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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 27 Apr 1978

Vol. 305 No. 11

Private Notice Question: - CIE Fare Increases.

asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport why the recent exorbitant increases in CIE fares were sanctioned by the Government; and if he will take immediate steps to have this decision reviewed in order to alleviate hardship on the travelling public.

, Dublin South Central): In February 1978 CIE submitted proposals for increases in fares and rates from 1 May 1978 to meet increases in labour, materials and other costs.

The CIE proposals have been examined by the National Prices Commission and in their report for March 1978 the commission have recommended that no objection be raised to the proposed increases on the basis that the projected additional revenue which the increases would yield falls significantly short of the increases in CIE's costs allowable for price increase purposes.

The CIE proposals and the NPC recommendations thereon have been considered by the Government who have decided that, having regard to the already high level of Exchequer subvention for CIE, the board should be permitted to implement the proposed increases in fares and rates from 1 May 1978.

Without an increase in rates and fares CIE's net deficit in 1978, taking account of the increased costs I have mentioned, would amount to over £41 million. I feel that it would be unreasonable to place this burden entirely on the shoulders of taxpayers. The users of public transport should bear at least part of the increased costs and accordingly it is not proposed to review the decision.

Another form of hidden taxation.

Is it not a fact that CIE will still have a deficit of something in the region of £5 million after payment of the current subsidy and after the current proposed price increases?

(Dublin South-Central): CIE are carrying out a re-organisation policy at the moment and it is hoped that during the year it will yield results.

It is estimated that the deficit will be £5 million for 1978. Will the Minister give us a guarantee that there will be no further increases, deficit or no deficit, for the remainder of the year?

(Dublin South-Central): The subvention allowable to CIE for 1978 is £30 million based on the costing of a 5 per cent national wage agreement.

Which is a 10 per cent reduction on last year's subsidy.

(Dublin South-Central): It is not a reduction.

Last year it was £33.8 million.

(Dublin South-Central): The original estimate last year was £30 million.

The subsidy last year was £33.8 million. This year it was cut to £30 million. I am looking for a guarantee from the Minister that, if there is a deficit, it will not be passed on to the travelling public in the next couple of months.

(Dublin South-Central): The original subvention last year was £30 million. Later in the year, perhaps due to the fact that the then Government failed to curb inflation, they had to bring in a subvention for an additional £3 million. Now that inflation has been reduced—

Was the subsidy paid to CIE in 1977 £33.8 million?

(Dublin South-Central): At the end of the year, yes, but the original estimate was £30 million.

How is it defensible to increase the fares of school-going children by in excess of 20 per cent, even allowing for the budgetary difficulties, the Minister is experiencing apparently?

(Dublin South-Central): The school transport subvention is received by CIE from the Department of Education. The Deputy should address that question to that Department.

(Interruptions.)

We cannot have a debate on this matter. I will allow one supplementary from Deputy Quinn and one from Deputy O'Toole, and then we will get on with the business.

Would the £8 million which was forfeited this year by the abolition of wealth tax have made he increase in fares unnecessary?

That is a separate question.

Let him answer it.

Why should he?

The Minister gave out about his colleagues speaking out of . He is not the Minister for Tourism and Transport.

Could I ask the Minister to give a guarantee to the House that he will not increase CIE fares again if there is a deficit?

What was Deputy Barry Minister for?

A number of things, very successfully.

I put it to the Minister that the 21.4 per cent increase in school fares as sanctioned by the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy, is the responsibility of his Department and not that of the Department of Education as he said.

(Dublin South-Central): The Deputy should look at some of the increases in other years. In 1976 we had 33? per cent right across the board.

(Interruptions.)

All the new boys are shouting.

We are learning from Fianna Fáil.

I am calling the next business. I have allowed a long time on this question.

I asked the Minister to answer a question and he has refused to do so.

That is not the fault of the Chair.

Do I take it the Minister will not give a guarantee that he will not increase fares?

(Dublin South-Central): We aim at making companies efficient. That will be our objective in the coming year.

That is not the primary objective of public transport.

I have called the next business.

Let us get the country moving again at 25 per cent extra.

Order. I allowed a Private Notice Question. I gave it ten minutes and there can be no more debate on it.

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