A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I wish to thank you and the Ceann Comhairle for allowing me to raise on the adjournment what to me is a very important matter indeed. I want to emphasise that I am raising this matter not because I am a member of the visiting committee, and any opinions I give here will be my own and not those of the visiting committee or anyone else. The idea of military custody in the first instance is repugnant to me. I believe it is also repugnant to our people, that ordinary civilian prisoners should be held in military custody at all.
This was introduced here and approved by the House before my time. I understand it was in 1972 that either the Minister for Justice or the Minister for Defence—I am not sure which—came in here and got the approval of the House for the transfer of prisoners from Mountjoy to military custody on the Curragh. There had been a riot in Mountjoy and serious damage had been done to a large section of the prison and it was necessary as a temporary measure to transfer some prisoners to military custody. It was a new procedure and it affected only a certain type of prisoner. They were those prisoners who claimed some sort of political motivation. No one anticipated—I was a public representative even though I was not in this House—that this would become a permanent feature of our prison system. Certainly I did not expect that it would. I believe that the holding of civilian prisoners in military custody is unique in western democracies and so the situation here is unique.
When a defendant is convicted of an offence and sentenced to a term of imprisonment by our courts he is then placed in the custody and under the care of the Minister for Justice. Civilian prisoners transferred to military custody cease to be the responsibility of the Minister for Justice and he has no say in the day-to-day workings of the military prison in which they are held. This is most unsatisfactory. I doubt if it is satisfactory from the point of view of either the Minister for Justice or the Minister for Defence. It is unsatisfactory from the point of view of those who have to look after these prisoners. They did not join the defence forces to become prison warders. They joined for the specific purpose of defending our country from an aggressor or to help the United Nations, or some other body, in peace keeping operations. Those who have engaged in this work have done an excellent job and we can rightly be proud of their achievements at home and abroad. It was never their intention in joining the army to become prison warders but, as good army men always do, they obey orders and do what they are told. They do not want to be any part of the prison warder system. They do not say that because they are disciplined and obey orders. They neither crib nor criticise.
The prison on the Curragh is not a suitable building for long-term prisoners. It is small. The cells are not the kind in which a prisoner should be expected to spend five, six, seven or ten years. The function of a prison is to rehabilitate. Rehabilitation is impossible in the Curragh detention centre because the buildings are so unsatisfactory. Originally every prisoner there claimed political motivation in the crimes he committed. Now only three or four out of a possible 27 or 28 prisoners claim to have any political motivation. The majority are ordinary run-of-the-mill criminals who were convicted in our courts and who should be under the control of the Minister for Justice.
There are fewer than 30 prisoners in the Curragh at the moment. It is not easy to provide the kind of facilities in the Curragh essential to the rehabilitation of long-term prisoners. Rehabilitation could more easily be carried out in the larger prisons at the disposal of the Minister. I do not claim to know a great deal about the facilities available in other prisons but I am led to believe that there is ample accommodation in our ordinary civilian prisons for these prisoners in the Curragh. The reason for their incarceration there no longer exists. A new prison has been built in Dublin and I believe there is space available in Portlaoise where these prisoners could very easily be accommodated. I believe that the present inmates of the Curragh prison have been transferred there from other prisons because they were giving particular trouble to the authorities. This is not as it should be, and the Minister should examine the matter.
The facilities necessary for the rehabilitation of long-term prisoners are not provided at the Curragh. I agree that there have been some improvements. I understand that the Minister is trying to provide more equipment in the gymnasium used by the prisoners. The exercise space is too small for the 30 prisoners there, taking into account that the prisoners would be living in a confined area for a long time. Most of them are long-term prisoners. We have been told by people who know better than I that there are psychiatric problems. Some of the prisoners had these problems before they arrived, but I would not be surprised to learn that prisoners develop these problems within a very short time of their arrival.
The time has now come for the State to provide civilian accommodation in civilian prisons equipped with proper facilities and staffed by trained prison personnel There may have been an excuse for detention in military custody, but we must now realise that it is not truly democratic to hold normal civilian prisoners in military custody. The facilities at the Curragh are not up to the standard which I as an ordinary individual feel is necessary for the rehabilitation of people serving sentences of eight or ten years.
There are problems for people wishing to visit their relatives at the Curragh. These problems concern the location and do not arise because of the staff there. I understand that the Prisoners' Rights Association run a bus from Cork, stopping at Portlaoise, the Curragh and Dublin. The Curragh is a small prison and it is said that the visiting facilities are adequate for the small number of prisoners. I understand that the governor and staff of the prison facilitate visitors coming from Cork by extending the normal entitlement, which is half an hour, to an hour. Visits are allowed between 10 a.m. and noon and between 2 p.m. and 4 p.m. but visitors frequently find difficulty in getting transport from the Curragh. It is not a suitable location. The relatives of prisoners should have a regular transport service to and from the place where prisoners are held. They should have the facilities which are available in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and, to a lesser extent, Portlaoise.
I am not making a party political point. I put this case to the former Government during debates on the Estimate for the Department of Defence and I asked that the military prison be closed. I was a member of a visiting committee which unanimously decided to ask that the prison be closed. I have been consistent in this matter. I did not speak about reports until they were published. They are now public property, and I ask the Minister in the name of humanity to give these prisoners the same rights as other civilian prisoners.
During a television interview on this matter I was asked why people should not be held in military custody. I asked the interviewer what he would say if all prisons were closed down and the prisoners were transferred to military camps. I do not think anyone would accept that. I ask the Minister to give an undertaking that the civilian prison at the Curragh will be closed.
