An Bille um Údarás na Gaeltachta, 1978: An Tuarascáil (Atógáil). Údarás na Gaeltachta Bill, 1978: Report Stage (Resumed).

D'athtógadh an díospóireacht ar leasú Uimh. a 2:
In page 10, between lines 17 and 18, to insert the following:
"9.—(1) For the purpose of promoting the linguistic, economic, social, cultural and environmental development of the Gaeltacht, the advice and consent of An tÚdarás shall be sought by any planning authority operating in the Gaeltacht before planning permission is given for any development in the Gaeltacht.
(2) Nothing in this section shall restrict the right of any applicant to appeal to An Bord Pleanála.".
Debate resumed on amendment No. 2:
Ar leathnach 11, idir linte 18 agus 19, an méid seo a leanas a chur isteach:
"9.—(1) Chun forbairt na Gaeltachta a chur chun cinn ó thaobh teanga, geilleagair, sóisialachta, cultúir agus gnéthiúlachta, iarrfaidh aon údarás pleanála a bheidh ag feidhmiú sa Ghaeltacht comhairle agus toiliú an Údaráis sula dtabharfar cead pleanála le haghaidh aon fhor-bairt sa Ghaeltacht.
(2) Ni chuirfidh aon ni san alt seo srian le ceart aon iarratasóra achomharc a dhéanamh chun An Bhoird Phleanála."
—(Deputy Horgan).

When I moved the adjournment I was expressing my disappointment with the fact that the Minister had not come any step of the road to meet us on either of these two amendments, which seek to give An tÚdarás some positive role to play in relation to the physical and environmental planning in the Gaeltacht areas. The Minister has argued that all these powers can be made available to An tÚdarás if and when it decides to ask for them. I was making the point that if and when it does decide to ask for them—it would be a strange Údarás if it did not ask for more powers than the Minister is giving it in this Bill—the Minister will be put to the pin of his collar to get any parliamentary time in order to produce the necessary amending resolution. Worse than that, we have not had even an inkling of what the Minister's reaction would be to a situation where he was asked by An tÚdarás for such powers. It is a small thing to ask. If the Minister had taken advantage of this forum in Dáil Éireann to give an indication to whoever will be the members of An tÚdarás that he would be sympathetically disposed to granting them powers in this area if they thought they were necessary to carry out their functions in an adequate way, we might not have to press this so hard. All the Minister has done is to hide behind the rather bland terms of the Bill and to refuse to give An tÚdarás, not just a deliberate voice, but an advisory voice in the physical planning of the Gaeltacht, a matter that goes to the heart of what constitutes the Gaeltacht and its future as a viable reality within our country.

Ba mhaith liom——

Níl cead ag an Teachta labhairt aris. Táimid ar an dTuarascáil.

Fáisnéiseadh go rabhthas tar éis diultiú don leasú.

Amendment put and declared lost.

Tairigim leasú Uimh. a 3:

Ar leathnach 11, idir linte 18 agus 19, an méid seo a leanas a chur isteach:

"9.—(1) Chun forbairt na Gaeltachta a chur chun cinn ó thaobh teanga, geilleagair, sóisialachta, cultúir agus gnéithiúlachta, iarrfaidh aon údarás pleanála a bheidh ag feidhmiú sa Ghaeltacht comhairle An Udaráis sula dtabharfar cead pleanála le haghaidh aon fhorbairt sa Ghaeltacht.

(2) Ní chuirfidh aon ní san alt seo srian le ceart aon iarratasóra achomharc a dhéanamh chun An Bhoird Phleanála."

I move amendment No. 3:

In page 10, between lines 17 and 18, to insert the following:

"9.—(1) For the purpose of promoting the linguistic, economic, social, cultural and environmental development of the Gaeltacht, the advice of An tÚdarás shall be sought by any planning authority operating in the Gaeltacht before planning permission is given for any development in the Gaeltacht.

(2) Nothing in this section shall restrict the right of any applicant to appeal to An Bord Pleanála.".

Cuireadh an leasú.

Amendment put.
Rinne an Dáil votáil: Tá, 38; Níl, 62.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 38; Níl, 62.

  • Barry, Peter.
  • Barry, Richard.
  • Belton, Luke.
  • Bermingham, Joseph.
  • Bruton, John.
  • Burke, Joan.
  • Clinton, Mark.
  • Collins, Edward.
  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • Cosgrave, Michael J.
  • Crotty, Kieran.
  • D'Arcy, Michael J.
  • Deasy, Martin A.
  • Donnellan, John F.
  • FitzGerald, Garret.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom. (Cavan-Monaghan).
  • Flanagan, Oliver J.
  • Griffin, Brendan.
  • Harte, Patrick D.
  • Hegarty, Paddy.
  • Horgan, John.
  • Keating, Michael.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • Lipper, Mick.
  • Mannion, John M.
  • Mitchell, Jim.
  • Murphy, Michael P.
  • O'Brien, William.
  • O'Connell, John.
  • O'Donnell, Tom.
  • O'Keeffe, Jim.
  • O'Toole, Paddy.
  • Ryan, John J.
  • Taylor, Frank.
  • Timmins, Godfrey.
  • Tully, James.
  • White, James.

Níl

  • Ahern, Kit.
  • Allen, Lorcan.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Andrews, Niall.
  • Aylward, Liam.
  • Barrett, Sylvester.
  • Brady, Gerard.
  • Brady, Vincent.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Callanan, John.
  • Cogan, Barry.
  • Colley, George.
  • Collins, Gerard.
  • Conaghan, Hugh.
  • Connolly, Gerard.
  • Cowen, Bernard.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • Leonard, Jimmy.
  • Leonard, Tom.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Lynch, Jack.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacSharry, Ray.
  • Meaney, Tom.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Morley, P.J.
  • Murphy, Ciarán P.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • O'Connor, Timothy C.
  • Davern, Noel.
  • Farrell, Joe.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Filgate, Eddie.
  • Fitzgerald, Gene.
  • Fitzsimons, James N.
  • Fox, Christopher J.
  • French, Seán.
  • Gallagher, Dennis.
  • Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
  • Gibbons, Jim.
  • Haughey, Charles J.
  • Hussey, Thomas.
  • Keegan, Seán.
  • Killeen, Tim.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Lalor, Patrick J.
  • Lemass, Eileen.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • O'Donoghue, Martin.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • O'Malley, Desmond.
  • Reynolds, Albert.
  • Smith, Michael.
  • Tunney, Jim.
  • Walsh, Joe.
  • Walsh, Seán.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Woods, Michael J.
  • Wyse, Pearse.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Donnellan and Horgan; Nil, Deputies P. Lalor and Briscoe.
Amendment declared lost.
Airitheoiri: Tá, Teachtaí Donnellan agus Horgan; Níl, Teachtaí P. Lalor agus Briscoe.
Faisnéiseadh go rabhthas tar éis diúltú don leasú.

Tairgim leasú Uimh. a 4:

Ar leathanach 11, idir línte 18 agus 19, an méid seo a leanas a chur isteach:

"9.—Chun forbairt na Gaeltachta a chur chun cinn ó thaobh teanga, geilleagair, sóisialachta, cultúir agus gnéithiúlachta, déanfaidh An tÚdarás a cheadú nó a neamhcheadú a lua i leith gach iarratas pleanála don Ghaeltacht a chuirfear faoi bhráid aon údaráis áitiúil.".

I move amendment No. 4:

In page 10, between lines 17 and 18, to insert the following:

"9.—For the purpose of promoting the linguistic, economic, social, cultural and environmental development of the Gaeltacht. An tÚdarás shall indicate its approval or disapproval of all planning applications for the Gaeltacht submitted to any local authority.".

This is an alternative version of the earlier amendments we have been dealing with. One could argue that the earlier amendments were better than this and that they sought to put on the planning authority the duty of consulting with An tÚdarás in relation to planning applications within the Gaeltacht areas. This is less satisfactory in the sense that it puts the obligation initially on An tÚdarás to scrutinise and, if necessary, object to all planning applications within the Gaeltacht areas. I suspect that An tÚdarás will be busy enough without having to make it its business to find out without being told automatically what planning applications are pending in the Gaeltacht areas and so I would have preferred that the onus should have been on the planning authority in any situation to make available directly to An tÚdarás lists of planning applications for its advice and/or acceptance. This alternative version strives to give An tÚdarás a statutory role as a planning, not necessarily authority but planning voice in the general administration of the physical planning of the Gaeltacht areas. I urge the Minister to accept it from these benches.

Aontaím leis an leasú seo. Os rud é nach raibh an tAire sásta leis na leasuithe a bhi againn roimhe seo, sílim go mba chóir dó an leasú seo a ghlacadh. Baineann an leasú seo, mar bhain na leasuithe eile, le rud anthábhachtach ar fad chun forbairt na Gaeltachta. Tá sé riachtanach go mbeadh guth ag An Údarás nua i dtaobh fadhbanna pleanála na Gaeltachta, go háirithe fadhbanna fisiciúla. Mar a thuigimse an scéal, is é an príomh cuspóir nó an príomh dualgas a bheidh ag An Údarás nua ná forbairt na Gaeltachta a chur chun cinn ar gach caoi, agus is é an forbairt bunúsach a bheidh le déanamh ag An Údarás ná i dtaobh eacnamaíocht. Anois, baineann cúrsaí pleanála go mór le forbairt eacnamaiochta agus ba chóir go mbeadh guth agus suim ag An Údarás i gcúrsaí pleanála sa Ghaeltacht. Dá bhrí sin ba chóir go mbeadh guth de shaghas éigin ag An Údarás go háirithe nuair a thagann iarrthóirí pleanála os comhair na comhairle contae nó aon údarás áitiúil eile.

This concerns the whole question of environmental development in the Gaeltacht and it is vital that the Údarás should have a voice in deciding the appropriate type of planning that should take place in any Gaeltacht area. Mar sin, iarraim ar an Aire an leasú seo a ghlacadh. Táim sásta go gcabhróidh an leasú seo go mór chun forbairt pleanála a chur i bhfeidhm sa Ghaeltacht.

Níl an leasú seo ag teacht leis an rud atá ráite ag na Teachtaí atá á mholadh. Deireann an leasú go mbeadh ceart ag An Údarás moladh a dhéanamh leis an gcomhairle chontae pleanáil a cheadú nó a dhiúltú i gcás ar bith pleanála sa Ghaeltacht. Ní shilim go mbeadh an ceart ansin. Mura mbeadh cumhacht acu i gcúrsaí mar sin, ní bheadh san leasú seo ach cur amú ama don Údarás.

I am sorry that the Minister should dismiss the amendment out of hand. I would like to clarify one or two things. I have said that we are not here seeking effectively even to give a power to An tÚdarás; that question was defeated in an earlier amendment. We are seeking effectively to impose a modest obligation on An tÚdarás, an obligation which I am sure An tÚdarás would welcome in the light of all the circumstances surrounding their establishment and the area in which they are expected to operate. It might well be that some planning application of significance might escape their notice unless they were put under an obligation to adopt a positive attitude to such planning applications, and that is the whole force of this amendment. If the amendment is defeated we are left in the unhappy situation that we do not really know whether An tÚdarás as such have any standing at all in the planning code. There may be scope for argument, at meetings of An tÚdarás in which objection might be made to any planning application in relation to a Gaeltacht project, about whether An tÚdarás have the right as An tÚdarás to submit an objection to An Bord Pleanála. In that situation it may well be that members of An tÚdarás may have to fall back in their personal capacity, as individuals, to objecting to planning decisions or planning proposals. The whole value of an amendment of this kind is that it would give An tÚdarás a standing in the whole planning process and would enable An tÚdarás to make representations—no more than that—of a planning nature in such a way as to shield individual members of An tÚdarás from the perhaps sometimes awkward consequences of having personally to make objections to a planning application. The whole value of giving An tÚdarás a corporate role in the planning field would be precisely that it would enable them to take global decisions in relation to the overall wisdom or unwisdom of any planning application in a way that would protect individual members of An tÚdarás from accusations that they were attempting to further particular interests, local or otherwise. Therefore, I am pressing the amendment.

Faisnéiseadh go rabhthas tar éis diúltú don leasú.

Amendment put and declared lost.

Tá an leasú Uimh. a 5 as órd. Amendment No. 5 is out of order. Amendments Nos. 6 and 7 form a composite proposal and we take these amendments together.

Tairgim leasú Uimh. a 6:

Ar leathanach 11, line 20, "teanga," a chur isteach roimh "geilleagair".

I move amendment No. 6:

In page 10, line 18, before "economic" to insert "linguistic,".

This amendment is virtually self-explanatory and does not need any great argument from me in order to present it to the Minister and the House. The Minister would show some small generosity if he were to accept it because it seeks to reverse the order of words in the subsection and to put "linguistic" before "economic". If we are serious in our belief that the fundamental objective of An tÚdarás is the linguistic objective and that the economic objective, although extremely important, is basically subservient to that linguistic objective, we should put the linguistic claim of An tÚdarás first. I even doubt whether changing the order will have much practical significance in relation to the activities of An tÚdarás, but in terms of public relations, the way in which the work of An tÚdarás is and can be presented to the public both inside and outside the Gaeltacht, it would be a small change that would not be without significance. I urge it on the Minister.

There is no need for me to elaborate further on what Deputy Horgan has said, but there is a very fundamental principle at stake here. I recall quite clearly that on many occasions when I had the privilege to be Minister for the Gaeltacht, people said that they were of the opinion that the accelerated economic development had a very serious adverse effect on the linguistic development of the Gaeltacht. Everyone recognises the fact that if the Gaeltacht is to survive it is necessary to create the maximum economic activity there to stabilise the population and to provide job opportunities and so forth.

Dá bhrí sin an príomh aidhm a bhéas ag Údarás na Gaeltachta ná slánú na Gaeltachta agus an teanga, agus ní dhéanfaidh an leasú seo aon athrú bunúsach. Ach tá prionsabal i gceist anseo agus tá sé fíor-thábhachtach go mbeadh an béim i gcónaí curtha ar an teanga agus ar chúrsaí eacnamaíochta na Gaeltachta.

Glacadh leis na focail sin, na focail mar atá siad anseo sa Bhille, de réir mar a bhí siad i nGníomh don Ghaeltacht, agus is dócha go bhfuil fáth ar leith leo ó thárla gur ar chúrsaí géilleagair a bhí obair Ghaeltarra dírithe go príomha. Níl mé ag clamhsán leis na Teachthaí mar gheall ar na moltaí atá éanta acu, ach sílim nach ceart teanga agus cultúr a bhriseadh óna chéile. An mbeidh siad sásta, ó thaobh teanga, cultúir, sóisialachta, gneithiulachta agus géilleagair, chun go mbeadh teanga agus cultúr le chéile, nach mbeadh siad scartha óna chéile——

Bheimís sásta teanga agus cultúr a chur le chéile.

It is now being proposed to amend the amendment.

Sílim nach ceart an dá rud a scaradh ó chéile.

Ba mhaith lion a rá go bhfuil an ceart ag an Aire, agus aontaím leis an méid adúirt sé.

Tairgim:

In ionad leasuithe Uimh. a 6 agus a 7 tairgim gur mar seo a leanas a bheidh line 20 ar leathanach 11 "teanga, cultúir, sóisialachta, gnéithiúlachta agus géilleagair beidh" agus go gcuirfear na focail chuí san ord céanna sa leagan Béarla.

The record of the House will show clearly how the Minister proposes to amend the amendment. In the interests of not separating "linguistic" from "cultural" and giving them both the priority that we on all sides of the House agree to be essential, if this is done by agreement I would be very happy to accept the Minister's amendment to my amendment.

If it is agreeable to the House, I suggest to the Minister that he give the Clerk of the Dáil a copy of the amended amendment.

Aontaíodh an leasú.

Amendment agreed to.
Aontaíodh an leasú mar a leasaíodh é.
Amendment, as amended, agreed to.
Níor tairgíodh leasú Uimh. a 7.
Amendment No. 7 not moved.

Amendment No. 8 must be recommitted as it involves new matter of substance which does not effectively arise out of Committee proceedings.

Bille curtha faoi athchúrsa maidir le leasú a 8.

Bill recommitted in respect of amendment No. 8.

Tairgim leasú a 8:

Ar leathanach 19, idir line 33 agus 34, an t-alt nua seo a leanas a chur isteach:

"25.—Ní bheidh aon dleacht stampa iníoctha ar aon ionstraim faoina bhfaigheann an tÚdarás aon mhaoin agus, chun críche an ailt seo, folaíonn ‘maoin' leasanna agus cearta d'aon chineál".

I move amendment No. 8:

In page 18, between lines 33 and 34, to insert the following new section:

"25.—No stamp duty shall be payable on any instrument under which any property is acquired by an tÚdarás and, for the purpose of this section, ‘property' includes interests and rights of any description."

Níl morán le rá faoi seo. Sílim go bhfuil gá leis agus nach ceart aon easaontas a bheith faoi.

Aontaíodh an leasú.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendments Nos. 9, 10 and 12 are consequential on 11 and therefore all these amendments may be taken together.

Tairgim leasú a 9:

Ar leathanach 21, línte 14 agus 15 a scriosadh agus an méid seo a leanas a chur ina n-ionad:

"ciallaíonn ‘ceann comhairimh' duine is ceann comhairimh faoi alt 31 chun críocha na Coda seo;".

I move amendment No. 9:

In page 20, line 16, to delete "the" in each place where it occurs, and substitute "a".

Ar Chéim an Choiste bhí an Teachta Horgan ag lorg eolais faoi cheann comhairimh. Tá sé leagtha amach in alt 31 faoi cheann comhairimh. Tá sé sásta gur fearr cloí leis an ngnáth nós faoina mbionn duine ar leith ina cheann comhairimh do gach toghlach agus go gceapfar triúr.

Aontaím leis an méid atá ráite ag an Aire. Tá sé soiléir.

Aontaíodh an leasú.

Amendment agreed to.

Tairgim leasú a 10:

Ar leathanach 21, line 24, "an" a scriosadh.

I move amendment No. 10:

In page 20, line 26, to delete "the" where it first occurs, and substitute "a".

Aontaíodh an leasú.

Amendment agreed to.

Tairgim leasú a 11:

Ar leathanach 23, línte 14 go 16 a scriosadh agus méid seo a leanas a chur ina n-ionad:

"31.—(1) Chun críocha na Coda seo déanfaidh an tAire, maidir le gach toghlach dá sonraítear in alt 28, duine cuí oiriúnach a cheapadh le bheith ina cheann comhairimh, agus is é dualgas ginearálta an cheann comhairimh gach gníomh agus ní a dhéanamh is gá chun toghchán a stiúradh go héifeachtúil ina thoghlach, torthaí an toghcháin sin a chinntiú agus a dhearbhú agus freagra i dtaobh na ndaoine a toghadh don toghlach sin a thabhairt don Aire".

I move amendment No. 11:

In page 22, to delete lines 15 to 17 and substitute the following:

"31.—(1) For the purposes of this Part the Minister shall, in respect of each constituency specified in section 28, appoint a fit and proper person to be the returning officer, and it shall be the general duty of the returning officer to do all such acts and things as may be necessary for effectually conducting an election in his constituency, to ascertain and declare the results of that election and to furnish to the Minister a return of the persons elected for that constituency".

Aontaiodh an leasú.

Amendment agreed to.

Tairgim leasú a 12:

Ar leathnach 23, line 49, "an" a scriosadh.

I move amendment No. 12:

In page 22, line 46, to delete "the" and substitute "a".

Aontaiodh an leasú.

Amendment agreed to.

Tairgim leasú a 13:

Ar leathnach 25, línte 14 agus 15 a scriosadh agus an méid seo a leanas a chur ina n-ionad:

"(xix) cláir toghthóirí a ullmhaíodh chun críche toghchán áitiúil a úsáid agus cláir arb iad na cláir toghthóirí don Údarás iad a thiomsú as na cláir sin."

I move amendment No. 13:

In page 24, to delete lines 13 to 15 and substitute the following:

"(xix) the use of registers of electors prepared for the purpose of local elections and the compilation from such registers of registers which shall be the registers of electors for An tÚdarás."

Faoin alt seo beidh clár do thoghthóirí don Údarás ag teastáil. Tógfar na hainmneacha cuí ó na cláir dona toghcháin áitiúla. Bhí pointe mar seo ag an Teachta Begley ar Chéim an Choiste.

Aontaíodh an leasú.

Amendment agreed to.

Amendments Nos. 14 and 15 are related and may be taken together.

Tairgim leasú a 14:

Ar leathnach 25, mir 2 (b) (ii), line 52:

", nó a gheofar ciontach i gcion faoi alt 15 den Acht seo, nó a mhainneoidh leas a nochtadh mar a cheanglaitear faoi mhir 8 den Sceideal seo" a chur isteach i ndiaidh "sin".

I move amendment No. 14:

In page 24, paragraph 2 (b) (ii), line 50, after "constituency" to add:

", or who is found guilty of an offence under section 15 of this Act or who fails to make a disclosure required under paragraph 8 of this Schedule.".

Níl sé deacair dom a admháil go bhfuil na focail atá ag teacht ón Aire i bhfad níos fearr ná na focail atá le fáil san leasú atá thios agamsa. Tá áthas orm freisin gur ghlac an tAire leis na pointí a luaigh mé i rith na díospóireachta ar Chéim an Choiste. Is pointi tábhachtacha iad sin. Dá bhrí sin, más mian leis an Teach, ba mhaith liomsa leasú a 14 a tharraing siar.

Tarraingíodh siar an leasú faoi chead.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Tairgim leasú a 15:

Ar leathanach 27, line 28, "nó má chiontaítear é i gcion faoi alt 15 nó má dheimhníonn an tAire gur mhainnigh sé leas a nochtadh faoi mhir 8" a chur isteach i ndiaidh "Stát".

I move amendment No. 15:

In page 26, line 28, after "State" to insert ‘or is convicted of an offence under section 15 or is certified by the Minister to have failed to make a disclosure under paragraph 8."

Aontaíodh an leasú.

Amendment agreed to.

Deputies have received this list of minor amendments. Apparently they are all commas. The list is as follows:

leath 8 line 23: an chamóg i ndiaidh "dissolved" a bhaint amach.

leath 12 line 28: an chamóg i ndiaidh "fit" a bhaint amach.

leath 16 line 25: an chamóg i ndiaidh "Minister" a bhaint amach.

leath 16 line 29: camóg a chur isteach i ndiaidh "Minister" agus an chamóg a bhaint amach i ndiaidh "motion".

leath 25 line 21: an chamóg i ndiaidh "ina leith" a bhaint amach.

leath 27 line 13: camóg a chur isteach i ndiaidh "ann".

leath 29 line 15: an chamóg i ndiaidh "Faoi réir mhír 5(2)" a bhaint amach.

leath 30 line 19: an chamóg i ndiaidh "guarantee" a bhaint amach.

leath 31 line 22: an chamóg i ndiaidh "ráthaíocht" a bhaint amach.

Aontaíodh go dtógfaí an Chéim Dheiridh inniu.

Agreed to take Final Stage today.

Cuireadh agus aontaíodh an cheist: Go rithfear an Bille anois.

Question: "That the Bill do now pass", put and agreed to.