asked the Minister for Education if it is now possible for him to list the educational interests he proposes to consult in relation to his proposed White Paper on educational development, as outlined in his reply to Question No. 30 of 15 November 1977; and if he will list them.
Ceisteanna—Questions . Oral Answers . - Educational Development White Paper .
17.
: Full consultation of all interests and relevant documents will take place before publication of the White Paper.
: Can the Minister say whether any consultations have yet taken place between officials of his Department or himself and anybody outside his Department in relation to the proposed White Paper?
: There is a draft in course of preparation and consultations have taken place with educationalists but there has not been any general consultation. On the basis of a draft we may have a better opportunity of eliciting ideas from various organisations and teacher interests.
: Can the Minister tell the House why he does not find it possible to list the interests he has consulted?
: I am sure the Deputy, who was an educational journalist, knows without my telling him that the people involved would include trade unions, parents, managerial organisations and so on. The Deputy knows quite well who would be consulted.
: Would the Minister not accept that the purpose of the question was not necessarily to inform myself but so that the Minister might inform the population in general, who were not all education correspondents, and that it would be a matter of courtesy to list the organisation he has consulted?
: If the Deputy finds me lacking in courtesy I regret it but it was not my intention to be so in any way.
: In view of the apparently very wide ambit, perhaps encouragingly so, of the proposed consultations the Minister intends having, might I ask him to elaborate slightly on the type of consultation he envisages because possible fear could arise out of what he has said that these consultations would go on for ever? Would the Minister's definition of "consultation" be that talks would continue until he comes round to their point of view? Has the Minister got set views on the nature of the consultations? Will he be putting these views to the bodies involved, or will it be merely a general chat which would put off any decision?
: I am committed to producing a White Paper. I will produce the White Paper. I will consult the recognised teaching and school associations and I will deliver.
: Deliver what?
: The previous administration promised Green Papers, White Papers and a monster called the pre-legislative document but we never saw it.
: That was before my time——
(Interruptions.)
: May we take it from the Minister's reply that it is positive policy on his part not to list the interests he has consulted? Could he tell us when the draft—on the basis of which he will be carrying out further consultations with further unnamed interests—will be ready?
: I am not one who subscribes to the conspiratorial idea of society to which Deputy Horgan appears to subscribe in which everything is a conspiracy. He knows quite well that the organisations to be consulted are known to everybody. The parents, organisations, the teaching organisations and the managerial organisations are well known to everybody who has any interest in education in this country. I would remind the Deputy that there are at present 885,000 people approximately in fulltime education in this country and that the country is particularly well informed with regard to who represents the various interests in education.
: What advice would the Minister give to any organisation that felt that it ought to have been consulted but has not?
: I would advise either an individual or an organisation who has anything to contribute to communicate with my Department with a view to the production of this White Paper.