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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 9 May 1979

Vol. 314 No. 2

Health (Family Planning) Bill, 1978: Financial Resolution.

I move:

That it is expedient to make provision for the charging of such fees as may be specified in regulations made by the Minister for Health with the consent of the Minister for Finance under any Act of the present session to make provision for family planning services and, with a view to ensuring that contraceptives are available only for the purpose, bona fide, of family planning or for adequate medical reasons, to regulate and control the sale, importation, manufacture, advertisement and display of contraceptives and to provide for certain other matters.

I oppose this motion and I wish to state my reasons for doing so. We are opposed to money being spent through this Bill because we believe that the Bill in the form in which it is now emerging will not reflect the will of the Oireachtas and that it would be improper to spend money on it——

I should like to point out that if you are opposing the Financial Resolution the discussion will have to be related to the matters which are affected by the Financial Resolution, namely, the payment of fees under section 5 (2) and the importation of contraceptives and under section 6 (2), authorising the manufacture of contraceptives. Any debate on the Financial Resolution will have to be confined strictly to these matters.

We are opposing this Financial Resolution because we think it is improper that money should be spent under a Bill which will not reflect the will of the Oireachtas because of the method of its introduction and its proposed passage through the House. It is clear that this is a Bill which was introduced in one form by the Government under a Whips' vote, and having been brought through on that basis we will be debating it in Committee on a free vote basis. At best this is constitutionally anomalous and it is certainly an improper procedure as far as the House is concerned. We do not accept that money should be spent in these circumstances. We are entitled to oppose the Financial Resolution and to state our reasons for so doing. In our view, if there had been a free vote a different Bill would have come through this House and it would have represented the will of this House. The Bill we now have does not reflect the will of this House. The effect of the procedure adopted by the Government has been, therefore, to vitiate any possibility of the will of this House being achieved. It is improper that money should be spent on something that does not reflect the will of the Oireachtas.

I accept that I cannot proceed to elaborate these points further at this time. I would wish to do so and feel that the rules of the House are inadequate in that they make no provision for what is admittedly an unprecedented event, changing the character of a Bill at this point. I had hoped it would have been possible, because of the unprecedented nature of the situation, for me to develop the matter further. I defer to the Chair's ruling, however, and reluctantly will give my reasons outside the House that I would have wished to give more fully in the House. I do not wish to be out of order and, therefore, have no alternative but to develop the points I want to make in another place. It is a pity——

I am grateful to the Deputy for acceding to the ruling of the Chair.

——not to be able to explain the position in the Dáil as one ought to be able to do. The unprecedented situation we have now is one to which further consideration. should be given. Now that it has arisen, the Standing Orders should permit of a further consideration of the matter when the whole basis of a Bill is changed from one of active collective responsibility by the Government to one of a free vote.

I am grateful to the Deputy for acceding to the ruling of the Chair but the Deputy will appreciate that Second Reading would have been the time to make these points.

I appreciate that but, as the Bill has changed its character since the Second Reading by virtue of the Government decision to abandon the original basis of it, bringing it in by a whip majority as a matter of collective responsibility and it is now a matter of a free vote, I could not raise it on Second Stage because no one, including the Taoiseach, knew it would be a free vote at that stage. He was not aware of the nature and kind of pressure about to be exerted on him by the Minister for Agriculture.

We are opposing this resolution for the reason that so much is coming to the Dáil by way of resolution that we do not know exactly what is in the Minister's mind. We oppose it because we do not know what the money is being spent on or for what purpose. The Minister will agree that in the last two years more and more has been coming by way of regulation that we do not know enough about.

Deputy O'Connell will have an opportunity on Committee Stage to discuss this. The Chair is not ruling out debate that may arise on the appropriate sections.

In reply to the point made by Deputy FitzGerald, leader of the Fine Gael Party, this is the same Bill as was approved in principle by the House on Second Stage. There is no change in the Bill. As Deputies know, this is a very normal parliamentary procedure. It is simply a technically to give effect to whatever financial provisions are involved in the legislation. As regards the question raised by Deputy O'Connell about the regulations, we can discuss that in some detail as we come to the sections which give authority to make the regulations.

If it is normal procedure would the Minister like to say when Fianna Fáil last had a free vote on a measure?

That does not change the Bill.

It changes the whole constitutional basis of the Bill.

Deputy FitzGerald's main point was that this is not the Bill which the House passed on Second Stage. It has not been changed one comma since the House approved it on Second Stage.

The Minister misunderstood me. This is not the Bill that would have passed on Second Stage had the basis of voting at the later Stages been used on Second Stage. That was my point.

This is a Government measure put by me before the House on behalf of the Government.

On a whip basis and not on a free vote.

Question put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 58; Níl, 30.

  • Ahern, Kit.
  • Andrews, Niall.
  • Aylward, Liam.
  • Barrett, Sylvester.
  • Brady, Gerard.
  • Brady, Vincent.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Browne, Seán.
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Callanan, John.
  • Calleary, Seán.
  • Colley, George.
  • Conaghan, Hugh.
  • Cowen, Bernard.
  • Cronin, Jerry.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • de Valera, Síle.
  • de Valera, Vivion.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • Farrell, Joe.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Filgate, Eddie.
  • Fitzgerald, Gene.
  • Fitzpatrick, Tom. (Dublin South-Central).
  • Fitzsimons, James N.
  • Flynn, Pádraig.
  • Fox, Christopher J.
  • French, Seán.
  • Gallagher, Dennis.
  • Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
  • Haughey, Charles J.
  • Hussey, Thomas.
  • Kenneally, William.
  • Killeen, Tim.
  • Killilea, Mark.
  • Lalor, Patrick J.
  • Lemass, Eileen.
  • Leonard, Tom.
  • Leyden, Terry.
  • Lynch, Jack.
  • McCreevy, Charlie.
  • McEllistrim, Thomas.
  • MacSharry, Ray.
  • Moore, Seán.
  • Morley, P.J.
  • Murphy, Ciarán P.
  • Noonan, Michael.
  • O'Connor, Timothy C.
  • O'Donoghue, Martin.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • O'Kennedy, Michael.
  • O'Malley, Desmond.
  • Reynolds, Albert.
  • Smith, Michael.
  • Tunney, Jim.
  • Walsh, Seán.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Wyse, Pearse.

Níl

  • Barry, Peter.
  • Barry, Richard.
  • Begley, Michael.
  • Bruton, John.
  • Burke, Joan.
  • Clinton, Mark.
  • Cosgrave, Liam.
  • D'Arcy, Michael J.
  • Deasy, Martin A.
  • Donnellan, John F.
  • FitzGerald, Garret.
  • Griffin, Brendan.
  • Harte, Patrick D.
  • Horgan, John.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Belton, Luke.
  • Boland, John.
  • Browne, Noël.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • McMahon, Larry.
  • Mannion, John M.
  • Mitchell, Jim.
  • O'Brien, William.
  • O'Connell, John.
  • O'Keeffe, Jim.
  • O'Toole, Paddy.
  • Ryan, John J.
  • Ryan, Richie.
  • Taylor, Frank.
  • Tully, James.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies P. Lalor and Briscoe; Níl, Deputies McMahon and Horgan.
Question declared carried.
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