I thank the various Deputies for their contributions and for the compliments which they have paid to the Defence Forces for the exemplary manner in which they have carried out the many onerous duties they have been called upon to perform in recent years. I am glad that the House has given a clear welcome to the Bill which, simply stated, merely establishes a new rank in the Army, the rank of brigadier-general and that of rear-admiral in the Naval Service. It may have been an omission on my part not to have mentioned the pay of a brigadier-general, but I can now put that on the record. The pay for the new rank of brigadier-general will be £9,700 a year which, including a responsibility allowance of £894 is at present the pay of a person holding the appointment OC of a command. Those persons who hold the appointment of OC in the four commands, whom it is my intention to promote to brigadier-general if the House agrees to the Bill, will not receive any increase in their rates of remuneration because of the relationship of the pay of a brigadier-general to the rate of pay of which they are presently in receipt plus the allowance for the appointments. Therefore, what I am doing is merely amalgamating the salary and allowance of the command OCs into one salary figure for a brigadier-general.
I do not know whether it is true that the ranks here are different from what they are in other western nations, as Deputy White has said. In nearly all ranks now we equate to the ranks as they exist in most of the other western nations except in the one he mentioned, that of commandant, which is the equivalent of major in most other armies. There are historical reasons for the retention of the rank of commandant in the Irish Army which go back to the War of Independence. It was an Irish Volunteer and Old IRA rank. Subsequent Governments deemed it appropriate that for that historical reason it should be retained as a link with the past. It is unique to the Irish Army to have the rank of commandant and because of these historical connections it would not be my wish to do away with that rank, particularly as the founder of my party held that rank in the IRA of those days, as I am sure many friends of Deputy White's party did also.
Deputy White drew comparisons between the Army and the Garda. I do not intend to follow him down that avenue because it is not strictly related to this Bill. Possibly the matter will come up on another occasion and I might have an opportunity of dealing with it in an Estimate perhaps. I do not think it is possible to make direct comparisons of the kind which the Deputy attempted. It is a complex issue and if the Deputy would raise it on another occasion I would be happy to let him have more accurate equivalents with regard to the pay of persons in the Garda and the Army. The pay structure is different, the responsibilities are different and the duties are not altogether the same.
It is not proposed that there would be any change in the rank structures in the FCA, as Deputy White inquired. That will not arise as these ranks will, as far as one can see, continue in the future to affect only the Permanent Defence Force and the officers holding the principal military posts in the Permanent Defence Force.
On the question of pay, in general the Defence Forces receive increases in line with whatever increases are granted from time to time to the civil service. Notwithstanding that, it is my intention that the rate of remuneration to all men serving in the forces should be kept under review, and that where improvements are deemed to be necessary, steps will be taken to bring about those improvements. As well as the basic rate of pay there are various allowances for security duties, Border duties and other forms of exceptional duties. I have attempted to keep these under review. Nearly all of them have been increased during my short term of office, and I hope to continue to seek to ensure that the remuneration of the men who give such loyal service to the Defence Forces would be such as would befit the excellence of the service which they have given. I would always agree with those who state that possibly they are not being paid enough, and it would be my job to seek to have improvements brought about in the conditions of service and in the remuneration itself. There already have been improvements and it is an ongoing matter which will receive continuous attention from me.
Deputy Ryan mentioned the question of overseas allowances paid to those serving with the United Nations in southern Lebanon. He referred to statements he made some months back. It is unfortunate that he made those statements because they were not accurate, they were very misleading and were not very helpful to the families and friends of those men who were serving abroad. I did not get any notice that he was going to raise that issue, but I recollect him making statements of the kind which conveyed the impression that the men did not have enough money to buy food and that kind of thing. This is totally inaccurate and it was most unfortunate that he made those statements. It would have been much wiser if he had consulted with the Department, checked these matters and then made his comments. I would advise Deputies always to do that especially in regard to any group of our soldiers who are serving overseas. It is wrong that inaccurate information about the conditions should get out. A statement of that kind can create uneasiness for the families, friends and girl friends when their loved ones are away serving a difficult mission abroad. I appeal especially to public representatives to contact my Department where they will always find a willing ear and will be given the exact position. My Department seek at all times to keep up to date with the situation, and on a day-to-day basis we know what is going on out there.
Deputy Ryan also unfortunately made some criticism of the recruiting campaign which is going on at the moment. I had hoped that there would be words of encouragement from both parties on the Opposition side of the House to young men to join the Army, rather than inaccurate criticisms. I do not know where Deputy Ryan got the figure of £24 per week. It is inaccurate and most misleading, and it is unfortunate that he should make this kind of statement. The rates of pay can easily be made available. Income tax applies to all citizens who earn an income, according to their circumstances. We know that the allowances for a single person are not as generous as they are for a married person who has the care of a wife and possibly children to look after, and as one's family increases the allowance increases. One must take these matters into account. No matter what his marital status is, there is no soldier, single or otherwise, in receipt of the sum of only £24. Again it is unfortunate that people get up and make this kind of statement. It does not help. I am sure the spokesmen on Defence on the other side of the House are aware that when one is dealing with the Defence Forces the morale of the men is of great importance and this type of statement does nothing to help boost that morale. I am glad that Deputy White did not resort to that type of statement. He has all along given me very encouragement and support for whatever moves I have sought to make to improve the conditions for the men in the Defence Forces. I hope that that happy relationship will continue to exist between Deputy White, the Fine Gael Party and myself. I appeal to Deputy Ryan to step into line because it is in the interest of all of us that morale and discipline in our Defence Forces should be nothing but the very best. If there are matters disturbing any Deputies they can always come to me for information if they are having difficulty in getting it elsewhere.
Deputy Boland who is an intrepid sailor himself referred to the Naval Service and he made some pertinent points. I suppose it is true that the situation to which he referred will continue to exist in regard to the Naval Service and the Air Corps as people are inclined to regard them as being separate forces. They are not. They are Corps within the Defence Forces. They are not a defence force in their own right but are part of the Irish Defence Forces which are made up of the Army, the Air Corps and the Naval Service.
In my time as Minister I have not found any of the resentment that was mentioned by Deputy Boland in regard to the necessity for Naval Service personnel to make their case to senior officers in the Army who then present the case to the Civil Service or possibly to the Minister. I seek to take a personal interest, on a week-to-week basis, in the affairs of the Naval Service, the Air Corps and other branches of the Forces. I try to keep myself up-to-date and informed and as close to the situation as is possible for any Minister. I think I would be in a better position to judge if there was any need for attention in this area in regard to resentment between the Naval officers and the Army officers. I have not found it. The Naval Service are under great strain. In a very short period of time they have been asked to take responsibility for patrolling a vast area of water since the introduction of the 200-mile limit. This necessitates the rapid expansion of the Naval Service in regard to the number of ships and the personnel to man them.
Deputy Ryan got it wrong in the sense that he was saying we would need more ships and planes. So far as equipment is concerned, we will be able to supply the ships and planes. Our difficulty might be more in getting personnel to man the ships. The training of huge numbers in a short period presents great difficulties but everything possible will be done by me and by my Department to ease those difficulties. We are aware of the extra burdens falling on senior officers in the Naval Service. They have our support and I am confident that the force will be able to continue to give the first-class service it has given up to now and to give it in the expanded service.
The strength of the Naval Service is increasing year by year. In the next few years it is hoped to reach the figure of 1,000 and it will be necessary to exceed that figure to a considerable extent. One can see that by the mid or late 1980s possibly there will need to be 4,000 or 5,000 personnel in the Naval Service. When I took over there were approximately 700. One can appreciate the difficulties that have to be overcome in the way of training officers and NCO's of all ranks to ensure that the service carries out its duties efficiently in the enlarged area.
The question of pay of technical officers in the Naval Service has been presenting us with a problem, and this was mentioned in the debate. The matter has had my personal attention and is continuing to have it. I appreciate that the comments made by Deputy Boland were made in the best faith and certainly I shall do everything I can to improve the position. The reality is that we are competing with outside services. We are competing with the various shipping companies, who are offering more and more attractions to men to serve on their vessels, and to match that presents obvious difficulties. Our conditions of service must relate to the armed forces and to the entire public service. I ask for the goodwill of Members of this House in trying to deal with this problem and in ensuring that we gain adequate technical officers for the Naval Service. We must ensure that our ships are manned with the number of engineers that are necessary.
At all levels of command in the Naval Service there is need for more men and there will be vacancies in the service for a long time. I appeal to any Irishman who holds the qualifications necessary, such as marine engineering certificates, to consider joining the service. There are vacancies and the conditions of service at the moment are good. We hope to improve them so that the personnel will have a satisfying life at sea and at home. There are also vacancies for executive branch officers in the Naval Service and I appeal to young men to consider making their career at sea in a modern navy and in modern vessels. They will have a good future and a satisfying career.
I do not think any other points were raised that warrant comment from me. I wish to thank the House for the welcome given to this move to create a more rational rank structure in the Irish Army. I hope it will improve the career structure for those officers who have chosen the Army as their career and that they will find it a rewarding and satisfying life.
