Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 31 Jan 1978

Vol. 303 No. 1

Shannon Free Airport Development Company Limited (Amendment) Bill, 1977: Second Stage.

Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy (Mr. O'Malley)

I move:

"That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

The principal purpose of the Bill is to provide for the further financing of the Shannon Free Airport Development Company Limited by extending the limits contained in the current legislation.

Specifically, the Bill provides for: (1) an increase from £25 million to £45 million in the aggregate of the amounts which the Minister for Finance may subscribe in taking up shares of the company; (2) an increase from £17 million to £22 million in the limit on the issue of repayable advances by the Minister for Finance for the provision of housing and community services at Shannon; and (3) an increase from £17 million to £22 million in the aggregate amount of grant-in-aid, voted annually, which may be made to the company.

The Bill also provides that the level of remuneration and allowances of the chief officer of the company shall be subject to my approval given with the consent of the Minister for the Public Service.

Share capital subscribed to the company is used for capital expenditure on the Industrial Estate at Shannon and in the mid-west region. The main headings of expenditure are land acquisition, construction of factories and ancillary works. A small proportion of share capital is expended on tourism projects of a capital nature. Repayable advances are used for capital expenditure on housing and community services at Shannon. The houses are provided by the company to rent or to purchase and developed sites are also made available for private house-building. The grant-in-aid moneys are applied towards meeting the company's running expenses and providing financial assistance to industries at Shannon. A substantial part of the company's running expenses relate to tourism promotion. Expenditure in this area is met by a special grant-in-aid for which the Minister for Tourism and Transport is accountable but which, nevertheless, comes within the overall limit now being amended by section 3 of this Bill.

Expenditure by the company under these three headings at 31 December 1977 was as follows: Share capital. £25,000,000; Repayable advances, £15,281,500; Grant-in-aid, £13,841,150.

The existing limit for share capital has already been reached and there are no funds available under this heading to meet current requirements and to enable the company to continue with their capital programme. It is, therefore, a matter of urgency that the statutory limits be now increased. On the basis of estimates of expenditure available the proposed new limits will be reached by about the end of 1980.

The type of control proposed in section 5 in relation to the remuneration of the chief executive of the company is now being inserted in relevant statutes governing the different State companies as the opportunity arises. The power to control the chief executive's salary is already contained in the memorandum and articles of association of the company; so in fact the new provision will not affect the control operating at present but will merely give it statutory backing.

The last occasion on which legislation increasing the company's expenditure limits was enacted was in July, 1974. As in the case of the rest of the country the past three-and-a-half years have been difficult ones for both Shannon and the mid-west region. Employment in the Shannon Industrial Estate declined by about 300 during 1975. The level of employment recovered, however, during 1976 and 1977 and now stands at 4,362, an increase of over 500 on the 1975 level. Shannon's export surplus has increased consistently during the period under review. The estimated surplus for 1977 is £50 million or over twice the 1974 figure.

The population of Shannon town has grown steadily over the period and now stands at 8,023. I note with satisfaction that there is a continuing increase in the number of Shannon residents who are opting to purchase their houses under the company's housing mortgage scheme. This trend enhances the stability of the town and provides a firm base for further progress.

Airport traffic developed satisfactorily over the period. A record level of passenger traffic through Shannon was achieved last year. Total passenger traffic in 1977 exceeded 1,170,000 of whom over 550,000 were terminal passengers. The tourism activities of the company also recorded satisfactory progress during the past three years.

Although the original establishment of the company arose from the need to secure the future of Shannon Airport, the company have had, since 1968, the function of promoting the industrial development of the mid-west region in association with the IDA. The international recession of 1974-75 cost the region about 2,200 industrial jobs, mainly in the Limerick/Shannon area. The region would have recovered those jobs fully by the end of 1977 but for the closure of the Ferenka factory. Ferenka's closure resulted in a net loss of about 450 jobs in 1977 for the region as a whole. The company are, however, confident that 1978 will see a return to steady industrial growth because of (a) the number of job approvals— 3,900—in 1977 which will start to come on stream in 1978-79; and (b) the number of jobs—3,350—which remain to be established from industrial projects approved prior to 1977. In addition, new industry inquiries are encouraging, running at about 25 per cent above last year's levels. Based on these considerations the company expect that there will be a net increase in industrial jobs in the region of about 1,500 in 1978.

The news of the Ferenka closure over-shadowed the announcement of three major new industrial developments of Limerick and the region— Alcan, Beechams and Le Jouet Francais, involving a total job potential of 1,450 and planned fixed asset investment of about £270 million. The unprecedented level of job loss resulting from the Ferenka closure and the serious impact that it is having on the Limerick area is the reason why the Government decided to designate Limerick city and some adjoining areas for higher maximum levels of industrial grants. The IDA and SFADCo are exploring all possibilities in regard to getting a replacement firm for Ferenka but it is too early to indicate what the outcome of these efforts will be.

Alcan's decision to proceed with the establishment of an alumina plant at Aughinish has demonstrated the industrial potential of the Shannon estuary. SFADCo and IDA will continue to promote estuary locations for suitable new industry.

At this stage, I think it is appropriate that I should refer to the recent retirement from the chairmanship— but happily not from the board—of SFADCo of Mr. Brendan O'Regan. Mr. O'Regan's outstanding record of public service spans a period of 30 years. More than anyone he is closely identified with SFADCo, of which he had been chairman from its establishment in 1959. My regret that Mr. O'Regan found it necessary to relinquish the chairmanship is eased by the fact that his guidance will remain available to the board who are now about to embark upon new tasks.

I would like to tell the House that I am at present in consultation with the board of SFADCo with a view to reorienting and giving a new dimension and thrust to their work, particularly in relation to industrial development. My approach to this has been from two standpoints. First, I considered that the company have to a considerable extent achieved their original objective—to secure the future of Shannon Airport—and that accordingly the considerable flair for innovation and development work that they have shown on a number of fronts since 1959 might be turned in a new direction. Secondly, it has long been one of my concerns that the tone and balance of our industrial structure, and social and demographic reasons likewise, required that we should seek to strengthen greatly the position of indigenous Irish industry, especially small industry. We must, of course, continue and indeed intensify for many years to come our efforts to attract here new manufacturing industry that is externally financed and controlled. Industry of this kind is very welcome and, indeed, one of our problems is that we cannot get enough of it but the very success that we have in attracting such industry means that unless we take concurrent steps to develop domestic industry to a greater extent, our industrial structure will get out of balance and in the long term this could pose difficulties for us. The need to strengthen indigenous Irish industry, especially small domestic industry, was one of the recurrent themes in the recent debates in the Dáil and the Seanad leading to the enactment of the Industrial Development Act, 1977.

With these considerations in mind I have suggested to the board of SFADCo that the company should assume responsibility for the development of small indigenous industry in the mid-west region in a special and intensive way not hitherto attempted in this country. I see this as a pilot exercise, the results of which would be evaluated at the end of 18 months or two years when decisions would be taken about the extension of such an intensive drive to other regions. The board of SFADCo have confirmed their readiness to proceed in the direction I have indicated but the detailed planning remains to be done. This will involve among other things further consultations between my Department and the Department of Economic Planning and Development, and between SFADCo and the IDA. At this stage it would be premature for me to attempt to go into detail, but, for example, it is envisaged that the county development officers in the mid-west region would be actively involved in the new arrangements relating to small industry.

In order that SFADCo will be free to concentrate all their energies on this new task in relation to indigenous small industry, I am arranging that the IDA will resume full responsibility for industry other than small industry in the mid-west region. I recommend the Bill for the approval of the House.

Mr. Kelly

This party welcome and support this Bill and I join the Minister in commending it to the House. I should like to say in a general way that we accept and are glad to say that SFADCo have become during almost 20 years of existence a model of a dynamic regional development agency. It is right to say, and I was glad to hear the Minister make a reference in this direction, that this is very largely due to the dedication of their personnel. I am sure the Minister does not wish to devalue the efforts of others but he is quite right in singling out the dedication of Mr. O'Regan, who is a man of dedication not merely to economic development in his own part of Ireland but who sees also the great responsibility which rests on Irish people to do something for those who are less well off. The success of SFADCo has been to a great extent their own personal story. Everyone in this House wishes them well.

Apart from their main function with which I will deal briefly in a moment, there are two things in regard to SFADCo which I would like to underline because I have had some personal contact with them. One is the very intelligent and sophisticated interest which SFADCo have shown in tourism development of the area for which they are responsible. In 1975 I remember when Mr. John Hunt was finding some difficulty in getting any kind of official, or enough official, help and backing for his very interesting project in establishing a folk museum near Bunratty in Clare, SFADCo were of constant assistance to him. I do not want to minimise the help of others, such as Bord Fáilte, but it was in no small part the result of SFADCo's efforts that the folk museum is now well on the way to being completed according to the late Mr. Hunt's wishes. It does not meet the approval of every archaeologist academic but, on any ordinary standard, it is a very important addition to the area touristically and culturally. It does what the late Mr. Hunt wanted it to do in giving people an idea of how their ordinary ancestors, not just kings and queens, such as they were, lived in the Iron Age, in the Middle Ages and up to the dawn of modern times.

Mr. Hunt had a unique collection, unrivalled in any museum in the country. It was an original collection of furniture and implements and he supplemented it with reproductions of various kinds and his complex, as I am sure the Minister and Deputy O'Donnell will agree, is a major asset to the area. It is one which would not normally be associated in the first instance with a body like SFADCo which had a very narrow original basis. It is a tribute to the farsightedness and intelligence of that body that it has been able to help by taking a keen and leading interest in the promotion of cultural life in the area for which it is responsible. I had the pleasure of opening the complex in 1975. I had to cut through a branch securing the entrance with a reproduction bronze sword. The branch had already been nine-tenths sawn through before I struck it with the sword so the actual task was that much simpler.

The interest shown by the SFADCo in the developing areas of the world in which unfortunate people are starving has also been remarkable. This, too, is to be associated with the personality of the retiring chairman and some other members of the company who have taken a keen and genuine personal interest in the effort to spread around the world as best they can the kind of skills we ourselves had to develop, not, of course, in anything as miserable as the conditions of these developing countries but which nonetheless are not altogether beyond comparison. We had to lift ourselves up by our boot straps and develop ideas, skills and competences which, in 1922, nobody had, and we are therefore in a good position—not materially, perhaps, but in terms of instruction and advice—to assist countries which may wish to follow along the same paths as ourselves.

When I was Parliamentary Secretary in the Department of Foreign Affairs I had a good deal of contact with semi-State bodies and SFADCo was a model of what a body of this sort should be living up to from the point of view of the responsibilities many of us do not discharge in regard to the developing world. I met groups of people repeatedly from all over the developing world who were attending at Shannon in order to receive a course of instruction from SFADCo in the operation of customs free zones, a form of development appropriate to many of these developing countries and something in which many of them are very interested.

It is not an exaggeration to say that this company is a kind of symbol of regeneration. It is not the only one but it is a very conspicuous one. That regeneration has, I think, been very much along the right lines. It has been characterised by decentralisation, by the very striking growth of a new town, the first ever undertaken here and one which has been a success. It has been associated with the growth of community sentiment. It has been associated with overthrowing and rendering ridiculous old ideas to the effect that underdeveloped areas in the west could not be made viable and could not be improved very much and should, therefore, be left to the grouse shooters. It has also been a model of regeneration in regard to our responsibility towards the less fortunate parts of the world and we on this side wish the company all possible success and are glad to support the Bill.

There are just a few things I want to mention now. I see the Minister proposes to base responsibility for future industrial development in this region on the criterion of size. His idea of getting SFADCo to see what can be done through the medium of small home-based industries is a very good idea. I hope it will work well. We will certainly follow it with great interest. I hope it will be associated with a maximum effort to get people to do things for themselves individually and in their communities rather than encourage them to turn themselves into lobbies sending deputations to Dublin for the placing of this or that when they might very well be encouraged to do something for themselves. We wish all possible success to this project.

I am not entirely happy with the Minister's suggestion in regard to the taking over of large-scale industrial developments by the IDA and I wonder whether SFADCo are entirely happy with it. If the Minister assures me they are, that will be that, but I would be surprised if SFADCo, who made such headway in the establishment of large and not institutionalised industry, which necessarily means some of their officials must have built their careers around the construction and maintenance of such industry, are happy at being deprived of an arm of activity for what appear to be the best of reasons. The Minister spoke about readiness. Is it, I wonder, a somewhat reluctant readiness? I may be reading something into what the Minister said that was not there but I would not be happy were the Minister to deprive SFADCo of a function against their own wishes.

I am a bit surprised, too, when the Minister speaks about further consultations in regard to this division of function in his Department and the Department of Economic Planning and Development and SFADCo and the IDA that we have heard nothing of this famous industrial development consortium. I have already explained to the House that this is not a consortium, that it will not have any money to risk, that it will not be a business enterprise in the sense in which the word "consortium" has been used up to now. If the Minister wishes to call a co-ordinating committee a consortium he has as much right as anybody else to extend the English language. I am surprised that this consortium, which was one of the four main planks in regard to economic recovery and in regard to employment creation in the Fianna Fáil manifesto, which was supposed to co-ordinate and monitor industrial progress and development, was not mentioned in what is, as far as I can see from the Minister's short speech, quite a major development in the economy of this region. The division of responsibilities, on the criterion and size, between SFADCo and the IDA is important. I would have thought that if the consortium was going to be worth anything, it should have been called into existence long ago and that it would be worthy of at least a mention in this context.

I am afraid that the Minister's omission to mention it, and the fact that his advisors did not think it worth drawing into a consultation of the kind he envisages here——

Mr. O'Malley

It was already discussed.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

It is doubtful if it can arise in this Bill. The Deputy can refer to it in passing, but it does not arise.

Mr. Kelly

The Chair is putting a very tight rein by not allowing the comment that the industrial development consortium, for which the Minister is responsible, has been left out, as far as I can see, of all the arrangements of the kind which have been envisaged here.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy is entitled to mention that but not to discuss it in detail after that.

Mr. Kelly

I remember that during the 20th Dáil when Deputy Dowling was on this side of the House, if he got his teeth into a point like that, he would have been good for about an hour, and would have been allowed get away with it.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am afraid that I was not in the Chair in the 20th Dáil. I would not take any responsibility for Deputy, now Senator, Dowling.

Mr. Kelly

Deputy Browne took the benefit of Deputy Dowling's rhetoric, if it was of benefit. Will the Minister assure me that SFADCo are happy with this rearrangement? I would also like an explanation as to why the industrial development consortium has not been mentioned here. Apart from these queries, I have no other observation, and I join the Minister in commending the Bill.

Mr. J. Ryan

On behalf of my party I welcome this Bill which will enable the Minister for Finance to increase the capital available to the SFADCo from £25 million to £45 million. Never was such an increase more welcome because at the moment unemployment in that area is very serious and it has recently been aggravated by the tragic closure of Ferenka. I compliment SFADCo on their contribution to this region, of which north Tipperary, my constituency, is part. SFADCo did a tremendous job in Shannon Airport and they have complimented industrial development in Ennis and in parts of Limerick city. From my experience with SFADCo and from listening to the Minister's speech, I can understand the feeling in my area that north Tipperary is not a part of the region. From the activities over the years, and the terms of the Bill as outlined by the Minister, one would think that north Tipperary was not in the region. If SFADCo are to be the company they were set up to be, there should be equality of development in the region, and anything that can be done by the Minister to bring this about will be welcomed by the people of north Tipperary. I was disappointed that the Minister did not extend the designated area into north Tipperary following the closure of Ferenka. Approximately two-thirds of the work force in Ferenka were employed from outside Limerick city, and I would have thought that that would have enabled the Minister to extend the designated area.

I welcome the Minister's recent statements on the need for small industries in rural areas. That need was brought home more forcibly by the closure of Ferenka which was a major industry employing approximately 1,500 people. The closure of this factory created untold hardship for the employees and their dependants. If we concentrate on small industries, employing perhaps 50 people, it would ensure rural renewal, something which has been talked about but about which very little has been done. If we are to keep people in the rural areas we must give them work.

I welcome the Department's new concept of job creation. I refer to the enterprise development programme which was initiated in the last few weeks. I strongly support this revolutionary idea and wish it every success. I understand that a unit has already been set up and is dealing with applications. In keeping with his thinking about small industrial development, the Minister might consider ensuring that this new programme be administered by SFADCo rather than from Dublin. This is a very worthwhile project for the mid-western region the implementation of which should be kept within the region.

I welcome the Minister's pilot scheme to see if SFADCo can handle the small industries sector of the Department for a period of 18 months. If SFADCo are to have the necessary muscle to combat unemployment in my area, they must be as near as possible to being autonomous. For that reason I recommend that only the minimum influence on developments in the western region should come from Kildare Street. We have people with sufficient expertise and knowledge of the region to ensure that all necessary steps will be taken for the betterment of the region. Over the years I have learned that applications for major industrial development which are processed in Dublin and which originated in this area are moved elsewhere. I have evidence that many industrialists who had intended setting up industries in the region because of the facilities available were nudged elsewhere. A foreign industrialist who, because of the facilities in my area, intended to set up an industry there, made application in Dublin but, whether politics entered into it or not I do not know, the industry ended up elsewhere.

Finally I would like to refer briefly to an aspect within the region itself which is a deciding factor in the internal industrial development of the region, that is, the apparent inequality of industrial grants within the region. I know from experience that the industry can come to North Tipperary and can be inclined towards north Tipperary, but it may be realised later that if that industry had gone elsewhere in the region the grant structure would have benefited that industrialist much better. If SFADCo are to do the job they set out to do all areas of the region should have equal entitlement to grants and so on. I am looking forward to much better investment in my part of the region than there has been over the years and I hope the Minister will see fit to ensure that North Tipperary get their proper share of the industrial take of the region.

Mr. Daly

I welcome this Bill which is designed to provide for the financing of the Shannon Free Airport Development Company. I compliment the company on their success to date and I wish them every success in the future.

I am surprised to hear Deputy Ryan complaining so much about the situation relating to unemployment in the mid-western region. His Government were four years in office and his own Minister for Industry and Commerce presided at a time when financial resources were not provided for the company to do the job they were set up to do. In the 1975 report of SFADCo the former chairman, Mr. O'Regan, had to point out that although the company's earned income continued to grow during the period under review, neither that income nor the grants in aid received for running expenses had been able to maintain parity with increasing costs. As a consequence the amount of money in real terms available for direct promotion has continued to decline. In spite of their commitment, the previous Government did not provide the necessary finances for the company to do the job they had been doing so well over the past two years. Nevertheless, we can change this, and I welcome this Bill as being a further indication of our commitment on this side of the House to the development of the Shannon region. You must take the region as a full region. You cannot isolate part of it, such as North Tipperary or West Clare, and try to find faults in these difficult areas. In West Clare, the area I represent, we are not having the success that we would like, mainly because of the difficulty of attracting industry into remote areas. Therefore we have infrastructural, communication and other problems which militate against the attracting of industry into these regions. In these things the local authorities and the Department of Posts and Telegraphs have equal responsibility with SFADCo. It will continue to be difficult to attract industry into remote regions unless we have the roads, telephones, communications and water supplies which are vital for this. This is a regional problem of which SFADCo are fully aware and they recognise the difficulties in this regard.

Even before Christmas, when the new Industrial Development Bill was passed here, the Shannon Free Airport Development Company had themselves an enterprising unit which had been doing very good work. Yesterday in Smithstown I opened a small bay just off the main Shannon Industrial Estate. This came about as a consequence of an enterprise development unit on which SFADCo had been concentrating some of their efforts over the past year and which has already brought about results, in that small industries have already commenced in this region and are now functioning and giving good employment. They can continue to function and many more of them can be got under way. Also in the Shannon region we have the youth enterprises section known as Youth Enterprises, Shannon. Here SFADCo in co-operation with the county development team, the schools and industrialists in the area have the project in a place called Ballycaseymore House which will provide employment opportunities for about 50 or 60 young people in the coming year. This is a valuable exercise which I would like to see further developed.

On behalf of my constituents I would like to express regret at the departure of Mr. O'Regan from the chair of the Shannon Free Airport Development Company. There is no need for me to record here the efforts he has made for the region. I am glad that he is continuing on the board of SFADCo and that his wide experience and great knowledge of the problems of the mid-western region will not be lost to this region. I welcome the new chairman, Mr. McCabe, and wish him every success in his task.

Overall this is a very desirable and worthwhile Bill. I want to put on record that we in Clare are deeply grateful to SFADCo and recognise the efforts that have been made by them over the past years since the company was formed, and I hope we can continue to see development in the region in the future.

Mr. O'Donnell

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, os rud é gur Teachta Dála mé ó réigiún an mheán-iarthair sílim go mba cóir dom labhairt ar an mBille seo. Tá sé de phribhléid agam bheith mar Theachta Dála ó dháil-cheantar reigiún an mheán-iarthair ar feadh sé bliana déag agus is minic i rith na blianta tháinig Airí Stáit isteach anseo le Bille áirithe maidir le forbairt regiún an mheán-iarthair agus bhí a lán diospóireachtaí, a lán ceisteanna agus rudaí mar sin maidir le obair agus dul chun cinn agus go deimhin maidir le deacrachtai a bhain-feadh le cúrsaí agus le imeachtaí an chomhlachta seo atá á phlé againn inniu, sé sin Comhlacht Forbartha na Sionainne. Tá imní mór ormsa faoin ráiteas a thug an tAire anseo inniu. Roimhe seo gach uair a tháinig Bille isteach maidir le forbairt regiún an mheán-iarthair, maidir le forbairt na Sionnainne, d'aontaímar ar an dtaobh seo den Teach leis an mBille sin. Bhí fonn orainn go léir leas muintir an regiúin sin a chur chun cinn, ach inniu ní dul chun cinn atá i ráiteas an Aire ar chor ar bith ach dul siar go mór, agus is mór an trua é sin.

In the normal way I went down to the Library today and was reading back over the various debates that have taken place here in relation to the chequered, sometimes difficult and very often exciting history of the Shannon Free Airport Development Company. I think I am now the longest serving Deputy in this House from the mid-western region and I had the privilege always of speaking on it here and in every case I welcomed every measure brought before this House regarding the mid-western region.

This Bill deals with a semi-State body which have a major responsibility for promoting a wide variety of economic developments in the mid-western region which I, like Deputies John Ryan and Daly, have the honour to represent. It is a region which like every other area in every country in the western world suffered severe job losses as a result of world economic recession in 1974, 1975 and later.

In the mid-western region, however, there was in existence a semi-State development body, SFADCo, which understood the problems of the region and were able to promote job creation projects to the best advantage. They succeeded, despite the world recession. From 1973 to the end of 1976 a total of 225 new industrial projects were approved for grant aid in the mid-western region despite the world economic recession, which was then at its worst. These job creation projects were of a wide variety, like the two at Raheen and the pharmaceutical industry at Clarecastle, and others. As well, there were substantial additions to existing industries which were responsible for increasing employment, some by almost 100 per cent.

Therefore, at the outset I want to pay a special tribute to SFADCo and to join in the tributes paid by the Minister and others to Brendan O'Regan the former chairman. I want to add my voice of appreciation of his contribution to the development not merely of SFADCo but of the airport itself and of industry throughout the region. I also take this opportunity to congratulate the new chairman, Mr. McCabe, who is an outstandingly successful industrialist, a man who is dedicated and committed to the welfare of the mid-western region. I wish him well in his onerous task.

I have referred to the period 1973 to 1976. We have the latest report of SFADCo, which is for 1976. It shows that there was a net gain of 1,200 new jobs in the region in 1976; 59 new projects were approved for grant aid; grants were provided for 54 industrial projects, and facilities were provided for five others, a total of 59 in one year alone. There has been much comment inside and outside the House on the new enterprise programme announced by the IDA. It is interesting to read in this annual report in relation to 1976 a paragraph on page 9:

Last year the company had established an Enterprise Development Unit which is geared towards identifying and marrying resources, such as raw materials and people of enterprise and flair, so that the two can be linked in a viable industry. Some success has already been achieved in this work, and a number of small enterprises have been established.

Before the question of an enterprise unit was mentioned by the IDA or in this House, SFADCo had been doing pioneering work on this. They also were responsible for a major development in the establishment of the Smithson Industrial Estate, a specialist estate at Shannon geared specially to cater for one-man and small enterprises of various kinds.

It is not alone in the field of this type of original thinking, the development of small industries and so forth, that SFADCo have been pioneering. In 1976 it became clear that the mid-western region, despite its enormous job losses due to the recession, was emerging successfully. There was a net gain of 1,200 jobs. But then we came to 1977 and we learn that the outturn has been a net loss of 500 jobs. This debate is taking place against the background of the worst and most appalling industrial disaster that hit this country since the State was founded. I refer to the closure of Ferenka when 1,400 jobs were lost. I would remind the Minister that in addition to the 1,400 job losses in Ferenka, in the past couple of months there have been further job losses. I carried out a survey in the past week and I was shocked to find that a further 200 jobs have been lost in the mid-western region in the past couple of months and that there are 500 workers there on a three-day week.

I have no intention of departing from the protocol of the House, but it is public knowledge in relation to the Scripto company that 55 jobs have been lost in County Clare. This is a very alarming situation. It has occurred in the last couple of months at a time when there has been a tremendous upsurge in the country's economy. These were industries which survived the economic recession, and it is against the background of the Ferenka closure and other job losses in the region that I want to analyse the Bill now before the House. I also bear in mind that following the debate on Ferenka there were front page headlines in the newspapers about special aid for the mid-western region. It was represented at the time that the Limerick region had become the industrial black spot of Europe.

I had expected the Minister to avail himself of this opportunity to initiate some exciting new programme, to indicate to us on introducing this Bill that massive additional finance could be made available to SFADCo to attract industry to the region and to develop the job creation programme. But before the Minister came into the House today I was looking through the Estimates for the Public Services for 1978. There I saw, instead of what I expected to see which was a substantial increase in the grant-in-aid to SFADCo for promotional purposes, that the subvention to SFADCo had been cut substantially.

Subhead J:1 the most important of all is for administration and general expenses, all of which are tied up in the matter of industrial promotion. In that subhead the subvention is cut from £750,000 in 1977 to £465,000 this year. I cannot figure out how this came about because we were assured extra money was being made available. The Minister came into the House and revealed this extraordinary news. It is astonishing news. Not merely has it shocked me, but I am sure it will have reverberations in every parish and village throughout the mid-west region. Not merely has their subvention been cut drastically but the powers and the very functions of SFADCo have been reduced considerably.

Mr. O'Malley

That is not true. Neither of those statements is true.

Mr. Mitchell

Ferenka is true. The Minister closed it.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputies, please. Deputy O'Donnell is in possession.

Mr. Mitchell

I should like to know why the Leas-Cheann Comhairle did not stop the Minister when he interrupted Deputy O'Donnell.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Resume your seat, Deputy. We will not have this. Deputy O'Donnell is in possession.

Mr. Mitchell

I am fed up of partisanship from the Chair. Why did you not stop the Minister when he interrupted?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Will the Deputy withdraw that statement?

Mr. Mitchell

I will not.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There is no partisanship from the Chair. The Deputy will withdraw that statement.

Mr. Mitchell

I will not withdraw it.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy will please withdraw that statement.

Mr. Mitchell

I will not.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I will ask the Deputy to leave the House.

Mr. Mitchell

I will not leave the House.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Will the Deputy please withdraw the statement?

Mr. Mitchell

The Minister heckled Deputy O'Donnell when he was telling the truth about the mid-west region.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I have never allowed any Deputy to be interrupted from any side of the House. I am asking the Deputy to withdraw the statement that there is partisanship from the Chair. There is no use in the Deputy arguing with the Chair. Will he withdraw the statement?

Mr. Mitchell

I will withdraw the statement but not the substance.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy O'Donnell is in possession.

Mr. O'Donnell

I am not too worried about heckling by the Minister, Deputy O'Malley. His attitude is well known. It was this type of vindictiveness that closed Ferenka. This Bill is a retrograde step. It is a major step back in the evolution of the functions and the powers of the Shannon Free Airport Development Company. The Minister said:

In order that SFADCo will be free to concentrate all their energies on this new task in relation to indigenous small industry, I am arranging that the IDA will resume full responsibility for industry other than small industry in the mid-west region.

In my 16 years in this House that is the most disastrous news I have heard for my constituency and for the mid-west region. It represents a complete contradiction of the modern concept of regional development and regional agencies. It considerably diminishes the powers of the Shannon Free Airport Development Company. I have no doubt it will have a disastrous effect on industrial development in the mid-west region.

I pay tribute, as I always did here, to the success of SFADCo in attracting industry, in developing the airport and so on. One of the reasons for that success was that they were a special regional agency with a very wide mandate. From my personal contacts with them during the four years in which I had the privilege of being a member of the Government, I know the part they and their officials played in securing such major projects as Alcan, Syntex, Burlington, Analog, and I had the privilege of being present at the official opening of many of those projects. Senior people from these major international companies invariably, in public as well as in private, express their admiration for and pay tribute to the dedication, the efficiency, the commitment and the hard work of the officers of the Shannon Free Airport Development Company responsible for industrial promotion. I would go so far as to say that, but for the fact that we had this special development agency in the mid-west region, we would not have Analog today, or Burlington, or Syntex, or many other projects throughout the mid-west region.

If the Government are serious in their concern about job creation and economic development, they must realise that in so far as it relates to job creation economic development must proceed in a broadly comprehensive integrated co-ordinated fashion. Over the years this company acquired considerable expertise. They did valuable pioneering work in many ways. This company and this company only were geared to enable the mid-west region to fight back against the recent disaster which hit them. For the life of me I cannot understand the wisdom behind this. I cannot understand the thinking behind it. I cannot see what advantage is in it. It adds to the conglomeration of organisations which are responsible for industrial promotion. We have the Shannon Development Company responsible for one type of industry. We now have the IDA responsible for bringing major industry into the region. We have the county development teams, the RDOs and the local authorities. The beauty of SFADCo was that they co-ordinated the efforts of those bodies. It was through the initiative of SFADCo that the first RDO was formed in the mid-west region.

Surely industrial development is part of economic development. Surely within the sphere of industrial development one must include large-scale, medium-scale, small industries and craft industries. This must be proceeded with in an integrated way. There are spin-off industries from major industries and service industries of a wide variety. Surely it is logical to have a co-ordinating approach through one agency. I regret very much that this situation has developed. This is a bad decision and time will prove it to have been a bad decision.

The Minister referred to the growth in traffic in the Shannon Industrial Estate. This is parallel with their success in attracting industry to the region before and during the economic recession. The rate of progress in relation to traffic at Shannon has been absolutely fantastic over the past couple of years. In 1976 and again in 1977 Shannon Airport had record traffic figures. The magic one million mark was passed and exceeded. There is a moral in this and it is very relevant to what I was saying about the scope and potential of a regional development agency. This dramatic rise in passenger traffic through Shannon took place even in the middle of an economic recession because the Government of which I had the honour to be a member made substantial additional funds available to enable SFADCo and Aer Rianta to go to Europe, the United States and even into eastern Europe to sell Shannon as a transit stop for charter traffic. for crew training, and so on. They did their job fantastically well and they got adequate financial back up from the Government.

If the mid-west region is to recover from the disaster which hit us in the industrial field, the logical thing to do is to give substantial additional funds to SFADCo and to give them the necessary wider powers to become a comprehensive, broadly based, regional development agency. As I said, I do not know what the thinking behind this is. I have a fair idea but I will not proceed on the basis of hearsay.

A decision by the Government, as announced by the Minister, is to concentrate on the development of what he calls indigenous industry. I suppose he is referring to industries indigenous to the region. I have referred to this matter on various occasions when SFADCo was being discussed. There are 27 or 28 industries in the industrial estate but, as far as I am aware, not one of them is based on the natural resources of the mid-west region. There is not one agricultural processing plant on the estate. As far as I know the only industry that is processing the raw materials of the area is the Wyatt Company at Askeaton. That is a major processing plant.

I should like the Minister to tell us exactly what he means when he refers to indigenous industries. Is he referring to industries that are a further expansion of industries based on agricultural raw materials? If he is, SFADCo with their greatly diminished powers will be unable to undertake such industries. By their nature food processing industries using modern technology are capital intensive, highly mechanised industries. The Minister should tell us what level of grants SFADCo will have full authority to approve. What size of industry is the Minister referring to here?

There is fantastic potential in the region for industries that use the raw materials of the area and, in this connection, I have mentioned the Wyatt Company at Askeaton. Industries that exploit the full potential of the region will achieve success. I would include in this category the development of marine-based industries in the Shannon Estuary and also the development of the fishing industry along the west Clare coast. This part of the country has been disastrously neglected since the foundation of the State. In the Burren region a small perfume factory has been established and it uses the flowers of the area in the manufacture of perfume. Now that SFADCo are restricted by the new edict of the Minister and are confined to the establishment of small industries, I cannot see how they can play a proper role in developing industry to the extent of providing the job creation programme that is needed.

The concept of regional development appears to have been scrapped totally. This raises serious implications in relation to the whole strategy of economic development, and particularly industrial development. If this is the final decision of the Government all industry will be centralised, with a massive bureaucracy in Dublin. This will be a retrograde step particularly having regard to the success achieved by SFADCo. I do not mind that the Government decided to scrap the Western Development Board. That is a different matter entirely. SFADCo have been in existence for several years and have had outstanding success in industrial and regional development, in tourism and in the development of the airport. In 1977 the company broke all records in relation to tourism in the region. The logical thing should be to give the company more power. I am greatly disappointed with the news we have been given. I disagree completely with what has been decided and I have no doubt it will come as a shock to the people of the mid-west region.

Mr. B. Desmond

The time has come in Dáil Éireann for a serious review of the industrial development structures in the mid-west region. I was very much involved as a trade union official in the late 1960s in the general industrial relations of many foreign industries in the Shannon Airport area. The union with which I was associated—the ICTU—is the union that predominantly organises in the area.

Looking at the matter as objectively as possible, one must be acutely aware of the multiplicity of organisations involved in industrial promotion in the region. Even on a very superficial count one can think of nine organisations that have a direct involvement. There is Aer Rianta, SFADCo, the IDA, the county development teams, the RDO, Limerick Corporation and Limerick County Council, Clare County Council and North Tipperary County Council.

It strikes me that the Government and the Dáil should review the extent to which these activities should be more effectively co-ordinated. I am well aware of the outstanding record of the former chairman of SFADCo and I join with the House in the best wishes extended to Brendan O'Regan on his retirement as chairman. I have no doubt he will continue to make a distinguished and dynamic contribution to industrial development in the area. During the years I have had much admiration for work done by executives such as Paul Quigley and other senior executives of the company. Many people, particularly those living outside the Shannon region, were sceptical about the prospects of success. People spoke of grass growing on the runways of the airport. I never shared that view and, despite some of the very difficult industrial disputes that took place, nevertheless the prospects of development were always quite good. I wish Mr. McCabe the new chairman of SFADCo, every success in his work.

There tends to be an appalling tradition here that if one sets up some structure which proves to be a success, as has been SFADCo, that means permanency. That is a dangerous illusion. Perhaps there should be another revolutionary step forward in the structure in that region. It may well be that to achieve a really dynamic future for the region, operating under a co-ordinated, coherent and industrial development structure—serious consideration should be given by the Government to the feasibility of this —the ordinary administration of the airport should continue under Aer Rianta, as in Dublin and Cork. I have no doubt that we have room for at least another two airports in the years ahead. Cork is not very viable at present; Shannon is. The 8,500-10,000 people who live in Shannon town should become a normal urban community, with their own local authority. They should be a city in their own right. I would even go so far as to say there should be a Shannon Town Corporation. I should like to see Shannon Town having its own senior local authority, not merely an urban district council, not town commissioners but an actual corporation, the property and land at Shannon being vested in such a corporation, with tenants continuing to buy out or rent their houses from such a local authority, with the land and the operation of the town being ceded by SFADCo to that new town local authority.

It is equally arguable that the IDA should take over the formal operation of the industrial estate itself at Shannon. We have a growing number of industrial estates throughout the country—in Cork, in Waterford. Indeed in my constituency in south County Dublin we have an IDA industrial estate growing up in Sandyford. Over the years the IDA have build up an expertise in industrial estate management, leasing arrangements and so on.

While I would never be critical in any way of the historical role of SFADCo I have always held the view that men of the calibre of Paul Quigley and others should not have been confined to that Shannon area. Neither could I ever see the object of saying to SFADCo "Extend your scope of operations into the general region and simultaneously involve the IDA in further co-ordination and consultation." Inevitably, in a small country, this gives rise to confusion, competing bureaucracies—excellent though they may be—and does not advance industrial development.

Mr. O'Donnell

Competing bureaucracies are better than non-competing ones.

Mr. B. Desmond

That is true but not in a country where every shilling in the creation of every half of a job must be spent in a manner which will produce that job, in a country where there are so few people with entrepreneurial ability. Few of us are capable of hopping on a 'plane at Shannon Airport, flying out and bringing back an industry. Some have done so, but I am not so sure they should be confined to that area. Indeed there are IDA executives capable of doing so but there are so few of them that to diffuse them in a massive organisational structure is something which should be examined carefully.

I am sure Deputy O'Donnell and the Minister will agree that the area about which we are talking is one of immense political and organisational sensitivity. By and large empires are established, grow up and are never meant to change. In 1968 the Fianna Fáil Party, under their industrial development strategy, extended the scope of SFADCo, gave them massive new responsibilities, but, in 1978, back that goes to the IDA. That kind of thing is not conducive to coherent industrial development. Neither, in the long run, is it conducive to the broader industrial development of the region. Supposing, for example, tomorrow morning the Minister sanctioned a new electricity power station for the Shannon Estuary, God forbid, probably we would have a new industrial structure with the ESB getting up to their tonsils. I should not like to be the Minister trying to co-ordinate that development with so many other structures.

Mr. O'Donnell

If there was one co-ordinating, regional agency that might solve the problem.

Mr. B. Desmond

It is easier to co-ordinate one unit than eight, nine or ten.

Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy (Mr. O'Malley)

If I may interrupt, that gangway there is becoming a very wide chasm.

Mr. B. Desmond

My problem always is——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy Desmond does not need any help from either side of the House.

Mr. O'Malley

I am sorry for interrupting. Certainly he does not need it from that side.

Mr. O'Donnell

It appears as if the Minister is the Chair's new adviser on protocol.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Deputy might leave protocol to the Chair, please.

Mr. B. Desmond

If one decides to be honest one gets no thanks whatever from either side.

Mr. O'Malley

I will thank the Deputy.

Mr. B. Desmond

Honesty, in terms of politics, of trying to get down to the nitty gritty of promotional development, is not a pleasant thing. I remember in 1956-57, as a union official, going down to Limerick when one finished up talking to bacon factory workers, building workers, flourmilling workers and so on. One had to start searching for manufacturing units. Indeed one was searching in terms of industrial development in the Shannon region.

I put the thought to the House that it may well be that the Minister will finish up arbitrating between SFADCo and the IDA. His precedessor had to do it and his predecessor's predecessor had to do it, and in 1968 we had a piece of legislation which extended the scope of SFADCo. In 1978 the matter is reversed again, as Deputy O'Donnell rightly pointed out. In the long term this is not helpful for the future of industrial promotion in the area.

The Minister and the House should seriously consider the situation. In fact, I would go so far as to say that the proposal before this House to have a Joint Committee of both Houses of the Oireachtas for the review of the role of State-sponsored bodies is the very issue. This is the very type of policy consideration which should go before that committee. We would then have an opportunity, as politicians, of talking to the chief executive of the IDA and to the chief executive and senior staff of SFADCo and asking them what they consider to be the best structure for industrial development promotion in the mid-west region. We could then bring in the regional development organisation, the county managers and planning officers for the cities of Limerick, Tipperary and Clare, sit down with them to do this job and then make recommendations to the Government in regard to the most desirable structure.

That could be done because what matters is job creation. What matters is bringing industry into that region. What matters above all is maintaining employment in that region because the cost of maintaining employment is cheaper than the cost of job creation. Since that is the paramount consideration, the future of the bureaucracies within the area is a lesser consideration. I feel, therefore, it is time the House had a look at the future of the region in terms of its industrial development promotional agencies and it is time we made that kind of recommendation to the Government.

I would sum up by saying that Shannon should be made a local authority corporation. The land and houses in Shannon and the buildings and the town of Shannon should be vested in a new local authority known as the City of Shannon. It is now an area with 10,000 people and I am opposed to giving it just urban district council status or town or town commissioner status. In the context of existing legislation I would make it a corporation similar to Kilkenny, Sligo, Drogheda and so on. I would then have the ordinary operation of the airport, a most successful airport, handled by Aer Rianta. I would have the Shannon Industrial Estate designated as an IDA industrial estate. I would certainly have the senior executives of SFADCo given a massive new role with no loss of their status in that structure. We could go ahead on a new basis, on a new phase of development. What is already there will be a monument to men like Brendan O'Regan, Paul Quigley and many others. These people would then advance industrial development in the area on a co-ordinated basis at national and regional level. We would cease to have the undesirable situation where ten years ago Shannon Free Airport expanded and now in 1978 it has suddenly contracted under this Bill.

I am not sure that the differentiation made by the Minister between small indigenous industries and larger industries is esoteric in the context of industrial development. The IDA should have responsibility for all forms of general industry. There is nothing particularly advantageous in giving the IDA full responsibility for industry other than small industry. Small industries grow and become big industries and there is this excessive preoccupation with the exigencies of size, as though it were the criterion. One can have a technically advanced capitalintensive industry employing a small number of people. These econometric preoccupations of the Department are handy demarcation lines for giving a role to the IDA and to SFADCo. In the long run they do not mean too much in terms of industrial promotion.

My views may not be popular in certain areas but the Government have two or three years in which to plan that advance. I am convinced they can do it provided they grasp the problems involved. I am not totally wedded to my future concept of it. I am disturbed at the multiplicity of promotional agencies in this region. If you looked through the annual report of the IDA for 1976 you would have to search to find a mention of Shannon Airport. If you look through the regional reports you get North Tipperary, South Kerry and so on. If you waded through the annual report of the SFADCo you would swear that the IDA do not even exist in terms of their role. That situation is not desirable in a small country where we have a great deal of promotional work to do, where we have to bring in major companies in which the IDA would have to take equity. There are no political kudos in this for anybody because the young people of the region will not thank us in the years ahead, whether we have SFADCo or the IDA. They want employment and our job is to ensure that the structures are going to bring about these jobs. I have grave doubts that the Minister's speech will give the kind of breakthrough which was achieved by another O'Malley on another day. I recall another occasion when the late Donogh O'Malley announced free education at an NUJ function in Bray. The following morning he was called in by the late Seán Lemass and was told "You have done it", and that it was now the job of the Government to find the money for it. We need a little spark of imagination such as was evident in the family. That could be sparked off and a new change of structure brought about.

Dr. Woods

I should also like to welcome this Bill and its improved financial provisions. I can well realise why the share capital which will be taken up by the Minister for Finance is far greater than it was in the past. I welcome the other provisions, those relating to the provision of housing and community services at Shannon, for which an increase from £17 to £22 million is envisaged in the limit. The grant-in-aid voted to the company annually is being increased from £17 million to an aggregate amount of £22 million: We all congratulate SFADCo on their achievements to date. They have had to operate in a difficult area. I should also like to pay tribute to the retired chairman of the company, Brendan O'Regan, and the staff who worked with him. I should also like to welcome the new chairman, Mr. McCabe.

We fail to realise the lessons that are in SFADCo for us all. From the outset the industrial free zone development at Shannon was an innovation not only in terms of our own country but on a world wide basis. It is an innovation which has been copied elsewhere and the company have given considerable assistance to other countries. They have always placed the emphasis on quality Irish and on local enterprise under local control. If we look at the performance of the company, particularly during the recent difficult years, we will find that on the Shannon industrial estate the total trade net balance, which was a favourable one, in 1976 was £41.7 million, while in 1975 it was £31.8 million, an increase of 31 per cent. The Minister indicated that the estimated figure in net favourable balance for 1977 is £50 million.

During an extremely difficult period for the country there was a level of achievement in the excess of the development of the total trade and in the excess of exports over imports in the SFADCo area. We should all commend that. Over the same period we have been given reports which show clearly that, even though it was a difficult time for tourism, nevertheless in the case of the castle tours and banquets, with their typically Irish nature, there was an increase in attendances of 5,271, or an increase of 5 per cent. The number of day visitors increased over that period also. That occurred at a time when tourism in general was suffering from the recession and the other factors which adversely affected that industry.

When we look at the employment performance we find there was an increase in employment in spite of the fact that in that area there were also job losses. At the early stage of the development of the Shannon free scheme there were fears that there would be low added value industries in that area in general. It was felt that the companies which would set up there would be of a transient nature and in a position to move off readily. In fact, we had a number of highly-publicised examples of companies pulling out readily. There seems to have been a change in the nature of the enterprise at Shannon because one can see from the 1976 report that 90 per cent of the new jobs generated as a result of new industrial projects during that year related to the metals, engineering and electronics sectors. They involve high technology with considerable spin-off and servicing in other industries. This integrated nature of the enterprises which have been developed in more recent times at Shannon is a valuable development in the scheme. It also led to the stability of the scheme as a whole during that difficult period.

Looking in general at the performance of SFADCo we find tremendous achievement in the maintenance and creation of jobs during a depressed period. There was a net gain of 1,200 jobs. We must ask ourselves: why has this happened in such an area and the circumstances that exist there? We must ask the reasons for this. From meeting people in that area I came to the conclusion that one of the reasons was the strong personal commitment of the people who work in the area for and with SFADCo. Those people saw the development as something that affected their lives totally and they were prepared to contribute as much as possible to the maintenance of the scheme and employment and the development of new enterprises.

Another aspect which seems to be strong is that relating to local initiatives. There is a lot of evidence of local enterprise and general development based on local ideas and local people. This change in the nature of the SFADCo developments in recent years has been worth while and it ensures that it will continue to be a successful company in the future. I was impressed by the work done by SFADCo in relation to youth. The example there could be followed by Dublin. The people there did not sit and dream about what might be done about youth. They tackled the problem and initiated new projects and ideas. I was surprised to see that there were 2,044 school-going children there while in my small community on the north side of this city, Kilbarrack, we have 3,000 school-going children. If I travel a quarter of a mile in any direction I see as many children again in the other communities about me. This shows the concentrated approach which has been taken by SFADCo in relation to the children in that area The approach of the company is commendable. Their Youth Enterprise Shannon Scheme, which is referred to as YES, is a clear indication of their commitment to the young people in that area. This project is aimed at establishing small service industries at Shannon, controlled and staffed by young people.

It is very easy to discuss the broad aspect of a Bill like the one before us and not realise some of the microcosms which are within that Bill, which are there to be seen by us and acted on by us because they are very important lessons for the rest of the country. They bring to my mind two concepts which I pass on to the Minister. The first one is that community youth enterprise projects seem to be well worth pursuing, perhaps something on the lines of those which have been initiated in the SFADCo area. The second one is the community based industrial projects. We have a new phenomenon in Dublin city and in other cities throughout the country where communities are identifying themselves with and are organising locally a range of activities and events. This organisation is applied particularly to sports activities, local planning activities, arrangements for elderly people and special youth care facilities. It has been sponsored particularly by Dublin Corporation through their community development programme in their community environment section.

We should, perhaps, start now to think a little further about this and to think in terms of community based industrial projects. These are the small enterprise projects on the lines of what has been happening in SFADCo. We would devolve some of the responsibility and authority to community enterprise groups and give them aid, some of this capital we are talking about and some advance factory units. I have come across quite a number of people in those small community groups in Dublin who have good ideas and are looking for a means of putting them into practice. Many of those people have their work elsewhere and are satisfied with the income they are receiving and the amount of energy they have to put into their work. I believe that their ideas should be considered in community development.

The Minister indicated that he sees the development of small indigenous industries in the mid-western region in a special and intensive way not hitherto attempted in the country. He sees this as a pilot exercise, the results of which could be evaluated at the end of 18 months or two years, when decisions will be taken about the extension of such an intensive drive to other regions. I believe the examples are in SFADCo to take on some of those concepts and to develop them now in the communities in the larger urban areas. The Minister might consider having a number of other pilot community based industrial projects or community based enterprise groups in the larger urban areas. My local community on the north side of Dublin is a very small one but we have 3,000 school-going children in this community. A great effort should go into a community like this. We have examples in the work which has been done and which has been further supported by the Minister in this Bill. Youth enterprise and community based enterprise groups are two concepts which come to my mind from the work which has been going on in SFADCo.

We very often become too involved with figures and we do not notice the strategies which are adopted by people, which are far more important in the long run. Very useful strategies have been adopted by SFADCo which could be implemented in the larger urban areas. This is a very urgent matter in so far as those areas are concerned. I conclude by welcoming the Bill and the improved provisions which it makes for the further development of SFADCo. I would like to thank SFADCo for the ideas and concepts they have put forward in the development of their work.

Mr. Taylor

Those of us who reside in the mid-western region welcome any improvements which will provide additional jobs for the unemployed and will also enable those already employed to be retained in industry in that region. There seems to be a change in the functions of the personnel of SFADCo. The full responsibility for the promotion of major industries seems to rest on the shoulders of the IDA in Dublin and the functions of SFADCo seem to be totally employed in the siting and promotion of small industries.

This is only a pilot scheme and we must wait to see if there are permanent results. We have to decide if we should be too critical of the functions or if it is wise to take away from a body who have promoted industry and given jobs to up to 5,000 people in the Shannon Industrial Estate and have shown an interest in the diversification of industry through the Counties of Clare, Limerick, in North Tipperary, and in particular in Limerick city. I would like to know what will be the functions of the county development teams in the future and how they will work in the SFADCo. The county development teams up to this were responsible for the promotion of small industries. It seems now that they will have to tie in with the SFADCo. I am sure that will be worked out and the administration and functions of both will be clearly defined. This change will be justified if, because of any innovation, there is a spread of industry to the more remote areas. Despite the fact that SFADCo were very successful in the Shannon industrial area and in promoting major industry through the mid-western region generally, they have not succeeded in penetrating the peripheral area of west and north Clare in particular, areas that are far removed from the hub of industry in the Shannon industrial area. That is not to say however that we do not appreciate the continuous development that has been taking place there down through the years. Indeed, it has been a tremendous achievement to build up an estate of that nature in such a short period and to set up such a successful sales and export system. Even during the recession very few jobs were lost in that area.

I am confident that the new chairman of SFADCo, Mr. McCabe, will bring to that company initiative and energy of the type he has shown in the industry in which he has been involved. But if he should be deprived of a major function, that is, the promotion of big industry, he shall have to concentrate on the smaller industries. To him and to the Minister I would suggest that if they do not succeed in diversifying industry and establishing industries in areas from where there has been mass emigration and in which there has been permanent unemployment for many decades, they will have failed in their function.

In saying this I am not criticising any Minister or any Government: all can share in responsibility for the situation in which those areas of Clare to which I have referred were left without permanent employment. The people in those areas are convinced that no serious effort was made at any time by responsible people to remedy the situation and they placed the blame fairly on the shoulders of those who deserve to accept responsibility for that state of affairs. No serious effort was made to bring industries to those areas where there is congestion and where the quality of the land is not good enough to provide a decent living for those who wish to remain in the areas in which they were reared. We welcome industry to any part of our county but we shall be very disappointed if in the future there is not a declaration of a firm intention to locate industry, big or small, in the areas of west and north Clare in particular.

There is an item in the Public Service Estimates which I find difficult to understand. This item indicates that this year £285,000 less is being allocated towards SFADCo under the heading of administrative and general expenses in the grant-in-aid. Should the figure not show an increase, rather than a decrease? I trust the Minister will explain this change when he is replying. How can we expect the status of a company to be improved if we reduce the amount made available to them in respect of general expenses on administration? I trust that in any restructuring of SFADCo more of that company's energies will be directed towards the promotion of tourism in their area. They have succeeded in attracting to the airport quite an influx of tourists. The figures for last year were very encouraging for those people who depend on tourism for a living in that area. In the absence of industry, one must find some other source of earnings and the tourist industry is capable of being developed further in this region. People in the different areas of the county have shown an active interest in the promotion of tourism. We look forward to some positive results in this sphere on the basis of the money being allocated for this purpose.

Deputy Woods referred to the success of the castle tours and of the banquets at Bunratty and Knappogue. This area of activity has been a major attraction for tourists in Clare. Indeed it has sold itself. One can cite, for instance, the wonderful entertainment provided by the singers at Bunratty.

I should hope that nobody would get the idea that SFADCo as a body would now have to accept a downgrading of their status. With the IDA assuming the sponsorship and promotion of major industry in the area, one could infer that there is a downgrading of SFADCo and that perhaps the company had not succeeded in attracting major industry to the mid-western region. That is not the case. There are many major and successful industries in the area, but there have been others which, unfortunately, are better not spoken of. The loss of employment in the latter type of industry has to be overcome by the creation of new employment. The function of SFADCo is much more difficult now than it was in the past because they must endeavour to counteract the effect of happenings in some industries in order to encourage other people who are interested in establishing here. Nobody should be discouraged by what has happened in some cases—for instance, Ferenka: that company's huge debts indicated there were many factors which contributed to their failure and these factors should not be given now as a reason for other companies not showing an interest in coming to the mid-western region. There is available in the area a strong workforce. In addition AnCO are continuing to retrain people. One can only hope that the unions will be sensible now and agree among each other.

I hope that unions will agree and be sensible when industry is being threatened and will not allow any forces to disrupt the permanent industry that is necessary in any country to give good employment. People who wish to establish industries in this region have all the necessary facilities. There are educational facilities for their families and transport facilities, including the airport at Shannon. Goodwill should be shown towards this area which has had great difficulties during the past six months.

As I said earlier, I hope this experiment will give new hope to those who reside in remote areas. Sooner or later it must be recognised that justice must be done. While a concentration of industry in one area has been very successful, it may entail for some people a journey to work of 60 or 70 miles. Industry should be located in remote areas away from industrial estates. Small industries seem to be the only solution to the problem of creating permanent employment in such areas.

I hope that the restructured SFADCo will succeed and will create a favourable image abroad. We in public life will support their efforts but we expect from them something in return. We hope that we will not be disappointed.

Mrs. Ahern

Nuair a tháinig mé isteach sa Tig ní raibh ar intinn agam aon rud a rá ach an méid a bhí le rá ag an Iar-Aire, an tUasal Ó Domhnaill, a spreag chun cainte mé, agus ní thuigim conas is féidir leis a rá gur retrogressive step atá sa Bhille seo. Más retrogression é seo ní thuigim cad is progression ann. Siad príomh aidhmeanna an Bhille seo ná:

(1) an increase from £25 million to £45 million in the aggregate of the amounts which the Minister for Finance may subscribe in taking up shares of the company;

(2) an increase from £17 million to £22 million in the limit on the issue of repayable advances by the Minister for Finance for the provision of housing and community services at Shannon; and

(3) an increase from £17 million to £22 million in the aggregate amount of grant-in-aid, voted annually, which may be made to the company.

Cuireann sé ar buile mé nuair a deireann sé nach dul chun cinn atá sa Bhille seo. Tar éis an méid sin a rá agus an buile a chur díom, thos-nóidh mé, b'fhéidir chun rud fónta nó ciallmhar a rá.

We are all delighted that Shannon Airport has succeeded in attaining the original goal of becoming the premier airport in Ireland. We are also delighted that it has been such a fantastic success as a duty-free airport. We are delighted, too, that SFADCo has been such a tremendous success. In all their fields of endeavour they have been a great credit, not only to the people who pioneered the projects in Shannon but also to the Government who backed them to the hilt through the years.

The success in tourism has been an inspiration for many people. I mention particularly the success of the banquets held at Bunratty, Knappogue and Dunguaire. Brian McMahon's tableau at Knappogue is an inspiration for the whole of Ireland. We had the opportunity of bringing it to Listowel and we had never realised that our own man from Listowel had produced such a brilliant tableau. I believe it should be seen all over Ireland. There are poetry sessions at Dunguaire. This is not incidental—it is of great importance to people who come to Ireland who want to see the background to our culture. If there is just a short period to initiate tourists to the background of our culture and heritage, it is only necessary to go to Bunratty and show them the hall and the fisherman's cottage and they will see how we have evolved from poverty to our present situation. It is an inspiration. They can hear about our history at Knappogue and enjoy the poetry sessions at Dunguaire. These three castles and the folk village have contributed greatly to our reputation abroad. In the field of tourism SFADCo must be complimented. If anybody wants to talk about failures, the percentage if it were added up would not amount to 1 per cent. Anybody who never makes a mistake never does anything.

I should like to remind the Minister that we in north Kerry are saddened at times that we do not belong to the Shannon region. In fact, we do belong to it. Whilst we are affiliated to the Cork region, there should be some way in which we can be affiliated to SFADCo and the estuary of the Shannon. What happens in Clare one day will also affect us in Kerry and what happens in Kerry affects the people in Clare and the adjoining region.

As I said earlier, I did not come into the House prepared to speak and I have not collected my thoughts, but I want to mention one matter which disturbs me. Land is being bought up along our side of the Shannon and I do not know whether it is happening in Clare as well. I sincerely hope that there is a watchdog and that speculators are not buying up large areas of land on our side of the Shannon. We do not know whether they are bona fide or whether they are chancers, but I hope that somebody in a high place knows what their credentials are. In the whole of Europe there is no more precious estuary than the Shannon. It is unpolluted and unspoilt. Even if there was no industry there, there is potential for thousands of jobs in tourism.

There is a great potential for industry. There is a great depth of water at Foynes and along to Tarbert and over that whole area I know well. I know the Minister is keeping a very careful eye on any projects suggested for the area. Now I believe that big and small industries can work side by side. There is no conflict between the small industry and the large industry but we must ensure that the kind of industry we will get will not destroy the very important tourist potential of the Shannon. There is a certain amount of anxiety but I have every confidence in the Minister that all aspects will be carefully considered.

My main interest has been in cottage industries. These have been very successful in Donegal and elsewhere and there is no reason why they could not be successful in other areas. There is an opening for such industries in the Shannon area because the tourists want quality goods and quality goods are not produced in large establishments. They are produced in small, personalised industries. There is a tremendous potential for such industries in the Shannon area. At the moment a blacksmith is producing lovely souvenirs. There is an opening for lacemaking and weaving. In Muckross there is a potter, a weaver and so on.

We are all proud of the developments in Shannon. I was glad to hear the Minister for Labour pay tribute to the late Donogh O'Malley. I believe "Des" will do better in his particular field than even "Donogh" did in the field of education. I must pay tribute to Brendan O'Regan. One of my first assignments was to the Tourist Board. At the first meeting I attended there was a Páipéar Bán on the Irish language. It dealt with what could be done for the language in the semi-State bodies. It was speckled with "if it is feasible". "Feasible" appeared right through it. It was all over the place. Had the people in 1916 adopted that attitude nothing would ever have been done. When everybody was looking at me because of my amazing outburst, Brendan said: "Kit, we like to hear that. Keep on". That was the outlook of Brendan O'Regan. He always wanted to hear what others had to say or what others wanted in order to discover whether it had a national character. That was the first time I realised his interest in all that was Irish and in all that has made this country. I am sorry he is leaving but he will make an impact wherever he goes. He has set a very high standard for those who come after him. With that example to follow I am sure Shannon will go from success to success.

Mr. W. O'Brien

Representing a Limerick constituency it is only right I should take this opportunity to pay tribute to SFADCo for the work they have done. We can be really proud of the achievements particularly over the years of inflation in 1975 and 1976. I would be worried if there were any downgrading of SFADCo which has been responsible for so much employment in the area. There were disappointments. Ferenka must have been a disappointment. These things happen. We must look to the future and stop bemoaning the past. While we all welcome industries, I am not too enamoured of the large industry even though it will employ more. More emphasis must be laid on the small industry situated in the towns and villages. Our roads are becoming virtually impassable because of the density of traffic. The roads cannot cope with the traffic. Small localised industries would take some traffic off the roads because the employees would not have to travel, as they do now, 40 or 50 miles to Shannon.

I compliment SFADCo on the way in which they co-operated with the county development team and the local authority. I was chairman of the county council and a member of the development team and SFADCo were always prepared to listen and to help. I would not like to think there is any danger of SFADCo losing some of their powers, because they have given a great service.

I cannot agree more with the previous speaker's reference to tourism. We have great tourism potential in our area. I often wonder if we are getting the best from what we have. I would like to see a closer relationship between SFADCo and other boards in relation to tourism so that we can encourage more visitors. We in the mid-west are at a crossroads. Limerick city, west Limerick and east Limerick, are badly hit as regards unemployment and anything that the Government, the Minister or public representatives can do to alleviate the problem is welcome. We should come together to work for the general good. There was never a time when more effort was needed to help the people of the western region.

Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy (Mr. O'Malley)

I thank Deputies for their remarks. All except one have welcomed the Bill and the various proposals which are not in the Bill, to which I referred in the course of my opening speech. The contribution of Deputy O'Donnell, the one Deputy who was critical of everything, could well be discounted because it is pretty evident why he wishes to take the line which he takes. It need not concern us.

Deputy Kelly inquired whether SFADCo agreed with the proposals which I outlined towards the conclusion of my speech, and I can happily and readily tell him that they do. I was gratified and encouraged by the enthusíasm with which they greeted my suggestions and my amendments to some of their own suggestions in relation to their future responsibilities. When I say SFADCo, I do not confine my remarks to the board but I include the chief executive speaking on behalf of the executive of the company generally.

Deputy Kelly referred to the proposed division of responsibilities by the size of industry and questioned if that was necessarily the best division. Whether it is the best or not, it is the most feasible from the point of view of what can be done without some of the difficulties that exist at the moment. Deputy Kelly also referred to the fact that there was no mention in my speech of the Industrial Development Consortium in relation to these proposals. At the first meeting of the Industrial Development Consortium I made reference to these proposals to the consortium, but the nature of the consortium is such that it is not a body which is there to sit on top of SFADCo, the IDA or any other individual body, and to approve or not of their policies. It is a coordinating body, there for the advancement of industrial development and for the advancement of job creation and job maintenance. The proposed division would be roughly on the lines of the existing division within the IDA between small industries and the other types of industry, that is, generally speaking, 50 employees and £300,000 capital assets net, but these kind of divisions are not ones that have to be strictly adhered to by statute as there are no statutory provisions in relation to the proposals made, which SFADCo have accepted. If, for example, an industry that they were promoting started off with 30 or 40 employees and developed over a period to 60, 70 or 80, I would envisage SFADCo, as it were, remaining with that industry in the course of its development.

One Deputy queried the meaning of "indigenous" in this context. I want to make it clear that for the purposes of what we are talking about "indigenous" means "Irish owned". I am not to be taken as excluding the possibility of foreign-owned small industries being developed in the region, or being developed generally throughout the country. Experience has been that 90 or 95 per cent of small industries over the years has tended to be Irish owned, and that makes it particularly valuable.

Deputy Ryan welcomed the Bill and the proposals that I made in relation to the future activities of SFADCo and he made the point that the processing of projects under the enterprise development programme should be carried out by SFADCo. I am glad to be in a position to tell him that as a result of the changes we are now making it will be possible for SFADCo to carry out the processing of these projects. Most of the projects under the enterprise development programme will be small industries and accordingly under these new arrangements they will be dealt with by SFADCo in the mid-western region. If these proposed changes were not made all of those projects would be dealt with by the IDA from Dublin as has been the case hitherto in the mid-western region and elsewhere.

Deputy Ryan mentioned that he believed that the North Riding of Tipperary, which he represents, had been perhaps less well looked after than other parts of the mid-western region in recent years and, by implication at least, he was rather critical of me for having designated only Limerick city and the immediately surrounding areas for the purposes of the Industrial Development Acts. I will give the up to date statistics which indicate where the benefits and the needs are at present. My decision in these circumstances would not then be quarrelled with.

The change in employment from January 1977 to January 1978 within the mid-western region is as follows: North Tipperary, plus 230; Shannon Airport Industrial Estate, plus 263; County Clare, excluding Shannon, minus 64; County Limerick, plus 187; Limerick city minus 1,064. My decision is more than justified by these figures which indicate that apart from Shannon Airport, north Tipperary has done best of all and Limerick city, has done immeasurably the worst. The Limerick city figures are mainly due to two major closures of factories in the city in the last year, the Clover Meats factory in the early part of the year and the Ferenka factory in the later part of the year. Unfortunately in Limerick those two closures of 1977 follow hard on the heels of an abnormally large number of closures in each of the years 1974, 1975 and 1976.

Deputy O'Donnell described the Bill and I quote him, as a "retrograde step". As the Bill only increases the amounts of money that can be made available under three different headings to the company, even with the sort of exaggeration that one expects from Deputy O'Donnell, it is difficult to imagine how any such Bill could be regarded as a retrograde step. The Bill extends the limits which are contained in the current legislation. The relinquishment by SFADCo of their partial role in regard to large industry is simply a recognition of the reality of the situation as they put it to me. Deputy O'Donnell mentioned three projects in particular which were promoted in the region in the last number of years. He mentioned them by name, Burlington, Analog and Syntex.

Mr. O'Donnell

And Alcan.

Mr. O'Malley

Adding Alcan to it, all four of these projects were promoted by the IDA.

Mr. O'Donnell

Without any approach from SFADCo.

Mr. O'Malley

SFADCo's functions have tended in the main to helping the industry when it is established and providing services for it in the course of its being set up. So far as these major industries of that kind are concerned, they have not had an overseas office for some years now and the promotion of industries from overseas has been done exclusively by the IDA.

Mr. O'Donnell

May I ask the Minister——

Mr. O'Malley

The Deputy took the gravest exception by making a two-word observation when he was speaking.

Mr. O'Donnell

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy O'Donnell, you could ask a question at the end. That I think would be the wisest way of doing it. Another Deputy came in and created a problem earlier in the evening.

Mr. O'Donnell

Will I be allowed at the end?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The Minister.

Mr. O'Malley

The new situation will prevent any duplication of effort which may have arisen in the past. Needless to say, with the considerable scarcity of resources at present, duplication should not be encouraged. What I am proposing will avoid any possibility of this, and SFADCo will be able to devote all of their energies to the promotion and development of the sector in industry which most needs promotion and development at present, and not merely to the interests of the mid-western region. I do not see this as purely a regional development but as in the long-term interest of the country as a whole.

Deputy O'Donnell raised the question of the provision in this year's Estimates, the 1978 Estimates, for the administration of the general expansion of SFADCo. I have to say something in relation to the funding of SFADCo for 1978 that I did not want to have to say when I have 12 or so major semi-State bodies attached to my Department. To draw attention to the way that one of them has got on in terms of finance inevitably causes tensions and difficulties with some of the others. Unfortunately, by virtue of what was said by Deputy O'Donnell I am forced to draw attention to the situation. The total amount of money provided in the Estimates for SFADCo from State sources for 1978 is £8.9 million which represents an increase of £2.46 million or 38 per cent over the amount which was spent in 1977. Therefore, Deputy O'Donnell's allegations about money being cut back and things of that kind are quite untrue. He picked out one individual subhead where on the face of it there is a reduction, but he failed to take into account first of all the circumstances of that reduction and he further failed to take into account the total provided in respect of this company, which at an increase of 38 per cent over that provided in 1977, is a cause of some embarrassment to me, when other companies under my control are getting increases that are only a small fraction of that amount and which they are already complaining about to a greater or lesser extent.

Deputy O'Donnell referred to subhead J.1. and from that tried to imply that there was a reduction in the resources made available for SFADCo. The position in regard to J.1. is a rather technical matter because the provision made for the company in the Book of Estimates does not represent the full picture in regard to the company's financing for administration and general expenses. The company's administration and general expenses are financed mainly from the company's own resources, that is, from rents from factories and houses, and these resources are increasing from year to year. The 1978 figures of the total available for administration and general expenses for SFADCo are expected to show an increase of 23 per cent over 1977 and not a decrease. There was some kind of accountancy error last year, the nature of which I am not clear about, which resulted, I am informed, in part of the J.1 subhead referring to funding that comes from own resources being understated and the part referring to funding that comes from grant-in-aid being overstated, but the net result is that in that area it appears there is now going to be an increase in the total for 1978 of 23 per cent over the total for 1977.

There is an overall increase in 1978 of 38 per cent over the overall total for SFADCo for 1977. That is not the position that would arise in respect of a company being down-graded or run down or deprived of powers or anything of that kind, as was alleged by Deputy O'Donnell.

I listened with considerable interest to Deputy Barry Desmond's contribution. Much of what he had to say was interesting. It was very much at variance with what Deputy O'Donnell, who had spoken before him, said. For that reason Deputy Desmond is to be congratulated on having the courage to speak his mind and not be dominated in the way that some people might have expected he would. Deputy Desmond spoke about the desirability of a local authority taking over the property at Shannon town. That is certainly something that I would find desirable also and I think that is the view of the Minister for the Environment. While this cannot be done overnight I hope the development of a local authority for Shannon Town is something that will evolve over the next few years so that it will become as much of a town in County Clare as Ennis and Kilrush are now and that in the last resort the control over the town would be exercised by Clare County Council.

Deputy Desmond also suggested as one of the possibilities worthy of consideration, as was his nice way of putting what he felt should be done, that the IDA should consider taking over the industrial estate at Shannon. I do not favour that suggestion because I think it would not be in the interests of Shannon Airport to do that. The position as it will now be is the most satisfactory.

Before concluding, I should like to put SFADCo in something like their historical context, to show how they have developed up to now and how I feel they should develop in the future. Shannon was established as an airport just before the last war when development tended to move to Foynes because flying boats were the most popular and the easiest way to convey passengers across the Atlantic in the late 1930s and up to 1946 and 1947. By 1947 the trend had reverted to land planes which were then capable of being flown across the Atlantic from Shannon, being the most westerly airport in Europe, to Gander, the most easterly in America. Shannon did extremely well in those years up to 1957-1958. About 1957 the jet era came into trans-Atlantic travel. It was no longer necessary for large passenger planes flying the Atlantic to land at the most westerly airport, Shannon. They were able to overfly to London, Paris, Frankfurt and the various other cities in Europe.

At that time it was seen that the considerable employment and prosperity which had been generated at Shannon were in considerable danger and my predecessor, Seán Lemass, in 1958 decided, in consultation with Brendan O'Regan—to whom I have paid a tribute, even though it was only a small part of the tribute that is his due—that notwithstanding the advancement in technology, that airport and its immediately surrounding areas should be kept as prosperous as they had developed it in the previous ten years.

It was from that idea and with that object that SFADCo were founded in 1958 and 1959. Their primary objective, put in simple terms, was to save the airport. They achieved that objective magnificently. No matter what happens now in terms of air transport, I do not think Shannon Airport is in danger as an airport, because of what SFADCo did in the past 19 years.

Very properly, I thought, Deputy Desmond drew attention to something that is a phenomenon in this country, that if a body such as SFADCo are a success they should never rethink their existence or objectives. That is a popular fallacy in this sphere and I am glad to say that SFADCo do not share that easy way out. They realise they have achieved their prime objective and, with my encouragement, they will not simply lie on their oars and coast along in a cosy way. They are going out now to do again the kind of thing they started to do 20 years ago. They were given a task at that time by Deputy Lemass. They did that task superlatively. I am now giving them a task. I am asking them and encouraging them to do something for the whole country, a task which is even more vital. They realise the importance of that task, the importance of the development of small indigenous industries.

I said at the outset that I was gratified and encouraged by the enthusiasm with which they have accepted that task and I have every confidence they will succeed in meeting that challenge as well as they succeeded in meeting the challenges of the task of the past 20 years, particularly the vast one put to them at the end of the 1950s. Far from downgrading them, they are now being given, in respect of the area outside the airport, grant-giving powers. For the first time they will be their own masters in that respect. Those alleging downgrading will do well to remember that they had not the power to give a penny of assistance in the last 19 years. Now, for the first time, they are autonomous as far as their area is concerned. They will not be answerable to anybody except to me, and through me to the House. They are pleased at that situation, as indeed they should be. With the extra powers in addition to what they have, the powers now being given to them, I have every confidence in their ability to respond to an important challenge. That challenge is not important because I put it to them but because the needs of Ireland today demand that that kind of situation should be tackled successfully; and I cannot think of any semi-State body which is more likely to take on an innovative task of this kind, to face up to the difficulties that undoubtedly exist and to overcome them, than SFADCo. I wish them every success in this difficult challenge, this immensely important task, and I am glad to see they have the support of the great majority of the Members of this House in that task.

Mr. O'Donnell

I want to put two questions, one a matter of clarification. At the end of his speech the Minister said:

I am arranging that the IDA will resume full responsibility for industry other than small industry in the mid-west region.

At page 5 of his speech he said:

SFADCo and the IDA will continue to promote estuary locations for suitable new industry.

Could the Minister explain precisely what will be the role of SFADCo in estuarial matters?

Mr. O'Malley

I intended to deal with that because it was referred to in particular by Deputy Kit Ahern. Up to now, SFADCo had not a great deal of contact with the estuary as such. In so far as they dealt with industry, in the matter of location, they had a certain amount of contact, but as I understand it they have not had a great deal of development work in that regard. The reality is that in the future as in the past the IDA will have to promote the kind of major industries that will go into the estuary area. Certainly SFADCo can work away with the IDA as they have been working with them in that regard. The reality is that, in the future as well as in the past, the IDA will have to promote the kinds of major industry that will go into the estuary. In the future as in the past, I have no doubt they will have the assistance and co-operation of SFADCo. I am certain of that.

I said I am arranging that the IDA will resume full responsibility for industry other than small industry in the mid-west region. That is simply a statement.

Mr. O'Donnell

I was relating that to what the Minister said earlier. Despite the decision to give SFADCo exclusive powers for small industries, apparently the Minister is still assigning them a certain promotional role for industries located in the estuary. Is the Minister referring to small industries in the estuary or major industries?

Mr. O'Malley

They will be promoters of the small industries in the estuary and they will be the grant-giving authority. Up to now they have not been that. They have never been able to give any grants. So far as the large industries are concerned, as the regional organisation the IDA will continue to assist in whatever ways are open to them in the future as they have in the past in the promotion of major industries for the region of which I am hopeful there will be several.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Another brief question from Deputy O'Donnell. We cannot have a further debate.

Mr. O'Donnell

To what level of grant will SFADCo have this autonomous power which the Minister says he is assigning to them? Up to what level of grant will they have power to give to an industrialist within their assignment of autonomy? That is crucial to the whole debate.

Mr. O'Malley

These details have not been worked out as yet.

Mr. O'Donnell

That is where the confusion arises.

Mr. O'Malley

I assume it would be the appropriate level which exists at the moment which would be 60 per cent of £300,000, £180,000.

Mr. O'Donnell

In the case of an industry which it costs £100,000 to establish, 60 per cent.

Mr. O'Malley

That would be the maximum grant.

Mr. O'Donnell

In the case of an industry costing £250,000 the grant would be far greater. Up to what level will they have autonomy to give me a grant for the establishment of an industry?

Mr. O'Malley

If your fixed assets do not exceed £300,000——

Mr. O'Donnell

Is the Minister putting any limit on it?

Mr. O'Malley

That is the small industries limit at the moment. Of course, we can raise that if it seems advisable. I have already raised the small industries limit since I took office from £200,000 to £300,000. If I thought it necessary to do it again in a year's time, I could do it generally or specifically in relation to SFADCo. Therefore, they could be in a position to make grants to a maximum—I am not saying they will do it—approaching £200,000. At the moment they have no grant-giving powers outside Shannon Airport.

Question put and agreed to.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Next Stage?

Mr. O'Malley

Anois.

Mr. O'Donnell

Does the Minister wish to have the Bill today?

Mr. O'Malley

I do. It is not a Committee Stage Bill as the Deputy will appreciate.

Mr. O'Donnell

Is there an element of urgency?

Mr. O'Malley

There is. The share capital side of the development company is at exactly £25 million which is the present limit and has been for the past three months. They cannot operate without it.

Agreed to take remaining Stages today.