asked the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy if any studies have been carried out on the likely effect of the establishment of a zinc smelter in Ireland on agricultural yields in the neighbourhood of the smelter; and, if so, the findings and the extent to which they are being taken into account in the present planning of the smelter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Zinc Smelter.
11.
The effects, if any, of a zinc smelter on agricultural activity in the neighbourhood of the smelter were examined in the course of the smelter project study recently carried out by the New Jersey Zinc Company. The IDA and IIRS had provided information to the company on environmental conditions in Ireland with particular emphasis on the importance of agriculture and this information was incorporated in the study.
As the Deputy is aware, the company have informed me that they could not now commit themselves to proceed with the project on a basis that the smelter would be fully commissioned not later than 31 December 1981 and I have asked the IDA to report to me on the possible alternative courses which may now be open. In the circumstances I do not think it would serve any useful purpose at this stage to publish the information on the environmental aspects of the New Jersey Zinc project but the Deputy may be assured that these aspects have been and will continue to be given most careful attention.
When, in due course, the question of planning permission for construction of a smelter at a selected site arises, a detailed environmental impact statement, including the impact on agriculture, will be prepared as part of the planning application.
Would the Minister not consider it to be of general interest to the public and the farming community in particular to know the latest information in relation to the environmental impact of the smelter? If so, why will he not publish the findings of the only specific study of this matter carried out in an Irish context, namely the New Jersey Zinc study?
As I have told the Deputy, when a planning application is made, a detailed environmental impact statement including the impact on agriculture will be prepared as part of the planning application and will be available to the planning authority and to the public.
Would the Minister not agree that he, as Minister, must make up his mind as to policy, as to whether or not there should be a smelter and that environmental considerations are important in that context? Why then does he not wish the public to know the information that is available to him in this matter in making his decision?
The public will be aware of it as soon as an application is made. The question relates to the matter of the impact on agriculture. The public will be aware of that from the statement that will be lodged with the planning authority as soon as the application is made.
If the Deputy wishes to ask a supplementary question he should at least address the Chair. Argument across the floor of the House is not, and will not be permitted.
May I ask the Minister, through the Chair, is it not the case that he is pursuing a particular line of policy in this matter and as a publicly accountable person he should make available all the information on which he is basing his line of policy?
I have not made any decision on the matter. As I informed the Deputy in the reply, the new situation has now been referred to the IDA for their advice on the options that are open. The voluminous report which I have from New Jersey Zinc was prepared by them privately for their own benefit and for the benefit of myself and the IDA. At this stage, while they still have under contemplation the possibility of going ahead with this project at a somewhat later date than they had originally envisaged, I would not publish a report that must have cost them—at a guess —$200,000.
The Minister is losing his anxiety for a full——
No, I cannot publish private reports prepared for people at their expense without their consent when they still have under consideration the question whether they are going to go ahead.
Have you sought their consent?
I have not sought their consent because they told me they wanted to look at this matter again at some future time.
Arising out of the Minister's statement that this company do not wish to go ahead and that he has asked the IDA to look at other possibilities, may I ask if he has received an inquiry from the Soviet Union through the embassy here and if he has made available to the Soviet Union and their representatives full details and the specification of the smelter, required?
That is a separate question.
But I think it does arise from the answer which the Minister gave.
It may relate to it but it is definitely a separate question.
The question relates to the agricultural impact of the smelter and not to any broader issues. There is a broader question on the matter now.
But the Minister is not answering it.
When I am allowed to answer it, I shall do so.
12.
asked the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy (a) whether he has formed a view on the desirability of a zinc smelter, with or without major State financing, having regard to existing smelter capacity in the EEC and to current and prospective zinc prices; (b) whether he has calculated the volume of (i) direct and indirect employment and (ii) balance of payments advantage, that would result from the operation of a smelter and from possible downstream industrial development.
13.
asked the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy if, in view of the reported decision of the New Jersey Zinc Company not to proceed with the building of a smelter, he will now formulate plans for the construction of a State-owned smelter.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 12 and 13 together. Following the recent decision by New Jersey Zinc not to commit themselves at the present time to the construction of a zinc smelter in Ireland to be fully operational by the end of 1981 I have asked the IDA to review the position and to report to me as soon as practicable on the possible alternative courses which may now be open.
I think it is very important that, at this stage, all the options and possibilities for securing the establishment of a zinc smelter in this country should be fully reviewed. Among the questions which I have specifically asked the authority to study are the implications of a smelter project which would be controlled, or substantially controlled, by the State. A certain amount of work has already been done on identifying aspects where the implications of a State-controlled smelter would be particularly significant and these will be examined in depth.
As regards the matters specified in Deputy Kelly's question, these factors have, of course, an important bearing on both the commercial viability of the project and the general State interest in securing the construction of a smelter. They have been carefully analysed and taken into account in the studies of the project undertaken to date by the IDA and commercial interests. They will obviously be important ingredients in the review of options and possibilities which I have now asked the IDA to carry out.
As was indicated in the recent statement issued from my Department, the Government remain committed to the provision of a zinc smelter in this country at the earliest date and, following the IDA review, consideration will be given to measures which would be necessary and appropriate to achieve that objective.
In view of the long delay that has taken place and the abortive consequence of it in that we are not going to get a smelter, would not the Minister indicate to the IDA, who are notoriously hostile to State enterprise, that in the national interest this very valuable necessity should be considered as a State enterprise and that we should proceed on these lines instead of being at the mercy of market forces as in both the Tynagh case and the Spanish case?
The Deputy is using a lot of argument in his question.
I do not propose to limit the IDA's examination of the various possibilities and options. I should prefer that they would consider all options which they consider might be feasible and report to me on their feasibility. As I have indicated, the possibility of substantial State control of a smelter is one of those options.
Would the Minister not agree that the rejection by the American company, which is one of the most powerful and wealthy in the world, is based on simple profit and loss considerations and that there are very much more important considerations of human resources and mineral resources as applied to the national interest? In those circumstances is not a State enterprise obvious?
I do not accept the implication that the State should move in where a commercial loss is indicated. There are more considerations involved than profit and loss but it does not necessarily follow that the State is the propor vehicle to carry out this undertaking. The marketing difficulties in zinc are considerable, even if the price were at an adequate level, which it is not.
Would the Minister accept that one of the prime reasons for the pulling out of New Jersey Zinc was that they received absolutely no encouragement or personal interest from the Minister over a period of weeks and months and that one of the reasons for packing up was the general hostility of the Minister?
That is not so. They received the same encouragement as anybody else and there was no question of hostility.
Would the Minister confirm whether an approach has been made by the Soviet Government and if the specification of the smelter and related details have been provided to them so that they can be invited to do what New Jersey Zinc are apparently incapable of doing?
That question is not on the Order Paper.
I might say that information on the likely capacity of a smelter and the type of ore concerned and other general information of that kind was provided to representatives of the Soviet Embassy, but the proposals that they have made in regard to a smelter are not very detailed and are similar in nature to general proposals about the supply of equipment and plant which were made by a number of companies some time ago.
Would the Minister agree that despite their indication of interest last January, and the referral of that by the Minister to the IDA, it is strange that the Soviet Union have heard nothing since from the Minister or the IDA?
They had a long meeting with the IDA and people from my Department within the past two or three weeks.
My information is that they did not hear anything.
The Russian Embassy must have misinformed the Deputy.
Is the study which the Minister has asked the IDA to undertake related purely to a smelter? A smelter is only one link in the chain. There are industries, particularly those supplying the car assembly industry, where the zinc would be used. Are the IDA being asked to explore the possibility of getting these industries here so that if zinc smelting becomes popular in the future we could utilise it?
They are, but subject to the fact that it is unreal for the IDA to plan downstream industrial activity until there is a certainty that there will be a smelter. I would not say that they have done detailed work on that as yet. There was in the New Jersey Zinc proposals some reference to downstream activity and certainly the IDA would take that into account.
I disagree totally with the Minister. Because the price of zinc is so low the smelter is not profitable but that makes other industries more profitable. The IDA should seek such industries before we have the smelter and the smelter can be built afterwards.
The usage of zinc is going through a marked transitional period at present and the traditional uses of it, some of which were mentioned by the Deputy, are falling off very seriously. One sees the future usage of zinc in other areas, perhaps in some of the batteries being developed in the United States based on zinc rather than lead.
If I come across someone who may be interested, will the Minister undertake to examine the case?
Certainly.