Amendment No. 1. Amendment No. 3 is consequential so we shall discuss amendments Nos. 1 and 3 together.
Insurance (Amendment) Bill, 1978: Committee and Final Stages.
Section 1 agreed to.
SECTION 2.
I move amendment No. 1:
In page 2, subsection (1) (a) (ii), lines 23 to 25, to delete ",being a contract to which a body to which this clause applies is a party,".
Originally the provision was included in the Bill in response to representations from the Department of Finance who are particularly concerned to ensure that in cases where Irish persons or bodies seek and are being granted loan facilities from foreign financial institutions on conditions of a guarantee by an Irish licensed bank the latter will be able to give that financial guarantee. The loans ordinarily would be from the institutions mentioned in section 2 (2). Since the publication of the Bill the banks, as represented by the Irish Banks Standing Committee, made very strong representations that the licensed banks should not be confined to granting these guarantees to the restricted institutions in section 2 (2) but should be allowed to give them inter-bank freely or to other persons not being banks, for instance, in respect of revenue duties, port duties or facilities required by a customer.
Consequently I tabled this amendment which meets the banks' request in respect of all pure financial guarantees where the sole obligation of the person under the contract is payment of a sum of money. This is accepted as an essential ancillary to bank customer service. This facility is available in most foreign countries—for example in the United Kingdom under the 1974 Act. This provision, as amended, will make the legal position of banks on this matter clear and will meet the requirements of the Minister for Finance.
Amendment agreed to.
I move amendment No. 2:
In page 3, subsection (1), lines 12 to 21, to delete paragraph (b) and substitute the following:
"(b) in the course of his banking business given or entered into, as surety or guarantor, by a person resident outside the State to satisfy, and only for the purpose of, a requirement which is both—
(i) a requirement of a licensee, and
(ii) made solely for the purposes of securing financial facilities to be made available by that licensee.".
This represents a degree of access by foreign banks to the Irish market. Such foreign bank involvement is necessary to meet the requirements of licensed banks which, in making loan finance available to the Irish operations of foreign companies, require, in the course of banking business, that banks of such foreign companies act as guarantors on behalf of such Irish operations. The extent of the foreign banks involvement is being controlled in so far as it must be at the request of a licensed bank. It was intended also to further limit the scope of the foreign banks' involvement to certain areas of industry, as defined in section 2 (1) (b) (ii). This latter restriction is now being removed as a result of representations from the banks standing committee which reveal that other areas of need for this facility existed. The amendment will extend the scope of foreign banks' involvement in this area to cover all guarantee business in which licensed banks may require guarantees from foreign banks in respect of sums, certain or ascertainable, by removing subsection (1) (b) (ii) of this section.
Amendment agreed to.
I move amendment No. 3:
In page 3, lines 22 to 27, to delete subsection (2).
Amendment agreed to.
Amendment No. 4 in the name of Deputy Kelly. Amendments Nos. 5 and 6 are consequential so amendments Nos. 4, 5 and 6 may be discussed together.
I move amendment No. 4:
In page 3, line 29, to delete "the Act of 1971' means the Central Bank Act, 1971;"
This is a drafting amendment. I explained on the last occasion the Bill was before the House that I thought it would be neater and less confusing to do it like this because I felt that to have the Act of 1971 in a section here which will now become part of a set of Insurance Acts, one of which was passed in 1971, would possibly lead someone looking at the thing quickly astray. I will not put the point further than that if the Minister does not feel disposed to accept the amendment. I think what I suggest would be a neater job.
Deputy Kelly raised this matter on the Second Stage and I have since had it examined. I am informed by the parliamentary draftsman that where an Act is referred to more than once the normal drafting practice demands that such an Act be defined as is being done in this case. I sympathise with Deputy Kelly but I am afraid I cannot accept the amendment.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Amendment No. 5 not moved.
I move amendment No. a5a:
In page 3, subsection (3), lines 34 and 35, to delete all words after "construction" down to and including "State" and to substitute the following:
"or for the development of any land for agricultural, mining or quarrying purposes, or the exploration or exploitation of the sea-bed, (or anything thereon or thereunder), whether the building, structure or other such work, or the land or the part of the sea-bed concerned is to be or is situated in or outside the State".
This is a drafting improvement on an amendment originally tabled by Deputy Kelly. His amendment was acceptable but for reasons of draftsmanship, in order to tidy the amendment up somewhat, the parliamentary draftsman made some changes, the principal one being the insertion of the word "exploration" as well as exploitation. Deputy Kelly referred only to exploitation. It was felt that exploration should also be included. I have also gone further than Deputy Kelly. He referred to the exploitation of the sea bed. I have added "anything thereon or thereunder". The final part of my amendment refers to "is situated in or outside the State". Deputy Kelly referred to "in or outside the State and its territorial limits". I hope he will accept my amendment.
I accept this amendment is an improvement on my effort. I had no sooner put in the amendment than I became unhappy about the final words which did not, I think, and anything to it. I am glad to agree to the Minister's amendment.
Amendment agreed to.
Amendment No. 5a not moved.
Amendment No. 6 not moved.
I move amendment No. 7:
In page 3, subsection (3), between lines 37 and 38, to insert the following:
" `service' includes advice on, ordering, supplying or installation of any plant or equipment whether produced in or outside the State;".
I do not know what the Minister's position is about this amendment. I made the point the last day that an operation which would involve, for example, advising on the setting up of some kind of medical unit—say a gynaecological unit or an X-ray unit—might involve ordering the equipment and installing it. I understood the Minister to say he intended something of that sort to be covered by the Bill and he thought it would be covered by the word "service" in section 2 (1) (ii), line 18, page 2. That may be so but I am just wondering whether if it ever arose for litigation it could be said that the function of ordering equipment or installing it, or employing a subcontractor to instal it, was a service. I accept it may be but I thought it worthwhile putting the matter beyond doubt.
Again, Deputy Kelly having raised this point on Second Stage, I had it examined and I am advised by the parliamentary draftsman that the position is more than adequately covered and I, therefore, cannot accept the amendment.
I am sure the Minister realises that under the conventions of our legal system parliamentary debates are not admissible in order to explain the words in an Act and I shall be watching to see if anything of the kind I suggest subsequently arises because, if it does arise, whichever litigant is caught will not be able to point to this debate and the interpretation the Minister puts upon this sub-paragraph.
The position is that if a sub-contractor is employed the responsibility would still lie on the primary contractor. As far as the amendment is concerned, I am afraid it would make the interpretation of the word "service" exclusive rather than inclusive.
Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.
Section 2, as amended, agreed to.
Sections 3 and 4, inclusive, agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Agreed to take remaining Stages today.
Bill reported with amendments, and passed.