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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 18 May 1977

Vol. 299 No. 8

Women's Social Welfare Entitlements: Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That Dáil Éireann calls on the Minister for Social Welfare to eliminate discrimination against women in the area of eligibility for social welfare entitlements.
—(Deputy Andrews).

Last night I was dealing with a number of very important aspects of discrimination within the social welfare code. I pointed out that there were two areas where remedial measures were necessary and pressing. Shortly we will have on the labour market some 26,000 females who will not get social welfare benefits. As I pointed out last night, these people are being victimised. Because there are no job opportunities they cannot get the necessary 26 stamps. Perhaps the Minister could tell us where we will get the necessary 26 stamps for female school leavers for whom there are no job opportunities. This victimisation must be stopped. There must be equality between males and females.

These young girls at the most impressionable age, having devoted their energies and time to their education, now find themselves on the labour market with the dole queues overflowing and no hope whatsoever of obtaining the benefits for those who are unemployed. These young people must get some recognition. The job opportunities are not there. We have 150,000 on the labour market and with the ever-swelling dole queues we find that there is large-scale discrimination. In the Minister's reply I hope there will be some indication of relief for this section of the community.

A widow who becomes a breadwinner finds herself endeavouring to maintain a home and maintain a standard of living enjoyed by her family before her husband died. Through economic necessity she has to work for a living and if she has the misfortune to fall ill or become unemployed her social welfare benefits are halved. One must look at the aspect of discrimination in this sector. Deputy Andrews mentioned discrimination right through the whole code. The anti-discrimination legislation which has been passed by this House has been mere whitewashing because it was not backed up by realistic involvement by the Government.

The Deputy might now make his concluding remarks.

It is farcical to indicate now that there is concern where there has not been any concern. Shortly another 26,000 school leavers will find themselves on the labour market with little hope of employment and with no benefits whatsoever. How are they to exist? I ask the Minister to indicate what remedial measures it is proposed to take.

I was surprised and amazed that this motion was put down by Fianna Fáil Deputies because of their record in this field in 16 years of Government. As a matter of fact, I could hardly believe my eyes when I saw this motion on the Order Paper signed by a number of Fianna Fáil Deputies who had the Ministerial advantage during 16 years to implement some of the changes they now claim should be made. They want everything to be done in four years while their record over 16 years does not bear scrutiny.

When this Government came to power an employed girl who got married lost all her benefits and received a present of £10. This situation has been changed by this Government and now such a girl can continue to pay her social welfare contributions and have the benefit of the contributions she has made over the years to the social welfare system. That is one area of definite discrimination that has been removed by this Government. Single women in many cases left employment and went home to look after ageing parents. They missed many of the opportunities that would have been available to them and in the time of Fianna Fáil they had to go on their knees as it were, to the home assistance officer for help. These women are now entitled in their own right to social welfare benefits provided by this Government. This is something of which we who have supported this Government are proud. In the case of a non-contributory pension, a man got a pension but no allowance for his unfortunate wife. That is the record of Fianna Fáil. It could not be said that progress had been made when after 16 years of Fianna Fáil rule those discriminations remained in the social welfare code. Some of these inequities have been removed by this Government, though not all of them, but I am prepared to believe that a Government who have shown such commitment to the lower income groups and the less well-off in our society will continue to work in this direction until every vestige of discrimination is removed. I made it quite clear in this House in the early days of this Government that I would continue to support them as long as they were committed to the underprivileged. The record shows without doubt that they have fulfilled this commitment. That is the reason I supported the Government and will continue to do so.

We had crocodile tears shed here last evening about the fact that if an unfortunate widow working for her living falls ill she can draw only half the usual benefit. That was true in the time of Fianna Fáil and it is still true but under the Fianna Fáil Government such a widow had to pay full contributions to social welfare. Now her employer has to do that. There has been progress there, though not as much as I would like because all areas of discrimination should be removed. It is arrogant of Fianna Fáil to mention this subject when one looks at their record and considers the number of discriminatory elements which they removed during their period of office. They must admit—and they have done so through their speakers last evening —that many areas of discrimination have been removed by this Government and much progress has been made. In fact, the progress made in the past four years compares more than favourably with the progress made in the 16 years of Fianna Fáil administration.

In decisions concerning women generally, this Government have not neglected their duty. I freely admit that they have not eliminated all the areas of discrimination but any reasonable or fair-minded person will agree that they have made more progress in this area than any other Government in the history of this State. I believe that the present Administration will continue in that vein. This is the principal reason why I will support them. They have looked after the less well-off in our society and the underprivileged and that goes without saying.

When old age pensions for men and women were introduced in the early 1900's, the qualifying age was 70 years, and when Fianna Fáil left office four short years ago the qualifying age was still 70 years. Great progress there. Now after four years any woman reaching 67 years of age can get her old age pension, and it is far easier to get it now as far as the means test is concerned that it was when Fianna Fáil were in office. I do not want to labour this point because I do not think there is any doubt about the Government's record in this area. Fianna Fáil had many areas where they could criticise the Government, but discrimination in social welfare is definitely not one of them.

These improvements that have been brought about by the Government— and it was admitted by the two Opposition speakers last night that there were improvements in the areas of discrimination which we are discussing—were introduced during a period of serious economic recession. The Government of the day continued on eliminating areas of discrimination. For that reason, I am prepared to accept the word of the Parliamentary Secretary and the Minister for Social Welfare that it is his intention to proceed with the elimination of every in any legislation as well as in the social welfare code.

However, I would make a constructive suggestion to the Parliamentary Secretary in all sincerity. Married women who have lost their employment through redundancy and otherwise are finding it impossible to get unemployment benefit. There is a person in the social welfare system called a deciding officer who has the full authority to decide unemployment benefit should not be given to a married woman with a child in respect of which she can produce proof of having someone to look after it, and evidence of refusals from reputable firms to give her employment. I have asked the Parliamentary Secretary to ensure that the policy of the continuance of benefits on marriage will be carried out by his officials in the Department as he meant it to be. A married woman with one or two children, even though she is in benefit by having the necessary contributions, finds it impossible to get by this deciding officer who invariably says she is not available for work. There is an appeal to another officer; that is the final stroke, and no one has the power to change that. I do not want the Minister to take this power. It should be exercised by some official, but I believe the spirit in which this rule is being administered is not the spirit which was intended by this House, by the Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary.

The evolution of social welfare in this as in every other country has been progressive down through the years. In fact, not until after the last war did it begin to gain momentum in any country, even in the United States. In that respect our record of progress over those years compares favourably with that of any country in the world. Successive Ministers have expanded the code, improved the benefits, and there is still a good way to go.

We were pioneers in many fields. In 1933 when the State accepted responsibility for unemployed people, we were the only country in the world providing benefits for uninsured persons who were unemployed. When we introduced non-contributory widows' pensions I do not think there was any other country in the world paying such pensions at that time. I think we were a year ahead of any other country in introducing children's allowances. Sweden introduced them in the following year, if my memory serves me correctly. We are pioneers in many fields of social welfare.

Social welfare has improved as attitudes changed and as the public conscience became more perceptive to the needs of the weaker section and were prepared to accept that the redistribution of the national wealth was part of what should be an improving civilisation.

In relation to the resources available to us, we were well ahead of any other country in the expansion of our social welfare code down through the years. As I say, the first major step was in 1933 when we passed the Unemployment Assistance Act. Since then every Minister who has occupied the position of Minister for Social Welfare has to his credit some major improvement in social welfare and in spreading the net to bring in other necessitous people. At times it also became an auction of bidding between political parties as to who would do the most.

Coming up to the last election it was known that our membership of the EEC, to which we had just acceded, would place us in a position where we would not be required to provide in the budget £x million for agricultural subsidies. Each political party vied with the other as to how best we should apply it to social welfare. We spelled out our scheme well in advance of the elections and as a result the other two parties decided to form a Coalition.

At that time it was intended that that windfall would be a bonus for social welfare recipients. It was accepted by all that the basic rates they were then receiving were not adequate to give them a standard of living comparable to that enjoyed by the more fortunate in the community. That has not turned out to be as it should. The social welfare recipients got those extra benefits but, instead of them being a plus, they are merely helping them maintain the standard of living they enjoyed in 1973. The records published by the Central Statistics Office have borne this out. That is the position.

Spiralling increases have crippled the take home pay of every worker and social welfare recipient. That is the sad but true story of social welfare. If this Government think they can make propaganda out of the increases in social welfare there are two things they should bear in mind. Yesterday the Minister boasted about the increase in the amount now being paid in social welfare compared with what was paid in 1973 when we left office. The extended line of people drawing unemployment benefit and unemployment assistance has stretched social welfare payments and a very big increase is needed for these payments alone. The Minister boasted about the increase in the total amount paid by the Department of Social Welfare. Most of this increase is absorbed by the extended figures of unemployed for which, under the 1933 Act, he is responsible.

I have already referred to the other point, that is, that the money most individual recipients are receiving purchases the same amount as the 1973 social welfare payments. Inflation, unchecked, unbridled, with its consequential evils of unemployment and spiralling prices, has left us in that position. Nothing has been done to stabilise those increasing costs so that the social welfare recipient will get value for his £.

Take a pencil and paper and write down how much a widow gets every week. She is getting considerably more than she got in February, 1973 but calculate how much she must spend to keep body and soul together without buying any luxuries. She is fortunate if in any one week she does not have to buy a pair of shoes or an article of clothing which would take her entire pension. She must pay for fuel, electricity, gas, and every article that goes on her table. Why do we marvel at the increases we have given when we failed to stabilise the cost of living and give this money a purchasing value that would make this extra money a real bonanza for social welfare recipients?

Through the years every Minister for Social Welfare brought about some benefits. I had the pleasure of seeing some noted expansions to the social welfare code. I was always proud of the fact that I was Minister for Social Welfare when we gave free travel, free television licences and free electricity in certain cases. I challenge any Minister to match that record. I brought in the deserted wives' allowance. Listening to the Parliamentary Secretary yesterday, one would think that he had been responsible for it. I introduced the Occupational Injuries Act. I extended and amended the provision for widows. I extended for widows the dependants allowance to 21 years for the children who were still being educated or apprenticed. In our own way we all added to the social welfare code but, as the last speaker admitted, there are many gaps.

The public social conscience has changed dramatically in modern times, particularly in the second half of the century. We have seen fit to produce legislation covering sections of the people who, in the past, would not be worthy of assistance. Fortunately we now have a different outlook but there are still some loopholes. It is most surprising that this Government, who claim to have a social conscience, have resisted bringing in complete equality for women under the social welfare code.

The Minister for Finance ratted on the implementation of equal pay in the public service. Bearing this in mind, it is understandable that they have not brought social welfare payments completely into line. I should like to stress particularly the matter of post-marriage employment for insured women. I do this with a sincere appeal. In my time as Minister for Social Welfare it was necessary for a married woman to get at least 13 weeks, if not 26 weeks, work after marriage before she qualified—all other things being in order—for unemployment benefit.

The present Minister or Parliamentary Secretary changed that and it was a step in the right direction about which we have not heard a word said in praise on the opposite side of the House. I am saying it but with this qualification: he has provided in one of the social welfare amendment Bills passed since he came into power—we have had one or two Social Welfare Bills every year, I think, over the last 20 or 30 years—that it was not necessary for a woman to get post-marriage employment to qualify for post-marriage benefits. I have yet to find one woman qualifying under that scheme. Time and again I am told by the Minister or the Parliamentary Secretary that some do qualify but I must say in all honesty—I do not know the experience of Deputies on the opposite side of the House—that all the Deputies on these benches agree with me when I say that in hundreds of cases brought to our notice where a newly married woman applies for social welfare benefit she is turned down on every occasion by both the deciding officer and the appeals officer with absolute discrimination in most of the cases of which I am personally aware.

A woman is working; she has a job in an office or she is a receptionist or waitress in a hotel and marries the partner of her choice. She goes to live 40 miles from where she was working. She is ready and available for work. She applies for unemployment assistance when she cannot find work. She does not get it. If she has a baby she is immediately disqualified. Obviously, the consideration activating the mind of the appeals officer and the deciding officer is that her duty is to stay at home and look after the child and that she is not available because the child must be looked after. At the same time, we are told all sorts of provision must be made to allow married women to work.

I could enumerate specific cases for hours if time permitted. I saw young married women crying because they could not get the benefit of 15 years contributions which they had made before marriage. I hope that Fianna Fáil in office will, as a first priority, adopt a more lenient approach in that regard. The operation of that practice I have described would alone justify the motion we have put down here. I know a case of a girl who worked in an office in Donegal and married somebody near Fintown. She went back to work where she got temporary work after being married and eight or ten weeks after her first baby was born, although her mother-in-law lives in the house actually taking care of the child when she applied for unemployment benefit she was told she could not get it on the grounds that she was not available for work. She did not have a motor car to drive 30 miles every day to where she had previously worked and where they would be glad to have her. That is only one of many examples.

The 1933 Social Welfare Act provides that to qualify for unemployment assistance one must be capable of, available for and genuinely seeking work, having regard to age, physique, education, normal occupation and piace of residence. These are certainly sufficient reasons to justify qualifying people because of the suitability of the work they might get having regard to their normal occupations and yet our appeals officers do not see fit to grant them assistance or benefit. This is a disgrace and it is an area that should be examined immediately. Abolishing the requirement for post-marital employment was a futile exercise if the benefits are not made operative.

We must not blame appeals officers. I was long enough in Social Welfare to know, in relation to both doctors and appeals officers that they are the finest of men but it is the prevailing attitude in the Department that governs the decisions taken from time to time. Just now the claims of people and people already in receipt of benefit are being knocked by the hundred. Genuine cases of claimants and recipients are being knocked because there is a percentage of malingerers as there always has been. I do not know what is the position of a woman—I have a question down about it—whose doctor warns her that she must not work. She says she must live, that she can get no money and he says : "You are endangering your life; you may drop dead if you work". The social welfare doctor says she is fit to work and they cannot pay her. This is a case where doctors differ.

Let us not be too naïve and not admit that there are times when attitudes are different and the approach of officials is more lax than on other occasions. These periods of strict supervision seem to coincide with periods of stringency and difficult financial positions. That is not as it should be. I am sick talking about the attitude of social welfare investigation officers. I met a woman five days ago whose husband lost his pension while she was working as assistant housekeeper in the county home, St. Joseph's. When she became ill and had to go to hospital the pension was restored but the investigation officer called twice— once at 8.30 in the evening—to see if she had gone back to work. I presume that had she returned to work her husband's pension would have been cut again. The officer called in the evening because he suspected she was on the night shift. That is going a little too far and is not in keeping with a Department whose function it is to give benefits to people who are entitled to them. I am not attacking the individual who was carrying out his duty.

The amount of money being spent on social welfare at present is very big but the Department are getting a greater percentage from the contributions of employers and employees. The contribution rate was approximately one-third from the State, one-third from the employee and one-third from the employer. It was weighted in favour of the employee in that the employer was made to pay a little more but often when the fund fell short of the annual requirement the State contribution was raised to 35 per cent. That is being phased out now and much of the money the Government are boasting about is money that is being taken from the people in the form of insurance stamps. Allowing for the increase in the contributions and the millions extra being taken from the employers and employees by way of contribution the extra amount given has been eroded by way of unchecked inflation and the amount extra that is being paid as a result of 116,000 being unemployed. That is the position with regard to social welfare. They are the bare facts of the situation. There is very little left to boast about but I hope the spirit of the motion will not be lost on Members on the Government side and that they will see fit to support it particularly when there is such a clamour for equal rights. This is one area where there should be a complete elimination of any discrimination against one sex compared with another. I hope the terms of the motion will not fall on deaf ears and that Government Deputies will support it.

I am glad to be able to speak on this motion which calls on the Minister for Social Welfare to eliminate discrimination against women in the area of eligibility for social welfare entitlement. When considering such a motion one must examine the record of the Government since 1973 in the area of social welfare. In my view that record is first class. The Government have always been conscious of their responsibility to the people who have for one reason or another to claim social welfare. The limits were raised twice in one year and other improvements were made. This was done at a time when there was pressure for the money to be allocated to other areas. There was no dereliction with regard to social welfare. Discrimination may occur in some areas but the social welfare code is subject to scrutiny and change. It was changed during the term of the Government. For instance, the Government introduced an allowance for unmarried mothers, an important step towards helping those people. However, it has been the subject of criticism. The allowance for single women, something that was talked about by Fianna Fáil when in Government, was implemented by the Government. A person who, rather than go out to work looked after his or her aged parents, qualifies for an allowance. The Government saw the social problem that existed in this regard. When we are talking about social welfare we are talking about people in need and one must examine the areas of greatest need. That is what was in the mind of the Parliamentary Secretary when he was making changes. I have no doubt that had the Parliamentary Secretary more money he would have introduced greater changes. Given the money he got he did an excellent job.

It is a bit of a joke to talk about discrimination in this regard. The whole area of social welfare has been well thought out. A comprehensive policy has been introduced and there was no pulling back in spite of pressures from other areas and the fact that it might have been popular to pull back. The Government pressed ahead with their programme on social welfare. For that reason I was surprised to see a motion relating to social welfare on the Order Paper. The people who draw such benefits are well aware of the amount of the benefit in 1973 and what they qualify for under this Government. When the National Coalition took office there was a lot of discrimination against women. In this regard it should be remembered that it is not possible to eliminate discrimination overnight. A woman can now go to our courts and get a separation order and an attachment order can be made against the husband with the result that money is paid into the court. The legislation giving effect to that was badly needed. Prior to 1973 a man could sell the family home without his wife's consent but because of legislation introduced by the National Coalition that cannot happen now. That highlights the Government's sensitivity towards women and their rights. Examine that record and that of the Opposition over 16 years and see how they compare. The Opposition, in my view, did very little except perhaps create discrimination.

Whenever the general election takes place I have no doubt that this work will continue. Naturally there are areas in which we should like to see a little more done. Nobody contends that the system is perfect but one has to undertake a job in a planned way. That is what the Parliamentary Secretary set out to do in his four years in office. Indeed his record over the past four years, when examined, can be placed against any over the previous 16 years whether it be in the area of discrimination against women or general attitudes to social welfare. It is very important that a healthy attitude in this area should prevail. I should not like to be part of a Government that would encourage or want to have any hand in discriminating against women. Given another four or five years we shall continue with that work to eliminate fully discrimination in all fields resulting in real equality across the board.

The same comments can be made on the whole area of taxation. While it is not a social welfare problem nevertheless it is one the Government have examined and in respect of which they have taken action. Admittedly a lot of people would have liked them to have gone somewhat further. In a speech not so long ago I made a suggestion that that area be examined and that the tax-free allowances at present set off against the husband's income in respect of his wife and children should be paid directly to the wife, as are the children's allowance. While it is not an area in which the Parliamentary Secretary is involved, I have no doubt but that he would be concerned with activities that would help housewives and women in general, whether they be in his or other Government Departments.

Given the opportunity of another four years in office all these matters will be examined. For instance, when we assumed office payment of children's allowances was somewhat haphazard, generally going to the husband but we introduced legislation ensuring that the housewife would receive it. In addition, the amount of children's allowances was raised substantially, making it a meaningful income in the home each week.

The appearance of these nebulous motions on the Order Paper week after week merely highlights how bereft of ideas are the Opposition. I suppose one could say it is a tribute to the Government that they really have not any substantial criticism to offer of what we have been doing. But, because they have the facility of Private Members' Time they must be seen to go through the motion in an endeavour to show up the Government's weakness. I would have thought this motion under discussion would have been the last they would have chosen given the moneys that have been allocated to and spent in this area over the four years. Our record in the general area of social welfare will stand the test of time and the scrutiny of electors. I am not saying that the system is perfect; far from it. I am saying that the whole area of discrimination against women is being actively examined and pursued. It is that with which the general public will concern themselves —that we have not been unaware of the real problem obtaining when we assumed office. Rather have we ensured that the area of greatest need has been examined and moneys allocated, those of the unmarried mothers and single women's allowances. Mention should be made also of the very humane one, that of prisoners' dependents. Heretofore wives and children were literally thrown to the wolves when their husbands were incarcerated for a crime. Under this Government that no longer happens. Those are three positive areas of improvement. There are others, such as law reform and family law areas. Therefore, one must repudiate this motion for what it is—a cheap political gimmick with no substance or back-up.

At the outset may I say that there is no question in my mind but that unemployment assistance should be paid to girl school leavers on the same basis as it is paid to boys. I believe that intensely. I look to the Government, with their record in the area of discrimination against women and in the area of social welfare generally, to bring about that situation. I fully take the point that, but for the cost involved, this would have been implemented long ago. But cost must not remain an impediment to the implementation of this recommendation. I do not see a solution to the problem in voting for this motion against the Government because their record in this area has been good.

Last evening the mover of the motion made reference to the Commission on the Status of Women and in particular to the progress report on the implementation of the recommendations of the Commission in the report of the Commission on the Status of Women brought out by the Women's Representative Committee, of which I am chairman, in December, 1976. The impression given was that very many of those recommendations were not implemented. It is well known that, of the 15 recommendations, nine were implemented, three partially and three still remain to be implemented.

I should like to refer to the recommendations made and the steps taken by the Government to implement them. The first in the area of social welfare was recommendation No. 18 in the Report of the Commission on the Status of Women. That referred to the rate of unemployment and disability benefit payable to widows in receipt of the widow's contributory pension. They recommended that a widow should receive flat-rate unemployment and disability benefit at a rate not less than that payable to a married woman. As an interim measure they recommended that the social welfare contributions for a widow should be appropriately reduced while she is entitled to unemployment and disability benefit at half the ordinary rate. Action was taken on that measure on 2nd July, 1973. Women in employment were no longer liable for deductions from earnings in respect of social insurance. That was a positive step taken by the Government.

Recommendation No. 19 referred to married women in the social insurance scheme. It made the point that a woman should retain any accumulated title to social insurance benefit after marriage. Before this Government took office there was the situation that on marriage a woman lost her right to social welfare insurance and had to contribute 26 additional stamps to become eligible. This recommendation has been implemented by the Government and is another positive step in the right direction.

Recommendation No. 20 dealt with payment of unemployment insurance to women employed in agriculture or as private domestic servants. A ten-year social welfare contribution condition applied at that time to the payment of unemployment benefit in the case of women employed in agriculture and private domestic service. The case was made that this should be abolished. This recommendation has been implemented. Women employed as private domestic servants or in agriculture are eligible as from 2nd July, 1973, for unemployment benefit on the same conditions as apply to other female insured workers.

Recommendation No. 21 referred to women applicants for unemployment assistance. As an immediate measure women employed in agriculture or in private domestic service should be eligible to receive unemployment assistance when they have made 52 employment contributions irrespective of the rate at which the contributions are made. The recommendation has been implemented. In July, 1974, a further improvement was effected with the introduction of the single women's allowance for women over 58 years. Recommendation No. 22 referred to the payment of children's allowances to the mother rather than to the father. Again, the recommendation has been implemented.

Recommendation No. 23 referred to a housekeeper allowance payable with unemployment or disability benefit or with unemployment assistance. It stated that the housekeeper allowance at present payable to single men and widowers with dependent children during periods when they are in receipt of unemployment or disability benefit or unemployment assistance should be extended to single women and widows in similar circumstances. This facility was extended to women in April, 1977, thus removing another blatant area of discrimination against women.

Recommendation No. 24 referred to the grant of credited contributions to persons in respect of whom a prescribed female relative allowance is payable. This recommendation has been implemented. Recommendation No. 25 referred to the non-contributory widow's pension. It stated that consideration should be given to the introduction of a compulsory widows' and orphans' pension scheme for persons outside the present compulsory insurance category. It also stated that in the meantime a scheme to be contributed to on a voluntary basis by such persons should be introduced and every effort should be made to keep the contributions for the scheme as low as possible. This is one of the recommendations that has not been implemented so far.

Recommendation No. 26 referred to special assistance for widows on widowhood. This is a delicate area and it needed attention. This recommendation was partially implemented with the extension of the husband's benefits in respect of either disability or unemployment benefit for six weeks after the death. Recommendation No. 28 referred to deserted wives. When this Government took office and when the commission were reporting there was no allowance for deserted wives. The recommendation has been implemented.

Recommendation No. 29 dealt with wives of prisoners. When the Government took office and when the commission reported there was no allowance for dependants of people committed to prison. A new scheme of welfare assistance and an extension of the allowance has been another positive step in this area by the Government.

Recommendation No. 30 dealt with unmarried mothers. The commission recommended that an unmarried mother who keeps her child should be entitled to a social welfare allowance at the same rate and on the same conditions that apply to a deserted wife, for a period of not less than one year after the birth of the child. Under the Social Welfare Act, 1973, an unmarried mother is entitled with effect from 2nd July, 1973, to a means tested allowance which is payable until the child is 18 years, or 21 years if the child remains in full-time education. This recommendation has been fully implemented. Recommendation No. 31 referred to women retiring before 65 years of age. A new social welfare allowance has been introduced providing for allowance to women at the age of 58 years. This partially implements the recommendation made by the Commission on the Status of Women.

Recommendation No. 32 dealt with adjustments in social welfare allowances on the introduction of equal pay and the payment of housekeeper allowances to wives who cannot go out to work because they are obliged to care for children under five years of age. This recommendation has not been implemented and neither has recommendation No. 40. That recommendation stated that steps should be taken and any necessary legislation enacted at the earliest opportunity to ensure that divorced wives should be treated for social welfare purposes not less favourably than if they had remained deserted wives.

On the recommendations made in the area of social welfare this Government have a very good record and because of that record we may take it that the remaining three recommendations will be seriously considered by them. They have taken positive steps to eliminate the discrimination that existed. Undoubtedly discrimination still exists in the area of unemployment assistance and there is no defence. Neither the Parliamentary Secretary nor anybody else will defend it. However, on their record to date we can look to the Government to remove any discrimination that still exists. The answer does not lie in voting against a Government that has such a good record in this area.

There are many other improvements we could look for. For instance, we could look for extension of free electricity and other facilities for widows and undoubtedly there are many other facilities that may be lacking. However, as it has been an issue in this debate, the record of the Government in implementing the recommendations in the Report of the Commission on the Status of Women has been good and we can depend on them to remove the few remaining areas of discrimination that still exist.

Deputy Haughey rose.

Is the Deputy concluding on the motion?

No. My colleague, Deputy Andrews, I understand, has 15 minutes. I want to avail of the next three minutes, with your permission, which you never fail to afford me.

The Deputy has four minutes.

He can have longer if he wishes.

Will the Deputy make the same offer to me?

The Parliamentary Secretary did not take the time available to him.

I want to avail of the presentation of this motion to make what I hope are comments of a fundamental nature. I feel sure, from what Deputy Desmond said, that there is no doubt that she will support the motion because it is very simple and straightforward. It merely asks the Minister for Social Welfare to eliminate discriminations against women in the area of eligibility for social welfare entitlements. I know, from what Deputy Desmond said, that she supports entirely the principles enshrined in the motion. If the Parliamentary Secretary does not accept the motion at least Deputy Desmond will vote for it.

The Deputy is still underestimating the intelligence of women.

I would not expect her to vote against it. I am quite clear, from what she has said so sincerely and so seriously, that she will vote for the motion. Our motion is in line with our whole approach and philosophy in this area. We did not come to this area of the rights of women today or yesterday. We have a good history in relation to the rights of women. It was a Fianna Fáil Government and I, as Minister for Finance, who set up the Commission on the Status of Women. I selected Theckla Beere to be woman chairman of that commission.

I do not want to interrupt the Deputy but it was Fianna Fáil who introduced every element of discrimination in the social welfare code.

If the Parliamentary Secretary does not want to interrupt me let him not do so. Will he let me have my few minutes? It is totally unacceptable in this modern age that there should be any discrimination against women in any areas. Women are, traditionally and historically, militated against in the eyes of the law. We began a process of eliminating discrimination against women in that area ten years ago. If the Parliamentary Secretary wants to go back over the record he will see that we published a White Paper on law reform through the Department of Justice as far back as 1960, setting out a comprehensive programme of law reform aimed at eliminating from our legal system the many absurd, anachronistic and discriminatory things in the law against women.

Our philosophy and outlook on this matter is straightforward. We believe that every citizen, whether it be a man or woman, should be equal before the law and should be equal in every way in the implementation of the law— in other words, equal in every aspect of public administration. It might take time to work towards perfection in every area, but Fianna Fáil began this process in modern Irish society. In putting down this motion we are seeking to do nothing more than follow it through in an important and significant area. In many areas of the law discriminatory aspects still remain.

It will be our intention, when we have responsibility again for those matters, to eliminate the last of them. Here is one area in which we suggest there should be immediate action. It is not a question of law reform and there are no great legislative difficulties involved. It is simply a matter of administration. It is a matter entirely within the competence and the jurisdiction of the Parliamentary Secretary in the administrative sphere to eliminate those unacceptable discriminations which still exist in the social welfare system and which have been dealt with very fairly by Deputy Desmond.

The elimination of the remaining discriminatory elements in the social welfare code will cost money. Perhaps, as far as the Parliamentary Secretary is concerned, that is the restraining factor. I suggest to him that the argument "We would like to do this, we are in favour of doing this but it will cost money and we have not got it available at present is no longer acceptable. If the thing is right, if there is a scheme introduced, it should be universally applicable or not introduced at all. I believe it is not justifiable to say that in principle this is discriminatory but as we have not got the money we will just carry on for the moment and rectify it as soon as we possibly can.

The argument that elimination of discrimination would be expensive is not acceptable in a modern community. The cost involved in these things must be met because as long as any scheme has any discriminatory aspects to it, it should be unacceptable to us. I believe this is a very limited area, it is entirely within the administrative conscience of the Parliamentary Secretary to do and I cannot see how he cannot accept our motion and not plead time, expense or any other excuse for not accepting it. He should then proceed to get rid of those discriminatory elements in the social welfare code because in this modern age they should not be there.

I was appalled and disappointed, too, to hear Deputy O'Brien describe this motion as nebulous and, by implication, unimportant. Such an attitude is an outrage against the women who are discriminated against by the Government. However, Deputy O'Brien's statement can be compared with a statement made by the Minister for Fisheries who said that one man in employment is worth six women. That is the type of thinking that pervades the Fine Gael side of the Coalition. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Social Welfare did not find it possible to utilise the full time to which he was entitled to reply to my 40-minute contribution at the outset.

I concentrate on quality.

The Parliamentary Secretary engaged in a diatribe and in a series of statements that were couched in vulgar abuse. For instance, he took exception to my mentioning the Association of Irish Widows and he boasted that immediately after the budget he had had a letter of commendation from that respected association. I wonder whether he has received any letter from them in the recent past. I must admit that I did not receive from them a letter on the lines of that which the Parliamentary Secretary indicated he had received.

He will probably be receiving a civil bill from them.

However, I received a number of letters from Irish widows who may or may not be members of that association and the general trend of those letters is that widows are being treated badly in the present economic circumstances and that the value of their benefits have been totally eroded between the time of the announcement of the budget increases and their coming into operation on April 1. I send some of the letters to the Department of Social Welfare and I always receive courteous replies.

Deputy Bermingham, in a sincere speech, supported my opening contribution when he enumerated example after example of discrimination against women and in particular against widows. He mentioned discrimination against married women also. The Parliamentary Secretary, while abusing me for referring to the Association of Widows, did not deal with the question of discrimination against widows in that association. Indeed, he did not deal with the question of discrimination against women generally under the social welfare code and he studiously avoided any mention of the plight of the female school leaver. However, Deputy Mrs. Desmond made a strong plea on their behalf.

School leavers generally are being discriminated against.

All school leavers are discriminated against in the sense that they are being denied job opportunities but at least the male school leaver has a few quid in his pocket. In the case of his female counterpart she has neither a job or a bob.

It is shocking.

The Parliamentary Secretary held out no hope for these unfortunate people. But can he, perhaps in a speech during the weekend, make up for his very serious error in not referring to the female school leaver by giving her some hope for the future? The Parliamentary Secretary accused me of being wrong in one instance. I pointed out in relation to the alleged error on my part that the scheme concerned is still riddled with anomalies. He made no mention of the much-vaunted abandonment of home assistance or of the introduction of social welfare supplementary allowances legislation which was intended to be put into effect in June, 1976. At the time of the passing of the relevant Act, the Parliamentary Secretary indulged in such phrases as "the stigma of home assistance must go", "the smell of the workhouse must be abandoned" and so on. Can he say that at some future time, perhaps in the next couple of weeks, this Act will be brought into effect. It was our intention in Government to introduce similar legislation. Its immediate implementation is necessary in order to replace home assistance.

The home assistance scheme served its purpose in the past but it no longer can provide the necessary money to ensure the survival of those who must have recourse to such help. The smell of the workhouse is still about, but this is no reflection on those who operate the scheme. On behalf of all those men and women in receipt of home assistance we make a special plea that the supplementary welfare allowances legislation be put into effect as a matter of urgency. For our part we will give the Parliamentary Secretary every support in that regard.

The last speaker mentioned the Commission on the Status of Women. We admit that some of the recommendations of that commission have been implemented.

The Deputy's time has expired.

Question put.
The Dáil divided : Tá, 61; Níl, 68.

  • Allen, Lorcan.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Barrett, Sylvester.
  • Blaney, Neil T.
  • Brady, Philip A.
  • Brennan, Joseph.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Brosnan, Seán.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Brugha, Ruairí.
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Callanan, John.
  • Calleary, Seán.
  • Carter, Frank.
  • Collins, Gerard.
  • Connolly, Gerard.
  • Crinion, Brendan.
  • Cronin, Jerry.
  • Crowley, Flor.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • Davern, Noel.
  • de Valera, Vivion.
  • Dowling, Joe.
  • Fahey, Jackie.
  • Farrell, Joseph.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Fitzgerald, Gene.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Dublin Central).
  • French, Seán.
  • Gallagher, Denis.
  • Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
  • Gibbons, Hugh.
  • Gibbons, James.
  • Gogan, Richard P.
  • Haughey, Charles.
  • Healy, Augustine A.
  • Herbert, Michael.
  • Hussey, Thomas.
  • Keaveney, Paddy.
  • Kenneally, William.
  • Kitt, Michael P.
  • Lalor, Patrick J.
  • Leonard, James.
  • Loughnane, William.
  • Lynch, Celia.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacSharry, Ray.
  • Meaney, Tom.
  • Moore, Seán.
  • Murphy, Ciarán.
  • Nolan, Thomas.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • O'Connor, Timothy.
  • O'Kennedy, Michael.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • O'Malley, Desmond.
  • Power, Patrick.
  • Timmons, Eugene.
  • Tunney, Jim.
  • Walsh, Seán.
  • Wilson, John P.

Níl

  • Barry, Peter.
  • Barry, Richard.
  • Begley, Michael.
  • Belton, Luke.
  • Belton, Paddy.
  • Bermingham, Joseph.
  • Bruton, John.
  • Burke, Joan T.
  • Burke, Liam.
  • Byrne, Hugh.
  • Clinton, Mark A.
  • Cluskey, Frank.
  • Collins, Edward.
  • Conlan, John F.
  • Coogan, Fintan.
  • Cooney, Patrick M.
  • Corish, Brendan.
  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Costello, Declan.
  • Coughlan, Stephen.
  • Creed, Donal.
  • Crotty, Kieran.
  • Cruise-O'Brien, Conor.
  • Desmond, Barry.
  • Desmond, Eileen.
  • Dockrell, Henry P.
  • Donegan, Patrick S.
  • Donnellan, John.
  • Dunne, Thomas.
  • Enright, Thomas.
  • Esmonde, John G.
  • Finn, Martin.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Cavan).
  • Flanagan, Oliver J.
  • Gilhawley, Eugene.
  • Governey, Desmond.
  • Griffin, Brendan.
  • Halligan, Brendan.
  • Harte, Patrick D.
  • Hegarty, Patrick.
  • Hogan O'Higgins, Brigid.
  • Jones, Denis F.
  • Kavanagh, Liam.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • Kyne, Thomas A.
  • L'Estrange, Gerald.
  • Lynch, Gerard.
  • McDonald, Charles B.
  • McLaughlin, Joseph.
  • McMahon, Larry.
  • Malone, Patrick.
  • Murphy, Michael P.
  • O'Brien, Fergus.
  • O'Connell, John.
  • O'Donnell, Tom.
  • O'Leary, Michael.
  • O'Sullivan, John L.
  • Pattison, Séamus.
  • Reynolds, Patrick J.
  • Ryan, John J.
  • Ryan, Richie.
  • Spring, Dan.
  • Staunton, Myles.
  • Taylor, Frank.
  • Thornley, David.
  • Timmins, Godfrey.
  • Toal, Brendan.
  • Tully, James.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Lalor and Browne; Níl, Deputies Begley and B. Desmond.
Question declared lost.
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