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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 29 Jun 1978

Vol. 307 No. 14

Green Paper on Development for Full Employment: Adjournment Debate (Resumed) .

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That Dáil Éireann
"Development for Full Employment"; and
(ii) at its rising this week do adjourn for the Summer recess.
—(The Taoiseach.)

: I would like to speak on one or two aspects of the Green Paper. There are many issues which are important and worth debating but I must make the best use, in common with other contributors to the debate, of the time available to me.

I want to pick up the proposals in Chapter 6 of the Green Paper for what is described as "further action on employment". The intention of these proposals is to seek to abolish unemployment completely by the end of 1983. It is interesting to note that so far in the debate no speaker on the other side has given any recognition to, or accepted, the fact that the proposals are in that form, and much of the outside comment in the media likewise appears to be unaware of the basic purpose and intention behind these proposals.

While there has been a fair amount of comment inside and outside the House on the contribution which work sharing arrangements could make towards producing some increase in employment numbers in the case of those out of work and of our young people leaving school, there has been no reference to the elements grouped under what is described as a residual job creation programme. Yet, irrespective of the contributions which might come from any work sharing arrangements, it would still be necessary to operate some at least of those further proposals for employment in order to ensure that there could be a total abolition of unemployment. For instance, in face of the present system whereunder people out of work go along to an employment exchange to sign on for benefit, and so on, they would go along to an office of the Manpower Service and be directed to some from of alternative employment or to a training programme. We would thereby be substituting training for work in place of unemployment.

There are a number of elements put forward by which this residual programme of job creation could be operated. I will deal with three. There is a reference to extending the activities of the National Manpower Service. There is a reference to extending training programmes and there is a reference to extending employment in various forms of community service. To take the first, extending the activities of the National Manpower Service, it would be envisaged that this service would become a much more active agent in establishing, first of all, employment opportunities in the private sector within their own area and also in identifying the training needs of firms in that area so that they could have the appropriate training programes organised with AnCO, plus establishing the nature of the seasonal or other short-term employment which firms might be able to offer in lieu of having to rely on over-time working by their existing employees. It would be envisaged that, in order to operate this much more active programme of placing people in employment, the National Manpower Service itself might become an employer so that it could itself retain enough people on its staff and have them available to supply some of the temporary or short-term needs of firms in their particular service area. That is one element.

On the training side, as I said, part of that could arise from fuller information which the National Manpower Service would collect from firms in the area. There would also be need, much greater need as the years go on, to expand and develop not only training programmes but re-training programmes, because the pace of modern technological change is such that it is becoming increasingly inappropriate to supply people with a period of training after they complete their formal education and then certify them as qualified for a particular skill or occupation and leave them with that initial training as their only way of functioning in their chosen skill or occupation for the remainder of their working lives. Yet, the methods and techniques employed in their particular occupation may change dramatically, not once, but several times in the 30 or 40 years' span of active working life. I think, therefore, we will want to develop a much more positive programme for re-training people at different stages of their working lives.

The third element suggested as a way of providing worth-while employment opportunities would be through an expansion of various community services. It does not much matter at this stage whether we think of these proposals in terms of their being additions to environmental improvements programmes, whether they operate as ancillary to some of the educational or training programmes, whether they take the form of additions to home care and community health services, whereby one can develop a tendency towards caring for people in their own homes and their own environment rather than institutionalising them when they need any level of treatment beyond some trivial minimum; there is a variety of opportunities of that nature for worth-while valuable employment that would benefit the people themselves and the community of which they are a part.

As I said, the details of such schemes are not important at this juncture. Neither are the particular numbers who would be employed in these, because obviously the actual numbers would depend on the extent of the employment increase that would take place in other sectors, be it in industry or service activities of one kind or another, and would depend also on the extent to which employment opportunities would be created through any work sharing proposals. Whatever the number, whenever those first two components of employment increase occur, there will still be some need for a residual job creation programme of the kind outlined in Chapter 6 of this document. Operated fully and effectively, it would mean that we could evolve a situation wherein there would always be a job or a form of training available to anyone seeking work. I would have thought that would have been a fairly important and significant proposal. Yet, as I said, it has met with what is usually described as "a deafening silence" from the other side of the House.

: That is because we were stunned.

: The Opposition were stunned all right. I am disappointed at the Opposition's reaction to these proposals. If they think they are impracticable, let them say so. If they think there is a superior alternative, let them say so. If they think we should not seek to aim at full employment, let them say so. Let them say something. What we have had from the Opposition is a prolonged attempt to evade and confuse the issue and to sidetrack into discussions of items which, while perhaps important in their own right, I do not regard as of any comparative importance to a proposal of this nature.

: The Minister will realise that this debate is not just about the Green Paper. Every Deputy who contributes, except the first and last, is obliged to deal with the Green Paper and with the Government's performance in 30 minutes, and that is not easy.

: I agree, but I am making the point that of the people who have spoken——

: The Minister could not do it himself.

: If Deputies opposite want to argue that they are not in a position to debate it, they should have stayed quiet until they were. On one occasion I even suggested that I would prefer if an Opposition speaker stayed quiet until he had an opportunity to study the document, but he insisted as a practising politician that he had to be fully equipped to comment at the earliest possible moment. Let us judge him on the comments made.

: Can we have another debate as soon as the Dáil resumes?

: I have no objection.

: I suggest we finish this debate first.

: I am making the point that we have had either this deafening silence or attempts to side-track into far less important issues. The reason for this can be found in the absence of any alternative policy on the part of the Opposition parties. I have seen no attempt to put forward an alternative from the Fine Gael side. Judging by the tenor of the remarks made by a number of their speakers, I have to assume that the essence of their position is that the worst of the recession was over some time in 1976, the economy was recovering, growth was taking place, employment was starting to rise—or was it? We are not very clear on that—and all would have been well if things had been left alone and the economy would have been able to continue on some path of further growth and progress in the years ahead.

: That is a very fair statement.

: I am glad the Deputy agrees, because if this kind of growth had occurred we had to ask whether any increase in employment would have taken place. The last statement I can find that would coincide with this kind of policy position was contained in a previous Green Paper published almost two years ago by the Coalition. It talked about a possible pattern of growth in the period up to 1980. Without producing any basis whatsoever for it, it envisaged a growth rate of something in the region of 6 per cent as against 7 per cent. There is an incredibly spurious and inaccurate estimate of the increase that could take place in industrial employment. If I moderate that and calculate it on the same basis as our own Green Paper projections, it would be fair to say that employment might rise by about 8,000 to 10,000 a year on the Coalition's Green Paper approach. That would mean that there would be still more than 100,000 unemployed in 1980. The nearest I can get to a statement of what I would regard as the Fine Gael position would be that there was no longer scope for any job creation through additional Government spending; there was a sufficient recovery taking place in output, thanks to the international recovery and so on, and that would have been sufficient for our purposes. That sufficiency would have meant that more than 100,000 were unemployed right through to 1980.

If that is their position, let it be put on the record and go out from this House that Fine Gael do not believe there is scope for any significant impact on our unemployment problems in the years ahead. That has to be their position, because not once has any of their spokesmen implied that it might be even remotely possible or credible to aim for this goal of unemployment. The opening Fine Gael speaker took the opposite tack. Instead of trying to consider the Green Paper proposals with any element of seriousness, he tried what I can describe as the crude political gimmick of referring to me as a very nice man, a decent chap, but an academic who should be back at university setting students examination papers for the summer. The inference was that you should treat the Green Paper in the same light, as a nice essay for examination purposes, but having nothing to do with the real world.

We can debate the merits of my academic or political capabilities on another occasion. The point I want to draw from it is that clearly Fine Gael do not believe that any attempts to approach full employment belong to the world of reality, that for practical purposes practical men should accept the high and continuing level of unemployment right through into the 1980s. If that is not correct will they please put their alternative policy on the record, but not now because I have only a few minutes. Perhaps a late Fine Gael speaker will do that. I waited for quite a long time to see if there was any policy proposal but have not heard it.

The Labour Party could claim to have an alternative. Their opening speaker, their Leader Deputy Cluskey, spent his time not actually talking about the contents of the Green Paper but instead, including in rather cheap and irrelevant political asides—he would be better advised leading his own party—and in conclusion he said he thought the Green Paper was a gimmick and irrelevant and that the Labour Party had an alternative, the socialist alternative. I was waiting to hear what this socialist alternative was and I never heard it, and I do not think anybody else did either.

I attempted to see if we could get any further information on it. I found summaries of earlier speeches by Deputy Cluskey in which he said that the policy of the Labour Party was to aim for full employment. He said that "the socialist message of labour is relevant. That message is simple. It is that the solution to our major problems lies in the direction of the planned application of the common sense of ordinary people." That is a marvellous way of telling us that although the Labour Party want to plan for full employment, they have no intention of doing it for themselves. Instead they propose to round up ordinary people with common sense. They do not supply any definition of either "common sense" or "ordinary people". I am not even sure if you have to be a supporter or an opponent of the Labour Party to qualify for inclusion in this category. I assume, by the voting patterns of last June, that the majority of the people would be disqualified if support for the Labour Party policies is to be one of the criteria. I do not know how they are going to get their planned application of the common sense of the ordinary people. They might get the application of a minority of their own but they should recognise that it is a minority.

I was hoping we would get a little more information about the planned application of common sense. We are told that planning is essential. By planning they do not mean a reheated, repackaged version of the discredited economic programmes of the past. They mean a cohesive national strategy for economic and social development based upon clear and democratically accepted goals with policy instruments and planning structures designed to mobilise all sectors in a true partnership in their pursuits. From that we discover that whatever will be in the future it must be different from the past, but we are not told in what way it must differ. In this Green Paper you are given proposals which are different from the past and what do we get? No response or reaction of any kind.

A number of other speakers from the Labour Party implied that they were putting forward a socialist alternative. This morning I listened to my constituency colleague, Deputy Desmond. Having first tried to apply the cheap political label that the Green Paper was a type of Tory manifesto, he eventualy got around to implying that there was a socialist alternative and the various things that could be done, but every item he listed, except one, was already contained in the Green or White Papers. When he eventually got round to implying that there was a socialist alternative and the various things that could be done every single one of the items he listed was contained already in the Green Paper or the White Paper except one. The only exception I could discover in the remarks of other Labour Party speakers was the suggestion that we ought to create a State development corporation.

: Very important.

: We will see about that. If other speakers did not actually use that phrase they spoke about a greatly expanded role for the State, greater public involvement, public investment and so on. First of all, we have not ever been told the nature of the investments and the jobs that would be created by this State corporation or by an expanded public investment programme. Perhaps these opportunities exist. If they do is it not in the interests of the nation that they should tell us what these investment opportunities are, how much they will cost, how many jobs they will provide and what sort of skills will be needed for them. I am sure any Government concerned at the well-being of the people would gladly follow through investigate and involve themselves in any worth-while proposals of that kind. But we never had any——

: That is fair enough, but the main part of the Labour Party's objection is that the private sector alone is not willing or capable of taking this up.

: That is a separate argument and I will take it at another time. I take it I am getting injury time if I lose some of my precious minutes?

: As I said yesterday, it is not the World Cup. The Minister should not be interrupted.

: I do not mind the interruptions provided I get my 30 minutes deducted from their side. If I may reply, as a digression, it is a separate question about how much the private sector can or cannot do. We have never said that we expect the whole of the development to come from the private sector. Our whole argument is that there has to be a balance or a mixture of both public and private initiative. We can legitimately debate the relative merits or emphasis to be placed on either side. That is a separate debate.

If we are to believe that the socialist alternative, if it is an alternative, would consist essentially of the provision of all these extra jobs by some programme of a State investment could we make clear how much would be involved, because, on a crude calculation, if one is to say one does not like, does not believe or dismisses proposals to create 65,000 jobs as set forth in Chapter 6 of the Green Paper; if instead one is going to provide 65,000 jobs in some mythical industries not yet known, if they are like other industries, the average investment cost now would be in the region of £30,000 per job. I hope the House will agree that that is a modest estimate because we know that in some capital-intensive industries investment per job can be of the order of £300,000 or more. But I will take the modest figure of £30,000 as being not unrepresentative. To do that for 65,000 jobs gives one an investment requirement of almost £2,000,000,000. Therefore, that mean that the socialist alternative—even if they had the investment opportunities available tomorrow—calls for finding another £400 million a year for each of the next five years to produce jobs by their alternative. Therefore, even if they find the jobs, would they also please tell us where they propose to find that additional money?

: Of course the Minister's estimates for job creation resulted in a net figure; in other words, a saving. It would have to be scaled down by net saving and scaled up by the net profit to the Exchequer by the availability of those jobs.

: The net savings are set out in Chapter 6. I think it is expected to save something in the order of £200 million, so we can be modest and knock it down to £1,800 million. If the Deputy want to make a case for the Exchequer benefiting more than that we would need to know details of the actual investments. Certainly if one applies normal wage rates and normal tax rates one would get a figure significantly different from the £20 million I have mentioned. That is the basis of my argument: if there is socialist alternative, let us hear it and have it. But I do not believe there is because——

: The Minister's Party kept their plans very secret from the electorate.

: The Minister has only eight or nine minutes to finish and he should finish without interruption.

: No, we did not. We published the first version of our proposals in September 1976. The Caolition Government of the day paid us the compliment of taking back their Green Paper from the printer hastily ripping out a few of its chapters and re-writing them to try to take account of some of the views we were putting forward. They paid us the further compliment of implementing the first phase of our proposal in their last budget in January 1977. Therefore, we did not keep our proposals secret; we put them forward the appropriate time. I am glad to say that they had at least some belated, if only half-hearted, effect on the Coalition. If they want to win support for their socialist alternative they might please tell the people the nature of that alternative, and how and why that will deliver a superior performance to the proposals we are now advocating.

There were a few other sort of irrelevant and inaccurate digressions entered into in order to take up time and imply that the Green Paper was faulty, defective or would create problems in other respects. In the limited few minutes remaining I will have to deal with them rather briefly. Deputy Pattison, my opposite number on the Labour benches, was saying, for instance, that there was going to be an attack on levels of social welfare services, that this was typical of Fianna Fáil, that it was only in the period of Coalition there had been any worth-while and substantial improvement in the social welfare services. This is simply not true. While there were reasonably large increases in money terms during the Coalition's period in office, most of those money increases were swallowed by the massive inflation of the last four years. Looking at the figures, as I calculate them, it would seem that, in real terms, the average increases in all the basic social welfare benefits— old age pensions, unemployment assistance and so on—was of the order of 2 per cent a year during the Coalition's term of office.

I went back and looked at what had happened during the previous five or six years of Fianna Fáil Government. I discovered that the increases ranged between 4½ and 6 per cent a year; in other words, on average they were 2½ times greater than the increases recorded between 1973 and 1977. Finally, looking at the position this year it would seem that overall the increase will comfortably exceed the 2 per cent of the Coalition's term. Depending on how it is measured it ranges between 4 and 6 per cent. Therefore, far from there being any attack on the poorest or weakest sections of the community, facts show that they have consistently done better during Fianna Fáil terms of government than during the Coalition's term. I have absolutely no doubt that we will be able to maintain our proud record in that area right up to the next election whenever that may come about. We must put things like that on the record.

In the two minutes remaining there are a number of other points I should have liked to have dealt with. I see that Deputy Kelly has left the House. He was waxing eloquent earlier about prices and quoted from lots of documents. I was worried about different interpretations and so on. I was going to ask him would he please just quote the manifesto because that said quite clearly that we aimed to achieve a 2 per cent reduction in prices, through our specific policy changes, and that that allied to the expected improvement in the international situation, would produce a 7 per cent inflation rate this year. Of course, that is what has happened.

Deputy Fitzpatrick was saying that publication this morning by the ESRI of a more pessimistic projection than the Government's proposals would shake confidence and so on. I have to say I do not share that view.

(Cavan-Monaghan): What I said was that the Green Paper itself would shake confidence, and this morning's publication on top of that.

: Frankly, I do not see why. First of all the Green Paper asserts our adherence to a policy which we first enunciated more than 18 months ago, which we have followed consistently and which we propose to continue implementing. I would have thought that any person worried about the future would at least see that there is a far greater degree of consistency and coherence in our policy position than in the constant yo-yoing that used to take place in the Coalition's days.

The Economic and Social Research Institute have published a more pessimistic forecast, but even if their forecast is right the growth rate achieved by us is among the highest in our history and I do not see why that should be a source for pessimism or loss of confidence in our future. We would be performing very well not only by comparison to our history but we would be out-performing our partners in the EEC which is something to be proud of. I do not agree with the ESRI report; there are always a range of opinions in any professional body, and one cannot predict the future with certainty so we can only wait and see. The only evidence available for this year supports our view and not theirs.

(Cavan-Monaghan): The doctors differ and patients die.

: Yes, but the evidence supports us rather than them. They have a rather pessimistic growth rate of 7½ per cent for industrial output, and we have a more optimistic growth rate of 10 per cent, and figures out this morning show 9.9 per cent for the first quarter in manufacturing industry and something over 10 per cent for the whole of the transportable goods area. So far, we are more justified in our projections than they.

: The Minister has about one minute.

: While all of these things may be important in their own right, the discussions on the level of social welfare services, taxation policies and what happens if there are variations in growth rates and so forth, no one has bothered to talk about the basic proposal which is, will we aim for full employment at the earliest possible date? The earliest possible date is something like five years. We can achieve it provided we get enough support and co-operation from the various sections of the community. That is the essential issue that must be faced, the issue that divides the Government from the Opposition parties. We say quite clearly that it can be done, and, so far, the Opposition parties have been saying not so clearly that it cannot be done. Let the Opposition parties go out and say that to the young people especially, let them tell the young people that they do not believe they have a future, that they will not get jobs and that they will have to emigrate or else hang around the street corners for the next 10 or 15 years.

(Cavan-Monaghan): Provide the jobs, stop the talking and writing.

: Stop the emigration.

: That is what we are doing. That is the position of the Opposition parties. The Opposition parties have nothing of a constructive or positive nature to contribute.

: Listening to the Minister, I wonder if he is speaking about the Kildare Street Club thinking, and has he lost touch with the ordinary person. Does the Minister fully realise the present economic state of the country? The Minister was given very difficult job and has approached the problem of how to achieve full employment to the best of his ability. It will be a happy day for us when we have full employment. There are many ways to solve unemployment but what has the Minister or the Government come up with? The Minister is juggling with figures and playing with papers but there are still long queues at the employment exchanges. The huge majority the Government got at the last general election gave them a chance to prove themselves. Their manifesto won them massive unprecedented support. They change portfolios and created new post which were welcomed, but there are still big jobs to be done here. The White Paper that was produced recent promised to end unemployment with five years. The Minister for Finance last Sunday on the radio repeated the promise, and yesterday the Taoiseach in opening the Adjournment Debate backed the Green Paper and committed himself to achieving promises. When Deputy Lynch was Taoiseach from 1966 to 1973 Fianna Fáil failed to provide full employment. When they left office in 1973 there were 75,000 on the unemployment queues. Now, we are being asked believe that the Minister has some magic ingredient that will provide 100,000 jobs within five years. The Green Paper is no more than a smokescreen. The Minister is attempting to hoax the unfortunate unemployed yet again.

: I do not know how the Deputy can describe specific proposals as a smokescreen. The Deputy can say that he does not like them or that they will not work.

: It is a complete smokescreen. Since the inception of this debate you have managed it more that anybody else.

: Through the Chair, Deputy, and no interruptions from anyone else.

: Will the Leas-Cheann Comhairle allow me lost time as well? This morning in the newspapers there was a report by the ESRI on the Irish economy and on the Minister's famous Green Paper. They do not believe that the employment target outlined in the Green Paper can be achieved.

: On present policy.

: This is an independent institute which is widely respected throughout the country. Who are we to believe in relation to future employment prospects, the Government or the Economic and Social Research Institute? We may be forgiven for taking the word of the ESRI which has been commenting favourably on the Irish economy for over two decades and which enjoys the highest reputation for its accuracy and, more important, its honesty. These, regrettably, are not characteristics for which the Minister's party are noted. We would all be happy that the unemployment figure is falling if it were not for one very disturbing factor, the reappearance of that cancerous, horrible thing that has been with us since Fianna Fáil started to rule this country and before that—emigration. I believe it is now running in the region of 14,000 or 15,000.

: It is not as high as that.

: Ten thousand or 1,000, it does not make any difference to me. It is the emigration of beautiful Irish boys and girls. I do not know whether the Deputy ever had to emigrate but I had to.

: We reduced emigration from 55,000 to zero in 1972.

: No interruptions please,

: Last year the boys and girls were told that this was their country. There was a beautiful song telling them to remain at home and they would be given employment. They were not told that it would take five or six years to give them full employment. I was not a member of the Coalition Government, I only became a member of this Kildare Street club 12 months ago, but in fairness to the Coalition Government they could claim that their song was "Come Back to Erin". For the first time since the inception of this State that cry went out from this House. Emigrants were told: "Come back. We have work for you. We need you." I am not trying to defend the record of the Coalition but I like to talk about facts. We must not just talk about a few select people. We must talk about all the people whether there are itinerants, winos or wealth tax merchants. Every Irish man and Irish woman is entitled to be given a decent standard of living here in this Green Isle. It belongs to the people of Ireland and their right is full employment.

Fianna Fáil produced a manifesto which fooled the people. All credit to them for pulling such a fantastic trick. It was the greatest piece of gimmickry that was ever perpetrated in any country. They are good at that. However, our young men and women are intelligent people and they are not worried about what happened long ago. They are interested in a decent standard of living, and only if the Government can produce the goods will they be returned to office.

I have been here 12 months and I have been disillusioned, disappointed and disgusted. This paper, whether it is green, blue or black, is just another paper. Live horse and you will get grass. The Government are exporting people, they are promising to keep them here and there is no way they can do it. The Minister and his party should be ashamed of themselves. Emigration should never have been allowed to reappear. We have the richest, the best and most beautiful country and any Irishman or indeed foreigner would be only too pleased to live in it. Instead our people must emigrate. The infamous Green Paper clearly indicates that Fianna Fáil intend to rob the poor to pay for their election promises to a select body of people, the rich. They will do this by abolishing food subsidies which now run at £75 million a year. They were introduced by the last Government on essential foodstuffs. Recently the EEC increased the price of dairy produce such as butter and cheese. Fianna Fáil did not increase the food subsidies— they said they had no money—so the price of butter has gone up by 6½p a pound. The price of bread has been increased and also cheese.

What has the Minister for Industry. Commerce and Energy to say about these increases? Nothing. When he was Opposition spokesman he was never off the television and radio and was never slow to condemn Senator Justin Keating for permitting price increases. At least his predecessor had the courage to put his name to authorisations for price increases. The present Minister hides behind the Prices Commission and the skirts of that beautiful Minister of State, Mrs. Geoghegan-Quinn. Do not forget that the procedure for price increases is the same as it was in Justin Keating's time. The Minister must approve increases. The Minister should admit his responsibility and have the courage to face the public. Whether he knows it or not, people are aware that he is the person responsible for price increases. He appeared on television so often when he was in opposition that I confused him with Gay Byrne and Mike Murphy. That is the man who now hides behind a most beautiful and able lady, his Minister of State.

What has happened to the promises made in the election manifesto? We were promised full dissemination at least once a week through the media of comparative prices of the most frequently purchased consumer goods. Why is the Minister afraid of price increases? Why have all his promises been squashed? One could classify him as an anonymous minister for price control. I do not want to be too critical of the Minister, but when he was in Opposition he was the most vocal member of his party in criticising the actions of the Government. No one can claim greater responsibility than the present Minister for Senator Justin Keating losing his seat at the last election. That is my humble opinon but I am sure it is shared by many people inside and outside this House. Senator Justin Keating who was one of the finest legislators in Dáil Éireann, lost his seat because his shadow pressed him so hard and got so much publicity. Senator Justin Keating never shirked his responsibilities. He was honest enough to claim responsibility and to tell us that he could not control prices. We have no economic crisis now. We have been promised full employment in five years and have been told that there is great growth in our economy, yet all the time there are price increases. Nothing has changed in regard to price increases, which are ultimately the responsibility of the man who shouted so loudly and got so much publicity that he was responsible for Senator Keating's defeat.

There were many closures in a short space of time, including the closure of two factories in the Shannon area. At that time we had a great champion in the person of the present Minister. He took full advantage of the situation. It was regrettable that these industries had to close, but Deputy O'Malley got maximum publicity at the time. What has he done since he took over the job? People in Limerick felt that he was going to create new industries or re-open some of the closed ones but so far nothing has happened. Greater tragedy has happened in our area. I do not want to go over the Ferenka affair again but I do not know who is to blame for it. When people are given the responsibilities of Government we must assume that they are to blame. The people of Limerick will be the best judges of the matter at the next general election. Thank God we are dealing with an intelligent electorate today.

I am not satisfied with the performance of the IDA in my area. I would be serving the best interests of the people I represent if I were to call for a sworn public inquiry into their performance. How do they attract new industries? What are their standards in providing support for new industries and how effective are they in spending taxpayers' money? In view of my dissatisfaction with their operations, I have no alternative but to ask for an inquiry so that the people of Limerick can be assured that Government money is being properly spent. They have no such assurance at present. The people have no confidence in the IDA or in the Minister. Therefore, I am calling for a sworn inquiry into the operations of the IDA.

I welcomed the recent Road Traffic Bill. But I fear the Government did not go far enough. If a person is found guilty of drunken driving, it is up to the courts to decide what to do, but I feel sorry for a human being when he alone must take responsibility for his actions despite the fact that when inebriated or under the influence of drink a person cannot be held responsible for his actions. I suggest that when the Minister is reconsidering the legislation he should provide that the man who sold the last drink to the person charged with drunken driving, the publican should also be made responsible. The carnage on Irish roads is terrible and I welcome the Minister's legislation except that it does not go far enough; there are more people involved. I also say in this House that anybody attempting to have a case of this nature withdrawn or quashed should himself be charged, whoever it may be. I hope the same law will apply to the Mick Lippers, the Ministers, the judiciary. the Garda and everybody else. Let us be honest and sincere if we are trying to do something towards reducing and, please God, eliminating fatal accidents on the roads. Nobody should be excluded from the law.

Also, when the Minister is reviewing this Bill I hope he will include those that I feel contribute in a big way to drunken driving, the people who serve the drink. They should also be held responsible because when they get a licence to operate that business they are giving an assurance to the licensing authorities that they will conduct their business in a fit and proper way. Surely to allow a person to leave your premises as a drunken man and put him in charge of a vehicle, is actually to give him a machine gun. Who will pull the trigger? That is what I should like the Minister to consider. The present Bill does not go far enough. One could not expect the Minister to say that but I can say it; he certainly did not go far enough.

: I sat here for about four hours last night and for a long time today to find out the opinion of various speakers on the economy and particularly in connection with the discussion document, the Green Paper. A very prominent journalist said last week that there would be a very big debate this week on the adjournment and that he feared the Opposition would talk themselves out of it if they were not careful and did not have alternatives to put up. That is what I think they are doing. I farm 50 acres of land and if somebody comes to tell me I am making a mess of the job or that I cannot do what I propose to do—that is what the Green Paper talks about—I would say "Can you give me your alternative?" If he cannot do that I could become very nasty and say "Get off my premises when you cannot tell me how to go right but say I am going wrong."

There are many options in the Green Paper that I do not agree with. Deputy Andrews said the same thing. But the Green Paper is a courageous discussion document for all concerned with the economy. I shall not bore the House telling about the parts of the manifesto Fianna Fáil have already put into operation. That has been done by various speakers. Irrespective of what is said here, the public and the newspapers seem to think we are doing fairly well, although not as well as some of us would like in the past 12 months. But we are now at a vital stage when a document is produced to plan the policy of Fianna Fáil and the Government of the next four years. The Government are doing something that the people want; they want positive not negative thinking. The Government are putting their head on the block and telling the young people: "We want to provide employment for youth. We have a programme which we think can achieve this. Some of us may have reservations about full employment but at least there is a commitment in the paper that if certain things are done and certain options accepted, we can produce full employment." This is a very bold statement but it has been made. The Government will be held responsible for making it. You certainly will not cod the people and the young people will watch to see what will happen. I am convinced that if we are able to do what is proposed in the Green Paper when the options are adopted, in the next five years, we could be embarrassed by the number of people on this side of the House. I am not an economist. I should love to see it happen, but I have reservations about full employment. The Green Paper is a courageous document on which there can be various arguments.

One of the most important points was made yesterday by the Taoiseach concerning agriculture. It was the most important statement made for a long time to my mind, because a number of us have been talking about it for a long time, about the importance of agriculture and how vital it is to the economy. There are a number of opinions in the Green Paper in relation to agriculture. I claim that if sufficient money were put into agriculture it would be the saving of the economy. Many jobs would be created. Many people want jobs but the first thing we must do—and I emphasise this—is change the attitude of Europe towards our small and medium farmers. The farmers' dole is discussed in the Green Paper. I intend to go into that and spend some of my time on agriculture.

Under the present system there is no incentive, apart from the across-the-board grants for everybody or 30 per cent if you are under 55 years of age. I am talking of transitional farmers because there are only a few others. In my part of the country only 4 per cent or 5 per cent are development farmers under the present definition. I speak of the ordinary farmer who is classified as a transitional farmer. He gets a 30 per cent grant for reclamation work or putting up sheds if he is under 55 years of age. There is not much point in putting in a manager on a 30-acre farm. The EEC directive must be changed. If a farmer of 25 or 30 acres could get the maximum grants for increasing his stock and machinery, in addition to certain bonuses for his achievements, this would be of considerable help. In an area like Connemara there is no hope of developing the land and small farmers there must get unemployment assistance. If a farmer of 30 acres got help to drain his land, with the additional incentive of a bonus if he achieved certain targets, it would be much more preferable to him than the dole. We must change the system of grants now operating.

When the first directive came from the EEC I condemned it. I was told I was throwing cold water on it. Five years ago I suggested that there should be a pre-development scheme for those who would not qualify but nobody gave consideration to it. However, the farming organisations took it up, Fine Gael took it up and now we are talking about it. I brought up this matter at the General Council of County Committees of Agriculture five years ago. If the big people in Europe will not change their attitude towards the ordinary small farmer here we must ensure that we have a national scheme to give the people concerned some incentive. I suggested something on the lines of the incentive scheme for small farmers.

The emphasis in the Taoiseach's speech was on the farmer, and this was pointed out in today's edition of The Irish Times. Some 80 per cent of farmers are in the category I mentioned, but unless something is done by way of incentives to improve their lot there is no use in our talking about them. I welcome the money provided for drainage in the west of Ireland although I have reservations because I think some of this work cannot be done. That is a parochial matter and I will not discuss it here, although I noticed that every speaker in the debate referred to his own constituency. It seems everyone plugs his own area, but I prefer to stay on the national issue in this debate on the economy. I wish my contribution to be positive but I am sorry to say that the approach of the Opposition in this debate has been negative. If a person criticises something he should put forward an alternative.

The Green Paper is a revolutionary document. Although I do not agree with everything in it, nevertheless it is a document that is worth discussing. However, I should hate to accept the assumption in the paper that 4,000 jobs will be lost each year in the agricultural sector. If proper assistance were given to farmers that would not happen. A figure of 5.7 per cent has been mentioned in respect of growth rate and I accept that. The farm modernisation scheme has been mentioned. I agree that portion of the money involved should be given by way of grant, but some of it should also be given by way of bonus if a person reaches a target. Great work was done under the incentive scheme for small farmers. I know many farmers who worked hard to achieve the targets and many of them increased their incomes substantially. If people presently drawing unemployment assistance knew that they could get a bonus in addition to a grant they would be very happy to avail of the scheme. I want to differentiate between the very small farmer who may have only four or five acres and the farmer with a reasonable holding. The former must be given social welfare. The man with a reasonable holding has no incentive to develop his land.

The question of land structure was not mentioned to any extent in the debate. Something must be done about this matter. I would ask the Minister for Agriculture to issue an order to the Land Commission immediately that until he brings in legislation an order under section 40 of the 1956 Act be put on all sales of land from now on. I know it will hold up the sale for only three months. I hope legislation will be brought in before the end of this year to curtail the buying of land by speculators and by people who have too much land already. The Minister concerned has promised to do this. Every person who has land for sale will try to sell now. The Land Commission are not active in the matter and I would ask the Minister to take action. If farmers with reasonably sized holdings could get some help to purchase land when it comes on the market in their locality they could make a reasonable living on the land. Action must be taken to stop speculators in this area.

Many people criticise the Land Commission, and I accept that they have major faults. However, if we replace them and ask local bodies to decide who will get land that may not be satisfactory. Blood was spilt over land and it is still a sore topic in many parts of the country. At least the Land Commission are not parochial in their attitude as might be the case if farming organisations or advisers had to decide who would get land.

In the Green Paper the Taoiseach put enormous stress on agriculture. We must try to achieve the full potential of the industry and to keep as many people as possible on the land because there are no jobs for them elsewhere. We must try to help the people who can pull the country out of the mess it is in. The people in agriculture must be given a chance. If the small farmer goes he cannot be replaced. He stood for everything that was good in the country and he should be helped. More money should have been given for land settlement. We are getting more for drainage works and I am very grateful for this. We hope to get very good results.

There is the whole question of land and what can be got out of agriculture. It is annoying to hear about our factories not being able to compete wth those abroad. For instance a farmer here sells cattle on the hoof and they are taken to Britain and processed there. The British factories can pay a better price than ours can and yet we have the raw materials here at our door. I cannot understand it. I would not agree that there should be any attempt to stop the free sale, but if our factories were efficient we would be able to compete here and to employ people at home. We should be able to meet any competition from abroad.

I may have spent a little too long talking about agriculture and the clock is moving on.

I want to pay a special tribute to the Minister for Health and Social Welfare. He is doing a very good job. I would like to see a few changes in regard to health and social welfare. There is a medical card system. It is terrible that the small farmer has to give up his blue cards in order to get a medical card. This is discrimination against a man who is in cattle alone. A sheep man is not asked for the card for his sheep and a tillage man is not asked for it. If a man is in cattle the home assistance officer goes and asks him how many blue cards he has. There is an estimated value on each of them which is fairly high now because of the price of livestock. There should be discussions between the Minister for Agriculture and the Minister for Health and Social Welfare. There is a danger that if a man has a health card he will not produce all his cattle; some of them would be hidden away. When the question of testing arises, if the calves are produced the vet is asked to give an account of the number of cattle he has tested. This is something that I would like to see changed very quickly because it is detrimental to the question of disease eradication.

I come back to the question of employment. In agriculture there could be a lot of employment. I have talked about giving the full grants to the small farmer providing that he works to a plan. I do not know how few commercial farmers we have but I think the figure is about 1 per cent. The farmers have to be planned and the plan has to be serviced. If we are to change the system so that the smaller farmer can be planned and get the full grant there must be an increase in the number of agricultural advisers in every county. There must also be a substantial increase in the staffs of the farm development offices, and here there is plenty of scope for employing people. My county is not the smallest in the country. If in the morning it came about that the system was changed there and every farmer was prepared to go to an instructor and work to a plan, who would plan him? There are not sufficient instructors. Who is going to do the development for him in the development office? There is a great need for clerical assistants there. It annoys me to see somebody with a degree in agricultural science sitting in an office when he should be out talking to the farmers and telling them what to do. He has a pile of paperwork in front of him which should be done by short-hand-typists and young boys and girls who need jobs.

I congratulate the Minister for the Environment. He has been referred to as a national disaster or a complete failure. I do not see how it can be said that he was a complete failure. We got substantial grants from his Department, and I hope we continue to get them. I do not know how many extra people the local authorities could employ. In my county there are roads to be widened and a lot of other work to be done to provide amenities. All these things will improve the countryside and plenty of people would take this employment in preference to the dole. There are old people who might prefer to remain as they are with the few bob they get.

No young person wants to draw unemployment benefit or unemployment assistance. I am glad that someone on the Labour benches said there should be a difference between talking about unemployment benefit and unemployment assistance. Unemployment benefit is the unemployed person's own money; he has paid for it. Unemployment assistance means the dole. I have never met anybody who would not prefer work to the dole.

This is going to be one hell of a discussion document, because some of us will be talking very much against some of the options. We agree with a lot of them and I am glad that Deputy Kelly said that there were a good many things in the Green Paper that he agreed with. I have spoken to a few people since the document was issued. There were quite a number of shocks at some things that appeared in it, but people said that at least here is a document, here is a suggestion, here is a target that nobody could imagine we would be talking about in five years. We must have a serious look at this document and see if its objectives can be achieved. I have reservations about it but I believe we can go a long way.

I am terribly impressed in this year of 1978 that the Taoiseach came out strongly yesterday on the importance of agriculture to our economy. When we were talking about this 20 years ago I was very much associated with agricultural organisations. I have been a member of a political party all my life but not a very prominent politician. We got very little heed from politicians then about the importance of agriculture to the country. They have seen the light since. I do not say that industries are not important. They are. In my constituency one of the towns has become a ghost town because of the closing down of the Tynagh mines. If we do not get an industry there in a short time we will be in a very bad way. Industry is important, but it has been said here that the few inches of soil and the minerals which we have are the wealth of the country.

Somebody said here recently that you can get carried away. I got carried away when talking about agriculture. I have spent all my life working on a 50-acre farm, and that was not so easy a few years ago. I worked hard on it. I like to listen to a person expressing theories, but if he has not some practical experience I would not listen to him for very long. It is the man with practical experience who has a theory and he is the man to talk to. The man who reads everything from books and has no experience of putting his theory into practice will get little heed from me. I know all the things that can happen in trying to put theory into practice.

I would like speakers on the other side of the House to come out and impress me with their alternatives to the options put up in the Green Paper. I do not agree with all of these options and I would be arguing against some of them. But they are options. This is a discussion document, and I would like to hear what the people on the other side of the House have to say about it. I am talking to the empty benches of the Labour Party. I mix with all sections of the community and a lot of people in my constituency are labourers. They want forward, positive thinking. They want people to put up the best suggestions they can find for full employment, or suggestions for bringing unemployment down to an acceptable level of, say, 30,000 or 40,000. I do not want to see unemployment solved through emigration. Someone referred to the public sector. It should be tapped. Deputy Desmond had certain suggestions on socialist lines. I am a socialist and what Deputy Desmond suggested would, according to the Minister for Economic Planning and Development, cost a great deal of money. Now Deputy Desmond gave no indication of where the money would come from. Whether we like it or not, the Green Paper spells out all the options. It says where the money is to come from.

I trust what I have said will be useful. I am not a professional politician but I would like to hear a full discussion and concrete suggestions made by both the Labour Party and the Fine Gael Party and I would like to know their alternative to the Green Paper.

: I listened with great interest to Deputy Callanan. Without starting on an apologia pro vita I have probably had similar experiences, because for the best part of my life I was more involved in farming organisations and running a family farm than I was in politics. We got a very clear picture from Deputy Callanan, and it is a great pity he was not allowed to take some part in writing the Green Paper, especially the chapter on agriculture. I think he would have written a much better one. It was a pleasure to listen to him and I agree with everything he said about agriculture.

The farm modernisation scheme has to be reviewed at EEC level. The people in most need of aid actually get least. The whole format of Directive 159 seems to be geared towards capital investment. The emphasis is on investment rather than output. Of course, when that directive was conceived Europe had full employment and the emphasis was on cheap food. Now both here and in Europe the emphasis is on jobs. Far from getting farmers off the land, as was the original intention, the thinking now is that people must be kept on the land. State aid can be justified and the economic cost would be far less that it is in creating jobs in industry. I think the figure in industry would be something like £12,000 as against £4,000 in agriculture.

We have the highest rate of unemployment of any EEC country. We have more scope than any EEC country to expand our agriculture. The average sized farm here is 31 per cent greater than the average sized farm in Holland and we are not producing at the rate we should be producing and we are not, therefore, employing as many people as we should. Like Deputy Callanan, I believe we could increase the numbers employed in agriculture. Forget about those employed in the service industries and the processing industries. I am talking of people on the land.

I attended rural schools and my children are now attending a rural school, and I am most disappointed to find that there is no effort of any kind to give these children what I would call an agricultural bias. They have all sorts of subjects and sometimes parents have to ask their children what the subjects are all about. There is no effort towards agricultural education, an industry in which 60 per cent of our people are employed. We apparently do not think it worth while to educate our young people in that important industry. We do not teach them to respect it.

At the moment it is practically impossible, even at double the going rate, to get people to work on the land. The idea has grown up that the farm worker is unskilled. People go into other industries and end up very sadly disappointed. The agricultural worker is highly skilled. He handles very expensive equipment. He has to be educated and, of course, he has to be paid. The money to pay him is there but the facilities to train him are not. A start should be made now in the schools and there should be training courses for the agricultural industry as there are for other industries.

With regard to Directive 159, we should abandon completely the concept of a comparable income or we should modify the comparable income calculators. I believe we could obtain an extension of the time from six to ten years. Pre-development schemes are essential. Bonuses on targets are essential. Low interest loans are essential. All these are essential for people who, in the opinion of the EEC are not capable of making a go of it. I believe they can and will make a go of it even with the limited resources at their disposal at the moment. Because of the increase in farm prices farms which were not viable a few years ago are now very viable indeed because of farmyard enterprises, horticultural production and intensive dairying.

I do not agree with the Green Paper where it says that farmers should pay for the advisory services they are getting. I do not think that is on, because only 11 or 12 per cent of the farmers avail of those services while the people who need them most do not avail of them.

It is not fair to ask us to come up with solutions to these problems, because we did not create them. The Government will have to accept some responsibility for these problems. Their manifesto created this wonderful euphoria, in other words, eat, drink and be merry, elect us and all will be well. This is the doctrine that was preached 12 months ago.

When canvassing people told me that the Fianna Fáil canvassers had been there before me and had promised that if Fianna Fáil were returned to power all would be well. I told those people what I had said in this House. My idea was that the farmers, like everybody else, should contribute their fair share, and not more than their fair share, of the tax burden. It was not right that Fianna Fáil should give the impression that they would give many benefits without any sting. The sting did not come until after the election. That was a sneaky thing to do and I criticise them for that.

At the moment farmers have the option of the multiplier or keeping accounts. The multiplier has been raised so much that it is no longer a practical proposition for most farmers, especially when one remembers that if one opts for the multiplier one must stay with it for three years. A man would be very foolish to opt for that system when he does not know what the multiplier will be in the coming year.

There is a danger in not giving an option on keeping accounts. Farmers may opt for easier systems of farming. They might end up with a lower gross income but with the same net income because of the tax situation. This could reflect very seriously in a cutback in dairying, especially in areas with fertile lands. That is not desirable. When we were in Government I did not agree with the notional system. Instead of working on valuation I was in favour of a system where the farmer would be asked to pay a few pounds per acre on adjusted acres. That would be much simpler and much easier to calculate. A fair amount of money would be collected from him and he would be free to opt for any system of farming he liked.

The Government have taken note of this and are now referring to a resource tax, which is similar. I believe that as envisaged in the Green Paper a resource tax is unconstitutional. You cannot legally tax somebody on his land any more than you can tax a doctor or a veterinary surgeon on his skills. The only way the Minister could lawfully use a resource tax would be as an alternative to farm accounts, in other words, a land tax as an alternative to income tax, but not both.

At the moment the farmer is badly caught with a very heavy tax bill, whatever way he works. The loss of the primary grants in some areas, especially my own area, is a very substantial additional burden. The average 100 acre farmer is caught for an additional £1,000 regardless of his income or of his ability to earn. In a bad year he might not make any profit but he still has to pay an additional £1,000 as a result of Fianna Fáil's policy since the general election. This is very serious because it has put that farmer in a non-competitive position vis-à-vis his United Kingdom or European counterpart. I hope that situation will be rectified soon.

To remove rates from private dwellings is good but we should not expect another section of the community to make up that loss of revenue. That is wrong but that is what is happening in my area. Last year the local rate collector collected £370,000 and this year he will collect £390,000. This means that the farmers are not only making up the revenue lost by the abolition of rates on private houses but they are paying an additional £20,000. Is that just? There are many wealthy people living in urban areas who have two or three homes and they are not paying rates while the man who goes out at 6 a.m. to milk the cows is paying for the lot. If that is a just society go bhfóire Dia orainn.

We are told that full employment would be created by collecting an additional £240 million next year and £280 million the following year, and we are depending on a 7 per cent growth rate to accomplish this—the OECD say our growth rate is more in the region of 4.5 per cent—and the shortfall will be made up by additional taxation. Where will they get money? I do not know.

I see no solid evidence of any job creation effort by the Government in my area. I have nothing but bad news to report. There have been many serious lay-offs in Youghal. Verolme Dockyard were told by the management as recently as last week—lay off for the autumn unless you get the B & I vessel immediately. I asked the Minister today what about the B & I vessel. They are still shilly-shallying in the Department of Transport and Power, talking back and forth while men are going to be laid off. The Minister could not give me a straight answer. If he was serious about job creation he would go in there, tell them to get on with that job, arrange the details of this deal and get that ship in before men are laid off. But he could not even give me that assurance. That is why I am very sceptical about the Green Paper and about the seriousness of the problem.

When we approached the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy about our problems in Youghal, when I suggested to him that Youghal should be included in the disadvantaged areas scheme he said: we have worse areas than Youghal, meaning, of course, Limerick. Limerick was included in the disadvantaged areas. I would appeal to him even at this late stage to have Youghal included before it becomes a disaster area.

With regard to roads in our area every year we put down notices of motions to have bends removed, to have certain essential road-widening works carried out, to facilitate the free movement of agricultural produce, notably bulk milk carriers, loads of sugar beet and so on. We were told by the county manager the other day that there is no money available at all for the improvement of the ordinary county roads in the current year; the only funds available are for filling potholes. That is a most serious situation. With the modernisation of milk haulage and the movement of large bulk carriers there is continuous additional need for road widening and so on. But these must now be postponed. We were told also that there was no point in submitting any further local improvement schemes because they would not be undertaken. The group water schemes have become a sick joke. We have umpteen group water schemes on hand at present awaiting ratification and sanction. We are told that, because of lack of funds, because of this, that and the other, there is no way they can be dealt with. If the Government were serious about job creation they should be dealt with forthwith.

With regard to housing the £4,500 loan was laughed at; it was £2,500 short of the price of a house; the loan applicant paid back £48.90 a month. What have we now? A £7,000 loan, £7,000 short and an applicant pays £69.50 a month. A Fianna Fáil councillor at a recent council meeting said that unless something was done very shortly to aid people building their own houses most young people so doing would end up in lunatic asylums. I did not say it, and he was right, because the massive repayments are frightening when one considers that they are dependent on the ability of a man and perhaps his wife, to earn sufficient, on their health and everything else. If they get sick everything goes wrong. The thought of getting sick is enough to drive them insane when burdened with these higher payments. If the Government are serious about job creation, house-building and so on, let them get on with providing free sites for those people. We hear about serviced sites but their cost is equivalent to that of a house at present. If the Government would provide free serviced sites for people they would be seriously tackling the housing problem.

Emigration is rearing its ugly head again; we are now talking about a figure of 13,000. Even if we assumed that half of them were on the live register that would mean that the downturn in unemployment is only approximately 5,000. That is a far cry from the 20,000 jobs promised by Fianna Fáil.

It is a pity that Deputy Callanan did not write the agricultural chapter of the Green Paper. He has some good ideas but the Government will not listen to him. At Cork show this year a survey was undertaken of the ordinary small farm machinery on display which showed that over 80 per cent was imported. Again, if the Government were serious about creating jobs they do not have to dig up the roads and fill them up again. All they have to do is inject some money into the Sugar Company who are building machines under difficult conditions. It would pay some Ministers to go and see what they have been and are doing in Carlow. If we are serious about job creation and keeping people at home money should be poured in there, have the Sugar Company build machines for our farmers, of which they are very capable, but there is no way they can do so if they do not get the necessary finance.

I have confined my remarks almost entirely to agriculture because that is the area with which I am most familiar. I have pointed out that agriculture has, can and will save our economy in spite of the reckless spending of the Government over the last 12 months. I warn the Government that if agriculture is to prosper they must change their tactics. They must cease to think of agriculture as a source of revenue to pay for their follies.

The only way in which revenue can be generated through agriculture is by making it buoyant and, to achieve that end it must be contained within the proper set of circumstances. The chief requisite in agriculture today is confidence, which has been well and truly shattered in the last couple of months. I hope there will be a rethink on the whole approach of the Government to this very important industry.

One Deputy here last evening said it was we who created the crisis of 1974-75. Were it not so grim it would be amusing. There was no panic on the part of the Coalition Government during that crisis, when agricultural produce could not be given away, when shiploads of meat were held in Bantry Bay, when horticultural produce was practically on the roads in all our food factories, having been processed and paid for. We did not close down any plant. We held on until market outlets improved. Nobody's confidence was shattered during that period. We continued to grow the peas, beans and potatoes; we continued to produce the beef knowing that with people like the ex-Minister for Agriculture around solutions and markets would be found. For God's sake do not blame us for 1974-75. But Fianna Fáil will be taking the blame for 1978-79 and 1980. They should make sure that their record is right. The Government can get a certain amount from tourism and from the public sector, but the real way to employ people is to develop the processing industry in the way outlined by Deputy Callanan. The Government cannot compel people to have their cattle slaughtered here——

: Deputy Hegarty has three minutes to conclude.

: ——but they can encourage them to do so, by putting money into the processing side, by developing marketing. The Government should encourage the people involved in selling our agricultural produce to sell our entire agricultural produce under one brand name as do the Jews. If we can market all our produce under one brand name a lot of our marketing problems will be resolved.

Like Deputy Kelly, I have not completely knocked the Green Paper. I will support anything worth while in the Green Paper. Most of us wish to see friends and members of our families employed and I would support any worth-while measure to that end. Sharing resources to meet whatever is deemed to be the priority of the day shows the sort of spirit that moved even our urban dwellers to confidently vote their way into Europe. They knew it would mean higher prices, but the national interests obliged us to become members of the EEC. They knew that this would ultimately benefit them. This spirit can be shattered by the sneaky approach of the Government to certain sections of the community. They say one thing to the town dwellers, another to the farmers and another to social welfare recipients. They tell everybody what they want to hear.

Acting Chairman

: The Deputy will have to conclude now.

: The Government will have to have a rethink if they wish to retain the confidence of the people.

: I welcome this Adjournment Debate to have a look at achievements in education during the last 12 months. Fortuitously, it is just over 12 months since the change of Government, when the country heaved a sigh of relief, particularly those involved or interested in education. When introducing the various Estimates for the Department of Education, I pointed out that the Government now, as formerly, showed its commitment to education by increasing the Education vote by over 20 per cent. The amount of money provided, as well as the initiatives taken in education prove the point that a characteristic of Fianna Fáil has been their real commitment to advance education. I can justly claim on the historical evidence that education has been a priority with us. When I took office about 12 months ago education was gradually being allowed to die but now it is living again. How has this kiss of life been administered to education? It was moribund for four-and-a-half years but it has now been revived by the Government's commitment to spend money and by the initiatives taken since we came to office.

: That is quite a fairy story.

: Over-large classes were pinpointed by us as being our prime target. Since we took office we decided to take positive and unprecedented action to try to remedy the situation.

: Fianna Fáil invented large classes.

: There will be substantial improvements in the pupil/teacher ratio in the school year beginning 1 July, at a cost of £4 million in a full year. I would be grateful if Deputy Collins would not interrupt me. I did not interrupt the Deputy, who spent five minutes of his half hour talking about education. The Deputy will not take up my half hour talking about it now.

: I do not like fairy stories.

: The second phase of the pupil/teacher improvement comes into effect on 1 January 1979. The Government which Deputy Collins supported reluctantly, in fact the Deputy hardly spoke on education at all, had suspended the training and appointment of remedial teachers. One of my first jobs in the past 12 months was to remove the previous Government's suspension on the appointment of remedial teachers. The original suspension, to keep the books right, was heartless and cruel and was particularly hard on people from what are called educationally disadvantaged areas. I can claim some credit for removing that suspension. The result of the initiative of the Government in regard to the pupil/teacher ratio is that there are 900 extra teachers available for the academic year, 1978-1979— 600 teachers in addition to the 300 being provided to cope with the increase in the primary school population, plus teachers to replace those who retire or who are lost to the teaching force through ordinary wastage. In all, 1,450 new teachers will enter the service during the academic year 1978-1979. Of these, 900 will take up entirely new posts, which have been created for additional teachers in large schools and for remedial teachers and to cater for the overall increase in primary school enrolments. The remainder will go to succession appointments arising from retirements and the normal wastage in any profession.

Our policy in coming years will be directed towards maintaining such excess in output of teachers over normal retirements and wastage, as will allow a progressive improvement in the pupil/teacher ratio. During the year also the maintenance grant for the first time for national schools was being paid at an increase of 33 per cent in 1978 over 1977, the amount being £4.4 million instead of £3.32 million.

Is mian liom a rá, freisin, gur shocraíomar níos mó a chur ar fáil dos na bun-scoileanna lán-Ghaelacha agus go mbeidh siad ábalta suíomh do na scoileanna a cheannach. Tá áthas orm go bhfuil sé sin déanta again agus tá súil agam go mbeidh forbairt sna scoileanna lán-Ghaelacha de bharr an tsocraithe sin.

I am also glad to let the House know that the transfer committee, the committee which will be dealing with the problems of transfer from primary to post primary schools, have been established and will be meeting this week to solve some educational problems with regard to the transfer from the primary to the post primary schools. This has been exercising educationalists to a great extent. I had occasion to refer to it in the House comparatively recently when there was talk of a curriculum development unit. The research they have done and the tests they have made in the field will be very useful to the pupil transfer committee when they come to conclusions which they will put before me with regard to the transfers.

In regard to post primary schools, in July 1977, the month in which the new Government took office, I announced the improvement of the pupil/teacher ratio in secondary schools from 20 : 1 down to 19 : 1 and in vocational schools from 17½ : 1 to 16½ : 1. This resulted in the creation of 600 extra posts in post primary schools in addition, of course, to the normal increases necessary to cater for growing numbers of pupils. These are 600 people who, if the previous Government had been maintained in office, would not have found posts because they had given no indication whatsoever that they were going to improve the pupil/teacher ratio so there was either the dole queue for those 600 or the emigrant ship.

When giving effect to this improved pupil/teacher ratio for post primary schools I caused it to be conveyed to the authorities of the schools that in the deployment of the increased total staff of teachers, to which the new ratios would give rise, they should particularly bear in mind making the most appropriate arrangements feasible for remedial teaching related to the circumstances of the individual school.

Another point, which was neglected badly by the Coalition Government, was career guidance. I am again hearing holy cries of horror about remedial teaching. The fact of the matter is that by a regulation enforced by the Minister in the previous Government it was impossible for young people anxious to make careers in remedial teaching to get training. I took action in the matter which was as follows. The adjustment in the ratios, which I announced soon after the Government took office, should remove for a number of smaller schools the difficulty which they might otherwise have in providing for a guidance teacher within the quota.

A deterrent to existing teachers to undertake guidance courses, which came to my notice after I was appointed Minister, was that such teachers were required to bear the cost of their substitutes while they were attending the courses. This was a particularly severe strain on teachers, particularly those teachers who had already given hostages to fortune, like getting married, having mortgages and so on, so by a decision which I have made I have arranged that this requirement of the teacher paying the substitute will cease to this extent. In the case of a school of 250 or more pupils the school authorities may be authorised by my Department to appoint a teacher outside the normal quota of the school so that the teachers may follow a guidance training course without being penalised unduly for it.

We have, as the House knows, committed ourselves to job creation. In the education sector we have created jobs to sustain the educational efforts in the various sectors. A total of 404 additional non-teaching posts have been provided to date in the vocational sector. This is to help administration and to help the servicing of the vocational schemes and regional technical colleges. The total is made up of 311 clerical posts, 42 technician and craft assistant posts and 51 posts in the maintenance area. This is a substantial buttress to the efforts being made in the vocational sector. These additional clerical posts sanctioned for vocational committees will enable the committees to service management and provide clerical assistance also for the principal teachers of larger schools.

The principal teachers of larger schools have been agitating for some time for that help. It was my privilege, on behalf of the Government, to sanction those posts.

I would like to refer to the secretarial assistance for primary and secondary schools because I have an appeal to make. I sent out a circular to the management boards and their response has been sluggish. So far, not many of those posts have been sanctioned. I am of the opinion that more applications will come in in the next few weeks when the schools have a look at the situation. There are 600 new posts sanctioned for this area. I hope the management authorities will not fall down on the job but that they will apply for the posts. Those of us who do constituency work, attend clinics and so forth, know of the great number of young people with very good Leaving Certificates plus a year's commercial training who are looking for positions. Here are positions which are available to them. One of the complaints that businesses make is that most of the people coming to them have no experience. Here is an area, without suffering undue pressure, where they could get very useful experience if they want to make their way in commercial life afterwards.

With regard to the grants for secondary schools this year the day pupils got an increase from £50 to £66.50, an increase of 33 per cent, which took effect from 1 January, 1978. In boarding schools an increase was sanctioned from £50 to £66.50 towards the tuition element of the boarding school fee, with a boarding school fee limit. There is a limit on the fee that can be charged, if the school are to avail of this grant, of £385, which was raised from £368, also taking effect from 1 January 1978.

Special assistance in addition to the grants mentioned by me already are payable in respect of pupils from islands and remote areas. Again, there are regulations which have to be adhered to. These increases, as well as increases in pupil numbers, will cost approximately £3.1 million. I am in a position to say here today that I will shortly be announcing substantial improvements in the aid to schools teaching other subjects than Irish through the medium of Irish. It will take the form of an increase, in respect of the school year, 1978-79, in the grants payable as well as an improvement in the staffing arrangements in these schools. Our basic philosophy sees the worth of these schools and will want to sustain them in so far as they can be sustained by finance. We want to sustain them otherwise by giving them a proper and prestigious place in our educational system.

In regard to comprehensive and community schools, for 1978 the estimated State expenditure is £9,330,000. This is an increase of £2,146,000 over the 1977 figure.

: What about the deeds of trust?

: The House knows full well that Deputy Collins' two colleagues, Deputy Barry and Commissioner Burke, sat and hatched the deeds of trust right through——

: Deputy Faulkner sat on the deeds of trust.

: ——their period of office. They were allowed to grow mouldy, the dust to gather on them for a number of years. Obviously courage was lacking. Not one single initiative was taken as I have taken an initiative. I am in consultation with the various people and when the time comes I hope to have a draft deed of trust with everybody having been consulted and with a general consensus as a buttress to the very good work that is going on——

: The Minister ran for cover.

: ——in these schools at the moment. The schools are in operation, they are providing a very good educational service without any deed of trust. We hope to have a consensus on a deed of trust. That is my intention. I do not intend to put them in a drawer, lock them up and leave office without having made any move on them whatever. I submit, through the Chair, that that was the most abject moral cowardice.

: Ask Deputy Pádraig Faulkner then.

: I tried to get them going on the deeds of trust some time ago. Wake Minister with my knocking. I would thou couldst.

With regard to secondary schools the provision of £4 million—this is in capital grants—is for the payment of building grants in respect of 30 secondary schools where building projects have commenced or are expected to commence during 1978.

With regard to comprehensive and community schools—and I would ask Deputy Collins, if the good news from this side of the House does not please him, to close his ears at this the 1978 provision for capital grants for secondary, comprehensive and community schools is £3 million, £295,000 more than 1977.

: Hear, hear.

: This is an increase of 36 per cent and he can fiddle around with percentages as much as he likes and he will not be able to diminish that figure. The provision of £2,080,000 includes provision for the commencement of building of extensions to Athlone Regional Technical College, to Carlow Regional Technical College and to Letterkenny Regional Technical College respectively.

With regard to the specialist teacher training colleges I have also made a capital grant available to Saint Catherine's College of Home Economics, Sion Hill, of £20,000 to enable it to meet its commitments in its new situation.

With regard to non-voted capital, in which vocational schools are mainly involved, as well as covering final account payments for completed building projects, site purchase, costs and fees, the provision of £3,900,000 covers building payments in respect of 30 schools where building projects have commenced or are expected to commence during 1978.

I have so many goodies here that I have to rush in order to get through them despite the barracking of Deputy Collins.

: Tell us about the yellow buses.

: In relation to higher education I would like to refer in particular to our achievements in the area of non-university education. The National Council for Educational Awards which was established by a previous Fianna Fáil administration suffered the loss of its degree awarding powers in 1974, and not since the Children of Lir changed into swans was there a bigger change in educational policy than took place in December 1974 under the previous Government and over the head of the then Minister for Education. I think, indeed, poor Commissioner Burke was supported in his stand at that time by Deputy Collins but he kept very quiet about it.

On 29 July 1977 the present Government decided to restore the degree awarding function. Subsequently after discussions with the various interests involved I announced on 18 September that the NCEA would for the future be the degree awarding authority in the case of the NIHE Limerick and the NIHE Dublin, Thomond College of Education and the regional technical colleges. This was a decision which was welcomed by students, staff and authorities of the institutions concerned. Apart from the wisdom of the decision from an educational point of view it put an end to uncertainty, and uncertainty was playing havoc with education in those institutions. I would like to thank University College, Cork and University College, Galway who had tasks trust upon them by decisions of the previous Government for the work they did in the interregnum. In our manifesto we undertook to establish the NCEA on a statutory basis. Having accomplished what I have just outlined I am happy to say that I will be fulfilling this undertaking at the begining of the next Dáil session.

: Good man.

: In reference to the restoration of the NCEA's degree awarding power I would like to mention the NCAD. I had a very thorough meeting with the board of the college in April. We discussed inter alia the question of the source of degrees for students pursuing appropriate courses in the college. I made it quite clear that I thought the National Council for Education Awards was the appropriate degree awarding body in that instance. I would like to thank again the people who were working on an alternative scheme, a scheme that was again thrust upon them by the notorious decisions of December 1974, for what they did. They had considerable expertise before they set out, they had additional expertise when they finished, and I hope this will be available to the new NCEA when they are structuring the degrees and diplomas for the National College of Art and Design.

A sum of £5 million has been provided in 1978 for building grants and capital costs for the universities and other higher education authority institutions. This represents an increase of £901,600 or 22 per cent on the amount provided in 1977.

I would like to mention that the Union of Students in Ireland can be assured when they are looking for a party that will give priority to education that they have not any further to go than the Fianna Fáil party.

: What about student loans?

: The provisions in 1978 for a grant-in-aid fund for building costs and other capital costs for third level institutions not funded by An tÚdarás um Ard Oideachais is £2,300,000 which is £1,760,000 more than in 1977. This will enable £850,000 to be allocated to building work for the Cork Dental Hospital School and £1,450,000 for Thomond College of Education which will be a national centre for the training of teachers of such subjects as woodwork, metalwork, building construction and rural and general science.

The purchase of the Ballymun site for NIHE Dublin is being negotiated with Dublin Corporation, and Deputies can read all about that in today's papers if they do not want to listen to me.

: I hope their plans will be included.

: I would like to have a palaver with Deputy Collins, but I must get on to the serious business of bringing this good news to the House.

: What about the Green Paper?

: In the Budget Statement in January 1977 the former administration announced that the maximum of the maintenance element of higher education grants was being increased from £300 to £350. I would not beat a drum about my commitment to higher education if I had only that to offer to the students of our third level institutions, but that is the drum that is now being beaten. This was to take effect from the beginning of the academic year 1977-78. However, in December 1977 there was a change of Government and you might expect an improvement. The present Government decided that, in substitution for that increase the maximum of the maintenance element would be raised to £500, an increase of 66? per cent on the former figure of £300 with pro rata increases at the lower levels and that that improvement would be made operative from the beginning of the academic year 1977-78. All during the four-and-a-quarter years when the National Coalition held office, not a chirp out of Deputy Collins about increasing the grants, not a chirp out of Senator Horgan, who was free of Whip in the Seanad. I looked up his record. He had motions on adult education, leaving certificate music, reformatories and so on, but not a damn word about the students or how they were falling behind in an inflation situation which was often as high as 24 per cent. Enough said. Verb. sap., as they say.

The incomes table for the purposes of the means test under the higher education grants scheme has been increased for 1978 from £4,200 to £5,100 at the maximum. That is an increase of 21.4 per cent, and from £2,625 to £3,400 at the bottom of the table, an increase of 29.5 per cent. The increase announced in May 1977 was paid by this Government. This is another example of the person calling the tune but the Fianna Fáil Government paying the piper, contrary to the tradition that he who pays the piper calls the tune. All those improvements, both in eligibility limits and in the amount of the grant, apply also to scholarships given by the vocational education committees to various third level colleges.

With regard to scholarships awarded direct by my Department to students from the Gaeltacht and also to students who wished to pursue their studies in Irish, I have great pleasure in announcing in the case of scholarships, which were going to be phased out altogether by the previous administration, an increase from £470 per annum to £780 for those who stay in lodgings, and from £290 per annum to £480 per annum for those who can live at home while attending university.

With regard to the Easter week commemoration scholarships, the increase is from £520 to £830, and from £340 to £530 for those who live at home. I am glad to be able to announce that increase when we are on the eve of celebrating the birth of Padraig Pearse.

I am fed up with pessimism; I am fed up with melancholy. I want to banish melancholy from the education scene because we are not running to a recession for excuses with regard to developments in education. When Tussing is read, "Ochón, ochón agus foraoir géar", is all we hear from the far side of the House instead of saying, "We have a serious problem. We will have to face it and try to solve it". That is the determination of this side of the House. A Green Paper appears, "Ochón, ochón, mo léan, foraoir gear". We refuse to adopt that attitude on this side of the House. We intend to face the problems and to solve them.

I have more goodies that I could read about if time allowed but I have proved my case. So I will say to people who were not so active on the educational scene when they could influence the Government of the time and who are now front runners in the plea for more money for education: drive out melancholy. A sound Government with a commitment to education is in charge.

Hence loathed melancholy of Cerberus and blackest midnight born. Find some uncouth cell where brooding darkness spreads his jealous wings and the night raven sings.

: I should like to refer briefly to the review of the year. I was interested to hear the Minister for Education read out a list of goodies. While the temptation to read out the goodies is strong in anyone, I am disappointed that he confined his activities to what could have been announced throughout the five months between now and October when he would not have got a slagging from Deputy Collins, when the goodies could be trailed one week after another.

: They are on the record.

: I thought they would be more appropriate on an Estimate speech.

: I have given that.

: The same goodies twice.

: No, extra ones.

: We are at the end of the first year of the returned Fianna Fáil administration. It is only fair to say that this Government have done things that have to be welcomed and I certainly welcome them. What we have lacked and unfortunately still lack is a decent honesty in politics which admits success, compliments those who have achieved it and focuses on problems which have yet to be solved. In so far as this Government have done positive things, are responsible for general improvements, I want to go on record as welcoming their efforts. The public will benefit from such positive gains. It is only human and natural for a Government to claim success for everything that occurs during their period in office. It is only human that Fianna Fáil should claim success for the reduction in the inflation rate and for lowering the level of unemployment.

If they are to claim credit for the achievement of the inflation rate, then the Coalition should claim credit retrospectively for the four best summers that we had in a row. Alternatively, Fianna Fáil could be blighted for producing two bad summers, one after the other. With respect, neither Minister Wilson, who is representing the front bench today, nor his colleagues are responsible for the OPEC decision which governs the price of oil. No Fianna Fáil Minister, including the Minister for Agriculture, is responsible for the reduction in the price of tea and coffee.

This is the first year of a returned Government and some achievements have been made. To the extent that they specifically improved the climate in education, I welcome them. The term of office is four years. At the end of the first year, it is rather like watching a mile race in which the runners are coming out of the first lap and there are three laps ahead. Few middle-distance runners win a race by leading from start to finish. The form only breaks out when the bell has gone. Having congratulated the Government on their success and for their vigour and enthusiasm, it is only reasonable at the end of this year to consider their capacity for the remaining three years on the basis of the promises that have been made. While I am not as long in politics as the Minister, he knows as well as I do that eaten bread is very soon forgotten. It certainly was last June. The promise of jam tomorrow, or improved cat and dog food, is what the public respond to more than a sober assessment of what has been done, what must be done and the capacities of the various contending parties to achieve it.

One positive benefit on which I think the Government should be complimented is that by publishing first the White Paper on Economic Development last January and in now publishing this document they are potentially raising the level of political debate in a way not achieved in the past. To that extent I welcome it. My welcome stops at that point, because the contents of both documents indicate that the largest political party in the country have opted collectively and apparently with the wholehearted support of the back benohers and back room boys for a doctrinaire, right wing approach to the solution of our economic problems and consequently to generating the capacity to solve many of our social problems. It is a remarkable ideological shift away from a central position adopted and held by the late Sean Lemass into the most naïve belief that the private sector uniquely has the capacity to create the necessary level of jobs in order to produce full employment and, mark you, in five years. I do not object to Fianna Fáil believing that kind of doctrinaire nonsense—that is their problem—but I object to borrowing substantial sums abroad in order to pay for it and running what I consider to be the risk at the end of the day of the strategy failing and the debts remaining unpaid.

While I welcome the considered contributions of the Minister for Economic Planning and Development and his senior colleague, the Minister for Finance, I am totally unconvinced of the capacity of the private sector to do what those Ministers in particular claim it can do. The economy has obviously performed well this year because it has been pumped with borrowed money. There is nothing wrong with that. But we are not looking at this year but at the capacity of the economy to perform over the next three years at the end of which this administration will be accountable to the public. I do not see in all the publications and pronouncements that have emanated from this administration where they have really got down to a proper analysis of what the country needs. Instead, in my view, they have resorted to a kind of bluff which the Minister for Education with his own personal charm gave a very human praise to in the House today —"Trust us; back Jack; put Fianna Fáil in office and we will solve all the problems—not immediately but eventually. And we are better than the other shower anyway". That kind of bluff-based foundation to the documentation put forward must be challenged. Because Fianna Fáil have responsibility for government now and indeed have had it for an enormous time—far too long—produces a sort of conservative establishment within our own society which says that the people who have been there longest basically know best and we should put them back. There are serious doubts about the capacity of the economic strategy they have proposed to produce what they claim it will produce. They have borrowed to make that strategy work, and if it does not we will have the double problem of people remaining unemployed and overseas debt.

One would think that Fianna Fáil had an exclusive responsibility for the economy and nothing else. Notwithstanding the presence of the Minister for Education and the work he has done in his own area, the extraordinary concentration on the economy by the present Government to the virtual exclusion of a whole range of areas that do not cost money is another indictment. We have on that side of the House 84 Deputies and therefore no problem about getting legislation through the House. In the front bench we have a range of individuals many of whom have had enormous experience of a varied kind in different Departments. Within the entire Fianna Fáil party we have people who are now retired but still available who could provide a pool of collective wisdom in relation to administration. In fact, we have not only 84 seats but, by virtue of their near monopoly of the office since 1932 we have an enormous range of experience also.

It is to the shame of that party that there has been such a miserable advance in the last year in areas that do not call for money. Changing the law on adoption does not depend on the performance of the private sector. Reorganising local government so that it is what it is supposed to be does not rely on the private sector; getting some kind of environmental policy actually published in a year after assuming office does not rely on the private sector's performance. We had a most extraordinary indication of what I must conclude is either stupidity or dishonesty on the part of the Government on the basis of the experience they have had and which hopefully they would have been able to use while they were in Opposition, producing policies whereby they would create jobs in different areas of the public sector, explaining tamely and weakly here and elsewhere that the reason the jobs have not materialised is unforeseen administrative difficulties.

What have they learned in all their years of office if they have not learned how the system works? Is that not the greatest condemnation of the collective experience of the Fianna Fáil Party that after four years in Opposition with the think tanks, the backup services and all the ra-de-da that we heard about, they designed schemes which were put to the country and upon which they got a mandate and which basically did not work because they had not checked out how they would be implemented?

That is only in one area. In the sense of democratic politics it is dishonest to put forward something that you could not deliver when you said you could, and then come in and admit you could not do it—not because you made a mess of it—but because there were unforeseen administrative difficulties.

There are areas of our society that must be changed not because we accept the fashionable trend of change for change sake. Nobody in the Labour Party is interested in legislative change simply for the fun of it. There seems to me to be in the Government's side of the House a conservative comfort that once you can get full employment right by whatever means—and the latest avenue, apparently, is through the Green Paper—everything else in our society is right.

There seems to be a total failure to understand that we are experiencing a shift in our population not only with regard to the age structure but in the movement from rural Ireland to urban and suburban areas. This will affect every aspect of our lives. Whether we like it or not and whether we agree with the change we cannot deny it is happening. It will affect our culture and our attitudes towards all kind of things. Yet there seems to be no recognition from the far side of the House as to the likely impact of that change and, much more importantly, what we can do as a society to counteract the great social problems it will generate.

In case it is thought that this is some kind of academic waffle, let me refer to a point made in the debate today by the Minister for the Environment when he said that one of the barriers to the provision of housing in the Dublin area was the inordinately high cost of land. Then he jumped illogically to saying that the only way to get over that would be for the local authorities to purchase land and to make such sites available as serviced land to small builders. He did not refer to the fact that it is the basic tenure of urban land that is causing it to be exploited in the way it is, and he did not suggest in his speech that the whole question of land ownership in urban areas should be looked at. He did not say we should question a society that allows somebody who, by accident or bequest, owns an acre of land on the edge of an expanding community to benefit to an excessive degree. If it were agricultural land it might be valued at a maximum of £2,000 per acre but because the local authority decide to colour it yellow for residential purposes instead of green for an open space area or for agricultural purposes it jumps to £10,000 or even more. That person is allowed to retain the benefit of that subject to capital gains tax.

The Arabs are not forcing us to keep those laws. The price of coffee is not determining the nature of that ownership system. The EEC have not a directive of land ownership in urban areas. While we have lost a certain amount of sovereignty we have not lost that much. In previous Fianna Fáil administrations where they had a majority of one or two and where some of the members were not exactly smallholders and could have been considered to have some kind of interest there might have been some problems for the party, but in their present situation with 84 seats they could lose ten votes and still get a measure through the House. Yet we have had nothing from the Minister or from the Government.

The rate of social change in the country is too fast for us to rely simply on rolling along as we did in the past. In a society that is changing like that, history shows that it is the weak and the vulnerable who suffer most. Indeed the Green Paper effectively says this. While one welcomes the publication of the document and the range and level of the debate to discuss what are proposed as options, unfortunately running through the document is a lot of illogical nonsense, or so it seems to me. If I am misreading it I shall be happy to be corrected. I will give one example of what I mean. One section deals with options for the development of our infrastructure and there is a specific reference to the Dublin commuter rail service with regard to the request from CIE for the investment of money. Paragraph 5.8 states:

The Dublin commuter rail service is, however, already operating at an annual loss in excess of £3 million (at 1978 prices), and CIE have advised that a heavy additional investment in replacing rollingstock and the signalling system will be required in the next few years.

That is the statement of assessment. Now comes the economic wizard of the Western World who replies as follows to the statement from CIE:

In this situation the options arising are to electrify as recommended by CIE, to maintain the service as it is, or to change standards in various ways.

How can you maintain a service as it is when it is stated that it has to be replaced in a number of years? That is not an option. If CIE are claiming that unless they get money by a certain time the service will not function that is not an option if my understanding of English is adequate. The final option—to change standards in various ways—is an invitation for more options. What kind of gobbleygook is that? The option would appear to be either to electrify as recommended by CIE or to fudge the issue. Unfortunately in far too many areas the Government have fudged the issue.

The Minister for Posts and Telegraphs and Tourism and Transport is a genial man from my mother's county but in a political sense he was quite pathetic at Question Time this afternoon. It was embarrassing to see a political person of his stature give the official replies from his brief but plead total ignorance when asked simple, straightforward supplementary questions. His young support, the Minister of State, was not much better.

The Minister for the Environment has under review virtually everything in his Department that requires a change of legislation. Alternatively, there is a task force considering it or he is looking at the matter. He is such a Speedy Gonzales that on 5 July 1977 a new name was given to the Department of Local Government called the Department of the Environment. In answer to repeated questions as to what that meant exactly in administrative terms, six months later in February he announced that he was setting up an environmental council to advise him more or less on what the Department should be doing, other than administer environmental legislation introduced by his predecessor, Deputy Tully. Having made the announcement in February 1978 about the establishment of the environmental council he attempted to announce this morning in the House, in the manner of his colleague, Deputy Wilson, that the goodies had arrived and that he was going to name the council tomorrow at a Press reception but he did not do it with the same élan and style as his colleague. I should like to know why it took a year to do it.

If this is an indication of the collective experience of Fianna Fáil in an area that does not cost money, is it not reasonable to tell such a party and administration that they are moving far too slowly, that they have no excuse for this and that in theory they have all the experience and expertise behind them to move faster? One can only conclude that on that side of the House are a conservative administration who are simply concerned with running the country but not in any way responding to the extraordinary process of change occurring in our society. They are not attempting to ensure that the social injustices generated by that internal change at least are modified in favour of the weak and the poor and those least capable of looking after themselves. This is the end of the first lap of what is normally a four lap race.

I conclude by repeating that while I welcome the advances that have been made in some areas by this fresh administration there are enough danger signals marked on the wall and displayed in the form of some of the individual Ministers in this Cabinet and in the collective approach of this Government to suggest that somehow between now and three years' time when, hopefully, there will be some reckoning, the capacity to produce endlessly the litany of goodies that the Minister for Education was so eager to produce today is going to dry up. At that time the cost of the drought will not fall on those people most capable of carrying it, but, regrettably, on people who, because of the economic system we have become totally vulnerable in that situation. I do not know where it is written that in times of economic hardship or recession it is first the weak who must bear the brunt of these cutbacks. I do not know what kind of economic law it is that states that it is right and proper for the development of an economy that when things get bad and the storm gets really rough you throw overboard those who cannot swim and keep on board the people, who, in theory, are well able to look after themselves. The whole ideological and philosophical basis of this Government as expressed in the Green Paper appears to be based on that principle. I regret that very much.

: The Deputy has approximately three minutes.

: In the interests of democratic exchange I will donate them to the House.

: At one stage when listening to Deputy Quinn I began to wonder if he was rather sorry for being on that side of the House and if he might be more content over here.

: Never.

: He was prepared to give some welcome to sections of the Green Paper and a fair amount of credit for what we have done in the last 12 months. He said that he welcomed the Green Paper because he felt, rightly, that it would raise the level of debate in this House. I am amazed that he did not have a word in the ear of Deputy Cluskey, the leader of his party, who chose to use the instance of the Adjournment debate not as a debate on the Green Paper, as Deputy Quinn obviously would like him to have done, but as a diversionary tactic. Maybe he has not read and studied it.

It was said in one of yesterday's newspapers that maybe there should be a summer school for politicians where they could study it and have it explained. If they are short of professors over there to explain the Green Paper to them maybe we could send over our doctors from this side of the House to make up for the unfortunate absence of another doctor on that side of the House to explain the significance of the Green Paper.

: They are not doing much on the Deputy's side of the House to effect that.

: I was amazed to hear Deputy Cluskey using a diversionary tatic and trying to say that the Green Paper was a non-starter and it was this and it was that, and talking about the leadership situation in Fianna Fáil. All this was from a man who himself was deadlocked in a leadership race and who obviously is now leading a party that his deputy leader was not too anxious to lead—because it is generally accepted that in the final and second ballot his deputy leader would not even vote for himself. If that is the confidence that the leader and his deputy have in their party, Deputy Quinn should think seriously about coming over here. He comes from the right roots and we would have a certain amount in common. He expounds a different philosophy from that of this side of the House. I am open to be convinced, but I have not seen anywhere around the world that the philosophy that he expounds has worked as yet.

We are a democratically elected Government, elected by the people on a programme put before them, and on that we must work. I tell Deputy Quinn and everybody else who is worried about our stay in power that we ensured our stay in power in the past and I have little doubt that we will ensure it in the future. All we hear from the far side of the House are the words "impossible,""impracticable", "unimpressed" about both the Green Paper and the record of this Government since we came to office. These words were used this time last year as a condemnation of our election manifesto. They re-echo the words we heard in the sixties when Senator Whitaker's plan for economic development in Ireland was produced. I am not surprised, because it takes some time for a document like the Green Paper to be studied and digested. It is a discussion document pointing out the options, where the Government intend to go and where we have no doubt the Irish people intend to go. We have no doubt in our minds that the overwhelming vote of confidence given to us last June was a clear indication from the Irish people that we were to lead them out of the cul-de-sac in which they found themselves back to the road that would lead to where they would find hope for the future and confidence in their own ability to solve their problems.

I am new to this House as is Deputy Quinn, but I know that the reality of politics is that you put your programme before the people and they will be the judges at the end of the day. We have always accepted their judgment and we will be delighted to continue to do so. The thinking at the other side of the House is sterile, though not to the same extent with Deputy Quinn as it is with other Deputies whom I have heard in this debate. One would have thought that with the change in leadership which had to come about in Fine Gael as well as in the Labour Party there would be a new way of thinking and something constructive and positive to be heard in this debate. Such was not forthcoming. With the great show that they put on for the media and the outside world with their specially handpicked delegates coming to their ArdFheis—fill it up with young ones, we do not want the old fellows, we have to present a new image—one would have thought that, having tried to present that image on television and the other media we would get more positive thinking from them. After such a pepped-up performance I would have expected to hear more from them. If they had been in the World Cup, like Scotland they would have finished in the same situation, all pepped up and nowhere to go.

: The RDS is a better place for horse shows than for Ard-Fheiseanna.

: We do not have to move a stage down half way in the RDS to make the show on television that 3,000 is equal to 7,000. I do not believe that 3,000 ever equalled 7,000 but some people try to convince us that it does. The same thing goes for the criticisms we hear of the famous job creation programme initiated by Fianna Fáil. They believe the live register one month when it suits them to do so and they do not believe it the next month. They said last June that we were presenting a fairytale document and they are now saying that we have presented another fairytale document. But the results are there. We could not have expected anything more pleasing than to be able to say to the people after our first year in office that we have a birthday present of a reduction in unemployment down to under 100,000 for the first time in many years and inflation down to 6½ per cent, the lowest since 1970. The £1 in your pocket can buy more for you, for the workers, for the socially deprived and for the Government because they will have more money to use and to go around.

This is the kind of action the people, especially the young people, voted for last June. The live register shows a figure of 99,000 and there are people who say that despite that, 10,000 more jobs were not created. I have heard academics on the far side of the House agree with this side that for every eight jobs we create only five come off the live register. If we reducd the live register by 10,000, then we produce not 10,000 jobs but 16,000 jobs. I have little doubt that that is the more realistic figure and, if we could find out accurately, I believe the figure would be even higher. I do not see the queues of unemployed that are talked about here. The only yardstick the people of Longford, who elected me to this House, can use is the expansion and development that has taken place and the people will judge Fianna Fáil, as they will judge me, on our performance. The whole country was stagnating and anyone who does not believe what I am saying can go down to Longford and see for himself what is happening there.

Longford has raised its head. We have a road allocation of £1,200,000, which is 70 per cent more than we got from the Coalition last year. We have approvals for water schemes and sewage schemes and the allocation is almost double what it was last year. We have a housing allocation sufficient to meet the needs of the programme devised for the county. We have a very large extension in industrial projects large and small. Two American companies have come in. One will produce 400 jobs at stage one and the second will produce 100 jobs at stage one. But the former will go on to 800 jobs at stage two and the latter to 170 jobs at stage two. We had the pleasure of having the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy in Longford to open four small factories in one day, a record for any Minister as far as I am aware. We are building an industrial structure with the small industry complementing the large industry and we will have jobs for all our people, possibly not the kind they all want to do but certainly sufficient jobs over the next couple of years, and, when the time comes, I will face the people down there with a job well done and tell them what the record is. I will say to my opponents; "There is the record. Beat it if you can." I have spelled out the jobs that have been created and the jobs that are coming forward.

Agriculture has benefited from the great bonanza which the Minister for Agriculture, Deputy Gibbons, brought back from Brussels. I heard it said he was looking for 2 per cent or 1½ per cent and that that was not enough. But the Minister for Agriculture played his part properly and he came back with a bonanza of 8 per cent for Irish farmers, which will put an extra £100 million into the pockets of the farming community in a full year.

We are developing every facet which will increase production. I do not believe for one moment the statistics thrown around here about the live register. I employed 38 people last October and, when I went to check the register, 8 of these people came off the live register. I do not say that is the criterion for the whole country. The criteria for rural Ireland are different from those of urban areas. I have no doubt the situation has changed dramatically. Confidence has returned. Confidence in investment has returned. The incentive to work has been restored. The incentive to invest has likewise been restored. Self-respect has been given back to the people after four-and-a-half years of doom and gloom.

Any fair-minded person looking at the record of the Government would be proud to be Irish. The Fianna Fáil Government have lifted the people out of the doldrums. They have led the people out of the cul-de-sac and put them back on the right road. Having brought the economy so far it is now our duty to sustain it and keep it on a proper course. It is our duty to point the way forward. The Green Paper has been produced as a basis for discussion. It points the options required to cure the major problems from which the nation suffers. I was amazed at the sterile arguments and phony hypocrisy on the other side of the House when major problems were there for discussion. I have come in here to help to offer solutions.

I could not attempt to deal with the Green Paper in the short time at my disposal, but the biggest problem that confronts us is job creation. We know there are influences affecting us and other countries. In modern technology the machine is replacing the man. We must face up to that. We should be looking seriously at our taxation and grant structures to see if we can narrow the gap between the machine and the man. Trade unionists talk about the cost. The cost to them is one thing but the gross cost to the employer is 27 per cent more, and when trade unionists look for wage increases and try to equate them with the cost of production they ignore the 27 per cent extra cost added on to what the man brings home on Friday night in his pay package. They will tell you that what the man brings home on Friday night is his pay package. They will tell you that what the man brings home on Friday is what counts. When we talk about job creation and job sharing we must face realities. We must look at the situation as it is. If a man is earning £60 a week on continuous overtime he will naturally not want to find himself in the position of having to take home less. With the overtime he has improved his standard of living. It has become his way of life. To try to sell him the idea that he should take less in order to help his friend down the road to find work is simply not on.

I take a different approach. We have millions invested in factories all over the country and that investment for the most part lies idle for 16 hours out of every 24. It is used for just eight hours a day. I believe the Government should consider a labour subsidy to enable an employer to take on the same number of people on an additional shift. When a shift system is introduced there is a gap of 12 to 20 per cent to be made up for those who have to go off after the ordinary eight-hour day on to shift work. The man earning £60 a week will get 20 per cent of that £60, which is £12 a week, as his shift allowance, and he will be quite happy with that, as I have proved in my own operations, because he will not be reducing his standard of living and, concomitant with that the employer will be able to take on extra staff provided there is a subsidy during the time he will need to develop his markets at home or abroad. Shift working can be a way of reducing overheads and unit costs.

I would like to see this area pursued with vigour and determination. The employers could be given an incentive to export their products or to review their costs in the home market. They will not do that at the moment because they are afraid to stick out their necks. I know there is a market for their products because I am in the market place very often.

I was glad to hear the Taoiseach say that a definite emphasis was being put on the processing of food and that agriculture was to be the main thrust in the revival of our economy. I have always believed that grass is our greatest natural resource. We have the best grasslands in the world and can produce the finest agricultural products. We are exporting our raw materials to create the jobs in other countries which are badly needed at home. I was glad to hear that emphasis was being put on quality Irish food. As a small nation we can specialise in the production of such food.

I was amazed to hear the Opposition spokesman for agriculture saying he did not believe we could process food on an economical scale. I do not take that view. As I said I am often in the market place and I know there is plenty of room for processing quality foods. This country can facilittate small food producers who are willing to specialise. These firms can send their representatives to find out what products are needed, because there is no point in producing a commodity if there is no demand for it. We are in the Common Market with access to 250 million people. We have first-class raw materials. It is time we stopped thinking that somebody else will solve our problems. The main thrust must come from agriculture. There are many difficulties ahead because this is not an area in which we specialised in the past.

I have heard arguments on the live versus the dead trade. I do not believe in doing away with the live trade because we need the raw materials for our processing industries. I do not believe that if we stopped the live trade tomorrow we would be better off. Everybody in the business knows that we need the live trade as an insurance policy, as a safety valve to ensure that the farmer gets a true price. In 1974 we saw the collapse of our cattle market and advantage was taken of the producers, and the small producer carried the can.

We are killing 1,100,000 cattle for the export trade. We are putting sides of beef into containers and letting somebody else cut it up and prepare it for the customer. We are taking the easy, the lazy way out. We are losing jobs which could be done by our children and eventually their children.

The Government cannot solve all our unemployment problems; they need the will of the people to do that. We cannot stand aloof and say that this is somebody's else's problem. This is what history has shown us to be and this is what history has made us. Because we have been downtrodden for so long we are a dependent people and look to somebody else to solve our problems. Years ago people in the country looked to the county councils to solve their problems. As television became more popular they started to look to Dublin and now they are looking to Brussels to solve their problems. Nobody owes us a living. It is time we solved our own problems, and the Government can only do that with the full co-operation of the people. I do not believe our people are not prepared to take up this challenge, because they are the same people who came through the famine and who faced crisis after crisis, even Coalition crisis in 1948, the fifties and the seventies. I was a victim of the fifties crisis.

: The Deputy does not look hungry.

: I know where the Coalition went wrong. They never inspire confidence in anybody, even in themselves. Maybe Fine Gael are not satisfied with their new leader. I read a survey in today's paper which shows they have lost ground since the survey carried out last October or November We have no leadership problems.

This country needs direction and leadership. We have the leadership and the confidence to transmit to the people the magnitude of the problem facing us. Every person born in this country retains an Irish characteristic. Given the tools they are prepared to do the job. I am not very handy around the house but if I have to do a job I make the best of it and I am no different from any other Irish person.

Our schools are turning out thousands of young people with academic qualifications because their parents believed that was the kind of education to have. In my view a person should be suited for his job. One of our big problems is that many of our young people are not suited to their jobs and were never shown the direction their education should take. I do not want to look back, I prefer to look forward.

The measures taken by the Government are short term. The AnCO apprenticeship and training schemes and the schemes run by the Department of Education are also short term. In my constituency we have taken full advantage of these schemes by showing the young people where the long term and short term vacancies are. This big training problem must be faced and the young people will have to be trained. We must do something about giving them practical experience. We know from the advertising pages of our newspapers that there is no scarcity of jobs. The jobs are there but where are the people to fill them? Many young girls with their leaving and intermediate certificates also know shorthand and typewriting. Every job says "experience required" or "experience an advantage". These young people do not have the necessary experience. We should encourage industry and commercial concerns to give these girls on-the-job training. Since the State has not the facilities to tackle this major problem we should be encouraging industrialists to become involved in the training of these girls in order that there would be hope for them for the future. They could be given, say, 12 months training in industry but with the State footing the bill for their training. Although there would be some loss in production during the period in training the effort would be worth while in the long run. I am sure that commercial concerns would be willing to co-operate in such schemes.

Parents have always considered that the best second-level education for their children was to be obtained in secondary schools and that a boy or girl who had a leaving certificate was equipped for a good place in life. As one who obtained the leaving certificate I can say that not once was I asked to produce it. The jobs of the eighties are in the industrial sphere, and that is why we must concentrate to a far greater extent on technical education. There is a great shortage of trained personnel in the technological field. Therefore, parents should encourage their children to opt for education in this area. Our schools are doing a fine job in providing this type of education, but perhaps more educational facilities in the technological field are required.

There is far too much emphasis on third-level education. A boy who has a skill will find it much easier to get a job than will someone who has been through the academic stream. In addition a person in the technological sphere will be likely to be paid more than somebody in the academic sphere. The main thrust of our economy is centred in our agricultural industry, but this must be expanded by industrialising that industry more. I look forward during my time in the House to see definite moves in this direction. I am partly involved in that side of the operation and I am aware of the opportunities in the market. I welcome the announcement this week from the Industrial Credit Corporation that money will be made available on a ten-year period basis and at fixed interest rates for people in small food-processing companies.

There are many other areas that I should like to comment on but, hopefully, at some time in the future we shall have an opportunity of discussing further this Green Paper. As was mentioned in one of the newspapers yesterday, we do not need a summer school to tell us what is contained in the Green Paper. We have read it and we know what it contains. Many of the items in it provide plenty of scope for thought. I trust that it will be given the consideration it deserves and that each of us here will get on with the job that the people elected us to do.

: In the few moments remaining to me I would like to make a number of remarks which may be timely at the termination of a year's business of this Dáil. Clearly it is impossible to go into the various aspects in any depth.

It is my sincere impression that one of the primary questions which should be before us is that of considering some method of overhauling our system of Dáil business. There is an urgent need for Dáil reform. The adjournment of the Dáil this evening for four months can be nothing but a bad example to people who are exhorted continuously to increase productivity. Apart from that consideration it is regrettable that there is being suspended for this period the opportunity which is afforded by the democratic system of regular scrutiny and evaluation of the process of Government. During the coming four months we shall have government by Cabinet without the appropriate public examination and scrutiny which the working of Parliament permits. Such a situation would be avoidable if we were all of the one mind in that regard. I am not talking about this Government but about future governments and the way in which the country is to be run generally.

Fundamentally we are talking about the relevance of this Assembly. I am conscious of a gradual trend towards irrelevance. I get the impression that we in this Chamber do not, except in a peripheral way, deal with the business of the nation, that this task is undertaken to some extent behind our backs, that we are players on the wing and that the central stage is dominated by the Cabinet of the day and by their civil servants. Occasionally we are given a piece of legislation on which to chew for a short period. We chew on it for as long as we believe there is meat in it for whatever purpose we wish to use it and then we go on to something else. We should be a much more meaningful Assembly. There is the impression that in a sense we are here merely to express views for the record rather than to listen intently to the proceedings. I am as guilty as anybody else in that respect. At the end of the year I ask myself where I have listened with the appropriate respect, courtesy and intensity to what has been said, particularly by the people opposite, and I am inclined to think that I have been remiss in this respect. I am sure that the situation is not much different in reverse. This is sad because cumulatively there is among us a great depth of resource, of expertise and of ability to contribute to our national welfare. However, the structures we have make of us what we are. Ultimately, the question will be whether we dominate those structures or whether they dominate us. The evidence now is that they dominate us and that we are unable or unwilling to ask ourselves now and again whether this assembly and, indeed the Seanad also, are fitting forums for the business with which we must deal. Even those businesses in the country that are only semi-efficient will have a monitoring process for regular reconsideration of their goals and objectives in order to ascertain whether targets are being met. I am not aware of any such process in this most central of all organisations.

Recently, for example, we have been discussing Estimates for amounts that have been either spent or allocated already and not one penny of which will be changed by anything that is said here. In the literal sense we are a reactionary Chamber. Legislation is introduced as a reaction to pressures or lobbies or to political commitments, sometimes of a dubious nature. We seem to be unable to respond to the need to discuss in a meaningful way business of an urgent and serious nature. We deal with one or two expedient measures and are not really the proper forum for the debate that is required. We should be much more responsive to public, social and political needs.

One could be negative all the time, but there are many changes we could make. For instance, we could have a type of pre-legislative forum at which the best of all the ideas in the House could be pooled into the perameters of the proposed legislation. It would make not alone for less intransigent opposition but for much better legislation, to the benefit of everybody. For example we might consider some sort of pre-legislative forum where the best of all ideas in this House could be pooled into the parameters of proposed legislation the appropriate Minister would have before him. Is it correct that the Committee Stage of a Bill should hold up the central forum of this House while all other business remains in the queue behind it? I doubt it, and I think most people would agree. We should have some system of being able to introduce urgent business in a serious way. That does not exist at present.

In a nutshell, the Dáil should be the focal point of considered, deliberate and progressive change. I see no evidence of such at present. It is regrettable, because the quality of our endeavour and the output will be more important always than the number of hours, days or weeks we spend here. In fairness, if one looks at either the quality or quantity of what we have been doing, I suggest neither has been great. That is not to say that Deputies and Ministers are all on holiday for four months as and from this evening. That is a popular and rather irritating myth particularly for somebody who is fulltime like myself, who will find the same work in terms of quantity there tomorrow as today. The quality and orientation will change slightly but certainly there will be an enormous volume of work with which I will have to contend the same as everybody else.

We have had the White Paper, the Green Paper, the manifesto and possibly a gold paper prior to the next election—a slim and nebulous library. I wonder if the real jobs in all of that are being created only for the printers and paper manufacturers involved in the production of these documents. It seems to me that what we have been doing really has been a kind of economic shadow-boxing, creating a climate in which people will expect and accept certain cutbacks when the time comes. I would have hoped that Governments, and Ministers particularly, would enjoy the processes of decision— making. Yet the most popular words— and here I am not being particularly critical of this Government; I do not know what the previous situation was but I suspect it was not very much different—are "review", "reconsideration", "in-depth studies", "analysis" and so on.

There appears to be no real willingness to make decisions, even sometimes in the knowledge that if one makes decisions one will make the occasional wrong one but that perhaps even a wrong decision now and again is better than no decision; on the basis that, if one makes decisions more often than not they will turn out to be good decisions. The representatives of the people have common sense, understand what they are about here, have a mandate and should get on with the job. Instead of that we have a tremendous amount of kicking to touch for various reasons. Therefore, there is enormous opportunity for inspiration, for leadership, for guidance to young people who want to believe in this Assembly, who want to believe in the Government of the day in the hope that they will give them a lead. That has been lost.

We have had Estimates considered. The Estimate for Education was not an Education Estimate; it was a financial statement of the cost of education. It showed no consideration of the need for new forms of education, new ideas and thinking in education. Incidentally, I should say that I consider the Minister for Education as one of the more adventurous, progressive and dynamic Ministers in the Government. One turns then to Estimates such as that for the Department of the Environment where the Minister's opening statement was very revealing. He appeared to be mesmerised by the sheer size of the Estimate. The question of any new idea or thinking about local government structures —incidentally many of the ideas were committed in that now famous manifesto—has fallen by the wayside. In the area of justice we did not have an opportunity of looking at the Estimate in depth. Again we saw no visionary steps. That is particularly sad because justice is the kind of area, as is education, in which if one got the format right, with goodwill all around, with a desire to make basic changes, enormous social good could follow for the community at all levels. It does not happen. We have not considered many of the types of changes in the area of justice which would be very receptive to implementation and worthy of consideration.

The same would apply to other Ministries. For example, take that of Fisheries where we had the sell-out of the century about which nobody seemed to bother very much, very different from the kinds of sounds being made prior to the last general election —a narrow traditional view of these various Ministries inherited and, unfortunately, accepted by some Ministers. It is sad. Surely the first days of any new Government must be seen as a time for brave new steps, which may not all be in the right direction but which, on balance, would be right. What has happened is that we have a Government which is fundamentally reactionary.

Cá bhfuil Údarás na Gaeltachta, geallúint briste eile? We had various promises when people pledged certain steps which have not been taken. I am not that worried in that respect except in so far as it would hurt young people who have a vision and hope for the future; we on this side of the House do not want to make them cynical no more than anybody else. If, early in the next session, we took an hour or two off to consider ways and means of utilising the best talents of this House to greater effect— perhaps, in the first stage, by having an All-Party Committee on Dáil Reform to ascertain if we could administer the business of the House in a more efficient way—I have no doubt the country as a whole would respond to that gesture and be the beneficiary.

: We have had a longish debate in which there has been fairly full participation by Members from all sides of the House. Most speakers addressed themselves to the Taoiseach's opening statement, to the motion put by him that we comment on the Green Paper on development for full employment and that we adjourn.

The Green Paper contains within its covers much that the Government have been discussing over the past year. As the Taoiseach pointed out it follows logically on the elements in the White Paper earlier this year. The claim from the Government side is that the White Paper contains the genesis of a plan which will be finalised, hopefully, in discussions with employers and unions which will be chaired, as we understand it, by the Minister for Economic Planning and Development.

At this point in the year, when unemployment has dropped for the first time in so many years, the Government may say that much in their garden seems fair. But they would be the first to concede that the seasonal improvement now taking place in em-ployment—which reflects this reduced figure on the register—surely would not have been possible if in the years since 1975 economic recovery had not been under way. I am satisfied, and it is the Labour Party's contention, that the improvement shown in the unemployment register is such that can give us confidence of an average reduction over this year of 20,000 in the Live Register. We would say that the limited improvement taking place—assisted by such seasonal factors as normally take place in summer, increased construction activity and so on—would not have been possible had we not recorded extraordinary growth in exports from the latter part of 1975 onwards, in 1976 and 1977. We should not quibble here—nor has there been much evidence during the debate from this side of the House at any rate— that whatever improvement has taken place is, in most part due to the actions of an administration in which the Labour Party had a say. Fundamentally we consider that though there has been an improvement it is still not sufficient to take up the slack or to assure every young man and woman of a job. Finally, we see it as purely a seasonal phenomenon. There has been an improvement in employment. But we consider that, with the on-coming autumn and winter, with increased numbers of young people leaving schools and colleges, once more, regrettably, the unemployment situation will become even more severe.

Our chief disappointment is that the Green Paper appears, even as an option, to suggest no new policy departure; it appears to be content to rely, in the main, on existing policies. We were still awaiting the kind of action we were promised in the White Paper when we read the Green Paper. It depends on what happens in the discussions with employers and unions as to whether the later more definitive White Paper we are promised in October will be better than the previous productions. That is our chief indictment of Government policy as we come to this last day of the Dáil.

Apart from the deficit budget they ran this year, the kind of borrowings they undertook, we cannot see any evidence of the radical policies promised by them, that would demonstrate that they were ready to embark on policies that would make full employment a reality in the eighties. Instead as a poor substitute for these socalled radical new policies we have work sharing. Whatever else may be said, it cannot be maintained that work sharing is a new policy. It has been around in EEC circles for many years now and it cannot be suggested that it has much chance of acceptance here. That is a matter which will be taken up when the social partners discuss it with Professor O'Donoghue.

Incidentally, it is not quite clear what the terms of reference of the Minister will be, when meeting the employers and the unions after the Dáil rises. There was a suggestion that the Minister for Economic Planning and Development would not discuss financial matters with them, and the range of discussions to be opened between the Minister, the unions and the employers has yet to be ascertained. I have some experience of meetings of this sort, and I know that there will be a legitimate expectation by the trade unions that positive proposals will be put before them. I the Green Paper is to be taken as an expression of positive proposals, it does not take much imagination to foresee that the approaching discussions will not be as successful as perhaps some Members of the Government might wish them to be. Indeed, it would be difficult to see them being successful in the absence of the kind of policies that will call forth union support.

One suggestion for job creation from the trade unions was the establishment of a national development corporation. That, as we know, was summarily rejected by the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy and instead the substitute idea of a consortium was proposed. The evidence we have of the activity of that consortium to date does not suggest that any great activity can be expected from that quarter. In fact the same kind of sluggish lack of progress evident there as in the employment action team from which so much was hoped a year ago in the area of youth employment. There will be a critical approach by the unions in these talks in the absence of positive policies to deal with employment, and especially given the rather cursory rejection their policy proposals on employment by the Government.

I suppose it is a tribute to the effectiveness, in the sense of its ability to win an election, of the manifesto that almost one year later the Taoiseach in his speech on the Green Paper could refer to it. It appears that every work of this Government so far can be related to that originating document. Indeed, the point has been made to some Ministers that so rich was that document in ideas that it largely accounts for the legislation in the first year's life of this Dáil. The Taoiseach referred to the manifesto and the Green Paper refers to it. Last Sunday in a radio programme the Minister for Finance said that the fundamental objective spelt out in the Green Paper is to achieve full employment and he challenged anyone who did not share that aspiration to state so and to make their positions clear. The aspiration for full employment is shared by every Member of this House and I am sure by all members of the community. That aspiration is as common as the aspiration for a united Ireland through peaceful means. The Taoiseach also referred to the manifesto as his authority for stating that the unity of Ireland by peaceful means is a common aspiration. The Minister will not get many takers to the challenge issued last Sunday, to those who would declare themselves as being against full employment. The Minister last Sunday said that the policies for full employment were spelled out in the Green Paper. They are not. The Green Paper is almost in the same position of putting questions and options as was the White Paper last January.

When the manifesto was first published, on which the Green Paper and the White Paper are based and to which the Taoiseach referred at the start of this debate, it offered the electorate an extraordinary solution to the complex problem of unemployment. The manifesto suggested that if they voted for the abolition of rates and motor car taxation and to reduce income tax, there would be a fall at the rate of almost 25,000 each year over the succeeding three years in unemployment. That was the basis on which the manifesto was founded and on which the election was won. The Taoiseach in his opening remarks supported the Green Paper, just as the Minister for Finance last Sunday supported full employment. The Minister last Sunday looked for adversaries of full employment and the Taoiseach at the start of this debate looked for those who would oppose the Green Paper that he supports. Which part of the Green Paper does the Taoiseach support? Does the Taoiseach support the various cuts listed in the Green Paper, those unattractive grisly options which were not referred to at great length by Government speakers during this debate? Does the Taoiseach support the major portion of the Green Paper which is given over to fantasy?

The fantasy in the Green Paper is in the claim that a strategy exists to deal with unemployment, that a policy has been spelt out in the Green Paper that will expand employment. The grim realities for next year and the year after spelled out in the Green Paper are the cuts suggested in health, education and in local authority housing. Those are the realities in the Green Paper as distinct from the options. Those are the realities that the representatives of the party of reality have been evading in this discussion during the last two days. We read on page 6 of the Green Paper:

This Green Paper proposes an ambitious programme for ending unemployment within five years.

One feature which must be remarked on in relation to the white papers, green papers, or whatever colour they are called, produced by this administration is that they are always stronger in the preface than in the conclusion. I have read no more stirring words for a long time than the preface to the Green Paper, as stated in the quotation I have just given. It also states on the same page:

The Government believe that the public is far more ready for the impact of radical policies than is commonly supposed—if they can be clearly seen to be effective in ending the evil of unemployment.

There is no word more overused in the English language than "radical" as a description of policies, and I suppose politicians, as a class, are more responsible than others for denuding this word of any meaning, if it has any meaning now, which I doubt it has. If that has been the fault of politicians in the past, this administration can be fairly charged with taking from the word "radical" by apportioning in their preface to the Green Paper, that description to the contents of the Green Paper. There is a strong preface to the Green Paper. We are told to read the conclusions but there is no recipe for action and no certain suggestions in it for anybody's attention.

The earlier pale production of this 84-man Government, the one called the White Paper, in page 5 of its preface states that it:

—outlines the Government's thinking on the crucial issues of economic and social development and the measures proposed to deal with them.

There is a lyrical touch in that preface to the White Paper, the harbinger of the Green Paper when it says:

This White Paper is not intended to be a detailed plan. This plan will emerge from a planning cycle which the Government intend to introduce from February to October of each year from now on.

We will not go into the lyrical touches of that, but that is the preface.

With regard to the citizen who has invested 90p for either the White Paper or the Green Paper we find a chapter, on page 67 of the White Paper, entitled "Next Steps" where it is stated:

The development strategy laid out in this White Paper represents a positive and realistic attempt to set our economy on the road to national reconstruction.

If the man who has bought the White Paper for 90p persists in his belief that there is some positive policy around the corner and hopefully spends another 90p on the Green Paper he will find in it under a chapter dealing with next steps that there is again this absence of detailed development. He will find in Chapter 6 under "Further Action on Employment" that it states:

The introduction to this section of the Green Paper estimated an increase of about 22,000 non-agricultural jobs a year as being achieveable with the policies now in operation. The White Paper targets require an average of 29,000 jobs. There is thus, a potential gap of over 7,000 annually to be bridged.

There is no development strategy spelled out in the preceding 62 pages before this chapter on Further Action on Employment in the Green Paper.

The conscientious citizen who has purchased this Green Paper is told in the preface that it sets out an ambitious programme for ending unemployment within five years. The actual production itself bears little evidence of the kind of policies that this man might expect which differ from policies pursued in the past and which are likely to bring about this result.

If we look at Chapter 6 we find that it refers to an increase of about 22,000 non-agricultural jobs a year as being achievable with the policies now in operation. It is assumed in the Green Paper that on existing policies we can produce 22,000 non-agricultural jobs a year and that this is achievable on existing targets. There is the further unproved assumption that the growth target this year will be 7 per cent, which is looking more and more doubtful but because it may be possible to get 7 per cent this year that a similar rate will be achieved in 1979 and 1980.

These are the unproven assumptions in the Green Paper linked to employment projections, again stated to be achievable without any further proof. This is the kind of material that our gullible citizen, who spends 90p each on those two documents as an insight into the Government's thinking, will get as a reward for his careful reading, the runaround between the preface and Chapter 6, between great expectations in the preface and rather grim reality breaking in at the end, where we see unproven figures and no arguments spelled out in which growth rates can be achieved in the earlier portions of the study.

This is the production which the Taoiseach told us at the start of this debate has his full support. The feeling appears to be strong in Government circles that one should read back to the White Paper and if the White Paper supports the Green Paper's assumptions that somehow proves it. We have the position in which the party of reality are beginning to confuse the facts of ordinary life with the rhetoric of their productions, whether they are green or white. The reasons for thinking that a 7 per cent growth rate, that 22,000 new jobs, will be created on existing policies, are scarcely discussed in the Green Paper. It ignores the major problems facing our economy over the next few years. It could be said of the Green Paper that it assumes all of those problems out of the way.

We had in the White Paper of six months ago the statement that there would be promotion of new sources of enterprise both in the private and public sector. Some of us who thought that there might be some evidence of fresh economic analysis and proposals coming from this administration perhaps also thought that we might get some evidence of a new approach by the Government on the use of State enterprise to promote new employment. We were disappointed because if that promotion of sources of new enterprise in the private and public sectors was promised in the White Paper it gets no attention at all in the Green Paper. We are simply assured that existing policies will bring us 20,000 new non-agricultural jobs each year. The Green Paper avoids how over a three-year period those 66,000 new jobs are to be provided. If one assumes that existing policies will give a growth rate over the next three years of 7 per cent and 22,000 new jobs every year, then, just because this Government have 84 Deputies presumably, ergo all we are looking for is 7,000 non-agricultural new industrial jobs each year. That is the attempt of the Green Paper but the reality— and this is my fundamental argument —which breaks through the Green Paper is that the Tánaiste, if he remains in that job—and some think he may be called to higher things——

: A move to a more popular position.

: Maybe so. What the Green Paper proposes for the Tánaiste's tender attention in the next two years will amount to a major deflationary impact on the economy, because over the next two years, the Green Paper tells us, the borrowing requirement will be reduced as a proportion of GNP by 5 per cent and the bulk of this reduction will have to come from deflationary measures either by increased taxation, reduced expenditure or both. The Green Paper does not address itself to the most important question from our point of view—how are the high growth rates, presumed to continue for the next three years, to be maintained with the Exchequer looking for the extra cash it will be looking for? How is that to be maintained in the face of the severe deflationary policies which the Green Paper spells out will be followed by this Government? The Green Paper says that the economic stimulus of increasing State expenditure has to be less generous than in 1978. The truth is that there will be no economic stimulus at all from the Government over the next two years if the Green Paper prescription is followed to the letter. That is the reality.

It may be said that though the reduction in borrowing may be necessary it will not affect the economic performance over the next two years, that that somehow will be miraculously maintained. Since the publication of the Green Paper the Minister for Economic Planning and Development has been restored to life. He had been preserving what for him was an unaccustomed silence but now he is back and he has been losing his temper regularly on radio and television. The adrenalin is flowing at its accustomed rate for the Minister. It is a good thing for the Government that the Minister for Economic Planning and Development has returned to the fray to explain what is up, because he has some explanations to make. There are some difficulties to be overcome, some things we do not understand. In January, with the publication of the White Paper, he told us that we were embarking on a gamble with taxpayers' money based on foreign debt. After the publication of the Green Paper his task becomes more difficult. In January he outlined the measures that would lead to expansion in the economy—pump priming, additional public investment, increased public spending, cuts in tax. These were to restore confidence, and more jobs would follow. Now his task is to explain how cuts in public spending, and increases in taxation are to be without effect on the economy. How are jobs to be maintained when more is to be taken out of the economy than is being put into it by the Government? That is the job of explanation that now devolves on the Minister.

In 1978 the Government pumped something like £330 million more into the economy than they pumped in in 1977 but in 1979 some £68 million more will be taken out of the economy than will be put in. There will be a further net withdrawal of £51 million, on their figures, in 1980. It is the unhappy task of the Minister to explain how all these things can be done and the job targets set out here attained as well. Far from trying to suggest that we are on the high road to the achievement of additional employment, the members of this administration should be explaining how their policies will maintain existing employment. A press conference was held and it excited some comment that on so important a subject it could boast only one Minister present, the Minister for Economic Planning and Development. The correspondents were able to pick up the Green Paper and, like most people, add and subtract, and they turned to the Minister and his officials and said: "There is to be a reduction in public investment by the Government" but the Minister replied: "There will be no cuts. My friend Charles Haughey, the Minister for Health, will suffer no cuts. My friend John Wilson will suffer no cuts. We are resolved that no cuts will occur despite the fact that the Exchequer will be on the prowl for more money."

The Minister has a difficult task to explain these apparent contradictions, but I suppose contradictions are the stuff of political life and if you are in a Fianna Fáil Cabinet conflicts and contradictions should not deter you. If these are the policies on which we are pinning our hopes the conclusion is inescapable. Unemployment must begin its sad upward march once more in the late autumn and winter. There is no good news in this Green Paper for the youth of this country.

There is no doubt that the biggest challenge facing us is unemployment. The Green Paper fails to confront the major task of finding answers to solve unemployment. The major task is the reorganising of the economy for adequate growth and output. The Green Paper fails to confront such questions. Because of this evasion there can be no confidence that unemployment will be reduced significantly during 1978, even if account is taken of the improvement during the summer. One must seriously doubt that the Government's responses, consisting of an almost total reliance on the capacity of existing industry to provide more jobs, will prove adeqate. On the basis of the policy options in the Green Paper, there can be little hope held out to the nation's youth that unemployment will be significantly reduced in 1978. It is difficult to accept that the unemployment register will fall during 1978, by the average predicted by the Government of 20,000. It gives me no satisfaction to be unable to support the idea that there can be hope for the nation's youth. The point needs to be stressed that continued high unemployment here carries as lethal a threat to the cohesion of our society as actual physical violence has wreaked in Northern Ireland.

The challenge facing the people in the next two decades is immense, if emigration is not to be tolerated and if we are to approach full employment. Membership of the EEC will be a continuing reality and there are, as yet, no significant regional or industrial development policies at EEC level to compensate for the reduced capacity in national decision-making. Growth prospects in industry in the postrecovery period do not envisage a significant reduction in unemployment in the years ahead. Third World countries will properly demand in-increased access to EEC markets for agricultural and industrial products. At the same time, in order to produce the 30,000 net jobs a year required into the eighties the economy would need to grow continuously from 7 per cent to 9 per cent a year.

It was the perceived failure of the previous administration to bring forward convincing policies to ameliorate the unemployment crisis that largely accounted for the election defeat. The core of the appeal for young people of the Government's programme was their commitment to a massive effort to reduce unemployment by specific targets over the four years of their administration. If they renege on their commitment, this administration will reap a bitter whirlwind. If the members of the Government are as serious about tackling unemployment as they were in Opposition, I recommend that they reassess their current employment policy. They could begin by discarding the Green Paper. Policy initiatives, whatever their source, should be examined on their merits. The trade union recommendation that a national development corporation should be established to revitalise the State sector is worthy of more than the cursory rejection it was given. I accept that the expansion of employment is an effort that would call for painful decisions by the people. But those painful decisions, those real sacrifices that need to be made by people at work if full employment is to become a reality, are not brought forward by the kind of platform which brought this Government to power and which they are still stuck with. The simple equation of that platform is to abolish rates and motor tax and automatically you have 25,000 more people off the unemployment register each year. That kind of equation does not get support for the action that is required.

The available figures from the statistics office show that emigration has started once more on a large scale. The provisional figures suggest that emigration is running at an annual rate of 14,000. Emigration on this scale has not occurred since the sixties. It will be the prime objective of the Labour Party to ensure that emigration is not seized upon by the Government to conceal their failure to provide adequate employment policies. Already we have the evidence of one member of the Government publicly stating that emigration might be a satisfactory way of dealing with our surplus labour. The Labour Party and the trade unions must build a working unity with our youth to defeat acceptance of the emigration option by the policy makers of the Government. To this end I hope our first annual youth conference in November will be the first step in such a national campaign.

The only policy that is worthy of being described as a new feature in the armoury of proposals for dealing with unemployment is work-sharing. It is not a new idea elsewhere—it has venerable currency at EEC level—but the first time it was mentioned here was in this paper. For the record, the most recent reference to work-sharing was in a leaked inner discussion document from the Secretary of the Department of Labour to the OECD. In 1975 this correspondence found its way into the papers by a route not discovered at the time. The secretary was blameless in the matter. I only instance it as an illustration that work-sharing is not a new idea, that it was being discussed at OECD level in 1975. It is a flagrant misdescription to describe work-sharing as a radical or new policy. Presumably work-sharing will be discussed with employers and unions. Have those who framed the proposals for discussion any conception of the realities of industrial relations?

Do they know, those who advise Ministers Colley and O'Donoghue, that overtime is considered an integral part of the wage rate throughout the country? The Green Paper was to be the repository of radical policies. What do we find at the end of the day? The bedraggled survivor of all these new policies and the only one that we can see in the Green Paper is work-sharing. Were those who sponsored the inclusion in the Green Paper of work-sharing aware that no union negotiator would accept a reduction in overtime for his members without monetary compensation? I present these facts because if they look over any State industry they will find these statements true. If that is the material of discussion with unions and employers I wish the Minister for Economic Planning and Development luck: I wish him bon voyage, but from what I know of the reality of industrial relations I cannot see that his efforts to get acceptance for the idea of work-sharing will be crowned with any great success.

I do not know what else he will discuss with the social partners. He has had some experience of such discussions. Usually they ask what I think is a fair question at such discussions. "What are your proposals?" I presume the Minister will refer to the Green Paper and that the discussion will come down to work-sharing. Perhaps he will even put forward the ideas on cutting the health services. Perhaps very good material for discussion at that level would be cutting back on local authority housing—one can imagine the enthusiasm with which that proposal would be greeted—perhaps even the cutbacks in education. In any case, he has a difficult task ahead, made more difficult when one considers that his colleague much earlier in the year rejected out of hand the trade union proposals for a national development corporation. When they suggested it, there was no support for the idea.

The White Paper, we are told, is not intended to be a detailed plan—no, the detailed plan will emerge from a planning cycle which the Government intend to introduce from February to October each year from now on. It is the Minister for Economic Planning and Development who will go into these discussions. It is not clear whether his instructions will permit him to go into the areas of financial cuts, but he will not find a great possibility of support on the work-sharing question. It is regrettable that the Minister cannot meet the unions and employers with a willingness to consider new policies for work creation; regrettable that he must assert as the Green Paper asserts, that existing policies would produce 22,000 new jobs each year. After all, the trade union movement has its experts and economists who will ask him very fairly if our industrial arm up to now has found it impossible to achieve such an increase on an annual basis, how he expects that it will achieve the rate hoped for by him in the future in the absence of new policies. They will put, to him, as this party has constantly put to the Government, the proposition: why not re-examine the possibility of expanding the State sector, of using the State to create new employment? Is there not a necessity for so doing when you consider the extent of foreign ownership in Irish industry? Even if you were not convinced of the ideological rightness of so doing, is there not a case to be made, if we want to prevent a complete takeover of Irish industry, for expanding the State sector?

The Minister will find himself in these discussions with the unions depending on the unproven assumptions of the Green Paper. He will not find himself, presumably, talking about Northern Ireland. The Taoiseach spoke about Northern Ireland at the opening of this debate and said that the central aim of their policy was to secure by peaceful means the unity and independence of Ireland, an aspiration which everybody in the House can subscribe to just as we can all subscribe to the aspiration of full employment.

Last Sunday the Minister for Finance was vainly looking for a political party which opposed the aspiration of full employment. I said earlier that I did not think he would get any takers for that challenge. Again, in this debate we have the Taoiseach talking about the unity and independence of Ireland. There is the implication in the Taoiseach's contribution that somehow he speaks for the entire Opposition. He does not speak for me when it comes to Northern Ireland. He does not speak for me if he thinks that continued iteration from this side of the Border of our desire for a united Ireland brings that aspiration nearer attainment.

The essence of the Northern question, as I see it, is how can we from this side of the Border improve the climate up there to the extent that political institutions in which both sides of the community co-operate with one another can be brought about and the two sides brought nearer? They are not brought nearer by politicians in Dublin constantly calling for the unity of Ireland. There is much work for us to do on this side of the Border before we start talking about the unity of Ireland. Everybody here subscribes to the objective of the unity of Ireland. I do; I hope the day will come as rapidly as possible and by peaceful means. Meantime, the job is to consider how we get both sides up there to work with each other.

That is the essence of the problem. The relationship between the two sides is not helped by speeches from this side of the Border, offers to unionists and so on. Instead, let us look at our Constitution. What changes does it need? Let us look at it without seeking gain from the Northern side of the Border. Let us look at the changes needed for the benefit of our own people. Let us see that conditions in our part of the country are improved and ensure that nobody on the other side of the Border can say that this State is the property of any one religion. These are the things we may do to improve the situation. Constant rhetorical references to the effect that we desire the unity of Ireland—everybody knows that—do not help.

The Taoiseach spoke of "the central aim". Is it any more central to the solution of the problem that we should call on the British to make a declaration? Is not the essence of the problem, of the relationship, the suspicion, the legacy of centuries of suspicion between the two communities there? Do all of us not know that the British are ready to go from that area whenever a working political relationship can be devised for the people of the area? Not long ago I belonged to an administration who resolutely set their face against making political capital out of the Northern situation. There are many things one may say on this side of the Border that are politically popular but they do not advance the cause of better relations between Protestants and Catholics in the North of Ireland. Even in Opposition we must set our face resolutely against that bad habit of appealing to opinion on this side of the Border only and not worrying about the impact on the Northern side. This is particularly the job of the Labour Party. We are a secular party, founded on working people, and it is our role particularly to improve relations between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland and we have political relations with working people of both those religions in the North of Ireland.

The Taoiseach does not include me in the kind of statements and policies he has been expressing on that question. The Government called for active consideration of the Green Paper. We say the policies are not in it and they accuse us of being bad patriots. The Minister for Finance has said that if a person does not agree with what is in the Green Paper it means he is for unemployment. That was the simple message he propagated last Sunday on radio. Of course, he is a man who believes in broad brush strokes. In the sixties he discovered low standards in high places——

: And was I proved right when the Deputy got into office?

: That was not the forecast the Minister made.

: The Deputy in possession should be allowed to continue without interruption. He has only two minutes to conclude.

: I do not know who the Minister meant when he referred to low standards in high places——

: It was Charlie, of course.

: I do not know. In his political career he has painted his opinions in broad primary colours. In the sixties it was "low standards in high places" and last Sunday it was "for employment or for unemployment". Presumably all those not enamoured of the proposals in the Green Paper are for unemployment. All we are saying is that we cannot agree with these proposals. We are like the child looking at the emperor who had no clothes; we see there are no policies in the Green Paper. What does the Minister want us to do? Does he want us to refer to the White Paper? The White Paper told us to refer to the Green Paper. I have spoken of the predicament of the conscientious citizen who put forward 90p for the White Paper and he was told what the next steps would be on page 67. He turns to the Green Paper and he finds that the next steps are still later. This is why we cannot have any confidence in the Government's policy on employment. We cannot find in it the material to support.

: First, I would ask the indulgence of the House. The content of my speech may annoy the Government but I am afraid the quality of my voice will annoy the whole House, including my own colleagues.

This party, as Deputy O'Leary has been saying about his party, are positive towards economic development. In so far as this Government's policies actually secure sustainable employment they will have our support. The problem of jobs naturally transcends party politics. There is nothing to be gained by trying to make a party political issue out of it. The suggestion that one party has some monopoly of not just wisdom but of idealism in this respect is unworthy of any serious politician. However, there can be— and in a democracy normally there will be—legitimate differences over the means of attaining specific goals, and in an area of economics as difficult as that of achieving full employment it is inevitable that there would be fairly deep differences.

We laid the foundations for growth in the closing period of our administration. The Taoiseach and other Ministers have recognised this in what they have said of the economic situation in 1977 which, in the nature of things, reflected almost totally the effects of National Coalition policies and not perceptibly those of Fianna Fáil policies. Indeed, given the time-lag in economic affairs between action taken and the ensuing consequences, it is probably fair to say that, with certain specific exceptions such as the Government action with regard to road tax last summer, virtually nothing that has happened in the period up to now has been the result of this Government's policies. I recognise that there are certain exceptions—the road tax remissions and possibly some additional employment in the public service, although I should prefer to await the final figures for the numbers in the public service at the end of the year before I would be constrained to admit any faster growth in that area than was achieved under our administration.

From now on Fianna Fáil are on their own. The effects of what we did have worked their way through the system. The effects of the actions taken by the Government since they came into office will be seen in what happens from this point onwards. It would be wrong for us to claim credit for any major part of the economic events that are about to ensue. It would be wrong for the Government to try to escape responsibility for any significant part of whatever may happen, or for us not to give the Government credit for achievements that may ensue in the period from now onwards.

In the nature of things, this first year has been an interim year in which the carry-over effects of our policies have brought this country into a position that is unique in the EEC and almost unique in the industrialised world in terms of the rate of economic growth achieved and have brought us to a position that, in terms of the reduction of inflation, is extremely satisfactory. In his speech the Taoiseach referred to the reduction in the rate of inflation, and he mentioned some of the reasons for it. He was, perhaps uncharacteristically, a little ungenerous in not giving credit to our Government for some of the actions which we took such as the special budget in 1975 which reduced the cost of living by 4 per cent. There was also the removal of VAT on food and clothing, tax remissions, and there were measures in relation to the tripartite talks which facilitated wage rounds that helped to keep down inflation and which probably played the major part in contributing to the reduction in inflation to the very low level that it has attained, at least for the moment. The reduction in inflation, with the exception of one or two minor adjustments made by Fianna Fáil which affected the cost of living index, derives entirely from our policies. The question is, where does inflation go from here? Does it remain at 6.2 per cent, or will it rise in the months and years ahead? That is one of the tests by which the Government will be judged.

Before the last election we prepared our plans for further economic development. We put these plans to the people in our election programme. The people chose otherwise because of the immediate financial benefits offered to them and because of the skill—and it was skill—with which the idea was sold to them that by the simple act of accepting financial largesse from the hands of a new Government they would, in some miraculous way, be helping to produce full employment.

The Green Paper now published has destroyed that illusion. It has shown that the price to be paid for these short-term benefits is a higher level of taxation than ever before by 1980. On this point the White Paper perpetrates an inaccuracy. I am not entitled in the House to use a stronger word. Despite its name, Development For Full Employment, the Green Paper is not primarily about job creation, though it purports to be that. Of course, it produces figures for the number of extra jobs that would be created with present policies, although it offers no explanation as to how these figures are arrived at. The White Paper says even less on that. The only figure I can find for which there is any authority whatever as regards jobs to be produced by present policies is the 10,000 for manufacturing industry, which at least has the authority of the IDA behind it. The Green Paper produces the figures that it says would be created with present policies and it tells us how many more jobs can be created by the White Paper policy without linking the policies to the figures in any meaningful way so far as economic analysis is concerned. It tells how many more jobs would have to be created to end unemployment and offers, too, alleged options toward that end.

All this playing around with job figures is dust thrown in the eyes of the public to ensure that when readers come to chapter 7, headed "Financial Implications," they will not be able to observe clearly the con trick involved in this chapter. This chapter is the key chapter in this report, the chapter around which this report is built, but has nothing to do with job creation. There is not one word on the subject in the whole chapter. The nearest this chapter comes to dealing with the question of job creation, supposed to be central to this document, is in the tables towards the end where if you read the small print figures it emerges that this Government propose to restore in 1979-80 the ½ per cent—6 per cent to be precise—of GNP by which productive public capital expenditure was reduced by Fianna Fáil in the current year.

That table shows that Fianna Fáil cut productive public capital expenditure from 5.5 per cent of GNP to 4.9 per cent in 1978; and it tells us that they are going to push it back to the figure at which we left it, which was 5.5 per cent, and to keep it at that in the years ahead. Apart from that figure, which obviously has a relationship to job creation but does not suggest any additional impetus to job creation, there is not one word in this crucial chapter about employment or jobs. I challenge Deputies and the public to read the chapter and tell me if I have missed something in it that relates these financial proposals to employment. I can find nothing.

It is proposed to generate 7 per cent growth in 1979 and 1980 in the face of the massive deflation proposed and spelled out in detail in this chapter. At least I give the Government credit for being frank about their plans. This process, with no increase whatever in the proportion of national resources devoted to productive capital expenditure is nowhere alluded to here or elsewhere. There is nothing in this document that tells us by what process of investment and with what money derived from what source the new jobs are going to be created. The fact that there is any connection between investment and growth is ignored throughout this paper. Even the Minister for Finance will scarcely have the gall to tell this House that this Government's reliance on the private sector is so total that every bit of economic growth is going to come from that sector and none either from the public sector or through the public sector financing the private sector.

Funds which are included under the heading of productive public capital expenditure—such as funds for the IDA, ICC, ACC, Bord Fáilte grants, SFADCo, and Gaeltarra Éireann—are raised from the public and channelled through the public sector into private hands, and the private sector derive a very high proportion of their total investment from them. There is no provision whatever in this paper to increase this investment in the public sector or through the public sector into the private sector by one percentage point of GNP above what it was in 1977. There is nothing in this Green Paper, and therefore, nothing in these figures, to make any provision whatever for the creation of employment. Even the Minister for Finance is not going to suggest that new jobs will be created without additional investment. If he is, he will be the first Minister for Finance in history to do so and will go down in the Guinness Book of Records accordingly.

This chapter of financial implications is confined to the one issue of how Fianna Fáil propose to deflate the economy which they inflated in the current year. To be fair, they are frank enough about what they propose at least in the main outlines and in their hints about the details. You do not even have to read between the lines; in some cases you can read along the lines.

First they propose to raise the burden of taxation by one-ninth from 31 per cent of GNP to 34½ per cent. What does this mean in money terms? On their own figures for 1978 GNP, given in reply to a Dáil question, this extra taxation will amount to no less than £285 million in two years. Their estimates of GNP in 1978 and of GNP growth 7 per cent and inflation 5 per cent between 1978 and 1980, yield a GNP estimate of £8,100 million for 1980. If that figure is in any way incorrect the Minister will correct me. The extra 3½ per cent of this figure which they propose to take in the current year is £285 million, by a coincidence almost exactly the amount "given away"—very temporarily it now appears—in the manifesto. Deputy O'Leary mentioned £330 million as the manifesto figure. I recall the debates at the time of the election campaign. Our first estimates were that the manifesto would cost £360 million. Fianna Fáil eventually came up with figures below £300 million. They then did not spend the full amount, cutting, for example, the provision for youth unemployment by three-quarters from £20 million to £5 million. Going back to the Green Paper and the budget documents I reckon that the amount they have provided since they came into office and in the budget is of the order of £285 million or just under that. That is precisely the amount they propose to take back by extra taxation in the next two years.

The Green Paper is, to put it politely, misleading on the proposed level of taxation. It says in paragraph 7.6 that its proposals

... Would accord with the objective of keeping the burden of taxation below the high level of recent years....

This is false. Taxation will be .7 per cent of GNP higher in 1980 than ever before. That is on the Government's own figures, on their own assumption of growth and assuming that all their policies will be fully successful. In that the Green Paper has misled the public, which is an unusual thing for a document of this kind to do. I suggest that the restraining hands of the civil servants may not have been as heavily imposed on this document as has been traditional in this country. When we were preparing our Green Paper we naturally, like any Government, sought to put the best face on what we were putting forward. Civil servants made it very clear to us that there were certain limits to the figures that we could put down and that it would be unjustified on our part to make assumptions of growth or employment beyond a certain figure. When we found that we could not sustain the argument and that they were right, we accepted what they said. There is evidence in this Green Paper that the same self-restraint, in accordance with the best traditions of this country, has not been maintained in the preparation of this document.

These tax increases of £285 million involve taking for each of the next two years total increase in GNP, one half of the increase in GNP in 1979 and one half of the increase in GNP in 1980. The Government do not, of course, tell us where the extra taxes are to come from. Some of the money could, of course, be squeezed out of income taxpayers by the old Fianna Fáil device, used year after year in the decade to 1972, or not increasing personal allowances, and thus squeezing more from income taxpayers without formally increasing the tax rates. That old dodge has, I am afraid, been blown. It can only be used marginally, even by this Government, and most of the £285 million will have to come by actually putting up rates of taxation.

Every figure I have used up to this point, and every figure I shall use throughout my speech, is based on Fianna Fáil's own statistics. All my figures assume that GNP will grow by 7 per cent in 1979 and 1980, as well as in the current year, although no one but the Government believe, and I doubt that even they believe this target will be attained this year. The Central Bank estimate is that it will be about 5½ per cent. I will now deal with the question of the validity of the 7 per cent forecasts. All I am saying is that the figures I have given of the tax increases required are based on the Government's own assumption of 7 per cent growth and, naturally, if that growth is not achieved, the extra taxation required from a smaller GNP to yield the sums to bridge the gap and to get borrowing down to 8 per cent will be correspondingly larger.

For 1979-1980 the prospects of our economy have been set independently in a book on Irish economic policy published by the Economic and Social Research Institute consisting of papers by staff members of the institute. Let me say at this point that the institute very properly disclaim responsibility for the views expressed in these papers, which are those of individual members of the staff. In the paper by Joe Durkan, who carries responsibility for the institute's short- and medium-term forecasts, having reviewed the White Paper's industrial export projection, and having taken account of the changing relationship between these exports and GNP, exports forming a larger proportion of GNP and, therefore, of an increasingly dynamic element, taking full account of that, Durkan concludes as follows:

The situation is thus that the target increases in industrial exports coupled with the target level for Government borrowing requirements would not lead to any major difference between the target future growth experience and that of the period 1968-1973.

when, Durkan points out GNP growth averaged 4¼ per cent. This particular expert, who is in his own area, responsible for short- and medium-termed forecasting and who has an excellent record in this respect, if I may say so, which is better in a number of respects than that of the Minister for Finance, forecasts for 1979-1980 a GNP growth rate of 4¼ per cent. Now there is always some room for disagreement between economists on economic relationships, but the difference between the 4¼ per cent growth forecast by Durkan for 1979 on the basis of the White Paper policies, now spelled out in more detail in the Green Paper, and the White and Green Paper targets of 7 per cent strain credulity. The divergence is too great to be explicable in terms of legitimate differences of appreciation of detail by economists.

I should add—I have mentioned it already, but I will emphasise it again —that if the gamble fails, as this independent economic opinion suggests it may, then the tax increases will be all the greater, and their deflationary effect all the larger, thus risking setting off a cycle of recurrent inflation. These tax increases announced in the Green Paper are not, as Fianna Fáil have subtly tried to suggest, needed to create employment. They bear no relation to employment and none of the money, as I have pointed out, is being put to increasing the share of GNP we devoted to productive investment in employment. They are simply needed to pay the bills Fianna Fáil incurred in buying votes at the last election.

Deputies

: Hear, hear.

: Moreover, these tax increases are only one half of the Fianna Fáil scissors. The other "F" of the FF scissors is the proposal to make every section of the underprivileged, by cuts in benefits of one kind or another, pay for Fianna Fáil's give away to the rich, to the car owners, the house owners and the other groups on which their generosity was lavished last June, a generosity which did not include the underprivileged. Not alone will the lower paid workers and the small farmers have to pay through higher taxes— and small farmers pay taxes on everything they buy other than food and clothing which we exempted from taxation—not alone will they have to pay higher taxes, most probably on expenditure, but they are to be got at in every other conceivable way possible. All the schemes for cutting social services, which our National Coalition Government had brandished under our noses time and time again coming near a budget, and which time and time again we turned down, have been resurrected and welcomed with open arms by this most right-wing Government ever to rule this country.

Chapter 7 starts off by warning there will be no more goodies in future budgets until the next election—paragraph 7.3. It goes on to hint at spreading the burden of social assistance schemes from the Exchequer to some other source of funds. To whom? To the workers and the poor presumably. Who else? It goes on to talk about standardising the means test which, in the context of the reference made, quite clearly means tightening up on the means test. It talks about reviewing schemes for heating and for social welfare beneficiaries. All this talk is in terms of tightening up, cutting back, reducing expenditure. The temperature is to go down for social welfare beneficiaries. They are to be left in the cold by Fianna Fáil. That is the plan put forward. They talk about reviewing the operation of the school meals scheme. Presumably children will be less well fed. They talk about introducing selectivity into children's allowances and they say this will possibly be done by taxing the only source of income available to the great majority of mothers. They talk about cutting back on disability benefits for women —for women in particular. They talk about reviewing the position of the dependent spouse in the social welfare system. More cutbacks here again, affecting for the most part women, because the majority of dependent spouses are women. They talk about cutting back on access to the social insurance scheme by workers—paragraph 7.20. Workers who are at present entitled to social insurance will not be entitled to it any longer. They talk about taxing social welfare benefits— paragraph 7.21.

At this point they introduce a further departure from veracity, if this is not an unparliamentary term, and they say there will be no reduction in the volume of public expenditure. This is stated in paragraph 7.39. But, if one examines Table 73, which gives in real terms the volume of expenditure under different headings, one will see that there is in fact to be a drop in social expenditure, a drop which I calculate in real terms in 1979 at 1½ per cent. This incidentally raises a question which I raise with some regret but which, I think, has to be raised: it is the question of the relationship between the Department of Economic Planning and Development and the National Economic and Social Council. How can the National Economic and Social Council be free to criticise a proposed cutback in social expenditure when the chairman is the secretary of the Department responsible for the Green Paper? This double appointment creates an impossible situation. May I say, knowing the official in question, that there is no one more capable, if it were possible to do it, of filling the two posts well and honourably, but it is asking more than one could reasonably ask of any public servant, to be on the one hand the secretary of the Department that produces the Green Paper and, on the other hand, the chairman of the body whose job it is to criticise it which, in this instance, if it is to do its job properly has to say bluntly that the Green Paper did not tell the truth.

Deputies

: Hear, hear.

: How can the same man be responsible for drafting the paper and then sending out a report to say the Green Paper did not tell the truth? This places an impossible burden on one person and it should never have been put on anyone, even someone of his exceptional ability.

When we move from social welfare to health, the delphic obscurity of the paragraph suggests that the Minister for Health was more successful than the Minister for Education and the Minister for Social Welfare in postponing the evil day. Rising health costs, we are told, cannot be allowed to pose excessive problems in the context of our general economic and public finance policies. Ominously, for Deputy Haughey, Minister for Health, while hand on Fianna Fáil heart, there is no intention of departing from the objective in health policy expressed in the White Paper, the considerations expressed earlier in this Green Paper require that detailed study now be given to the possibility of adopting alternative measures other than those at present in use to meet some of the health objectives of the White Paper. So the Green Paper here is going to go back on the White Paper at the expense of the Minister for Health.

Later we are told that the number eligible for health benefits will be stabilised or decreased—paragraph 7.28. These are delphic utterances indeed. We on this side of the House have no difficulty in interpreting them. The knife is in, and barring an early "off" in the succession stakes and a particular outcome, it will be twisted with ill-suppressed pleasure in the months to come. What a fate for the health services that they should become the plaything of Fianna Fáil internal politics regardless of the effect on the health of the people.

As for education, it is to be the fate of Deputy Wilson to preside over the destruction of much of Donogh O'Malley's achievements. The doubling of fees for university students, paragraph 7.33, will make Donogh turn in his grave; and new charges for students at training colleges, paragraph 7.34. These are the only two cuts actually mentioned, but we all know that the Fianna Fáil Party are currently in travail over proposals to cut the school transport service which was on the agenda for a recent party meeting.

Then there is the price of food from which the National Coalition removed VAT and in the case of key necessities we subsidised. There is no mention yet in the Green Paper of restoring VAT on food and on clothing, from which we also removed it. That, no doubt, will be part of the £285 million extra taxation package to come. We are told the subsidies are to go, not "abruptly" but over a period of years. We are told there will be 3½p more on milk, 30p more on butter, 5½p more on the loaf, 4½p more on the kilo of flour, not to speak of 17p more per therm of town gas. These are not my figures but those of the Green Paper as set out in a table there. These subsidies will be removed not "abruptly" but, it is quite clear from the wording, completely.

How big in total are these cuts in spending going to be? This is calculable from the figures given in the Green Paper, although they are not directly displayed. The Green Paper figures in Table 7.1 applied to the Government's forecast of GNP allow for a £200 million increase in current spending in current money terms in 1979. But in his speech the Taoiseach told us that £150 million of this is already pre-empted by unavoidable commitments: servicing the enormous extra debt incurred, which at the now rapidly rising interest rates could cost much more than was provided for in the budget, and the carryover effect of public service pay and social welfare increases. Even if inflation raised the resulting bill of £2,518 million by only 7 per cent—I say "7 per cent" because public service pay is such a big factor that the inflation rate in Government expenditure is always more than the consumer price index—this means that the cost of existing services will be about £2,700 million in 1979 without any improvement in or extension of public services.

The Green Paper tells us there will be 4,100 extra jobs per year provided for in the public sector which are bound to involve extra costs. This figure of £2,700 million excludes those extra jobs and the extra jobs referred to in the chapter dealing with how to eliminate unemployment altogether. This £2,700 million is the minimum figure of the cost of these services in 1979 and is clearly an underestimate because it makes no provision for the 1,400 extra jobs that Government have promised to provide in that year. The Green Paper says that the sum available when calculated will be only £2,574 million. Therefore expenditure cuts must be at least £125 million in 1979 with an almost identical figure of £175 million in 1980.

The stage is thus set. The Government have announced in this Green Paper that they propose to deflate the economy by about £270 million in each of the next two years, namely, in total by twice the cost of the Fianna Fáil manifesto package. They gave us the money with one hand and took twice as much back with the other. In each year there are £345 million more in taxation and £125 million in cuts in expenditure on the social side, which added give £550 million of deflation in two years.

In a recent report the OECD assessed the short-term effects of the Government's expansionary measures in 1978 as adding 2 per cent to GNP. No matter how the Government and the Ministers play around with the figures their attempt to retrieve the damage done by their manifesto and budget will involve a total 4 per cent deflation of the economy, a 2 per cent deflation in each of the years 1979 and 1980.

How in the name of common sense could the Government imagine that after such a deflation, and having provided no higher proportion of GNP for productive capital investment in the private and public sectors in these years than we did in 1977, they are going to achieve a 7 per cent growth rate? This would imply that there would have been a neutral, undeflated growth rate of 9 per cent in these years without any stimulus by way of expansionary budgetary measures or increased investment finance. It implies that left to itself the economy would be expanding at twice the normal growth rate and the Government are cutting it back from 9 per cent to 7 per cent.

Is it any wonder that the Government cannot find a single independent economist to stand over their phoney figures? In all this there is nothing, I quote the Taoiseach, "to enhance the career prospects of a vibrant new generation of Irish people". The proposals are novel all right and they are dramatic, but I wonder if the Taoiseach had the kind of novelty and drama in mind that most Irish people will find here—drastic deflation and its consequences on employment. As for fuel to fire the imagination, to which he also referred, there is enough fuel here to fire social discontent of a high order as the ordinary workers and small farmers come to understand the price they are being asked to pay, not to put people to work—they would pay for that, but, as I have shown, that is not what the issue is about here—but to pay for the remission of the wealth tax, the road tax and the other Fianna Fáil promises.

I will spend no more time on this document. I was going to insert an adjective, but I remember my father gave an instruction to the Department of Defence that all adjectives were to be dropped from official minutes as they all represented expressions of opinion inappropriate for civil servants. Though not a civil servant I will avoid any adjective before the word "document".

We shall let it rest until the Government have finished what the Minister for Education described as the "fight" to decide where the cuts are finally to fall and where the taxes are finally to be levied. Let them get on with this fight, fight it to the finish and end the display of disunity and backbiting that has disedified our people during recent weeks as the leadership battle is fought through leaks to the papers on who is being chopped and who is fighting to the death.

Then, when the Government on present promises, if they keep them— 18 months after their election on a platform of providing "tens of thousands of secure jobs only waiting to be created"—have decided on what their policy is, and have perhaps sorted out their leadership, we shall then give our considered views on that policy, when we know what that policy is. It may well contain good things; I will not be surprised if it does. There are good things even in this Green Paper if you dig deep enough, though they are few and far between. If the Government policy contains good things we shall not hesitate to say so when they are finally revealed.

On work sharing, I know the Taoiseach's scepticism about this idea of the Minister for Economic Planning and Development but I feel it should not be dismissed. I recall what he said two months ago at the IMI meeting in Killarney. He said there were no easy solutions and because of the difficulties there was a temptation to turn to other solutions which appeared to be less arduous. For example, one suggested panacea was to share existing employment through such steps as shortening the working week, having longer holidays, curtailing overtime and earlier retirement. He said that this posed many questions. He must have been answered in a hell of a hurry in the intervening two months.

This scepticism cannot be ignored, although I should add that I will not dismiss this idea out of hand. What I must say is that, while keeping an open mind on the issue of work sharing—what is really involved is income sharing through the process of work sharing—this could work only if all groups in society were brought into the process. There is no way in which our workers will share their income when they see the rest of the community who are not in the category of being employees not being asked to share for the purpose of creating employment. When we talk about work sharing let us be clear that it means income sharing and that the burden must fall equitably throughout and not, as has been the policy of this Government to date, with the whole burden falling on the poor and underprivileged and with all the benefits going to the wealthy.

The Green Paper shows no awareness of the need for equitable distribution of the burden and I am afraid that the idea of work sharing which I think has potential merit, although it brings great difficulties with it, is bound to fail unless this need is recognised. We share the same aim as the Government although we differ on the means. We can ignore the Taoiseach's uncharacteristically arrogant statement that Fianna Fáil are the channel through which the aspirations of the ordinary men and women of Ireland take solid shape.

There are other aspects of the Taoiseach's speech on which I should comment briefly. First, there is his deeply disturbing figure for the rise in the value of industrial exports—just more than 20 per cent in the first four months. During our period in office the rate of growth of value of manufactures was well more than 50 per cent in the first half of last year. That rate was sustained up to September, a month after our departure from office. Even allowing for some dampening of inflation since then, it is clear that under Fianna Fáil the manufactures export growth which perhaps was about 30 per cent in volume in the first half of last year, allowing for an inflation rate of just less than 20 per cent, has now been reduced to a tiny fraction of this figure. Although the inflation rate has been reduced it is still significant. Therefore, there has been a sharp falling off in manufactures export growth. This is a danger sign and it was unwise of the Taoiseach to give this figure as if it were a great bonus or benefit achieved when in fact it is a very serious danger sign. It is a reduction from a value rate of increase of more than 50 per cent to merely 20 per cent.

Secondly, there is the Taoiseach's figure for emigration. While accepting his caution that past censuses have shown that actual net emigration has tended to be only two-thirds of the net outbound passenger movement by sea and air, we still find an estimated 9,000 net emigration figure for the 12 months ended January and we are told that the net outbound sea and air figure was 13,000. By some coincidence this 9,000 figure is just the amount by which unemployment has fallen so that it seems that whatever jobs may have been created since Fianna Fáil came to office, there has been no apparent effect on unemployment. This suggests that the jobs may be fewer than the Government try to suggest. Certainly, they are no more than are needed to keep up with the growth in the labour force.

Thirdly, I wish to comment on the Taoiseach's reference to the £100 million job-creation programme. Has the Taoiseach forgotten that in the budget £15 million was knocked off that by cutting to £5 million the £20 million youth employment programme with the result that there has been virtually no improvement in the area of youth employment? We have had such excuses as there being more obstacles than were expected, that everything is slower than had been anticipated, but the fact remains that 5,000 jobs were to have been provided within one year in office for young people by way of special employment projects. Where are these jobs? They have not arrived yet.

The employment action team put forward four proposals. There was the community fitness programme which was supposed to yield 800 part-time jobs. That passed to the Minister for Health but has disappeared since. Under the environmental improvement scheme, £4 million was allocated to provide 1,000 jobs of a temporary nature. Where are these jobs? There is also the work experience programme but that is not to begin until July. The proposals for it are only being worked out now by the National Manpower Service. This is a year after the Government assumed office. There was the apprentice recruitment scheme to be operated by local authorities but at the end of April only five people had been recruited under this scheme. For the Ballyfermot survey there was an allocation of £10,000 but the number employed was 33 for a period of one month at an approximate cost of £7,500. Therefore, the youth employment schemes simply have not happened and they were a major priority of the Government. What they represent is a major failure by the Government because this is the area where unemployment pinches most and where hopes were raised most by the Government. It is the area in which failure to deliver will cause most unrest, most distress and which perhaps will be remembered longest in terms of the Government's failures.

The fourth point of the Taoiseach's speech to which I wish to refer, and again this has not received any comment of which I am aware although it is a matter of major importance to the country, is his reference to—and I quote—"Indications of a rise in the volume of consumer goods coming into this country, an accentuation of which could aggravate our balance of payments to the point where corrective measures would be necessary. These could affect prospects for employment". This is a very serious warning. It led me to look at the figures. We are a far distance from Fianna Fáil's proposal to create 10,000 new jobs by switching 3p in the £ of spending to Irish products during a period of three years.

Since Fianna Fáil came to power we have been moving at breakneck speed in the opposite direction. The figures should be told and told bluntly. Between August and February last—the latest period for which retail spending figures are available— retail spending increased by 19 per cent while imports of consumer goods increased by 39 per cent or twice as fast. While we have no retail sales figures later than February we know that the import trend has continued because for the nine months from August to May there was an increase of 38 per cent. Therefore, imports of consumer goods are increasing twice as fast as consumer spending and given that in 1977 21p in the £ of all personal consumption consisted of imports of consumer goods ready for sale as distinct from products coming into the country for manufacture here, this means that the figure of 21p in the £ has been increased to about 24p in the £. So much for the 3p in the £ that Fianna Fáil referred to in the manifesto. It is a loss to imports and not a replacement of imports and it has occurred in six to nine months rather than in three years.

I endorse the Taoiseach's warning note that this is a most dangerous trend. If the 3p in the £ of imports to be replaced was to yield 10,000 extra jobs as the Fianna Fáil manifesto stated rather simplistically, the first 12 months of Fianna Fáil rule have seen 10,000 jobs put in jeopardy by increased imports which the Government have done nothing to offset. Where is the great campaign for buying Irish or selling Irish? Why have we not seen signs of it yet? So much damage has been done already by the failure to take the action necessary that the job to be done now is a great deal larger than it was when the Government came to office.

The other point I wish to make is the one to which the Taoiseach did not refer although it is very important. I refer to the fact that since the beginning of this year, under Fianna Fáil, this country's external reserves which almost trebled during the period from 1973 to 1977 to £1,200 million, have fallen by £150 million in four months. This represents an annual rate of decline of more than £450 million. This is highly sinister and taken in conjunction with Central Bank data whose analysis suggests a significant outflow of capital from the country as the implications of Fianna Fáil policy for the few years ahead sink in to more sophisticated financiers, augurs ill for the period ahead. It is a curious paradox that the autonomous net capital inflow considerably more than doubled in 1974 compared with 1973 with the announcement of the wealth tax at the beginning of 1974. Contrary to the figures the Minister has given, all of which relate to the period after 1974, the outflow, if it occurred, would have taken place when the wealth tax was announced. The people concerned were hardly going to wait until the tax was introduced and when they would be caught but so far as there was any outflow it must have occurred in 1974. In fact, though, there was an inflow. The reason for this is simple. In a brochure prepared by a Liverpool stockbroker he advised his clients that after the introduction of the wealth tax in Ireland, the new conditions of the abolition of estate duty and the substitution of wealth tax were so favourable that the flow of capital to this country in 1974 was on such a scale that the British Government before the end of 1974 would be bound to impose restrictions on the outflow of capital to Ireland. They did not do so, so that the warning turned out to be unfounded but that was how English financiers saw the effect of wealth tax.

Now Fianna Fáil have abolished wealth tax but the money is flowing out of the country. Why? Because, while there are short-sighted people who are willing to cash in on the immediate benefits of Fianna Fáil policy this year, anybody who has any economic knowledge or insight, anybody in the financial world and the more sophisticated people in the industrial world, know what lies ahead in 1979 and 1980 and are taking appropriate steps at this stage. These are all worrying signs not to be glossed over —a sharp fall off in the growth of manufactured exports, the sudden and now very rapid replacement of Irish goods by imports instead of vice versa as promised, the fall in the reserves, the outflow of capital and, above all, the outflow of people, the new tide of emigration which is the real explanation for the 9,000 drop in unemployment.

I believe the other evening on television the Minister for Economic Planning and Development asked Opposition spokesmen what we would do in these circumstances. We are flattered to be asked, even if only rhetorically, for advice. There is only one possible answer. That is the answer the man gave when asked for directions in the Irish countryside— you should not be starting from here. We would not have the economy in the position it is in because we would not —and we made it plain in our election manifesto that we would not—risk the future of employment for our people by buying votes at the cost of £300 million which would then have to be recovered by deflationary measures which would leave the country in a far worse position than it was to start with. We believe in continuous and accelerated progress and we were achieving it, leaving behind us to Fianna Fáil, God help us, a 5 to 6 per cent growth rate, inflation falling to 6 per cent and unemployment declining—though not, I will admit, as fast as we would have wished. We rejected the idea of a mad rush linked to the election, followed by precipitate withdrawal from a worse position than we started from, which has been Fianna Fáil's recipe. That choice was open to us. It was a possibility before us in Government when we considered what we should do in the budget of 1977. We decided against it. We have suffered the political consequences. We are willing to take those consequences, but those who chose the opposite path must then take the consequences of that path as those consequences emerge in 1979 and 1980.

Having said that I should like to say that we wish the Government luck and lots of it. As an Irishman I hope they succeed even though my party would then find it more difficult to come to power. But if Fianna Fáil fail the damage will be not only to them; this failure will spread cynicism about politics and politicians. While it may be healthy that in future people should be more wary of promises of goodies now combined with jobs later, it would not be healthy that the credibility of our political system be put in jeopardy by irresponsible politics. We do not seek to climb to power on the back of Fianna Fáil's failure, nor do we have any desire once again to come into office to clear up the economic mess left behind them. We shall seek power on our own merits, our own plans, programmes and ideals—not on the basis of Fianna Fáil failure.

In the meantime the Government should get on with it. Most of the projects in the manifesto have never been heard of since. I was glancing through it in the period immediately before this debate and made a most incomplete list of things which I had not heard of since. Perhaps I missed one or two; perhaps there are one or two that are happening and escaped my attention. There is a Buy Irish campaign—that certainly escaped my attention and I have told the House what are the consequences; the restructuring of the Prices Commission the investigation of middlemen's margins, for example, in fish and vegetables; the alignment of prices with Northern Ireland, steps to be taken to bring them into line; the State-owned smelter which was to yield and quote: "tens of thousands of secure jobs only waiting to be created"; all the various agricultural boards, too numerous to be listed; the Land Development Authority; the new body to co-ordinate agricultural export agencies; the domestic agricultural marketing council to set standards; the 50-mile limit; a central fish marketing agency; a scheme to lead to the abolition of ground rents—we all know where that ran into the ground. There was a major road development plan; a children's service authority, an energy authority; a transport authority; legal aid in civil cases, first of all, on family law—what happened to that and where is it? Eventually this Government will be dragged, kicking and screaming, to the point of introducing it because otherwise they will end up in the dock and possibly expelled from the Council of Europe for failing to carry out their obligations. It is only when it is brought to that point, as far as I can ascertain, that they will introduce a scheme.

: Surely the Deputy knows there is no basis——

: Then there was the amendment of the 1908 Children's Act —page 37 of the manifesto. I will pass over the promises of improvements in Posts and Telegraphs staff relations because these do not require further development and comment. There was to be a pupils' transfer committee and endless other bodies. Where have they all gone? Like the snows of winter they have all melted, but it was in summer that they were announced. Ministers have been doing little or nothing. The House knows how little legislation has come before it. If the Government would get on with the job of creating employment, stop talking about it, stop fighting about it, stop publishing papers about it, we would back action. The country will not forgive a Government with 84 seats because so many of their Minsters are lazy or incompetent, or spending so much of their time nursing their constituencies that they do not do the job they were put in to do.

Before concluding—with a distinct change of tone—I want to refer to Northern Ireland. I want to welcome the Taoiseach's remarks about Deputy Frank Cluskey and myself. I should like to say for my part that during my visit to the United States and the contacts I had there I was impressed by the amount of genuine interest there was in the United States and willingness to work for a solution of the Northern Ireland problem. I think a transformation has come about in the situation in that country in so far as the Northern Ireland problem is concerned. I think that the efforts put in by our Government, culminating in the visit of the then Taoiseach, Deputy Liam Cosgrave, on the occasion of the Bicentennial, the extraordinary efforts of the Deputy Leader of the SDLP, and the backing of the present Government—strongly given in words we fully endorse, words the Taoiseach used both in writing to Mr. Biaggi and the United States—that these things together created in the United States a new situation in which there is a strong body of opinion in Congress and the administration genuinely concerned about this problem and anxious to help towards its solution. The time could come when we could be very grateful for that constructive interest, so different from the kind of interest we have had from a narrow group of Irish-Americans in earlier years.

All of us share a common concern for the future of our country. The differences between us and Northern Ireland are now, as Deputy Cluskey said, only differences of emphasis on the recognition that the Sunningdale commitment by the British to support unity achieved by consent is an indication of support for a united Ireland from the British. This the Government seem to be ignoring for tactical political reasons, which I can understand if it helps them in some of their particular difficulties. But the differences between us come down to the interpretation of the adequacy of that statement at Sunningdale. I am glad that the movement on the part of the Government on the position taken up in 1975 has brought the three parties in this House closer together on an issue which will not be resolved if we differ or in any way allow ourselves to be divided significantly.

May I add that I share the Taoiseach's feelings about the attacks on us concerning extradition, which at this point, allowing for even the barest minimum of political intelligence on the part of those concerned, can only be mala fide. The Taoiseach's statement on this subject some time ago was excellent. Nobody having read it is entitled to continue to nag at this particular subject. However, we must be wary of avoiding our own responsibilities by placing all the blame on British inactivity. There is no doubt that the main problem lies there, especially because of the “hung” parliament, the dependence of both parties in that parliament on Loyalist support, or the possibility of Loyalist support, in this or the next parliament.

But the failure of the British Government to take adequate initiatives at an adequate level, with sufficient energy, sufficient seriousness, cannot excuse inaction by us—and here I join Deputy M. O'Leary. A response is needed on our part to the appeal of men of goodwill in the North to clarify what we mean by Irish unity. We have never done that in 55 years, and it is to our shame that we have not done so. We should not expect whatever efforts we make in this respect to have a dramatic effect. Nor must we allow these efforts to distract attention from the primary and urgent need for a skilful British initiative on internal devolution, with participation in responsibility in Northern Ireland. But a duty does lie with us. Every Deputy should read the current issue of Studies, a quarterly published by the Jesuit Order, in which there is an article on pluralism. It is a publication which should stir the conscience, the interest and concern of every Deputy. There is food for thought for all of us in this publication.

We should take initiatives. I know that a recent poll showed a confused and disturbed public mood here; it showed an unwillingness to make financial sacrifices for the North, an unwillingness to make changes to make the thought of union with us more acceptable to the majority in Northern Ireland. Our job as political leaders is to transcend this and build on the recognition that for the vast majority of our people union can only be got by consent, that the North must decide its own fate, and to do this by offering to northerners of both sections of the community, a vision of a different Ireland. That will require from all parties qualities of leadership which will show that the situation here and in Northern Ireland could be transformed, not quickly but over a measurable period.

Let us not, in placing the blame for the present stagnation where it primarily lies, on Britain, forget our responsibility. Let us not forget the parable of the mote and the beam. We have responsibilities and future generations will not forgive us if the violence continues or gets worse and the problem is not resolved, because we were unwilling to make the imaginative effort to show the kind of country we wish to create, to show the generosity with which we approach our fellow Irishmen in Northern Ireland. That is the challenge which is before us. The willingness is there on our part and on the part of the Labour Party, as was said by Deputy O'Leary. There are many people in the benches opposite who wish to move in a similar direction and we should give thought as to how we can together take the steps that need to be taken here to create the conditions that would open up the minds and the hearts of those in Northern Ireland who hitherto were unwilling to contemplate working with us, who were blinded by past history and mythology and were unable to see the benefits to them of working with us externally and domestically in the interests of all the people of this island.

Deputies

: Hear, hear.

: I regret that Deputy FitzGerald finds his voice afflicted in the way it has been, and I am sure that speaking for the last hour has not helped, but I wish him a speedy recovery.

: I thank the Minister.

: I can be as understanding as most people, and I know that when an Opposition who were ignominiously thrown out of office because of their multiple failure on so many fronts to deal with the problems facing the people, are faced with an Adjournment Debate on the performance of the Government over the past year in conjunction with a discussion on the Green Paper recently produced, one must, in all reasonableness, allow for the fact that they are facing a difficult task, especially when the past year has seen not alone the implementation of various promises made by the Government but also when one sees the indicators one after another showing that on target we are achieving what we set out to achieve for this year. Given all that, the Opposition are in a very difficult situation, but even allowing for all that, I found many of the speeches, particularly that of Deputy FitzGerald, a grave disappointment. The fact that his speech contained a number of misstatements of fact was bad enough, but the worst feature of it was what he did not say, and this was the most distinguishing mark of the contributions from the Fine Gael and Labour benches to this debate. Not one speaker, except Deputy Barry Desmond, put forward any suggestion as to how the troubles facing us ought to be tackled. Deputy Barry Desmond put forward a number of suggestions all of which except one, the ritual national development corporation, are in the Green Paper.

I cannot hope to deal with all of the mis-statements of fact but there are a few basic ones that I ought to deal with. Deputy O'Leary, winding up for the Labour Party, laid great stress on, and the same point was relied upon to a considerable extent by Deputy FitzGerald in his criticism of the Government's proposals, the allegation that because of the reduction in public spending outlined in the Green Paper, in the election manifesto and before that in the Fianna Fáil economic policy statement in the autumn of 1976, there will be a substantial deflation in the economy in 1979 and 1980. Nowhere is any allowance made for the fact that the private sector will do anything. It is assumed that the private sector will be stagnant, including particularly the private sector activity induced by the IDA. Apparently, none of that will operate. One of the basic criticisms levelled from the other side of the House at the Government's proposals is apparently based on that assumption.

The percentages given for alleged deflation are all based on the assumption that there will be no increase in activity in the private sector. As has been clear all along, we do not go on that assumption. I merely point out that the basic assumptions made in the criticisms by the Fine Gael and Labour Parties are mistaken. Another fairly basic criticism that Deputy FitzGerald made seems to bear a great resemblance to a point made by Deputy Peter Barry previously, where he said that there was an inconsistency between the White Paper's reference to the desirability and the feasibility of limiting taxation so that the tax burden will be less in 1980 than in 1977, and the Green Paper which states that taxation as an estimated percentage of GNP will increase from 31 per cent in 1978 to 34½ per cent in 1980. The White Paper and the Green Paper are totally consistent on the likely evolution of taxation policy. In the White Paper this policy was expressed in terms of taxation, measured in national income accounts terms, as a percentage of national income. In the Green Paper the same taxation burdens are expressed but the relationship is between budgetary revenue and GNP. The main difference between budgetary revenue and taxation on a national account basis is that budgetary revenue includes Post Office charges and other non-tax revenues, whereas the other definition does not. Secondly, budgetary revenue excludes rates and social insurance contributions whereas the other definition includes both. If this is taken into account some of the basic arguments being made will be found to be unfounded. I would also remind Deputy FitzGerald that the various people appointed to the Garda and the new teachers, nurses and so on appointed were not all old or middle aged. I also note that they omitted to make any reference to the youth employment scheme operated by the Department of Education which has been so successful that we have allocated another £500,000 to it. Deputy FitzGerald omitted to mention when he quoted the increase in the reserves while he was in office, that the great bulk of that increase was due to the foreign borrowing by his Government which, of course, was recorded as increased reserves. He may have noted that this Government have not engaged in foreign borrowing other than a Yen loan, which had been negotiated by the previous Government, some EIB Loans, which are in a special category and some recycling of foreign borrowing, which I will refer to later if I get an opportunity. That does not represent any new foreign borrowing and, of course, does not affect the reserves.

We again had the ritual National Development Corporation theme from Deputy O'Leary and others. As far as the Government are concerned we are prepared to consider any approach to the tackling of unemployment, but would people stop trotting out the National Development Corporation, if that is all they can say about it? Would they tell us what they propose in regard to it? How many jobs do they suggest will be created by it? How will they be created? In what sectors, over what periods and at what cost? If we could get proposals in regard to the National Development Corporation which would give those kind of details then everybody could evaluate them. The debate has got beyond the point where a ritual declaration of the value of the National Development Corporation is sufficient.

I know that Deputy O'Leary was surprised at something I said on the radio last Sunday, when I asked people to declare themselves as being for or against full employment. I think he felt that I was really asking people to declare themselves for or against sin. I can understand that reaction. The reason I put that question was that I overheard a Deputy from the Fine Gael benches in this House within the past ten days—I think it was Deputy Keating but I do not want to be tied to that because I was listening on the monitor and I cannot be absolutely certain—putting questions to the Taoiseach, the burden of which was that Fianna Fáil's preoccupation with job creation and full employment was an excuse for their expected failure in other areas and that this was a political gimmick by Fianna Fáil. That is what the man was saying and this is why I put the question.

: If the Minister is not sure that it was Deputy Keating how does he know that it was a Fine Gael Deputy?

: Would Deputy Harte on his behalf care to deny it?

: The Minister said that he thought it was Deputy Keating but is he sure that it was a Fine Gael Deputy?

: I can assure the Deputy that it was not a Deputy on the Fianna Fáil side of the House.

: This debate was characterised by a lack of interruption.

: This side of the House has no doubt that the first and major priority, from an economic and social point of view, is the creation of jobs. I was asking anybody who had doubts about it to say so so that we would know what their priorities were. It may be legitimate for some people to argue that other priorities are more important. All I am saying is that, as far as we are concerned, other priorities are very important but they are not more important than that. I cannot understand, when listening to the various people I have heard and, in particular, to the people winding up, Deputy O'Leary for Labour and Deputy FitzGerald for Fine Gael, how it happens that they are not even prepared to comment on the most radical proposals in the Green Paper.

Deputy O'Leary repeatedly referred to chapter 6; he spoke about work sharing and said there was nothing new in this, that it had been talked about in the EEC for some years, which is true. Deputy FitzGerald spoke about work sharing. The Deputies did not comment, even from the point of view of attacking or dismissing, on the other proposals in the chapter, the ones which are designed to get people to think and say: "Do we agree we can get rid of unemployment?" We must remember that the projections in the White Paper, which are a filling in of the manifesto, fully achieved will not get rid of unemployment. That point is brought out very clearly in the Green Paper. The question is then posed: "Do we want to get full employment? If we do how do we go about it?" The chapter sets out various options.

One set of options has nothing to do with work sharing or income sharing and the silence in regard to that has been deafening. I believe the Taoiseach did not misread the situation when he said that the Opposition were stunned by the proposals. They were so stunned by them that they have not been prepared even to mention them or to comment on them. What is wrong? I do not know what kind of spectacles Deputy O'Leary was mentally wearing when he was looking at chapter 6 and could only see work sharing. I am not just picking him out. Deputy FitzGerald was the same and, to my knowledge, any of the other speakers from the other side were the same. They studiously avoided any reference whatever to the most radical proposals in the Green Paper, probably some of the most radical proposals ever put forward by a Government, in this country certainly. There was no comment. I consider this is a measure of the state of the Opposition parties when that happens.

I was rather disturbed to note that Deputy FitzGerald, fairly recently in a television interview, on being asked for his view in relation to the operation of the Devlin recommended scales concerning the chief executives of State-sponsored bodies, dismissed it and said it was a ridiculous approach or words to that effect. I do not purport to quote him exactly but that was the effect of what he said. Some of his colleagues have taken the same line. I was disturbed to note this because Deputy FitzGerald and his colleagues in the former Government made the decision on 28 June 1974 that they would accept the review body rates for chief executives of State-sponsored bodies subject to (1) sitting tenants keeping their existing rates if they were higher and getting standard national agreement increases but no more, (2) new appointees going on to the review body range and (3) boards continuing to have responsibility for fixing the chief executive rate within the review body range. If that decision was right —I believe it was—then it really is not good enough to have Deputy FitzGerald now come out publicly and try to repudiate this, or for his colleagues to do it, unless he is prepared to say: "We made that decision and we were wrong." We can then argue about it.

: I am prepared to say that that decision was wrong.

: It was wrong but the Deputy did not say it. He pretended that this was a decision made by this Government and that it was a ridiculous decision.

: That was not the case.

: That is what came through and the Deputy surely will not pretend that he tried to convey anything else.

: It is not the case. However, as the Minister has raised the matter, I say immediately that it was a mistake on our part to make that decision.

: I am saying the Deputy did not say that when he conveyed that publicly. It is a pity he did not, because then we could have argued about the merits or demerits of it.

(Interruptions.)

: The debate will go on without interruption.

: That is not an interruption. It is an honorable admission.

: That is one way of looking at it. When we were in opposition we contended that as a nation we could not afford ourselves the luxury of waiting around in the hope that a revival in the world economy would materialise and help us to solve our most pressing problems, and on assuming office we acted on our conviction and we introduced a wide range of measures to get the country moving again. The steps we took have been criticised but to my mind such criticism is ill-judged. The key question to be asked about any policy is whether it reaches its aims at sustainable cost. Our policies, I suggest, pass that test because of the success attending them and also in regard to the cost. It is precisely what was projected, precisely what we told the people it would be.

If we look first at 1977 we find that the economy achieved a growth rate of over 5 per cent, the highest in the EEC. The rate of inflation was brought down to less than 11 per cent in the year to mid-November, compared with 21½ per cent recorded in the year ended mid-November 1976. Manufacturing employment rose by 5,400, 3 per cent, in contrast to little or no change in 1976. By the end of the year the number on the live register had fallen by more than 4,000 compared with December 1976, although I should add in parenthesis that when we assumed office in the middle of 1977 the seasonally-adjusted figure on the live register was getting close to the highest it had reached at the height of the recession. It must not be forgotten, when we are listing these various advances, that they were secured at a time when the international environment was anything but propitious. For instance, the combined output of all EEC countries expanded by only slightly more than 2 per cent that year. Another significant thing was that even with our very high rate of growth our balance of payments position improved.

The Opposition are of course entitled to some of the credit for what happened in 1977 although I should say a great deal of what happened was as a result of their belated conversion when they brought in the budget of 1977 and eventually, almost at the end of their term of office, paid some attention to what we had been telling them. A good deal of the improvement that took place due to internal factors was due to that. They are certainly not entitled to claim credit for what is happening this year. Despite the fact that the international outlook is worse for this year the portents are that as a result of our policies the economy is set fair for an even better year in 1978. Taken together, all the indicators that are available so far this year point to a strengthening of the better trends of 1977. Manufacturing output is expanding rapidly as is activity in the building industry. I think it can be said that there is a bumper year in prospect for investment. The annual rate of inflation will be lower than ever it was in the past decade. Our target for employment creation is certainly within reach and very significantly, the barrier of 100,000 on the live register has been breached.

I do not think we could find a more striking endorsement of the policies that we have followed since we assumed office last year and I suggest that the success attending our efforts is a very good pointer to the likely success of our policies in 1979 and 1980 as outlined in the Green Paper because it is a logical extension of what we have done to date.

The impact of the external world is a matter of considerable importance and it is a matter on which I have always contended one can find one of the basic differences between Fianna Fáil and the Fine Gael/Labour Coalition because the attitude of our predecessors was summed up by the former Minister for Finance when he said that our economy was like a cork bobbing on the ocean and that we had as little control over our economic destiny as a cork had over the direction it would take in the ocean. That is what the man said and that is how they acted. It is interesting that if you look at the international trends they improved very substantially during 1976. In fact, in the first half of 1976 imports of OECD countries were increasing at an annual rate of 18 per cent. That growth continued but into 1977 it began to peter out and we find that in the second half of 1977 there was not just a slow down in the rate of increase but an actual fall in the volume of OECD imports. Yet, in the second half of 1977, the rate of growth in our industrial exports accelerated.

That is after we came into office and that is when our economy took off because we did not adopt the fatalistic attitude that our economy was like a cork on the ocean. We got cracking, we got our economy moving. I do not think there is any doubt that our experience shows that we can achieve appreciable export growth even when the growth of foreign demand is sluggish. I know that there are time lags caused by the ebb and flow of trade and that they can distort matters and perhaps make it difficult to discern the underlying trend. Nevertheless the export achievement in 1977, particularly in the second half of 1977, was so striking that no possible distorting factor can negate the message that although international trends are of tremendous importance to us they are far from being the only determinant of our economic performance. A great deal can be done by us and any Irish Government worth their salt will do what they can do and will not simply throw up their hands in horror and say, as our predecessors did: "We cannot control the international situation."

Our election manifesto, the White Paper and the Green Paper, all include the same figures on the intended level of borrowing as a percentage of GNP. I should like to comment on these figures as there have been some remarks on them in the debate and indeed in comments outside. The borrowing requirement targets are set down, together with those for the reduction in unemployment, the growth rate and the reduction in the rate of inflation. Unemployment, growth and inflation are easily comprehensible targets which in one way or another directly affect the lives of all of us. A borowing requirement target is, however, different. I suppose the man in the street cannot see directly how a borrowing requirement target affects him. It is not a feature of the real economy and he could be forgiven for thinking that it is simply some kind of obscure item in the world of public finance.

To some extent he would be right in seeing the borrowing requirement target as being different from the other three. Setting out a borrowing requirement target in an economic plan is certainly new in Ireland. For instance, such a target did not feature in the second or third economic programmes introduced by Fianna Fáil. It certainly did not figure in the Green Paper: Economic and Social Development 1976-1980 which was produced by the Coalition. That Green Paper drew attention to the size of the public sector deficit which would result in 1980 from a continuation, broadly speaking, of the policies then in force and said that they would become a phenomenal 21 per cent of GNP but there was no way that the Coalition were going to set a target for borrowing as a percentage of GNP. We did so. I think we were correct in doing so.

A number of useful things flow from setting a target borrowing requirement. It is useful as a bench mark but it is not the only bench mark. A budget must be designed to meet the needs of the economy, which is a complex task. It cannot be sidestepped by the mechanical adherence to any one number. One has to begin somewhere and a target borrowing requirement is as good a point around which to sketch the general outline of a budget as any other.

Earlier, I mentioned that I would be engaging in refinancing the national debt and perhaps I should give the House some details. In the context of national debt management, my Department have made arrangements to take advantage of the favourable terms at present available to first-class borrowers on the Euro markets. We have made arrangements for two new credit facilities totalling 325 million dollars which will be used to prepay four existing dollar facilities. The existing facilities carry a fixed margin of 1½ per cent over the London inter-bank rate of dollars and are due for repayment before 1981. The new facilities will carry a fixed margin of only ¾ per cent. Repayments will commence in 1982 and conclude in 1988. These arrangements will save the Exchequer some 2 million dollars in interest over the life of the original loans as well as lengthening the Government's foreign debt maturities, thus easing the burden of loan repayments in the years immediately ahead.

My Department have recently given notice of intention to prepay in August next a 150 million Swiss Franc loan, which is about £45 million, as well as two Deutschmark loans totalling 150 million, which is about £40 million. Negotiations are at present in train regarding the new facilities for refinancing these loans at lower interest rates and on longer terms of maturity.

Deputy Barry said—and this theme was echoed by other speakers—that the Government had failed to act. He did note, correctly, that the Green Paper is a document for discussion. He went on to say that it was indicative of the approach of the Government to the economy in the past 12 months. The implication was that we have done nothing but discuss the economy since we took office. This is far from the truth. A minute later Deputy Barry himself admitted that it was not the case when he said that the 1978 budget helped in that it increased the amount of money available to consumers with a consequential beneficial effect on the economy. Indeed it did and it was intended to do so. That budget was framed directly on the lines set out in our election manifesto. Over the past 12 months the Government have taken the economic action which was set out in the manifesto.

I do not want to repeat the various details that were outlined in the manifesto, and were more detailed in the budget, regarding job creation measures, the form of the budget, the taxation changes I announced, the abolition of rates, road tax and so on, as these measures are well known. They reflect action not discussion and the economy shows this. The fall in unemployment, the inflation rate and the increase in the growth rate were not achieved by discussion. The Green Paper is primarily concerned with 1979 and 1980. There is still time to discuss with the social partners what should be done in those years, but discussion about the future does not rule out action at present and it has not done so.

The Fine Gael and Labour approach to the problems posed by technology should be carefully noted. They have abandoned any hope of creating full employment and they are beginning to talk despairingly of a leisured society. Their answer to the great challenge of our time is to tell the people that they must accept unemployment. I would ask them to go a stage further and tell the people precisely who has to accept a future on the dole, what categories of persons are destined to live out their lives on social benefit. Let them go to the employment exchange and say, "Prepare yourself for a life of leisure. You are never going to have a job." Let them go to the schools and colleges and say, "There are not going to be any jobs for a great many of you." Will they ask them to draw lots for the privilege of working? That is really what the despairing ideas we have been hearing boil down to. Anyone who understands human nature knows that such a society would quickly erupt. In the Green Paper we are holding out a better prospect to our young people. We are telling them that it is possible to create a society in which every man and woman will have an opportunity of making a contribution. The Green Paper suggests some of the changes in attitude and in practice that will be necessary to achieve that goal. It cannot be achieved without making a number of changes, some of which may be difficult.

I thought it strange to hear a young man like Deputy Enda Kenny talking about unemployment going on until the end of the century. The message from Fine Gael and Labour is that we should not change anything but should accept as a fact of life that hundreds of thousands of our people will have no prospect of leading a normal, fulfilling life in their own country. Apparently that is what Fine Gael and Labour stand for to-day.

I want to refer to a specious argument which is being put forward by the Opposition, not least by Deputy FitzGerald. I know there are psychological reasons for it. It mentally absolves them from responsibility for what happened at the last election. They say that we promised a list of goodies and went on a spending spree when we got into office in order to honour our election promises, that that is how we won the election. That kind of argument might be plausible to people who never heard of the Fianna Fáil election manifesto but the election manifesto is one of the most widely publicised and discussed political documents in our recent history. The people know what is in the election manifesto.

: The Minister is joking.

: During the election campaign we said that the economy needed a massive shot in the arm to restore confidence and to restore its centre. The cuts in income tax, the biggest cuts in the history of the State, and the abolition of car tax and rates were all part of a package designed to revive the economy. Every voter knew that. Because they appreciated what we were trying to achieve they supported us. Looking at the transformation which has taken place in the last 12 months, it is clear that our strategy was the right one.

It is worth stressing at this stage that if one looks at page 9 of the manifesto one will see it made quite clear that the heavy borrowing of 1978 would be a once-off operation and that borrowing in 1979 and in 1980 would be substantially reduced. We said this as far back as the autumn of 1976. I wonder do Deputies remember the time when we said there were three major problems facing the country—unemployment, inflation and the appalling state of the Government's finances. We said that even we could not tackle the three of them together, that we would have to start with unemployment and inflation and then deal with the Government's finances. If one looks at the bottom of page 8 of the manifesto one will see that that is set out there again. Do not come in here pretending that nobody knew what Fianna Fáil were going to do. We are following precisely what we said we would do. Whether the Opposition like it or not, it does not provide an excuse for their loss of the last election. On some other occasion, if the Deputies wish, I will gladly contribute my view as to why they lost the election. I do not think I should waste time on that subject at the moment.

I would suggest to those opposite who have been accusing Fianna Fáil of indulging in a spending spree that they should examine their own consciences. During their period of office the Coalition Government in four years managed to treble the national debt. When we left office in 1973 the national debt stood at £1,421 million; at the end of last year, the national debt stood at £4,210 million. If you think about it that escalation of debt is a horrific figure because there is so little to show for it. These thousands of millions were frittered away over four years by a panic-stricken Government which did not know how to cope with the recession. They abandoned any attempt at a national plan; they jettisoned everything in an attempt to stay afloat politically. We will not accept any strictures about spending from the billionaire borrowers who are now in their rightful place on the opposite benches. Fine Gael and their Labour satellites left us three areas of growth, growing inflation, growing unemployment and growing debt. In view of the massive amount of borrowing, more than £2,500 million, their performance was astounding. It took a miracle of ineptitude to borrow so much and achieve so little.

My overall theme borne out by experience is that what we ourselves do is at least as important as, if not more important than, what happens in the international economy at large. This is the central theme of the Green Paper. There are many steps we can take here in Ireland to improve our economic and social position. Not all of those steps are attractive or easy and this Government never pretended that they would be. But they are there and the key question, which is not technical or answerable only by economists, is whether we as a community are prepared to take those steps. That is what the discussions with the social partners which we will embark on in the coming weeks will be about, not on the details of growth rates, important though they are, but on the key question of whether a willingness exists to take radical steps to deal with what we all agree are major problems.

Economic analysis is valuable and constructive comment on the economic content of the Green Paper is welcomed by the Government. But the Green Paper is not all about economics, at least in the narrower sense of the term. Economists as a profession would, I am sure, agree that economics is not yet an exact science able to pin down and quantify everything that goes to make up a nation's economic performance. I do not think there is any economist's measure of the strength of a nation's will although cohesive national determination is undoubtedly a powerful economic force.

The Green Paper was issued by the Government partly to test that will. Economists, I believe, would also agree that there is an area where there is very great room for legitimate differences of opinion; but while the area of such differences among economists can be revealing and constructive it can also generate doubt and uncertainty, more so perhaps among lay men than among economists themselves. This is where we should exercise caution in relation to the debate on the Green Paper, which the Government hope will be lively and nationwide, because we could all become obsessed with numbers. We could all turn into amateur economists each with his own set of numbers. We could all generate much confusion and much heat. We could all forget that we are dodging the main question which is: do we really want to bring about full employment, not in the distant future but when children who are now at school begin to look for jobs? If the debate concentrates on the issue instead of being sidetracked into a morass of figures, where even professionals advisedly tread warily, it could be very useful.

The Government have put forward options in the Green Paper because we have not closed minds. We know we have serious problems. We have our ideas on how these could be resolved and we are putting these into effect with, I suggest, obvious success. But we do not think we possess a monopoly of ideas and we hope that the national debate which the Green Paper has sparked off will throw up many useful and practical ideas. Anybody with a good idea will find that we will listen and, if we are convinced, we will act. This, I hope, will be the outcome of the discussions we plan to have on the Green Paper—sensible, workable suggestions. It would be only too easy for the discussions to consist of statements of already known entrenched positions, each group defending its own interests. Some may say this is inevitable; I am hopeful enough to believe that they are wrong. I have real reasons for hope. Everybody knows instinctively that we will not solve our problems if we keep on going as we have been going. We might have some progress, but resolution of our problems would recede into the indefinite future. Everyone also knows instinctively that obsessive defence of narrow group interests may be fine in the short run but that it is collective madness for the community as a whole. Defence or self interest in the short run may not even be a sensible policy in the longer term for groups which thereby price themselves out of employment or destroy the job opportunities of their own children.

It is part of the Irish tradition that a genuine call for worth while collective action rarely goes unheard. The Green Paper is such a call and I am confident that the response to it will be imaginative and constructive. As I have said, I doubt if any Government in the history of this State have ever produced more radical proposals than the Green Paper has produced. The discussion on the Green Paper so far has been most revealing. On the one hand, the Government with a majority of 20 seats— and clearly not for electoral purposes because we are only a year in office— have put forward proposals for the complete elimination of unemployment. On the other hand, many self-styled progressives and liberals have shown by their reaction that they are truly conservative. They are not prepared to contemplate any real changes in the pattern of public expenditure or any substantial change in the role of the State in the provision of jobs. They are prepared to contemplate with equanimity heavy unemployment being always with us and growing emigration which Fianna Fáil had conquered in 1971 but which started up again under the Coalition.

: You are dreaming. You were there since 1931.

(Interruptions.)

: The Minister, please, without interruption.

: That is a very interesting interjection by Deputy Harte because I think he believes what he is saying. Perhaps when this debate is over he will have a little chat with his leader, because if he does not know it his leader knows it. The fact is that after nearly a century-and-a-half of this country being bled to death and when people were saying we would never get rid of emigration—as they are saying today that we will never have full employment—Fianna Fáil got rid of emigration. In 1971 the inflow started——

: It is a nasty political speech.

: Tonight Deputy FitzGerald and others spoke of emigration as though it had started in the past 12 months. When we came back into office we found that emigration, which we thought we had killed forever, had started again under the Coalition Government. We are going to get rid of emigration and the way we will do so is by providing full employment. We will be told that we cannot have full employment but we remember what the Opposition said to us about emigration. We got rid of emigration and we will get rid of unemployment.

: Who started it?

: In this context, the discussion on the Green Paper has been very revealing. The people who are prepared to contemplate with equanimity the prospect of heavy unemployment always being with us and emigration continuing will accept this rather than agree to any real change in the system they have known and perhaps grown up with.

It is among politicians that the debate on the Green Paper has really shown up yesterday's men. Faced with the most serious social and economic problem of our time—unemployment —the reaction of some of our politicians can only be described as pathetic. It is perfectly legitimate for Fine Gael and Labour to criticise the Government's proposals although, as I pointed out earlier, to the best of my knowledge none of them even mentioned the really radical proposals in the Green Paper. It would be legitimate to expect that if they criticise our proposals they would put forward alternative proposals for the elimination of unemployment, proposals which they believe would be more effective. They have not done so and since they have failed to put forward any proposals whatever for the elimination of unemployment I suggest our young people are entitled to conclude that Fianna Fáil are the only party who are trying to give them a future in their own country.

The last general election marked a watershed in Irish politics. Traditionally, political parties talked in generalisations and did not commit themselves to specific targets because even the slightest deviation from these targets could leave one open to attack by political opponents. For instance, if one set a target of 25,000 jobs one's opponent could say, "Ah, you have created only 24,950 jobs". That kind of thing was the norm. Before the last election, having considered the matter Fianna Fáil came to the conclusion that our people had reached a degree of political understanding that would enable them to recognise that while there might be deviation from specific targets the setting of such targets indicated clearly the direction and thrust of major policy. So, despite the conventional political wisdom, we issued our economic policy document in autumn 1976 and we issued our election manifesto. The rest is history.

Never again will the people be satisfied in an election with anything less than a coherent policy document to which a party are prepared to commit themselves. Fine Gael and Labour, judging by their lack of reaction of any kind to the proposals in the Green Paper, have not understood this fundamental change in Irish politics. They are reacting in the manner of old-fashioned Irish politicians and that is why I have referred to them as yesterday's men. That is why they are becoming more and more irrelevant to any discussion of the major problems facing our people. I hope they will use the opportunity of the coming recess to rethink their position. If they do I wish them well in their efforts. I suggest it would be in the interests of parliamentary democracy in Ireland.

: A nasty political speech.

: Like the one the Deputy made in Mullingar.

: It is a pity the Minister did not use the spare minutes to answer the points I made.

Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 68; Níl, 51.

  • Ahern, Bertie.
  • Ahern, Kit.
  • Allen, Lorcan.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Andrews, Niall.
  • Aylward, Liam.
  • Barrett, Sylvester.
  • Brady, Gerard.
  • Brady, Vincent.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Callanan, John.
  • Colley, George.
  • Conaghan, Hugh.
  • Connolly, Gerard.
  • Cowen, Bernard.
  • Cronin, Jerry.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • Davern, Noel.
  • de Valera, Síle.
  • de Valera, Vivion.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • Fahey, Jackie.
  • Farrell, Joe.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Filgate, Eddie.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Dublin South-Central).
  • Fitzsimons, James N.
  • Fox, Christopher J.
  • French, Seán.
  • Gallagher, Dennis.
  • Gallagher, James.
  • Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
  • Haughey, Charles J.
  • Hussey, Thomas.
  • Keegan, Seán.
  • Kenneally, William.
  • Killeen, Tim.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Lalor, Patrick J.
  • Lawlor, Liam.
  • Lemass, Eileen.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • Leonard, Jimmy.
  • Leonard, Tom.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Loughnane, William.
  • McCreevy, Charlie.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacSharry, Ray.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Moore, Seán.
  • Morley, P.J.
  • Murphy, Ciarán P.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • O'Connor, Timothy C.
  • O'Donoghue, Martin.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • O'Malley, Desmond.
  • Reynolds, Albert.
  • Smith, Michael.
  • Walsh, Joe.
  • Walsh, Seán.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Woods, Michael J.
  • Wyse, Pearse.

Níl

  • Barry, Richard.
  • Begley, Michael.
  • Belton, Luke.
  • Bermingham, Joseph.
  • Boland, John.
  • Burke, Joan.
  • Clinton, Mark.
  • Cluskey, Frank.
  • Collins, Edward.
  • Conlan, John F.
  • Corish, Brendan.
  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Cosgrave, Michael J.
  • Creed, Donal.
  • Crotty, Kieran.
  • Deasy, Martin A.
  • Desmond, Barry.
  • Desmond, Eileen.
  • Donegan, Patrick S.
  • Donnellan, John F.
  • Enright, Thomas W.
  • FitzGerald, Garret.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom (Cavan-Monaghan.)
  • Flanagan, Oliver J.
  • Gilhawley, Eugene.
  • Harte, Patrick D.
  • Hegarty, Paddy.
  • Horgan, John.
  • Keating, Michael.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • Kerrigan, Pat.
  • Lipper, Mick.
  • McMahon, Larry.
  • Mitchell, Jim.
  • Murphy, Michael P.
  • O'Brien, Fergus.
  • O'Brien, William.
  • O'Connell, John.
  • O'Donnell, Tom.
  • O'Keeffe, Jim.
  • O'Leary, Michael.
  • O'Toole, Paddy.
  • Pattison, Séamus.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Ryan, John J.
  • Taylor, Frank.
  • Timmins, Godfrey.
  • Treacy, Seán.
  • Tullv, James.
  • White, James.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies P. Lalor and Briscoe; Níl, Deputies Creed and B. Desmond.
Question declared carried.
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