Vol. 316 No. 5
asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport the estimated cost of electrifying the Dublin suburban rail system from Howth to Bray, the length of time it is now estimated this work will take, the number of people currently involved in this work and the maximum number of people who will be employed.
13.
andMr. B. Desmond asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport if he will sanction the extension of the proposed electrification of the Howth-Bray railway line by CIE to the Greystones area in view of the major growth in population and the large commuter population in the area and if he would make a statement on the matter.
14.
asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport if he will now authorise the extension of the CIE electrification programme for the Dublin suburban line to take in the line from Howth Junction to Balbriggan and from Bray to Greystones in view of the rapid development of County Dublin as indicated in the recent census.
15.
asked the Minister for Tourism and Transport if proposals have been received from CIE regarding the erection of a new suburban rail system in Dublin.
With the permission of the Ceann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 12, 13, 14 and 15 together.
On 31 May 1979 I issued a statement announcing that the Government had decided on the electrification of the Dublin rail service from Howth to Bray at an estimated cost of £46 million. There are no proposals at this stage for the electrification of the line between Howth Junction and Balbriggan or between Bray and Greystones.
I understand from CIE that detailed design work on the Howth-Bray project is under way and that approximately 20 people are now engaged full-time in this work. Employment for about 280 persons will be provided during the course of implementation of the project and the expected completion date is the end of 1982.
As regards the possible extension of the existing suburban network, the Transport Consultative Commission which I established in September 1978 are giving priority consideration to urban road and rail passenger services and will no doubt take account of all such proposals including proposals for a rail rapid transit system for Dublin, prepared for CIE by a firm of consultants. I would expect that the commission's examination of these matters will include consideration of all relevant factors including the effects of population growth.
In view of the recent population returns for the area between Greystones and Bray, the massive growth of population in that area and the tremendous increase in commuter traffic between Greystones, Bray and Dublin would the Minister have a further look at the apparent rejection of the proposal to electrify the Bray to Greystones section? This seems to warrant a re-examination.
There is no suggestion of rejecting anything. The Government decided on what was put before them by CIE, the electrification of the Howth-Bray line. They came to a decision they would do this. In so far as the other areas mentioned in those questions are concerned the Deputy can take it that surburban rail services to the north of Howth and to the south of Bray and also the existing bus services along those particular routes will be dovetailed with the electrified rail system. I believe this will be a very considerable help.
Arising out of the Minister's answer to those four questions and out of his reference to a consultative commission, which I have heard him mention here before, how many members of that commission are engaged full-time on the commission's work?
That is a separate question.
I am trying to find out something about this commission.
The question relates specifically to a particular railway line.
I do not want to fall out with you over this but the Minister gave a reply in which he more or less shoved the entire weight of exercising a discretion and judgment in this matter on to a commission. I want to question him a bit about this commission. Have the commission got any full-time members or full-time staff?
I did not shove responsibility for anything on to a commission. The Government took a decision, which the Opposition had stated on numerous occasions would not be taken, on the electrification of the Howth-Bray line. With regard to this consultative commission I already stated on numerous occasions that they were considering the whole situation in relation to urban areas, particularly Dublin, and within their considerations would be the question of the other aspects in the report I have referred to.
It is one and a half years since that commission were established. I am trying to discover from the Minister how intensive is the consideration to which he referred. Are there any people on the commission who do nothing else except the work of the commission or are they all people from other Departments doing other things most of the time? How often do they meet?
We have had the usual exaggeration on the part of the Deputy. This commission were established in September 1978, which is not one and a half years ago.
Let us not chop straws. It is a year and a bit ago. How often have they met since then?
That is a separate question.
I have asked them to make a report to me as quickly as possible.
Could the Minister tell us how often that commission have met?
Deputy Quinn who asked one of the questions has been trying to get in for some time.
Are the commission doing any independent work of their own or are they simply sitting back doing nothing until some other——
Deputy Quinn.
Could I, with respect to the House and to Deputy Kelly, ask that the next time Deputy Kelly should put down the questions himself? As I have two questions down in my name, no disrespect to my colleague Deputy Kelly——
Will the Deputy stop himself coming in on my questions?
No, I will not.
With regard to Question No. 14 in my name, on which I did not get the sense of the reply, will the Minister authorise the extension of the CIE electrification scheme? I am aware they did not seek to have it extended to Balbriggan or Greystones. In view of the census figures, to which Deputy Desmond referred, will the Minister now authorise it or does he propose to authorise it? Has he asked the consultative commission to review this? I did not hear the full reply.
The position is, as I have already said in reply to a supplementary by Deputy Desmond, that CIE will now proceed with the electrification of the line from Howth to Bray. The rail services from Balbriggan and Greystones, and also the bus services which are running in those areas, will be integrated in this and I have no doubt will be able to deal with any extra passengers that are likely to need these services.
I take it that, effectively, the Minister is saying no. Concerning Question No. 12, I should like some supplementary information regarding the figures given. Did the Minister say that at maximum 280 people will be employed during the scheme?
That is right.
Would that number include the people involved in the construction of the electric rolling stock?
The figure relates to the employment content during the course of the completion of the project.
Presumably it would include the design, construction and completion of the rolling stock as well as the actual electrification itself.
I do not think so but if the Deputy wishes I shall let him have the information later.
It is a separate question.
It is not meant to be a separate question. It was implicit in the whole employment-creation dimension of this project that the people at the Inchicore works as much as the men on the line would be involved in the job creation that would result from this project. However, I should be glad if the Minister would arrange to let me have the information and also the details of where the rolling stock is to be constructed.
I shall do that.
In relation to Question No. 13, is the Minister aware that the current expenditure by Dublin County Council on the south-Dublin main arterial route is £1 million per mile? Having regard to such enormous expenditure on that dual-carriageway, is it not ludicrous that electrification of the rail system should cease at Bray especially when there will be a massive growth in commuter traffic coming on to that dual carriageway and which will have to use private cars to come from the major growth area of Greystones to Dublin and when CIE are using data that is based on the 1971 census which, consequently, is out of date?
The Deputy is arguing the case.
Perhaps the Minister would consent even to consult with CIE on the matter. I am sure they would give him another answer.
The estimated cost of this job is £46 million. That is a considerable amount but the Government have decided to proceed with this aspect of the project. I am confident that CIE will be able to integrate their services in such a way as to provide for the extra people coming from Greystones.
Whatever that may mean.
The CIE scheduled passenger services within the Greystones area and throughout that whole hinterland to the Dublin-Wicklow border are incapable of operating the kind of feeder service that is required.
There is a similar situation in the case of Swords and Balbriggan.
Are we to have a repeat of the Harcourt Street line situation? It is back to the days of Tod Andrews.
I am calling Question No. 16.
