad.

We have now reached the stage that when an ordinary county council worker living with his wife retires he has to pay fairly heavy income tax on the council pension and the social welfare pension. They get no medical card. It is wrong if a man works on the roads or with the corporation and retires with a pension that he should be taxed on that pension for which he has worked for many years. He should be entitled to enjoy his retirement. Yet he pays tax like everybody else. He will not get a medical card because the qualification limits are very narrow.

What advantage will this Finance Bill be to the health boards? There is talk of money gathered in taxation being distributed for various projects under the Department of Health. The health services are being run down. Day after day we hear members of the Government saying that if they had not taken the health charges off the rates they would be so much higher. What service did we get? Nothing at all. All through the country you will find old people hiring motor cars to get to hospital for eye complaints, bone complaints or for whatever purpose the doctor may require them to go. If such a person comes out of the hospital having got drops in his eyes, this Government would not care if he walked into the river and was drowned.

The Deputy is getting away from the Bill.

He is walking into the river.

I am discussing the taxpayers' money. I shall reply to the letter I got from the Deputy during the week. I am referring to where the money is going, the money being collected under the Finance Bill.

It is not concerned with expenditure but taxation.

That is what I am talking about, the retired worker who has to pay income tax and has no medical card and has to hire a car to get to the clinic. I am saying that if he must have eye treatment there is nobody to look after him when he comes out of the clinic.

That would be more relevant on another occasion.

Possibly I would agree but I want to know what service he gets for his money. We see health boards bringing in a scheme so that only half the ambulances will be running in rural areas.

We cannot go into that.

Yes, but it is all due to lack of money.

Is the Deputy suggesting more taxation?

He is saying that the present taxation should be better spent.

He wants everybody going to hospital to be accompanied by somebody to make sure he does not walk into the river?

We know you do not give a damn about them.

Every citizen is entitled to good hospital treatment and good health services which he is not getting in rural areas. I am sure the Chair will not mind if we have a few words with the Minister——

The Chair must ensure that we keep to the Finance Bill.

In framing budgets and Finance Bills you must give incentives to save. The nation must become thrifty to survive. For many years we have not given people any incentive to save. Only a short time ago the Minister for Finance decided that in a budget he would go after the £70 interest which investors were allowed and add it on to the earner's income for taxation purposes. While it was being discussed here it got a very bad reception outside and the Minister changed his mind. He reverted to the old system. We thought that in 1977 especially, being an election year, the £70 would at least be multiplied and increased to £500. What is the incentive to save and earn interest if, after £70, the bank manager reports you to the Revenue Commissioners and you are again taxed on your savings?

I have said before and will continue to say that surely a young person is entitled to save almost the price of the house that he intends to buy or build without being taxed so heavily on it. It is great to see young people saving when they begin to work. They are settling down and each one of them desires to own his house in which to bring up his family.

There are very few bank managers who will tell anybody they are reporting him to the Revenue Commissioners, and if you ask a bank manager about it afterwards he will say "It was up on the wall and you should have read it". The appropriate Acts should inform people that bankers should tell them they were reporting them to the Revenue Commissioners. At the moment people do not know what is happening and they are very sore at bank managers who inform the Revenue Commissioners about their private business. Apart from that, the amount, £70, that is free of tax is a paltry sum.

The Finance Bill does not contain anything for the vast majority of people. I do not see how taxpayers will come out any better at the end of this year than last year. There is no special concession for the survivors of the War of Independence of whom there are very few left. I will continue to speak here on their behalf. We should give them something worth while and get rid of the ridiculous means tests. When they get special allowances they should be worth something. They fought for their country, they fought to put us here, and the few of them who are left should be able to go to their graves saying the Irish nation did not forget them.

I will not discuss the telephone system. There are other speakers who were allowed to discuss it. I will conclude by saying that the worker now knows he has been tricked. The only remedy he has is to bring about a change of Government, to elect Fianna Fáil in whom the people can have trust.

The Government can be indicted on two main issues, first, the failure to create new jobs, and a close second, prices. We have tens of thousands of people with second level education unable to get the jobs to which their qualifications would entitle them. We have them applying for jobs as petrol pump attendants and waitresses, jobs which traditionally were reserved for those without second level education. These sources of employment have now dried up for people without second level education and it makes an already serious unemployment problem desperate.

I cannot understand the Government's inept handling of job creation. We have had many announcements about new factories to be opened and the people expect substantiation of even some of the statements in this regard. Since the last general election, in my constituency ten industries have been closed down and none has been started. That is the greatest indictment that can be made of the Government's performance. There has been talk about the social welfare system, that people are being paid enormous sums of money to stay idle. The vast majority of the people drawing unemployment allowances would prefer to be working and to go up every Friday to draw their wages for an honest week's work. What the Government have done is to create a spongers' society. We have young people coming out of schools who have not had an opportunity to work. Surely that is the worst possible type of training for them.

When Fianna Fáil come back to power after the next general election I would hope their first objective would be to tackle the unemployment situation. They should not do it by bringing in multinationals and giving them huge grants and allowances to create very few jobs. Let us give it to our own people. If we see one or two people in an area capable of starting an industry which would give new jobs, having investigated them through the IDA, we should give the opportunity. They will not be like a lot of the multinationals who when the first little economic wind comes along pull up roots and disappear. Our own people would not do that. They have got to stay and make a go of it.

That is a commitment we are prepared to give to the people of Ireland: we will create employment in rural areas so that, among others, small farmers will have employment available on their own doorsteps, so that they will not have to go to the dole office and submit themselves to the investigation of means and so forth. After so many years of independence we should not now be reckoning social welfare increases instead of new jobs. We have heard various Ministers talking about the great job the Government have done for social welfare recipients, how much extra they are being given from the national cake.

Surely this is not something to boast about? A fraction of that money would not have to be spent if the Ministers responsible were doing their jobs properly. We must try to ensure that we do not have a situation in the rest of Ireland as happened in my constituency. In 1975, 18 boys completed their leaving certificate course but only one was successful in obtaining employment. The following year 20 boys were successful in the leaving certificate examination but none of them got a job. We cannot be complacent and pretend that everything is rosy when things like that are happening. We should not be pretending that the upturn has come about, that things are looking up and are marvellous again. The Minister may not like my figures but they are true.

The figures in relation to the number of industries that have closed down in my constituency are also true. The term of the National Coalition has been a disaster for the people in my constituency as far as employment is concerned and more people are going on the unemployment register. I do not know what the Government intend doing about this situation. They have not introduced any plan to create new jobs or give incentives to employers. In fact, we have arrived at the cynical stage in Cork whereby all the industries now being announced are called "Cork Examiner industries" because they never get beyond The Cork Examiner. They are announced with a great blare of trumpets but disappear into oblivion after a short while. We were told that the Bantry Harbour Commissioners would give great employment to the area but that project sank, without trace, into Bantry Harbour. There were never more people unemployed in Dunmanway than at present and the town of Kinsale which was a thriving place in 1973 now has 900 unemployed. The mere fact that a thriving town like Kinsale has 900 people unemployed is condemnation of the present Administration.

A lot of our unemployed could be engaged in productive employment if the Government adjusted their thinking. Local authorities have a lot of work to do and could absorb a big percentage of our unemployed. All that is required is an extra contribution to each local authority from the Exchequer. We should cut out the gimmicks like that which the Minister for Labour engaged in and get down to doing something solid to encourage existing industries and new ones to create more jobs. As well as giving a tax relief to the industries that export, a home industry that saves us importing goods should be given the same tax concessions. Any industry that reduces our bill for imports is the equivalent of an export industry and should be given the same incentives.

In relation to the setting up of industries to benefit small farmers we have a situation throughout west Cork where a number of farmers have been made bankrupt almost because their cattle failed the TB test. The Department of Agriculture have scant regard for their plight.

The Deputy cannot deal with that under this Bill.

It relates to taxation. A fund should be set up to help those farmers.

The Deputy is aware that expenditure is a matter for Estimates and taxation is a matter for the Finance Bill.

I accept that but my point is that if those people are forced to sell out because they cannot afford to meet the tremendous losses they have suffered the Exchequer will lose revenue because they will have no money to spend. They will not be buying petrol, diesel or cigarettes and the Revenue Commissioners will suffer a loss as a result. They could be kept in business if the Department made a small investment but this requires a decision by the Minister for Finance. He should ensure that sufficient money is made available to fully compensate those people who have suffered tremendous loss.

The Deputy wants more taxation?

No. I want a better administration of the existing taxation in expenditure.

The Chair is trying to keep the Deputy away from expenditure.

While I appreciate the view of the Chair, I do not think we can completely eliminate expenditure when discussing taxation. From a social point of view we must be concerned about the drift from rural areas. When people leave rural areas they create a great burden on the town or city they go to because extra services must be provided for them with the result that additional taxation has to be raised. In this regard I should like to ask what has been done to help the people who live on the islands off our coast. Most of them are not allowed to fish for salmon without a licence. Surely those people are entitled to carte blanche in relation to fishing and should not have to ask the Government for a licence to do so. The fact that they are keeping an important social fabric intact should be enough for the Government to ensure that they do not leave their area thereby creating an extra burden on the economy.

The only positive way we can tackle the unemployment situation is to trust and rely on our own people, to give them the wherewithal to create employment, to give them not alone grants but credit facilities. I have no doubt that we have enough people with business flair and imagination to meet and take up the slack that there is at the moment. Some of the best and most successful businessmen here have come from rural areas without any education, relatively speaking, without any management courses from the IMI, without business degrees from Harvard or anywhere else. They are just people with common sense and a flair for doing the right thing at the right time. They are the people we should be looking for and the people to whom we should be making funds available to create new jobs.

I am very concerned about the deliberate tactics of the Government in creating tension between urban and rural dwellers. I am referring specifically to the taxation of farmers. No farmer has any objection to paying his legitimate share of taxation. What the farmer objects to is being asked to pay more on a different system to the industrial worker. We all realise that agriculture is the basis of our economy and that where there is a thriving agricultural industry, there is a thriving economy. Surely, at present, anything that acts as a disincentive to increased agricultural output is a bad thing. I urge the Minister to adopt the notional system of taxation of farmers as a positive Government policy and to allow the full allowances that any businessman would be entitled to in relation to this system. There has been a calculated and malicious plan by the Government to force taxation by propaganda on to the farmers by making urban dwellers so irate about their position vis-á-vis the farmer that they create the demand for the taxation of farmers. We do not want another civil war. We have had enough in the past. We do not want this type of enmity between the industrial worker and the agricultural worker. With the adoption of the notional system, any problems that may be arising in this area will be finished.

There are a lot of statistics to show that so many houses have been built but there are also statistics available to show that the highest number unemployed in any industry is in the construction industry. What are the Government doing about bringing the construction worker back into full and gainful employment? If we were in office, we would first of all ensure that the SDA loans were increased sufficiently to make them realistic. We would ensure that people building their houses for the first time got a realistic grant and we would also increase the qualifying income way above what it is at present.

This material would be more appropriate to an Estimate.

If we are going to create new jobs, most of those jobs will have to occur in the construction industry.

What the Chair is objecting to is going into material more appropriate to an Estimate.

We never get the chance of discussing the Estimates.

This debate is supposed to be on the Finance Bill but most of it has not been relevant. If we got the debate on the Finance Bill finished, we might get down to the Estimates.

Would the Minister give a guarantee that we will have the Estimates when this debate is finished?

I do not see why not unless the Deputy wants to go on an early summer vacation.

I am trying to show that if we are to get ourselves out of this dilemma certain steps have to be taken and these are the steps I am suggesting should be taken to at least partially rectify the position. We should be thinking of a proper grants system for the reconstruction of houses. That would create employment in rural areas where it is needed. There are small builders and traders operating on their own who would benefit enormously in that type of scheme if it was available. Obviously, the Leas Cheann-Comhairle is getting a bit worried that I am straying from the Bill again.

I am just worried by the fact that I am trying to keep the debate on the lines that the Chair is supposed to keep it on.

I agree but it is very hard to discuss taxation without referring to these things. I am not going into detail, I am not mentioning sums of money or mentioning how these schemes will be implemented. I am just giving broad headings.

It is clear in any case that these are for Estimate discussion.

They may very well be but if I am to make suggestions about alleviating the unemployment situation I have to show how jobs can be created.

The Deputy will appreciate that the Chair must operate within certain limitations.

Another aspect of Government policy that is raising a lot of criticism is in relation to the health schemes, the health boards and the amount of money that the health boards have available. In my constituency the first so-called saving entered upon by the Southern Health Board was in getting rid of the transport system that was taking retarded children from west Cork into the city every day to be educated at special schools. The Minister may raise his eyes at that but it is true.

I am trying to examine its relevance to the Finance Bill.

The Minister will have some problem examining that. This was the first step that the Government took in introducing savings in relation to health matters. The mentally and physically handicapped were the first victims of the Scrooge-like Minister for Finance that we have at the moment.

That would be more appropriate to the Health Estimate than to the Finance Bill.

How can we discuss the Finance Bill without discussing these things? As I said, I am not going into any details about the schemes but I must refer to them if I am talking about taxation.

The Deputy ought not to argue with the Chair.

I am not arguing with the Chair. I am worried about the type of ruling being made by the Chair. This Finance Bill has given very little to the people. I will make another prediction. Despite the fanfares with which it was presented by the Minister and other Ministers we will not fight the next election on the Finance Bill. Quicker than anyone else the Minister has realised it has misfired, that the people have seen through it for what it is, and that the ordinary worker received no benefit whatever from it.

One must examine many aspects of this Finance Bill. For the next few moments I should like to look at it from the farmer's point of view. There is a tendency on the part of the Government to set townspeople against country people with the type of taxation they propose to introduce and have introduced over the past number of years. It is important for the Minister to know that agriculture is our major industry. Indeed, it is the very bed-rock of our economy. That point is being missed by the Minister and his colleagues in Government.

Agriculture must be developed. The development of agriculture is important to the development of the nation. I want to deal with the Government's approach to the taxation of farmers and the Minister's peculiar thinking in the section of this Bill dealing with it. The Minister laid great stress on the desirability of having people with similar incomes paying similar taxes. I agree with that. I do not think anybody could argue that point. The Minister then described the tax situation prior to the budget, when people with similar incomes were paying vastly different amounts of taxation. He emphasised the different tax paid by an industrial manager, a large farmer, a person using this country as a tax haven, a person whose income comes mainly from capital gains, and a self-employed person. He showed that there was a substantial difference in the amount of tax paid by those people.

The Minister inferred one of the villains of the piece was the large farmer because he had a sizeable income without a sizeable liability to income tax. He dwelt on that at length. Farmers were in an equitable position vis-á-vis the person paying PAYE but in the Finance Bill the Minister created a ridiculous position by making some members of the farming community liable to far more tax than people on PAYE. As one of the pressures for taxing farming profits, the Minister mentioned the National Economic and Social Council recommendation. In the Finance Bill the Minister decided that the main scheme for farming taxation as announced in the budget should stand with very minor modifications. I am interested not only in what the Minister made clear at the time of the budget, but also in what he did not make clear.

The notional threshold was dropped from £100 to £75. That seemed to indicate that a large proportion of farmers would be included in the net. At the same time, he increased drastically the multiplier and some members of the farming community were taxed on the double as a result of the lowering of the threshold and the increases in the multiplier. When he increased the multiplier he caused a new group of farmers to become liable for a great amount of tax, and he also increased vastly the tax on other farmers who have not got worthwhile holdings.

I should also like to mention small farmers who are involved in contracting. Contracting is a service. With the abolition of the £50 valuation for people who are self-employed, the contractor in the rural area is now liable for taxation on his contracting business. This is something that I hope the Minister will consider for the reasons I have outlined. Contractors are providing a very necessary service for small farmers.

By increasing the multiplier and reducing the threshold the Minister has proved that we were right 12 months ago in saying that it was only a matter of time before more and more members of the farming community would be brought into the taxation net. Many farmers now find themselves in this situation. It was not correct for the Minister to say, as he did 12 months ago, that only those farmers with a very high income would be brought within the taxation net. Many small and medium size farmers are now in the tax bracket.

I want to make it quite clear—and this has been stated time and time again by the various farming organisations—that farmers should, must and, indeed, will pay their fair share of taxation, but it must be an equitable level of taxation. There is no argument about this, and I want to emphasise this point. It must be a just tax based on their income, taking into account the part they can play in the development of the economy.

A recent report stated that farming output is down, although farming income is up. This is a very serious situation and it is important that any tax on farmers should not create a situation where there is a disincentive to further development. We must provide a greater incentive for increased production in agriculture generally. This can be done by providing the right incentives in the taxation system. The approach of the Government in the present system will not further this development and encourage an increase in agricultural output.

We must also realise that agriculture does not benefit the farming community alone; it benefits the whole community. With the present approach of the Government the farmers are being pushed from what the Minister used to call a position of "unfair advantage" to a position of grossly unfair disadvantage. It is true to say that during the past four years the Government have not developed the main business of the country which is, whether we like it or not, agriculture.

Over the years this industry was allowed to stagnate, and when it was realised that agricultural development was important to the nation it was allowed to develop slowly. Much of this development came from the farmers themselves and not by way of Government aids. It is fair to say that Government aid was sometimes misdirected and at times misplaced and such a situation cannot be allowed to continue. Perhaps in recent years this imbalance has improved somewhat, particularly since our entry to the EEC. Possibly there is now worthwhile concentration on agricultural advancement. It is important to note that farming is not just for the benefit of farmers or the many ancillary industries; it is to the benefit of the entire country because it is our principal source of income.

The thinking behind this year's budget and the aims and objectives outlined in this Finance Bill, and indeed in last year's, has been at times quite dangerous. Now that the farming community has commenced worthwhile development perhaps we are inclined to jump at the taxation benefits rather too quickly and heavily. It may be that the farmer will be taxed in such a way as to inhibit directly further investment in his farm. In my opinion the approach of the Government to the present taxation system will inhibit further investment with consequential damage to our economy. This is something the Minister must realise, and realise quickly. In any other industry reinvestment, enlargement and betterment of the industry incurs tax rebates. This is not the case in farming where the system of taxation is grossly unfair.

Farming is an industry that must develop. With inflation running at its present level farmers' incomes would need to be increased by at least 20 per cent per annum to keep that rate at a standstill. Indeed the inflation rate would need to be reduced considerably to improve farmers' incomes, that of ancillary industries and indeed for the benefit of the country at large. I am not advocating for a moment that we should not encourage industry generally, nor do I question that we should encourage foreign companies to come and set up industries here, nor indeed do I say that such companies should not be given every possible incentive. We should do everything possible to develop industry and attract foreign companies here. But we should not strangle our major industry, that of agriculture, with the type of taxation now being introduced.

The approach to the farming industry, responsible for 50 per cent of our national income, appears to be one of providing disincentives which will inhibit its future development. This country has been compared with other countries such as Holland and Germany where farming is greatly developed and where aids, financial and otherwise, are given by their governments for its development. We are told that as far as this industry is concerned we lag behind, that we are not developing our agriculture in as efficient a way as we should be or indeed as efficiently as those other countries are doing.

We must consider the Government's approach to farming taxation. They are saying to the farming community "We will hit you with this type of taxation because we want to cream off the top of your income and we are not prepared to allow you re-invest in your industry or develop it for the benefit of the nation as a whole." The result of this type of taxation will be a stunting of farming development and the Minister's approach will stunt it still further. If the Minister should have an opportunity again next year of imposing further taxation then agricultural development here will suffer very badly indeed.

Debate adjourned.
Top
Share