asked the Minister for Health the organisations, including nursing organisations with a special interest in psychiatry, whom he has consulted in the course of preparing new legislation in relation to the mental health laws.
23.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Mental Health Laws.
22.
asked the Minister for Health why, in view of the nature of the issues involved, why he has decided not to submit for consideration a White Paper on the subject of future laws in relation to this country's psychiatric services.
I propose, with the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, to take Questions Nos. 22 and 23 together. I have not yet had consultations with any organisations in regard to the proposed amendment of existing mental treatment legislation but I intend having consultations with the main professional groups involved, including psychiatric nurses, in the near future.
I decided that the White Paper procedure was not appropriate for this legislation but I will bring forward a discussion document soon on the general structure and administration of the psychiatric services.
What is the difference between the discussion document the Minister has in mind and the White Paper? Are they not alike? In view of the fact that the law is about 30 years old, and I suppose the law he brings in will last another 30 years into the next century, would he not agree that there should be the widest possible discussion not only with the representative bodies but also with the public and that a White Paper is desirable?
The Deputy will appreciate that there are two things involved here, one is the legislation and the other is the structure and the administration of the services. I decided to proceed, mainly in the interest of expedition, with the legislation separately. When my legislative proposals are published a discussion process will take place on the actual proposals as published in the legislation. I propose, side by side with that, to publish a document reviewing the structure of the services, their administration and likely trends, improvements and so on.
This seems rather confusing. I do not wish to hold the Minister up in any way—I am sure he knows this—but surely the provision of a discussion document, listening to the consequences of that discussion and then making up his mind as to the legislative proposals, is putting the cart before the horse?
I understand that the Deputy knows more about this area technically than I do but I understand that what is required legislatively is fairly simple, straightforward and pretty much agreed by most people concerned. I intend to proceed with the legislation in the normal way. There is a whole area separate from that of administrative improvements and structural matters which can be the subject of discussion, maybe for a considerably extended period. It seems to me that both of these things should not necessarily be bound up together but could proceed separately.
I am prepared to accept the Minister's bona fides on this. There is the very important question of the change that the thymoleptic drugs have made. Custodial care is much less important than it used to be. There is also the question of the legal rights and civil rights of individuals. Does the Minister not propose to have discussions with the various interested bodies on these matters? I am thinking about temporary commitment and the right of an individual medical man to commit people and keep them there endlessly and so on. Will that be in the legislation or in the discussion document?
It will be in the legislation.
What advice has the Minister taken on this matter?
As broad a spectrum of advice as possible in advance of the finalisation of the legislation but not through the White Paper procedure.
Question No. 24.
When will it be possible to discuss the discussion document?
The legislation?
The discussion document.
I have not given permission to the Deputy to ask a question.
I did not ask a supplementary on this until now. It is a very important matter.
The Deputy who put down the question has asked four supplementaries.
I agree that you are a man of wisdom but you do not hold the monopoly of wisdom.
My decision goes now.
The matter is of urgent importance. When does the Minister anticipate having a discussion on the discussion document?
I hope to bring the discussion document before our new committee as soon as they are established. It will be a good document to start work on.