Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 29 May 1979

Vol. 314 No. 10

Adjournment Debate. - Phoenix Park Closure.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan-Monaghan): At Question Time today Deputy Belton asked a question regarding the speed of traffic passing through the Phoenix Park and suggested that steps should be taken to reduce the speed. Let me say at the outset that I, in common with almost everyone in the country, regard the Phoenix Park with pride. I pass through it several times a week and invariably feel admiration for those who planned the spacious, wide roads and especially those who planned the planting of the trees so far back on each side of the road. This must be one of the finest parks in Europe and nothing I say is intended to detract from this great national amenity.

I was rather alarmed to hear the Minister of State say in reply to a supplementary question that it is proposed to close the Phoenix Park to through traffic from dusk or 7 p.m., whichever is the later. This would mean that the park would be closed to through traffic at 7 p.m. during the winter months and at later times during the summer. This is a great shock to me, as it will be to the great many people from the northern side of the city who have been using this park as a thoroughfare into the city.

It was not quite clear from the Minister's reply whether he or somebody else has made an order or by-law implementing this change. I gathered that this was not the fact. It seems probable that a working party consisting of representatives of the local authority, the Garda, the Department of the Environment and the Office of Public Works have reported on the matter and have recommended that the park be closed as I have stated but that by-laws have not yet been altered to bring the change into law. If I am wrong in this assumption, perhaps the Minister would correct me.

I protest about this suggestion. The Phoenix Park is not open to what I would call commercial traffic but is open to private vehicles. This has been the case for as long as I have been coming to Dublin. Many years ago there was, as there is now, a gate at the Castleknock end of the main road and also a gate at the Parkgate Street end. The latter gate was removed many years ago and since then the park has been completely open at that point. The right of people travelling from Donegal, Northern Ireland, parts of the west, my own constituency and Meath to pass through the park has never been abused. The Minister has said that there is a 40 mile speed limit which is obeyed and that prosecutions are brought if the limit is not observed. I want to know why it is proposed to close the park at 7 p.m. or dusk, imposing great inconvenience on people from the north coming into or going out of the city. This proposed closure will add further to their journey and will also cause a considerable addition to the volume of traffic on roads already overcrowded. I refer especially to the route through Phibsboro', by the Mater Hospital and into O'Connell Street. People travelling towards the south also avail of this road through the park, thus relieving other roads and the centre of the city of additional traffic.

I do not believe there was an opportunity to make representations to the working party. I am sure the general public were not aware of any such opportunity. Strong representations would have been made in favour of leaving the park as it is and the roads available to motorists who wanted to use them. It is rather difficult to see the sense in closing the park to through traffic at dusk. If the object is the safety of people who use the park as a park, it must be said that they are not likely to be there after dusk. The park is clear of ordinary users when dusk comes. If there were to be any change, it might be safer to leave the park open at this time. If a case were made for the protection of the deer, I could understand it. It does not make sense that the park should be open to the general public during the day but closed to vehicular traffic at night.

The Minister of State is probably at a disadvantage because his colleague, the Minister of State at the Department of Finance, would ordinarly deal with this matter. I would suggest that he should rethink this matter and should not give his authority to the implementation of by-laws, if these are necessary to put into effect this proposal. If he persists, he should hold an inquiry and give people an opportunity of expressing their views. They have been using this through road for as long as they can remember and records will show how long that is. This proposal does not make sense and will cause a great deal of inconvenience. I strongly urge the Minister not to pursue it.

Mr. Bruton

According to the statement today the recommendations are the closing of the park to through traffic at dusk or 7 p.m., whichever is the later, the provision of roundabouts rather than traffic lights, additional speed limit signs and the closing of internal park roads.

I further pressed him in the matter by asking the Minister if he was proposing to accept the recommendation that the Phoenix Park be closed to traffic at 7 p.m. and if he was aware that this would cause considerable inconvenience to people from west County Dublin and County Meath coming to Dublin and would lead to greatly increased traffic on other routes. The Minister replied that that is what was recommended in the report. I asked him if he proposed to accept this. The Minister replied that he had accepted it and approved it.

I would like to deal with what the Minister said. It is clear from what the Minister said that the recommendation was that no through traffic should be allowed any more. Presumably people may enter the park but they will not be able to get out because that is what through traffic means. That presumably means that all the gates will be shut at 7 o'clock or at dusk and that the only entrance to the main road would be one at Parkgate Street because there is no gate there.

I would like to have it clarified that that is what is meant. If in fact it is proposed to leave two gates open then it is possible for there to be through traffic and what the Minister has said does not apply. This should be clarified. What exactly is meant by through traffic? In my view the only way that what the Minister is saying could be enforced would be if all the gates were closed and it was only possible to get into the park by one gate and go back out by that same gate and no other. That seems to be what the Minister is saying in his statement and in what he said when pressed by me for further information.

I note also that roundabouts are to be provided instead of traffic lights. The traffic lights, to my knowledge, are all at the gates of the Phoenix Park. The only way the traffic lights could be replaced by roundabouts would be by knocking down the gates and putting roundabouts at the traffic lights which are at the gates. One could not have a roundabout at the gates which are only the width of one vehicle at present so I cannot see how that is going to be enforced other than by knocking down the gates. But if the gates are knocked down the Phoenix Park would not be closed to through traffic. The recommendation seems to be riddled with contradictions.

The Minister then said that there will be additional speed limits. I want to make it clear that I have no objection to that. But he says that internal park roads will be closed. This is not related to dusk or 7 o'clock so presumably internal park roads are going to be closed all the time. I would like to know what internal park roads are going to be closed and how they are going to be closed and to whom they are going to be closed. Does it mean that certain roads in the park which are now open to vehicles are going to be pedestrianised permanently? I do not think that would be a good idea at all because it would only lead to crowding on the remaining roads which are not pedestrianised and to cars parking at one place because people would not be able to get to their destination in their cars which would mean that instead of being able to park at random throughout the park people would have to park in the one place and would probably end up parking on the grass verge which is something we do not want.

The idea of closing the park to through traffic is so ridiculous that I find it hard to believe that the Minister could really have meant what he said. I hope that he did not mean what he said and that he misread the recommendations in the report and that what he told the House was not fully accurate. I await his reply. I do not think I need to labour the point. If the park was closed to through traffic it would mean that people from Castleknock or Dunboyne and other areas who went to pick up somebody from the train at Kingsbridge would have to go around by Chapelizod or around by the Navan Road and down Infirmary Road instead of going the obvious way which is straight through the Phoenix Park; it is the sensible way to go and it does not interfere with anyone.

I know there have been a few animals killed at night but this is not so frequent an occurrence that we need to adopt this sort of stringent solution. Through traffic of that sort is a sensible thing. Perhaps one way we could avoid such accidents happening is to ensure that the main road is better lit. I understand that at present the lighting there is all gas lighting; it is one of those antique forms of lighting that are only being used in the Phoenix Park and nowhere else. It may have been good enough for our Victorian ancestors who tended to move at a slower pace. We may well be returning to the Victorian speed of movement by virtue of factors of another character in relation to oil supplies but at the moment and for the foreseeable future people will still be using motor cars and the level of light provided by gas lights is not sufficient and one of the reasons why these accidents have been taking place is that the lighting is not good enough. I agree that those gas light standards are very attractive and I would not like to see them knocked down and I would not like to see gas lights done away with completely but perhaps we could supplement the gas lights with other lighting to improve the lighting in the park. The Board of Works should bend their views to this rather than preventing people getting through the park at all at night if it is shown that lack of lighting is the problem. If it is not lack of lighting that is the problem we should be told what is the problem.

I will sit down now because I would like the Minister to have an ample opportunity to explain exactly what he intends in full detail. It would be a good thing because people should not have this sort of thing sprung on them—they are told that this decision was made last week and the first they hear about it is now—because it creates a certain amount of apprehension. The facts and the recommendations should be made known. I would suggest to the Minister that the working party report on which all these recommendations were based be published. I hope the Minister will be able to announce this evening that this report will be published and if it is a lot of the problems and the misapprehensions which might have arisen will be allayed once and for all.

Minister of State at the Department of the Public Service (Mr. MacSharry) (for the Minister for Finance)

The Deputies opposite seem to think that I was rather confused today because I am standing in for Minister of State, Mr. Wyse. I want to say clearly and categorically that all I said is the facts as they are known to the people concerned. The only omission from the record of today's debate was the statement I made during interruptions to the effect that the Cabra Road gate would be left open. In regard to all the rest I am not going to repeat what I have already said because I do not think it is necessary to do so.

Mr. Bruton

Where is the Cabra Road gate?

Mr. MacSharry

Will the Deputy allow me to conclude?

Mr. Bruton

Then there could be through traffic.

Mr. MacSharry

I told the House most of it today and there was no doubt about what I was telling the House. In recent times there have been four parliamentary questions and representations from numerous Deputies and members of the public regarding the speed and volume of traffic through the park. The matter has been raised on numerous occasions by many Deputies in the debate on the Vote for the Office of Public Works. One example of the reasons behind these proposals is that 22 serious accidents were reported during 1973 to 1977 and seven of those occurred during the hours of darkness; injuries to animals, deer and cattle, occur mainly at night. The management and control of the Phoenix Park is vested in the Commissioners of Public Works under section 2 of the Phoenix Park Act, 1925. Under section 3 of the same Act the commissioners are required to maintain the park as a public park for the general purpose of the recreation and enjoyment of the public.

The present position regarding the closure of gates in the Phoenix Park is that there are nine entrances to the Phoenix Park and all but two are closed to vehicular traffic at 11 o'clock each night. The main entrance at Parkgate Street, which does not have a gate, and the Castleknock gate are open to vehicular traffic at all times. What is proposed is that the main entrance and the Cabra gate will be open at all times and the remaining gates will be closed at dusk or 7 p.m., whichever is the later. That should allow for peak hour use of the park by commuter traffic. We have still to determine exactly what time "dusk" shall be.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan-Monaghan): Where is the Cabra gate?

Mr. MacSharry

At Cabra.

Mr. Bruton

Is that the gate at the Hole in the Wall?

Mr. MacSharry

That is correct.

Mr. Bruton

It is most objectional to close the Castleknock gate.

Mr. MacSharry

It will be closed from dusk to 7 a.m. Roundabouts will be erected at the three intersections on the main road and additional speed limit signs will be erected. The road I refer to is the Furze Road, the link towards Lucan. That does not interfere with traffic because there is another way towards the Lucan gate. The Furze Road is in an area which is used extensively by the deer but its closure will not cause any inconvenience to traffic.

The points made by the Deputies do not stand up because there will not be great inconvenience. Deputy Fitzpatrick pointed out that the park would be clear of ordinary traffic by dusk and I agree. For that reason the inconvenience he spoke of does not arise.

Mr. Bruton

I would not be able to go home by that route tonight if those gates were closed.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan-Monaghan): I was concerned about the people who regard the park as an amenity. I do not think it will be cleared of through traffic at the time the Minister has stated.

Mr. MacSharry

By dusk it should be cleared of the main traffic. The working party were satisfied that the roads in the surrounding areas would be capable of taking the traffic that would normally go through the park at that hour. The commissioners may make by-laws for various purposes including the following: regulating and controlling the use and enjoyment of the park by the public, prescribing the times during which the park should be open to the public and prescribing the purposes for which the park may be used. The making of by-laws requires the approval of the Minister for Finance and when made they must be laid before each House of the Oireachtas. If either House within 21 days on which that House sits after the by-law is laid before it passes a resolution annulling such by-law that by-law shall be annulled accordingly.

The existing proposal and arrangement shall come into effect by the amendment of by-law No. 3.

I do not think the Deputies need be concerned about inconvenience. At present seven of the nine gates are closed and we are proposing to try to eliminate the number of accidents at night and the damage that is caused to livestock and deer. We do not foresee any great inconvenience. The matter will be before the House when the amendment to the by-law is made.

Mr. T.J. Fitzpatrick

(Cavan-Monaghan): It is absolutely absurd.

Mr. Bruton

A very bad decision.

The Dáil adjourned at 9 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 30 May 1979.