andMr. Deasy asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport the percentage by which the Government subsidy to CIE has increased since 1972 compared to the general increase in Government expenditure and the cost of living, and the approximate cost of CIE fares and charges if Government subsidisation had been maintained at its 1972 level in real terms.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - CIE Subsidies.
10.
The subvention paid to CIE in 1978 was £37.7 million compared to £8.3 million in 1972-73, that is, an increase of 354 per cent. I understand from the Central Statistics Office that total current expenditure by Central Government in the same period rose from £658 million to £2,509 million, an increase of 281 per cent, and that the consumer price index rose from 138.65 to 307.7, an increase of 122 per cent. It will be seen from these figures that the subvention to CIE has been increased to a much greater extent than the general level of Government spending or the general cost of living.
If the increase in the CIE subvention since 1972-73 had been restricted to the rate of increase in the consumer price index, the subvention in 1978 would have been £18.4 million, that is, £19.3 million less than the actual subvention paid. It is not possible to indicate precisely the extent to which CIE fares and rates would have increased in that event, because of the hypothetical and intangible considerations involved including the likelihood of consumer resistance and the fact that the level of business in the various CIE services would have been affected differently. It is clear, however, that if the subvention to CIE had been increased to a lesser extent, the levels of fares and rates would now be much higher then they are.
Is the Minister aware that when CIE were set up the then Fianna Fáil Government promised, to quote their words, a "more efficient and cheaper service"? Does the Minister envisage that the taxpayer will continue having to pay this huge increased subsidy every year or does he envisage at any time CIE paying for themselves?
What appears to be inferred both in the question asked and in the supplementary question is that the fares should be increased.
I said nothing like that. I said that Fianna Fáil promised a cheaper and more efficient service. I said nothing about increased fares. Does the Minister think that the taxpayer will have to continue paying this increased subsidy? Does he envisage that CIE will at any time pay for themselves? If the Government are so good at planning surely the Minister should be able to answer that question. Have they any plans for CIE?
I will repeat the reply I gave previously, which is that when I saw this question it was obvious to me that what was intended was that the fares should be increased and the subsidy reduced.
The Government have reduced the subsidy on fertilisers, lime, food and rates. There is nothing in that question about reducing subsidies. We want to find out what are the Government's plans, if any, for CIE.
I suggest that the Deputy might read the question again.