asked the Taoiseach if the British Prime Minister, Mrs. Thatcher, and her advisers officially sought hot pursuit facilities from Northern Ireland into the Irish Republic.
4.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Taoiseach-British Prime Minister Meeting.
3.
asked the Taoiseach the outcome of his discussions with the British Prime Minister concerning the security situation arising out of the assassination of Lord Mountbatten and members of his boating party in County Sligo on 27 August 1979 and if he will make a statement on the matter.
5.
asked the Taoiseach if it is his intention to furnish a report to the House on his recent meeting with the British Prime Minister, Mrs. Thatcher.
6.
asked the Taoiseach the agreement, if any, for a political initiative in the Six Counties reached at his meeting in London with the British Prime Minister on September 5 last.
7.
asked the Taoiseach if he will make a statement on his discussions with the British Prime Minister and subsequent discussions in London in which the Ministers for Foreign Affairs and Justice participated.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 to 7, inclusive, together.
As Deputies will be aware, these meetings took place against the background of the horrific events of 27 August which resulted in the death of Earl Mountbatten of Burma and three other members of his boating party together with the deaths of 18 members of the British Army at Warrenpoint and a civilian who was shot dead south of the Border. The massive sense of revulsion which these deeds have generated has been well articulated by Government, Opposition and religious leaders, by representatives of various groups in our society and by the media. I have already stated publicly that the Provisional IRA were relentlessly and insidiously proving to be the real enemies of Ireland. I think it is fair comment to say that the feeling of revulsion among Irish people generally at this recent spate of murders cannot be exaggerated.
When I met the British Prime Minister on 10 May last we had a brief discussion on Northern Ireland and agreed that a further meeting would be held to discuss matters of common interest. Pursuant to this, I had inquiries made in London on 26 August about a meeting in Dublin this month. In the event, I received an invitation to attend the funeral of Earl Mountbatten and subsequently the Prime Minister contacted me, asking if I would take advantage of the occasion to meet her afterwards. I accepted this invitation and, accompanied by the Tánaiste and the Minister for Foreign Affairs, met the Prime Minister, who, in turn, was accompanied by the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the Lord Privy Seal, in Downing Street, on 5 September. Our meeting covered Northern Ireland and European Community issues.
As indicated in the joint communique, the Prime Minister and I were both agreed that the existing extensive co-operation between the authorities in our two countries must be improved to the fullest possible extent to stamp out terrorism. A number of suggestions in this context were put forward by both sides and progress in the development of these proposals was reviewed at the ministerial meeting on 5 October. It was decided by both Governments that it was in the public interest that details of these security measures would not be made public. For that reason it is not possible for me to give any information in this regard additional to that conveyed in the communiques. I can say, however, that the question of so-called "hot pursuit" was not raised at these meetings.
On the political front, the Prime Minister and I exchanged views about the prospect for political movement in Northern Ireland. Both at that meeting and the ministerial meeting on 5 October the importance of an early initiative leading to acceptable political institutions which both sections of the community in Northern Ireland could support and sustain was stressed by the Irish side. The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland indicated that he was engaged in private talks with the Northern Ireland political parties and that he hoped before long to be in a position to bring forward positive proposals. We, for our part, indicated that provided the object of the British Government was to get back to a situation in which the political leaders could work together in the Government of the area we would support the endeavours of the Secretary of State.
The current state of North/South economic co-operation was also discussed at the ministerial meeting and both sides expressed their agreement to continue such co-operation. A number of Community matters which are likely to be on the agenda of the forthcoming European Council meeting in Dublin were also discussed at the meeting on 5 September. These included Britain's contribution to the Community budget, convergence of the economies of the Community in a wider context, energy matters and the question of possible British membership of the European Monetary System.
In conclusion it was agreed at both meetings that our respective Governments should maintain regular contact at all levels to review developments.
I am arranging to have a copy of the joint communiques issued after the meetings laid before the House.
Is it the Taoiseach's intention to make a formal statement to the House on which the spokesmen for the Opposition would have an opportunity to comment?
I have just conformed with the request contained in the questions from both Opposition parties to make a statement. I have made a very full statement on these meetings. Deputy Cluskey now wishes me to make another statement.
I asked the Taoiseach if it was his intention to make a formal statement to the House, where time would be set aside for a spokesman from each of the Opposition parties to reply or comment.
I have conformed with the Deputy's request and I think that is sufficient.
I do not think it is sufficient. I am asking the Taoiseach now if it is his intention to afford us that opportunity.
No, sir. I made a statement and I do not think I should make it twice.
It must have been very difficult at the parliamentary party meeting when the Taoiseach is afraid to face the House.
Is the Taoiseach prepared to give the House any details of any arrangements that have been made in relation to security matters, recognising that there are aspects of these which there may be reasons not to disclose?
We agreed, both at the meeting at which Heads of Government were present and at the subsequent meeting, that neither the proposals that were made nor any agreement made on these proposals would be published in the interests of security. Therefore, I do not propose to give the House any details of what was agreed.
While recognising on the one hand the reasons for that but, on the other hand, the fact that some concern has been expressed about the uncertainty that exists concerning these measures, would the Taoiseach consider this an appropriate matter for consultation with the leaders of the parties?
I do not think it would be appropriate for consultation but, on a strictly confidential basis, I would not object to making the details known to the leaders of both parties but this would be on a strictly confidential basis.
May I ask the Taoiseach whether in any of his considerations and discussions considerable thought has been given to people affected by the Border other than the two communities——
The Deputy has difficulty in hearing me but I have equal difficulty in hearing the Deputy. Perhaps he would raise his voice.
I was about to say to the Taoiseach it was not his fault. It is this crazy outfit we have here that does not work properly.
What crazy outfit?
All of you should be very happy over there, according to the leader of the Opposition. He is claiming all of you at the moment from what I heard him say on the radio yesterday, but that is only by the way. Will the Taoiseach state if consideration is and will be given to the concern, the interests and the impact on the people along the Border counties, south of the Border, in addition to the difficulties of the two communities within the Six Counties? Secondly, arising from the Taoiseach's reply to several questions he answered just now, it appears that the agreement reached between him and the British Prime Minister had to do with two things mainly; one was seeking some sort of agreed government in the Six Counties—although it will never be a government—and the second was an agreement to stamp out terrorism. Will the Taoiseach state if that is the sum and substance of what has taken place and will he also state whether the rumours that have been much peddled in the media regarding an air corridor come into part of this? Will he also state if aiding and assisting the occupiers of one's country is collaboration in its worst form? It is costing us £1,500,000 per day which we could usefully use elsewhere. If we are to co-operate with the British in security matters, to use the Taoiseach's words, at the cost of £1,500,000 per day, should we not send the bill to where it belongs? Let them pay for it.
That is a very long question.
There are four or five questions there.
If the Deputy were more precise I could answer him.
I did not hear the Taoiseach.
There was always difficulty between the Taoiseach and the Deputy.
The Taoiseach can take it for granted that the House gives him full support in any measures required in relation to security along the Border. In an effort to keep the House fully informed and on a confidential basis, would he give favourable consideration to consultation with the leaders of the two Opposition parties in regard to security?
Certainly not on that basis. I would inform them to the fullest possible extent. However, the Deputy will appreciate that security matters need to be kept secure; otherwise any measures to be taken would be completely negatived. In reply to Deputy Blaney, at one point he asked a question that I was able to identify as a question. He asked if I had any regard for the people living close to the Border on the southern side. Certainly I have and I always maintained that I had a high regard for them.
Within the context of all the talk about the two communities——
I am calling Question No. 8.