asked the Minister for Industry, Commerce and Energy if he will detail the progress made to date towards the establishment of the public inquiry into the proposal for a nuclear power station at Carnsore and the fixing of its terms of reference, and, if in the event of inquiries taking place, the Government propose to consider themselves bound by the findings of the inquiry.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Nuclear Generating Station.
9.
The Deputy's question must be viewed in the context of the various processes involved in assessing the nuclear proposal. Last February I announced that the Government had taken a decision in relation to the further consideration of the proposed ESB nuclear generating station at Carnsore Point County Wexford. This decision was taken against the background that, as well as coal and indigenous resources, nuclear power is seen by many governments as one of the main alternatives to oil which ought to be considered to meet the growing energy needs of the world economy. The uncertainty about continuing supplies of imported oil in sufficient quantity reinforces the need to consider every realistic option. The sequence of events likely to enable the Government to review fully the ESB nuclear proposal will probably be as follows: first, the Government authorised the ESB to proceed with completion of the preparatory process of planning the project to the stage where they will have available complete draft specifications; secondly, the Government set up an inter-departmental committee, comprising representatives at senior level of relevant Government Departments. The committee's broad terms of reference are to assess in detail all relevant aspects of the ESB's nuclear proposal and to report to me. These terms of reference include an assessment from the environmental, energy and financial viewpoints and investigation of energy demand forecasts and alternative means of meeting this demand.
Thirdly, the Government propose to introduce special legislation dealing with the building of nuclear power stations in this country and providing, in particular, for the setting up of a special tribunal to hold a single comprehensive inquiry, in public, into all aspects of the ESB project; fourthly, it is intended that the report of the inter-departmental committee will be published in good time so that it will be available for consideration in the course of the hearings of the tribunal; fifthly, the tribunal's report will then be published; sixthly, the results of the various processes mentioned above will then be given careful consideration by the Government.
The inter-departmental committee have been meeting since March last. While it is my intention that the committee report to me as soon as possible, I appreciate that before doing so, they must await the outcome of the investigations into the incident in the Harrisburg Nuclear Plant, which may not be available until early in the new year.
While the terms of the proposed legislation have not yet been settled, it is intended that the proposed public inquiry will permit consideration of the environmental and planning aspects of the project presently covered by the Planning Acts and the Water Pollution Act and also such matters as health, economics, safety and security. The House will, of course, have an opportunity to debate fully the proposed legislation.
The holding of the public inquiry will ensure that those concerned will have an appropriate forum to express their views and opinions whatever they may be. Publishing of the reports of the inter-departmental committee and of the Tribunal, will, I hope, provide the public with an objective and accurate assessment of the issues involved.
I would like to thank the Minister of State for the very full reply which I look forward to reading. As he will appreciate, I may not have been able to catch all of it as it flew across the floor. I would just ask one or two questions. Proposed legislation was mentioned. Does the Minister envisage legislation for establishing this inquiry? Is it going to be an inquiry with a basis in new legislation?
Yes. There will have to be legislation setting up the tribunal because it is intended to have one single hearing for planning, water pollution and also such matters as health, economics, safety and security.
So Wexford County Council will be by-passed.
That is interesting news. I must not be taken as being remiss on this until I have had a chance to think about it. Is it envisaged that in relation to the inquiry there is going to be a special statutory provision in this individual context to replace the ordinary planning laws? Is it the case that the planning decision, and the decisions on the other aspects of the matter, are going to be made not by the planning authority but by this ad hoc statutory authority?
If I read the last part of the reply it will clarify matters for the Deputy:
While the terms of the proposed legislation have not yet been settled, it is intended that the proposed public inquiry will permit consideration of the environmental and planning aspects of the project presently covered by the Planning Acts and the Water Pollution Act and also such matters as health, economics, safety and security. The House will, of course, have an opportunity to debate fully the proposed legislation.
Would the Minister of State be a little more explicit as far as the holding of a public inquiry is concerned, particularly in view of the fact that the Minister said that he would not be bound by any recommendation or views arising from the inquiry? If the Minister were honest he should describe it purely as a seminar because that is all it is going to be. Would the Minister not have this issue decided by a referendum as was done in Austria and in other countries of Europe? I take it from the Minister's reply that the planning permission powers are to be taken from the Wexford County Council. Will the Minister say in what way, if any, the Wexford County Council will be involved because the people in south Wexford are the people who will be at risk and most concerned?
In relation to the first point raised by the Deputy, the Minister never said that he would not be bound. He said he would not be necessarily bound by all the findings in matters of detail. It was never said that the Government would not be bound by the findings of the tribunal. Obviously the Government will be setting up a tribunal and it would be inappropriate if the Government were to disregard the basic findings of the tribunal but there could be details and the Government would not necessarily be bound in those cases.
Will the Minister answer my point about planning permission?
So far as planning is concerned I have already indicated to the House the steps that will be taken in regard to the legislation for the tribunal. So far as the people of Wexford are concerned obviously their local authority will, like any other body, be entitled to make any points they want to, to the tribunal.
Surely they should have a special position.
Of course. As the local authority, they will have a special position.
They are the people who have to determine what roads will be needed.
Obviously they will have a special position but I could not outline it.
Would the Wexford County Council be represented on this tribunal?
These are all matters which will come up when the legislation comes before the House.
Would the Minister comment as to whether or not this is a dangerous precedent to establish, in that in the event of the Government wanting something they can at any time introduce legislation and, with their majority, decide that they are going to put something through the House?
That is not the situation at all. The complaint up to now has been that if there was only an oral hearing before a planning board this would not go into such matters as the safety, economics and security of the proposed plant in Carnsore. The Government have gone further than required. Seeing and agreeing to the legitimate points being made by those who have legitimate fears about the construction of a nuclear plant, the Government decided to have a full public inquiry into all aspects of the construction of the plant rather than merely the planning aspects and I have answered these points in this House on a number of occasions.
This inquiry is only being held as a result of pressure from members of Fianna Fáil.
(Interruptions.)
The inquiry is being set up because of the legitimate fears of people all over the country, regardless of their political opinion.
Is the legislation which the Minister has in mind going to be related solely to this single project or is it going to be a new feature of the planning landscape?
It is related only to this single project.
The Minister referred to economics as being part of the inquiry's brief. Does this mean that this inquiry will have personnel of adequate competence to assess the economic necessity or otherwise of this project as distinct from some other form of energy generation?
As I said in the original reply, one of the steps which the Government undertook was the setting up of the inter-departmental committee which is now in operation. It comprises representatives at senior level of all the relevant Departments. They are preparing a report which will be published in advance of the tribunal and they are examining all such matters so that sort of information will be available to the general public or any other concerned people.
Will the inquiry contain persons of competence adequate to assess the economic status of this project?
Obviously all assistance that the tribunal will require will be available to it.